Free Gift Of "Salvation: Do you Have It?"

[Adherent]

The journey of faith begins with understanding the good news, or the Gospel, which lies at the heart of the Christian faith. The term “Gospel” translates to “good news,” and to fully understand this message, it’s crucial to acknowledge the challenge humanity faces due to sin. In essence, sin is what separates us from God, originating from the fall in the Garden of Eden when mankind rebelled against God’s way. However, despite this separation, God’s love provided a path of reconciliation through His son, Jesus Christ.

“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23

“but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

How to Follow Jesus - Compel Church

Discover the Love and Forgiveness of God through Jesus Christ including a practical Prayer of Salvation guide.

compel.church

 

[Studyman]

"Salvation: The Qualifications​

A long time ago a man asked the question, “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30). First of all, God saves the following kind of people: “sinners” (Rom. 3:23), “ungodly” (Rom. 4:5), those “without strength” (Rom. 5:6), His “enemies” (Rom. 5:10).

There is so much wrong "biblically" with your use of these scriptures.

Acts 16: 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

What did Jesus tell them?

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matt. 6: 5 And when thou prayest, "thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are": for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Matt. 19: 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So then, according to "This Jesus", God saves the following kind of people. The repentant! Those who "Press toward the high Prize of perfection" which was in Christ Jesus! Those who don't follow the popular religious traditions and philosophies of the religions of this world! Those who "keep God's Commandments", those who don't "work iniquity".

Romans 3: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

So what now?
Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance "in well doing" seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Romans 4: 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth "on him" that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

And what does this "HE" say to do? I posted HIS Words, shall we not then become "Doers" of his Words, and not hearers only, deceiving our own selves?

Rom. 5: 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Now what? Do we continue to walk "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"? Or as Paul asked!!!
Rom. 6: 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom "ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom. 5: 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

All Israel was reconciled to God by the Blood of the Lamb. Yet many of them fell in the wilderness. Why was this? Was it not because they didn't "Walk in the instructions of their God" like Jesus walked? Are these stories not written for our examples, so that we don't make the same mistake they made?

Shall we not then listen to God's Inspired Word "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And "Take Heed" of the "many" who come in Christ's Name, who "say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you?" (Jer. 23:17)

 

[civic]

I understand, explaining is not your strong suit.

And understanding spiritual truth.

 

[TibiasDad]

There is so much wrong "biblically" with your use of these scriptures.



What did Jesus tell them?

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matt. 6: 5 And when thou prayest, "thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are": for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Matt. 19: 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So then, according to "This Jesus", God saves the following kind of people. The repentant! Those who "Press toward the high Prize of perfection" which was in Christ Jesus! Those who don't follow the popular religious traditions and philosophies of the religions of this world! Those who "keep God's Commandments", those who don't "work iniquity".

So what now?
Rom. 2: 7To them who by patient continuance "in well doing" seek forglory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8But unto themthat are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

And what does this "HE" say to do? I posted HIS Words, shall we not then become "Doers" of his Words, and not hearers only, deceiving our own selves?

Now what? Do we continue to walk "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"? Or as Paul asked!!!
Rom. 6: 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom "ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?



All Israel was reconciled to God by the Blood of the Lamb. Yet many of them fell in the wilderness. Why was this? Was it not because they didn't "Walk in the instructions of their God" like Jesus walked? Are these stories not written for our examples, so that we don't make the same mistake they made?

Shall we not then listen to God's Inspired Word "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And "Take Heed" of the "many" who come in Christ's Name, who "say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you?" (Jer. 23:17)

His scriptures and your scriptures are saying the same thing in different ways. I seriously doubt that he has any qualm with anything you’ve said, but I let him speak for himself.

I find no value is being contentious when these scriptures dovetail with each other’s meanings.


Doug

 

[Studyman]

His scriptures and your scriptures are saying the same thing in different ways. I seriously doubt that he has any qualm with anything you’ve said, but I let him speak for himself.

I find no value is being contentious when these scriptures dovetail with each other’s meanings.


Doug

You have your religious opinions, and you are free to express them. But I have heard from my youth that God saves the sinner, and that all men's "throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways, there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God, but God saves them anyway because "All men have sinned and come short of the Glory of God".

