Acts 3:16 speaks of a faith that comes "through Him".
2 Peter 1:1 "those who have recieved faith the same as ours"
Habakkuk 2:4 "the righteous will live by His faith"
Romans 12:3 "the measure of faith that God has assigned"
Faith precedes life !
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2 Peter 1:1 "those who have recieved faith the same as ours"
Habakkuk 2:4 "the righteous will live by His faith"
Romans 12:3 "the measure of faith that God has assigned"
You want the word salvation or saved explicitly mentioned in the verses? Ok. Read Rom 10:8-13.
Also, the word believe is an active verb expressing action on your part. How do you believe, in a passive trance?
(Rom 10:8-13)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Nope. I want to see where it says salvation is a cooperative effort.You want the word salvation or saved explicitly mentioned in the verses? Ok. Read Rom 10:8-13.
Also, the word believe is an active verb expressing action on your part. How do you believe, in a passive trance?
(Rom 10:8-13)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
@brightfame52 is elusive in many ways as you pointed out. He avoids answering simple questions because it will expose his heresies. He is always ready to pull his "going in circles" card when it's time for him to bail out, as if he's not guilty of that. I would be interested to see if any other heretic like @Presby02 would answer what I asked BF52 in Post 295.
civic
Well-known member
not true see below in Ephesians 2:8
1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.
hope this helps !!!
You don't think we're acting in a cooperative way when we actively "believe" and execute his commands, namely confess and believe in Christ?
If not in cooperative way then in what way? In a grudgingly opposed way? Is that how Calvinists come to faith? Interesting...
brightfame52
Well-known member
Huh ? Stick to the scrip
brightfame52
Well-known member
Nope. It is cooperative when one party does exactly what the other party suggests must be done. It's especially true in the case of salvation where both parties must contribute to in order for it to occur. See Rom 10:8-17.
As far as who initiated salvation and who gets the full credit for it, of course it is God.
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Show us how you "stick to the script" by answering my question in Post 295. Here is my question again:
Says the Bible nowhere.
It does not matter what you or I think. It's what you can prove.You don't think we're acting in a cooperative way when we actively "believe" and execute his commands, namely confess and believe in Christ?
If not in cooperative way then in what way? In a grudgingly opposed way? Is that how Calvinists come to faith? Interesting...
Well, you offered no counterargument so my statement stands. You possess a poor understanding of how debates are conducted.
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brightfame52
Well-known member
All of Salvation is of God, you want to take credit for something that God alone should be praised and worshipped for. How can a dead sinner cooperate with being made a New Creation which is Salvation. God created the Christian Isa 43:7
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
Eph 2:10
10 For we[believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
You have a serious problem of reading what I wrote, contained in the very same post you responded to. I already wrote that it's God who gets full credit, meaning I get no credit. See below.
MTMattie
Well-known member
By example.... ( and should certainly be clear to you by explanation that not one of us is putting our own spin on anything.....)
As pithy as it could be.
WELCOME TO THE MESSIANIC REVOLUTION
6-4: The story of Noah teaches us that salvation is a COOPERATIVE EFFORT with God ~ By richoka
Back in my college days, I was obsessed with the question of why some nations in the world ended up becoming more prosperous than others.
My relentless search had me reading books like “Guns, Germs, and Steel” by Jared Diamond, “The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success” by Rodney Stark, “The Wealth and Poverty of Nations” by David Landes,and “What’s So Great About America” by Dinesh D’Souza as well as many other tomes expounding on a wide variety of evolutionary and political theories.
Maybe I’m a super weirdo, but in my late teens and early twenties, I was really curious as to why modernity developed ONLY in the West—in Europe and North America-and nowhere else.
Nowhere else did science and democracy arise; nowhere else was slavery outlawed.
Only Westerners invented chimneys, musical scores, telescopes, eyeglasses, pianos, electric lights, aspirin, and soap.
While different scholars have suggested a variety of reasons, I tend to go with the idea that it was the Judeo-Christian respect for manual labor, summed up in many Biblical injunctions, that was one of the main factors which enabled the West to rise above the other nations.
And I believe the story of Noah’s Ark is a prime example supporting the truthfulness of this theory.
