Faith precedes life !

civic said:
well let me clue you in on something- its up to my friend if he wants to talk about it or not and has nothing to do with anything else.

and if we are talking about Gods will which you avoid all of the time here is a passage you disobey all of the time.

1 Peter 3:15- But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
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It still depends on Gods will
 
MTMattie said:
You were asked

Can you prove God exists.

There is no context to the question

You answered

If God wants him to he can, so it depends on Gods will

Just another nonsensical answer
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Thats my answer. If God has sent a person a strong delusion to believe a lie as He sometimes does 2 Thess 2:10-12

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

And wonder if that lie is for a person to be athiest in his or her thinking, how can anyone prove to them the Truth that God exist ?
 
Not only is it a fact that the unregenerate in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 also they naturally only mind the things of the flesh, even their religion Rom 8:5

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

The unregenerate in the flesh have no mind for the things of the Spirit, its like what Paul wrote about them in 1 Cor 2:13-14

13 Which things also we speak[The Gospel], not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Gospel Ministry is all about Spiritual things 1 Cor 9:11

If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
 
brightfame52 said:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
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Thank you for confirming that Rom 8 is talking about regenerates. You have yet to prove your heresy that God is not pleased by unregenerates believing the Gospel. Keep in mind that Rom 10:8-17, which you agreed to, proves that flesh (ears and mind) can foster faith in Christ when encountering the word of God, and that pleases God.

Keep those anti-calvinist verses coming!
 
civic said:
Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.


Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?
Calvinism has it backwards with life,regeneration, the new birth preceding faith.

conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.

1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life


hope this helps !!!
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BINGO!!! COnviction of SIN (God's WORD TO YOU Rom 10:17) is what kick off the "Born Again" process and brings FAITH by which you can repent and call on God to make Jesus' SIN OFFERING yours - resulting in the indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT Who bears witness with YOUR spirit that you're a child of God.
 
synergy said:
Thank you for confirming that Rom 8 is talking about regenerates. You have yet to prove your heresy that God is not pleased by unregenerates believing the Gospel. Keep in mind that Rom 10:8-17, which you agreed to, proves that flesh (ears and mind) can foster faith in Christ when encountering the word of God, and that pleases God.

Keep those anti-calvinist verses coming!
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Paul was writing to regenerated people who had the Spirit, but he commented to them about them who are in the flesh, who dont have the Spirit, they cant please God. Rom 8:8
 
brightfame52 said:
Paul was writing to regenerated people who had the Spirit, but he commented to them about them who are in the flesh, who dont have the Spirit, they cant please God. Rom 8:8
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Who has the choice between being in the Spirit and being in the flesh? Regenerates, Duh.

Paul is talking to Regenerates about Regenerates in Rom 8. Since you continuously fail to prove otherwise then Calvinism is Heresy.
 
synergy said:
Who has the choice between being in the Spirit and being in the flesh? Regenerates, Duh.

Paul is talking to Regenerates about Regenerates in Rom 8. Since you continuously fail to prove otherwise then Calvinism is Heresy.
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They which are in the flesh, the unregenerate, cannot please God, duh
 
brightfame52 said:
They which are in the flesh, the unregenerate, cannot please God, duh
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Even regenerates, who choose to be "in the flesh" (pursue fleshly desires) cannot please God. Duh.

So back to my question. Who has the choice between being in the Spirit and being in the flesh? Regenerates, Double Duh.

Therefore, Paul is talking to Regenerates about Regenerates in Rom 8. Since you continuously fail to prove otherwise then Calvinism is Heresy.
 
brightfame52 said:
Not only is it a fact that the unregenerate in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 also they naturally only mind the things of the flesh, even their religion Rom 8:5

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

The unregenerate in the flesh have no mind for the things of the Spirit, its like what Paul wrote about them in 1 Cor 2:13-14

13 Which things also we speak[The Gospel], not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Gospel Ministry is all about Spiritual things 1 Cor 9:11

If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
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OKAY.

This is beyond ridiculous at this point.

What are you so hyper about?

What is your end goal?

Are you priming yourself to start the accusations of which of us will never please God?

Or are you worried you never will?

Just look at your word salad.

You start with Romans 8:5 which I will point out says
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; ( then immediately says ) but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
There is nothing here that shores up what you keep on about.
Then you jump to 1 Cor 2: 13-14,
Then 1 Cor 9:11
You are so hungry to find the worst of the worst that is offered to mankind. Like " If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?"

Can you not see that they sowed spiritual things ... like planting seed so it would grow...and then are cautioning them by asking " is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?"

If these were unregenerated beingS WHO were not pleasing God....AS YOU KEEP SAYING, AND KEEP SAYING , AND KEEP SAYING , AND KEEP SAYING , AND KEEP SAYING , AND KEEP SAYING ,

PAY ATTENTION These were sown ( seeds planted for spiritual growth) spiritual things. It says it in your words and your bible....

If they were sown spiritual things....

WHO ARE THEY THAT DID THE SOWING???????????????????????????????????

Certainly not followers of Lucifer so THEY must be under instructions for God, Himself, or God, the Son.

Meaning God is very definitely going to consider these that is all you can talk about... PROVIDED THEY LET THE SPIRITUAL GROWTH TAKE HOLD AND DONT FIGHT IT.

It is time to move on and pick another battle to fight.
 
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Bob Carabbio said:
BINGO!!! COnviction of SIN (God's WORD TO YOU Rom 10:17) is what kick off the "Born Again" process and brings FAITH by which you can repent and call on God to make Jesus' SIN OFFERING yours - resulting in the indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT Who bears witness with YOUR spirit that you're a child of God.
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Amen brother !!!
 
synergy said:
Even regenerates, who choose to be "in the flesh" (pursue fleshly desires) cannot please God. Duh.

So back to my question. Who has the choice between being in the Spirit and being in the flesh? Regenerates, Double Duh.

Therefore, Paul is talking to Regenerates about Regenerates in Rom 8. Since you continuously fail to prove otherwise then Calvinism is Heresy.
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They which are in the flesh, the unregenerate, cannot please God, duh
 
brightfame52 said:
They which are in the flesh, the unregenerate, cannot please God, duh
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You don't think that regenerates can also be "in the flesh" if they choose to do so?

(Rom 8:13) For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Who is the "you" in Rom 8:13? Regenerates or unregenerates? Will you run away from this verse also?
 
synergy said:
You don't think that regenerates can also be "in the flesh" if they choose to do so?

(Rom 8:13) For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Who is the "you" in Rom 8:13? Regenerates or unregenerates? Will you run away from this verse also?
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They which are in the flesh, the unregenerate, cannot please God, duh
 
synergy said:
You don't think that regenerates can also be "in the flesh" if they choose to do so?

(Rom 8:13) For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Who is the "you" in Rom 8:13? Regenerates or unregenerates? Will you run away from this verse also?
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the blind leading the blind lol.
 

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