And to promote this falsehood, they quote Paul in single verses found in Romans 3, Rom. 4, and 5.

But this isn't Paul's message to the Romans or anyone else. Paul isn't describing the Church of God, AKA, "The Body of Christ" when he defines for me those Jews and Gentiles "who are still under sin". And Paul has already established before, or as he says in Romans 3, "Before Proved" who are "still under sin", both Jew and Gentile in Romans 2.

So the preacher who posted this OP, who "comes in Christ's Name" teaches this; "First of all, God saves the following kind of people: “sinners”, “ungodly”, those “without strength”, His “enemies”.

But this is simply a false teaching. God saves the "Repentant". Those who understand God's wrath against the ungodly. Those whose "Strength is the Lord". Those are not His enemies. Jesus Himself says to the "many" who call Him Lord, Lord and teach in His Name, that HE doesn't even know them if they are "Workers of Iniquity". That the hearers of His Saying, who don't become "Doers" of His Sayings, will fall, and great will be the fall. Paul agrees with Him when he answers the same question posed in Acts 16 when he "Before Proved" in Romans 2 who are saved and who are not.

This might offend you, and you may feel the need to defend the preaching in question, as "many" do. But there is no "dove tail" here. There is a popular religious philosophy promoted by "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, and there is what Paul actually teaches which doesn't even imply what is being attributed to his teaching here.

Shouldn't "someone" point these things out?

 

[TibiasDad]

So the preacher who posted this OP, who "comes in Christ's Name" teaches this; "First of all, God saves the following kind of people: “sinners”, “ungodly”, those “without strength”, His “enemies”.

But this is simply a false teaching. God saves the "Repentant".

God saves all sinners, everyone who is ungodly, etc, who repent and turn from their wicked ways and follow after Christ! Repentance is the fruit of true belief, and loving as Jesus loved us is the result of turning from our old ways of living.

You can’t have one without the other. They dovetail perfectly, or to use another analogy, they have a tongue in groove relationship. The strength of the whole is in their connection with each other.


Doug

 

[Studyman]

God saves all sinners, everyone who is ungodly, etc, who repent and turn from their wicked ways and follow after Christ! Repentance is the fruit of true belief, and loving as Jesus loved us is the result of turning from our old ways of living.

You can’t have one without the other. They dovetail perfectly, or to use another analogy, they have a tongue in groove relationship. The strength of the whole is in their connection with each other.

Doug

Here is what the OP preaches.

Salvation​

"It does not cost the sinner anything. It is free. You can’t earn salvation by being good, and you cannot lose salvation by being bad. God does not require any works from a sinner. Good works do not make it easier, and bad works do not make it harder to get saved. It is FREE, FREE, FREE! God justifies the sinner freely. Justification is the act whereby God declares a person righteous, even though that person in himself is not righteous."

I posted what Paul teaches.

Even a child can see the difference.

 

[TibiasDad]

Here is what the OP preaches.

Salvation​

"It does not cost the sinner anything. It is free. You can’t earn salvation by being good, and you cannot lose salvation by being bad. God does not require any works from a sinner. Good works do not make it easier, and bad works do not make it harder to get saved. It is FREE, FREE, FREE! God justifies the sinner freely. Justification is the act whereby God declares a person righteous, even though that person in himself is not righteous."

I posted what Paul teaches.

Even a child can see the difference.

I would not agree with his “you cannot lose salvation by being bad”. But the a sinner is never saved because of earning it by what he does.

His statement is poorly worded and makes our behavior irrelevant, especially if its implications are carried into the believer’s life. God does require certain types of behavior, for his salvation makes such behavior possible for the first time. Thus, James’s edict to be doers of the word, not only hearers.

Paul says that “the righteous requirements of the law” can be “fully met in us…who live after the Spirit”. (Rom 8:4) Paul goes on to say in Romans 8, “12Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

None of this in my humble opinion denies anything I’ve said about the dovetailing of the two sets of scripture in question. But I do acknowledge that I have issues with some of his thinking.

Doug

 

[Studyman]

I would not agree with his “you cannot lose salvation by being bad”. But the a sinner is never saved because of earning it by what he does.

I know what the popular teaching is. But I also know what Paul and Jesus actually say, when "ALL" their words are considered.