God commands Noah to “build thee an ark with gopher wood”.
There is an important principle being established here that I hope everybody caught.
God will do His part to save us.
But we have to do our part as well.
Cooperative effort with God is necessary to secure our salvation.
Another important point we learn from Noah’s story is that 1 + God is always a majority.
In a world that had completely given itself over to evil, ONLY Noah was found righteous.
As a result, only Noah and his family were saved.
The remainder of all mankind was completely destroyed.
CONNECTING THIS TEACHING TO THE NEW TESTAMENT
“Also, at the time of the Son of Man, it will be just as it was at the time of Noah. People ate and drank, and men and women married, right up until the day Noah entered the ark; then the flood came and destroyed them all.“-Luke 17:26-27
“But when that day and hour will come, no one knows — not the angels in heaven, not the Son, only the Father. For the Son of Man’s coming will be just as it was in the days of Noah. Back then, before the Flood, people went on eating and drinking, taking wives and becoming wives, right up till the day Noah entered the ark; and they didn’t know what was happening until the Flood came and swept them all away. It will be just like that when the Son of Man comes.” -Matthew 24:36-39
“Go in through the narrow gate; for the gate that leads to destruction is wide and the road broad, and many travel it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”-Matthew 7:13-14
NOW. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS NOT GOD ALONE? IF NOT, WHY NOT?
Okay... let me try further... farther...?????? (one of them)
The process of salvation, and how it occurs, is at the heart of the Christian faith. DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE?.... NO MATTER I SHALL CONTINUE.
It is such a basic part of our faith, or it should be. DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE?.....
Now, here is where a cooperative effort comes in. And I'll try to be as clear as I can and if others want to post their ideas
the cooperative effort....please do so.... because admittedly it can sound confusing in its simplicity if one has a duifferent belief system
First... Justification, is where we are declared righteous because of what Christ did for us at Calvary. DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE that this is at least a fair assessment of Justification, even if you do not agree it is first?.....
That by putting our faith in Christ and turning from our sins, we are declared righteous and forgiven. There is no other way then turning from our sins that righteous should even be associated with our names? DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE......?
This is where grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). This is really all God’s doing. DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE?.....
We cannot save ourselves, but we can only cast ourselves on his mercy. ARE YOU WITH ME SO FAR?
I suggest you get comfortable and grab a cup of coffee AND TAKE YOUR TIME to read and digest what should be clear.
Now. What about the rest of our Christian life. What we call sanctification... is indeed a fully cooperative effort.
For those that might be quasi-fuzzy on what it means to be truly sanctified here is a brief explanation.
Sanctification is the process in Christianity of being made holy or set apart for God's purposes. It involves spiritual growth and transformation, where believers become more like Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives.
Simplifying this by saying Sanctification is God’s will for us . The word sanctification is related to the word saint; both words have to do with holiness. To “sanctify” something is to set it apart for special use; to “sanctify” a person is to make him holy. OKAY SO FAR...?
I do not want this to get so long as you will not read so I will close this explanation by saying....
While we are “set free from every sin” by the blood of Christ, we know that we still sin . “Progressive” or “experiential” sanctification, as it is sometimes called, is the effect of obedience to the Word of God in one’s life. It is the same as growing in the Lord or spiritual maturity. God started the work of making us like Christ, and He is continuing it (look up Philippians 1:6). This type of sanctification is to be pursued by the believer and is achieved by the application of the word (see John 17:17).
IOW: Progressive sanctification has in view the setting apart of believers for the purpose for which they are sent into the world:
I am speaking of that which we n this sense salvation is all about synergism (the combined work of God and man). We work together with God to grow in grace and become more Christlike and holy.
Now I have presented this as concise as I dare but hopefully in a Dick sees Jane run manner for understanding.
There is more, but you are not ready for you do not want to believe and understand.
We are here when you are.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You teaching the exaltation of man in Salvation. How can a spiritually dead wicked person, cooperate in being a New Creation. Thats like a piece of clay coming alive and saying, Im going to cooperate with you Mr Potter, I will assist in my creation
brightfame52
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
projecting as your teaching is the opposite of Jesus and the Apostles.