Rom. 2: 6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

As Jesus Himself teaches. "Well done, good and faithful servant".

His statement is poorly worded and makes our behavior irrelevant, especially if its implications are carried into the believer’s life. God does require certain types of behavior, for his salvation makes such behavior possible for the first time. Thus, James’s edict to be doers of the word, not only hearers.

Yes, but the point is, "his words" are promoted by this world's religions every Sunday and have since Constantine. I posted the Scriptures which make this distinction.

Paul says that “the righteous requirements of the law” can be “fully met in us…who live after the Spirit”.

Yes, but I think he means, "The Spirit "of God", Yes? And the Words of God "Are Spirit", Yes? And God's Law is also Spirit, is this not true? So then, Jesus "Walked in the Spirit" of God, not in the Flesh "of man", Yes? Therefore, If a man walks in the Spirit "of God", there is no more condemnation, as there was when the same man "in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

(Rom 8:4) Paul goes on to say in Romans 8, “12Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Yes, this is because we are created by the One True God, Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

None of this in my humble opinion denies anything I’ve said about the dovetailing of the two sets of scripture in question. But I do acknowledge that I have issues with some of his thinking.

There is no "Two sets of Scriptures in question". Please read the post, and address the actual post. There is one popular religious philosophy being promoted here that omits much of Paul's words in Romans and elsewhere and another post pointing this omission out.

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes, but I think he means, "The Spirit "of God", Yes?

Live by the Holy Spirit, yes.

Yes, this is because we are created by the One True God, Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

Because he created us in his image, we are intended to act as he would act. Post-conversion, we are capable of doing what we are supposed to be doing; if capable, then we are obligated to do so.


Doug

 

[Studyman]

Live by the Holy Spirit, yes.

Because he created us in his image, we are intended to act as he would act.

Would God create an image of Himself after the likeness of some random, handsome men's hair shampoo model and distribute it all over the world? Of course not. Would God create dozens of different religious businesses who promote different philosophies and high days and religious traditions, all in His Name or the Name of His Son? Of course not. Would God kill and eat a dog, or a slug, or a pig? Of course not. Would God put on a TV show where paid actors are pretending to be healed by men who "Transform themselves" into apostle of Christ? Of course not.

Did His Son Jesus, or any example of the Body of Christ ever engage in any of these popular religious activities of this world in any of the Scriptures which prophesied about Him and the life of any faithful man on earth? They never did any of these things, not even once.

You are a smart guy TD. You know the God of the Bible has never and would never sanction any of these behaviors. Yet you and the author of this OP promote and defend them, as I did years ago.

Instead of seeking justification for ourselves or the particular religious business or sect we have adopted, (Calvinism, Arminianism, Catholicism, Baptists, Adventists, JW's, LDS, etc., etc.) shouldn't we seek God's Kingdom and "HIS" Righteousness? Even if it causes division within our circle of family and friends who have adopted these religions and their philosophies? What man of Faith in Jesus Time didn't have to "Come out" of a religion to serve the Living God? Was Abraham not also required to leave the religion of his father? Was Paul? Was Peter?

Seek God's Righteousness, not justification of our own righteousness. That is what the Scriptures teach, in my view.

Post-conversion, we are capable of doing what we are supposed to be doing; if capable, then we are obligated to do so.

Yes, then why don't men "DO" what God has instructed them to "DO"? Is it not because they don't really believe Him? And choose instead to believe the religions who "say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you."

Why is this important? "because we are created by the One True God, Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":"

Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[TibiasDad]

Would God create an image of Himself after the likeness of some random, handsome men's hair shampoo model and distribute it all over the world?

Not sure who you mean, but God often used evil men to accomplish his purposes.

Of course not. Would God create dozens of different religious businesses who promote different philosophies and high days and religious traditions, all in His Name or the Name of His Son? Of course not.

He created Judaism with all of its high days and religious traditions. Then he sent Jesus, who rather upset the apple cart, and through his disciples changed the rules and traditions that God previously established.

I’m sure you have your own set of “traditions” that you feel are in keeping with scripture.

Would God kill and eat a dog, or a slug, or a pig? Of course not.

“Don’t call unclean what I have called clean.”

Would God put on a TV show where paid actors are pretending to be healed by men who "Transform themselves" into apostle of Christ? Of course not.

He used a fish with money its mouth; if television had been an option I think he would have, after all, he waited until the Romans has established their vast road systems to be able to send the disciples to the “ends of the earth”.

Did His Son Jesus, or any example of the Body of Christ ever engage in any of these popular religious activities of this world in any of the Scriptures which prophesied about Him and the life of any faithful man on earth? They never did any of these things, not even once.

Do you think Jesus would have used electricity to tell his message if it had been available. You’re using technology that Jesus never used! Why are you allowed to use modern means of communication and others aren’t. If you were faithful to the tenets that you propose, you wouldn’t be on this site, because not once did “Jesus, or any example of the Body of Christ ever engage in any of these popular religious activities of this world in any of the Scriptures which prophesied about Him.”

Instead of seeking justification for ourselves or the particular religious business or sect we have adopted,

Who is doing that, besides yourself? You seem to think that the whole of modern Christianity, save for yourself, are spiritual apostates. I’m not saying there aren’t problems in the various facets of the church today. But I find your approach here naive and self-lauding.

Yes, then why don't men "DO" what God has instructed them to "DO"? Is it not because they don't really believe Him?

What you are really asking is why don’t they do what you think they should do? We all have different opinions on the interpretation of the scriptures at various points. Sometimes, certain points are more impactful than others-such as your reliance on Romans 2- and they cause us to create “traditions” around them. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Scripture is clear that the ultimate proof of a true disciple is how they love other people, both their brothers, and those with whom they are enemies. (John 13:35)

There is room in orthodoxy for a wide range of points of view and the pragmatic “traditions” that are created from them.
This said, your lumping orthodox churches in with JWs and the Mormons is further evidence of your own extreme views and biases, shrinking orthodoxy to an incredibly small diameter of seemingly one.

None of the things listed in your diatribe are scriptural or theological issues, and boil down to personal vendettas of your own perception, and they are far removed from the scriptural argument raised in the OP.


Doug

 

[Studyman]

Not sure who you mean, but God often used evil men to accomplish his purposes.

He created Judaism with all of its high days and religious traditions. Then he sent Jesus, who rather upset the apple cart, and through his disciples changed the rules and traditions that God previously established.

I hear this world's religions, "who come in Christ's Name" use the word "Judaizer" to justify their religious traditions since my youth. This word they created doesn't exist anywhere in the Scriptures and when I ask those who have adopted and are promoting the various religious sects and religious businesses of this world to define this word, they always deflect, or many times simply refuse to engage.

So I'll ask you. Was Jesus a "Judaizer" in His walk? John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Or was Saul a "Judiazer" in his walk? Gal. 1: 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14 And profited in the "Jews' religion" above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the "traditions of my fathers".

So was the Pharisee, who transgressed God's Commandments by their own religious traditions a "Judaizer"? Or was Jesus, who humbled Himself in obedience to God until death, a "Judaizer"?

And according to the religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting, which one of the two examples above walked in the "Good Works" God created, and ordained that His People should walk in them?

The Jesus of the Bible, or the Pharisees?

There is no evidence in scriptures to promote the popular preaching of this world, that Jesus came to "upset His Father's Apple Cart". He Himself said HE always did those things that pleased His Father. It seems HE saw this philosophy you are promoting coming and prepared me for it with His Word's below.

Matt. 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus has yet to return, therefore "all" has yet to be fulfilled.

What I advocate is for a man to place their Faith in God's Word "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:", not the traditions and doctrines of the many religious sects and businesses of this world who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

I’m sure you have your own set of “traditions” that you feel are in keeping with scripture.

You seem sure about a lot of things that aren't so sure.

“Don’t call unclean what I have called clean.”

Acts 10: 28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but "God hath shewed me" that I should not call any man common or unclean.

God cleanses unclean men, He never cleansed maggots or slugs or swine's flesh. They were unclean for food in Noah's Time, and they were still unclean when Jesus cast evil spirits into pigs, and they are still unclean today, according to Scriptures.

Jesus said disobedience, dishonor, evil thoughts come from within a man.

Matt. 15: 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Remember, I replied to your preaching. "Because he created us in his image, we are intended to act as he would act.

Did Jesus eat, or feed His Children dogs, or maggots, or slugs or swine's flesh? You know HE didn't. Why??? Because eating what His Father and my Father forbids to be eaten, doesn't please our Father, which art in heaven.

Eating what God has forbidden to eat is the oldest and most common evil among men. If we are created in God's Image, and are intended to act as HE would act, then we wouldn't eat what God had forbidden us to eat.

How is this not Biblically True?

The sentence you quoted to justify your religious traditions concerning food, wasn't about making slugs or dog meat clean for food, and it doesn't alter or make void God's instruction for man "To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten."

Does it matter? It did to the Jesus "of the Bible".

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by "every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

He used a fish with money its mouth; if television had been an option I think he would have, after all, he waited until the Romans has established their vast road systems to be able to send the disciples to the “ends of the earth”.
Do you think Jesus would have used electricity to tell his message if it had been available. You’re using technology that Jesus never used! Why are you allowed to use modern means of communication and others aren’t. If you were faithful to the tenets that you propose, you wouldn’t be on this site, because not once did “Jesus, or any example of the Body of Christ ever engage in any of these popular religious activities of this world in any of the Scriptures which prophesied about Him.”

Remember, I replied to your preaching. "Because he created us in his image, we are intended to act as he would act.

Would Jesus build a religious business where paid actors faked being sick so a man who "Transformed himself" into an apostle of Christ could fake healing him, and make millions and millions of dollars in the process?

What difference does the technology a fraudulent religious business uses to promote its business even matter? What is the difference if a man puts on a deceptive show face to face, in an email, on the TV or on this forum?

The fact that you are defending these religious frauds is fascinating to me. But then you must, because you are part of them. To speak the truth about them is to condemn yourself.

Jesus tells is "Don't be like unto them". And Again, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (Scales fell off of Paul's eyes, "AFTER" he left the mainstream religions of his time, blindness is part of the plagues)

2 Cor. 6: 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

I am happy to discuss Scriptures, and also to discuss the many religious philosophies and traditions promoted by this world's religions we are warned about over and over and over in the Bible.

 

[TibiasDad]

God cleanses unclean men, He never cleansed maggots or slugs or swine's flesh. They were unclean for food in Noah's Time, and they were still unclean when Jesus cast evil spirits into pigs, and they are still unclean today, according to Scriptures.

Acts 10:9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

Mark 17:9 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Rom 14:20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.


Doug

 

[Studyman]

Acts 10:9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

Men should consider seeking God's Righteousness, instead of self-justification. This is done in part, by considering "Every Word" written on a topic, not just the words men can use to justify a popular religious tradition.


17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there. 19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

So what did this vision mean? The ancient Catholic Religion preach to the world that this Vision Peter had means that God's Judgment concerning what is Food and what is not Food has been destroyed. And therefore, there is no longer any Godly distinction "To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten."

But when I read what is actually written, all of it, not just the parts men use to justify their rebellion against God's Judgments, here is what Peter actually tells me the Vision Meant.

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but "God hath shewed me" that I should not call any man common or unclean.

So I have you and the Catholic religion telling me God made maggots, slugs, dogs and swine's flesh clean with this vision. But I have God, and His Spirit on Peter telling me that Peter's vision was about cleansing men not swine's flesh.

Who shall a man listen too? I choose the Word of God.

In fact, there isn't any mention at all that God's erased His Distinction between what is clean and what is unclean. You do, the Catholic does, her protestant daughters do. But Peter didn't, and neither did Jesus.

I once lived by the traditions of this world's religions too, just like you and Saul. But when I studied the Scriptures for myself, I can see why Jesus said to "Take heed", and Paul said to "Beware" of the philosophies, traditions and doctrines promoted by the "many" of this world who "profess to know God, but by their "works" deny Him".

Mark 17:9 7:19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Again, the last part of the NIV was not in the original Greek Text. And the entire discussion was not about eating unclean foods. Here you are again, rejecting the teaching of the entire Bible concerning Swine's flesh, based on an added clause that wasn't even written in the first place. Consider what is actually written.

Mark. 7: 1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem. 2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

Where is the unclean food you and the Catholics preach to the world this chapter was preaching against?

3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

Let's continue reading what is actually written.

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but "eat bread" with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For "laying aside the commandment of God", ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

What was the tradition of men being broken by the Disciples here? Did God have a commandment or Judgment concerning the washing of hands before eating bread? Could such a practice "Defile" a man?

If only you would answer questions and engage in honest discourse.

Let's continue examining what is actually written.

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

So the Pharisees traditions made the Word of God of none effect. Was there a commandment of God forbidding a man to eat bread unless they washed their hands in a certain way, as per the tradition of the Pharisees?

No. Jesus is explaining that a man isn't defiled by eating bread with unwashed hands.

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. 16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; 19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

What comes out of a man that defiles him?

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

There it is right in front of you. Disobedience comes from within and defiles you. Dishonor towards God comes from within and defiles you. It's not the neighbor's wife that defiles a man, it's the lust in his heart for that which is forbidden by God, that defiles you. It's not the swine's flesh that defiles a man, it's the lust in your heart for that which is forbidden by God that defiles you.

Again, just like in Acts 10, you have injected your own lust to live in your own judgments and are using this story about eating bread with unwashed hands to justify your tradition of rejecting God's definition of Holy and Unholy.

Neither Jesus, nor Paul engaged in such a practice. But the Pharisees did.

Rom 14:20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

Again, to justify men's particular tradition which transgresses God's Commandments, they must cherry pick scriptures. But let's read what Paul actually says.

20 For meat destroy not the "work of God". All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that "condemneth not himself" in that thing which he alloweth.

What makes you believe Paul is speaking about men rejecting God's Judgments here? Paul has already taught the weak in faith to "abstain" from disobedience to God where food is concerned.

Acts 15: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Paul already told us "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" and again; "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:"

Jesus already told us not to worry about food.

Matt. 6: 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

What will I find out about food if I seek the Righteousness of God?

2 Cor. 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Where would I find out what Paul is speaking to concerning clean and unclean? The Holy Scriptures, Yes?

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Look, I know you have your religion, and most likely will cling to it. But I am instructed to test the spirits, to discern doctrines and philosophies.

You are promoting that Jesus came to "upset His Father's apple cart". You also preach that Jesus came to destroy God's Definition of Food, Clean and Holy.

I am sharing a perspective of a nobody who has come out of this world's popular religious sects and businesses and have studied apart from their influence, as much as is possible, for over 25 years now. The questions I ask are relevant, and the points I make are worthy of consideration.

I know, like in Jesus Time, and as prophesied, most men will choose the feel-good religious clubs of this world, who as Jeremiah warns "they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you..

But I want to let those reading along know that they are not alone if they see the hypocrisy and transgression of this world's religions and that I hope they continue to "Seek First" the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness.

Thanks for the platform and the perfect representation of modern religious philosophy.

 

[TibiasDad]

Remember, I replied to your preaching. "Because he created us in his image, we are intended to act as he would act.

We are intended to love as he has loved us!

Would Jesus build a religious business where paid actors faked being sick so a man who "Transformed himself" into an apostle of Christ could fake healing him, and make millions and millions of dollars in the process?

Because Jesus never drove a car, doesn’t mean we should only walk or ride on yet unridden donkey foals.

The means of communicating the gospel is not the issue. The message is the message, even when told be those whom he never knew.

I don’t know to whom you are referring as “transforming himself”, but I am only transformed by the Holy Spirit renewing my mind and conforming me to the image of Christ.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Again, the last part of the NIV was not in the original Greek Text.

ὅτι οὐκ εἰσπορεύεται αὐτοῦ εἰς τὴν καρδίαν ἀλλ’ εἰς τὴν κοιλίαν, καὶ εἰς τὸν ἀφεδρῶνα ἐκπορεύεται, καθαρίζων πάντα τὰ βρώματα;


Doug

 

[Studyman]

ὅτι οὐκ εἰσπορεύεται αὐτοῦ εἰς τὴν καρδίαν ἀλλ’ εἰς τὴν κοιλίαν, καὶ εἰς τὸν ἀφεδρῶνα ἐκπορεύεται, καθαρίζων πάντα τὰ βρώματα;


Doug

καθαρίζων (purifying) πάντα (all) τὰ (The) βρώματα; (Food)

As I said, the phrase "(Thus he declared all foods clean.) was added by this world's religions.

The context of this chapter is that the Pharisees promoted their own commandment regarding eating bread without first washing their hands a certain way. They preached to others that eating bread without first washing their hands, made the bread "unclean" and therefore defiled a man. The Jesus "of the Bible" is showing them that bread touched with unwashed hands and eaten does not defile a man, because it goes into the stomach, not the mind/heart, which purges, or destroys what is eaten. I posted the Christ's Words which show this, but they seem to have no real influence on you. The Greek says the stomach "cleanses (purifies) all foods" which has entered into it. The deceiver added the phrase "(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “ clean.”) which you have adopted. But in the original text, there is nothing mentioned about animals which HE, as God, deemed unclean, only that bread or goats or calves eaten with unwashed hands, doesn't defile a man.

I will post Jesus' Words again, even though they most likely won't matter to you.


18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Clearly disobedience to God's commandments come from within the heart. You are a preacher on this forum, and you don't know that?

But concerning dogs and swine here is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches.

Matt. 7: 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

This would be the same as saying, "Give not that which is holy unto the unclean, disobedient man, neither cast ye your pearls before those men who are unclean through their lust to disobey God, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Mark 5: 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

There is not ONE Prophesy in the entire bible where God promised to make maggots, dogs or swine clean for food. But HE knew this religion you are promoting was coming, and so HE prophesied about it to warn His people concerning His Return.

Is. 66: 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

17 They that "sanctify themselves", and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

I guess God and Isaiah didn't know about your Jesus, who came to upset God's Apple cart.

 

[Studyman]

We are intended to love as he has loved us!

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

How did Jesus Love these "Christians"?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

How did Jesus Love Peter after Peter showed his love for Jesus?

Matt. 16: 21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Being a disciple is more than saying catchy religious slogans, or churchy bumper stickers.

Because Jesus never drove a car, doesn’t mean we should only walk or ride on yet unridden donkey foals.

Please read my post again, and this time respond to something I actually said.

The means of communicating the gospel is not the issue. The message is the message, even when told be those whom he never knew.

Yes, it is the message that is important. That is my point from the very first reply to this OP. The message should be wrought in God, not man. You preaching that Jesus came to upset God's applecart, is not wrought in God. At least according to the Words of the Jesus "of the Bible". If Jesus was standing before your face, you and I both know you wouldn't dare to make such an accusation to Him.

I'm not hating you TD. I am loving you as Jesus loved me.

Seek the Kingdom of God and "HIS" Righteousness, not justification for your own.

I don’t know to whom you are referring as “transforming himself”, but I am only transformed by the Holy Spirit renewing my mind and conforming me to the image of Christ.

Doug

The Pope, Charles Russell and Joseph Smith and "many" others "who call Jesus Lord, Lord" say the same exact thing as you do. But you don't believe them when they say it. And yet you expect me to believe it when you say it?

Do yourself a favor and do a study on "ἐξαπατάω"

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Nevertheless, these discussions are good to have among men in this evil of times.

 

[TibiasDad]

20 For meat destroy not the "work of God". All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

All things indeed are clean…What part of all is difficult to understand? All “meat”, Greek βρῶμα, which means “any type of food”, “all food” is pure.

Again, as I have said, it’s not what goes into the body, but what comes from the heart that is evil. Thus, Paul is saying eating something is only wrong if we are knowingly offending a weaker brother/sister. It’s not the food itself, but the spirit.

So the Pharisees traditions made the Word of God of none effect. Was there a commandment of God forbidding a man to eat bread unless they washed their hands in a certain way, as per the tradition of the Pharisees?

Which is precisely why I said Jesus upset the apple cart of the Jewish traditions.

The Pope, Charles Russell and Joseph Smith and "many" others "who call Jesus Lord, Lord" say the same exact thing as you do. But you don't believe them when they say it. And yet you expect me to believe it when you say it?

Even broken clocks are correct twice a day!

Seek the Kingdom of God and "HIS" Righteousness, not justification for your own.

Two major issues here:

1) Define “his righteousness”; and
2) exactly how am I seeking justification for my own righteousness and where precisely am I expounding on this effort?

This is sounding like the Democratic efforts to demean Trump; he’s guilty of XYZ, but never define what XYZ are.


Doug