When are believers in Christ ?

[TomL]

Christ was the Head of the Church before creation, before Adam was the Head at Creation. Were men in Adam at the first ? Likewise they were in Christ prior to Adam, You ignore Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

As usual you ignore scripture

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 16:7 (LEB) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my compatriots and my fellow prisoners, who are well known to the apostles, who were also in Christ before me.

 

[Behold]

Conclusion: In summary we become to be in Christ when we believe and are given the Holy Spirit after placing our faith in the gospel message of our salvation.

Yes.
We can't believe the Gospel, before we hear it, as "faith (in the Gospel) come by HEARING".

This "hearing" can come many ways......not just by listening to preaching.

I'll give you an example.

The best Christian i personally know, is a woman who trusted in Christ, because the "GOSPEL" was being preached by the movie "Jesus of Nazareth".

She watched this movie, understood what Jesus was doing on The Cross for HER, and she placed her faith in Christ, before this movie ended.

God has many ways to deliver the TRUTH to you, so that you can have it revealed to you in your heart, so that you can decided to Trust in Christ.

Some people who doubt God, will say..>>"well, how can some lost tribe in a rain forest who have never been out of the forest, be given the Gospel".

Easy, see.. "with God all things are Possible".. and if God needs to send someone in a big fish to the Lost then He will...

If God needs to send the Gospel to some "lost tribe" or to some communist country that wont allow Bibles or Christians.... then "with God all things are possible, and He'll get the Gospel in there..........no problem.

 

[Neil Spargo]

Yes.
We can't believe the Gospel, before we hear it, as "faith (in the Gospel) come by HEARING".

This "hearing" can come many ways......not just by listening to preaching.

I'll give you an example.

The best Christian i personally know, is a woman who trusted in Christ, because the "GOSPEL" was being preached by the movie "Jesus of Nazareth".

She watched this movie, understood what Jesus was doing on The Cross for HER, and she placed her faith in Christ, before this movie ended.

God has many ways to deliver the TRUTH to you, so that you can have it revealed to you in your heart, so that you can decided to Trust in Christ.

Some people who doubt God, will say..>>"well, how can some lost tribe in a rain forest who have never been out of the forest, be given the Gospel".

Easy, see.. "with God all things are Possible".. and if God needs to send someone in a big fish to the Lost then He will...

If God needs to send the Gospel to some "lost tribe" or to some communist country that wont allow Bibles or Christians.... then "with God all things are possible, and He'll get the Gospel in there..........no problem.

Jesus replied, “I tell you, . . . if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out” (Luke 19:40). What did Jesus mean by this statement? Did He mean that the rocks would literally start shouting praises to the Lord? Most likely, no. The expression the stones will cry out seems to be proverbial and isn’t to be understood as a literal statement. The meaning seems to be that it is more likely that the impossible would happen than for the King of kings to enter His capital city without honor. Got?

Acts 21:14
Verse Concepts
And since he would not be persuaded, we fell silent, remarking, “The will of the Lord be done!”

Matthew 6:10
Verse Concepts
‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.

Matthew 26:42
Verse Concepts
He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, “My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done.”

2 Samuel 10:12
Verse Concepts
Be strong, and let us show ourselves courageous for the sake of our people and for the cities of our God; and may the Lord do what is good in His sight.”

2 Samuel 15:26
Verse Concepts
But if He should say thus, ‘I have no delight in you,’ behold, here I am, let Him do to me as seems good to Him.”

1 Peter 4:19
Verse Concepts
Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.

Zechariah 1:6
Verse Concepts
But did not My words and My statutes, which I commanded My servants the prophets, overtake your fathers? Then they repented and said, ‘As the Lord of hosts purposed to do to us in accordance with our ways and our deeds, so He has dealt with us.’”’”

James 4:15
Verse Concepts
Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that.”

Romans 1:10
Verse Concepts
always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you.

Acts 18:21
Verse Concepts
but taking leave of them and saying, “I will return to you again if God wills,” he set sail from Ephesus.

1 Corinthians 4:19
Verse Concepts
But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I shall find out, not the words of those who are arrogant but their power.

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God~s-Will-Be-Done

 

[brightfame52]

As usual you ignore scripture

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 16:7 (LEB) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my compatriots and my fellow prisoners, who are well known to the apostles, who were also in Christ before me.

Christ was the Head of the Church before creation, before Adam was the Head at Creation. Were men in Adam at the first ? Likewise they were in Christ prior to Adam, You ignore Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[TomL]

Christ was the Head of the Church before creation, before Adam was the Head at Creation. Were men in Adam at the first ? Likewise they were in Christ prior to Adam, You ignore Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Still failing to address the fact men are in Christ in time when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 16:7 (LEB) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my compatriots and my fellow prisoners, who are well known to the apostles, who were also in Christ before me.

 

[brightfame52]

Still failing to address the fact men are in Christ in time when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 16:7 (LEB) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my compatriots and my fellow prisoners, who are well known to the apostles, who were also in Christ before me.

You are unable to receive this spiritual truth,

Christ was the Head of the Church before creation, before Adam was the Head at Creation. Were men in Adam at the first ? Likewise they were in Christ prior to Adam, You ignore Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[TomL]

You are unable to receive this spiritual truth,

Christ was the Head of the Church before creation, before Adam was the Head at Creation. Were men in Adam at the first ? Likewise they were in Christ prior to Adam, You ignore Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

You are unable to harmonize your theology with scripture

Still failing to address the fact men are in Christ in time when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 16:7 (LEB) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my compatriots and my fellow prisoners, who are well known to the apostles, who were also in Christ before me.

What you have in verse 4 is the statement God chose to find those in Christ holy and blameless before him in love

 

[brightfame52]

You are unable to harmonize your theology with scripture

Still failing to address the fact men are in Christ in time when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 16:7 (LEB) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my compatriots and my fellow prisoners, who are well known to the apostles, who were also in Christ before me.

What you have in verse 4 is the statement God chose to find those in Christ holy and blameless before him in love

You are unable to receive this spiritual truth,

Christ was the Head of the Church before creation, before Adam was the Head at Creation. Were men in Adam at the first ? Likewise they were in Christ prior to Adam, You ignore Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[TomL]

You are unable to receive this spiritual truth,

Christ was the Head of the Church before creation, before Adam was the Head at Creation. Were men in Adam at the first ? Likewise they were in Christ prior to Adam, You ignore Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

You are unable to harmonize your views with scripture

You are unable to harmonize your theology with scripture

Still failing to address the fact men are in Christ in time when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 16:7 (LEB) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my compatriots and my fellow prisoners, who are well known to the apostles, who were also in Christ before me.

What you have in verse 4 is the statement God chose to find those in Christ holy and blameless before him in love

 

[brightfame52]

You are unable to harmonize your views with scripture

You are unable to harmonize your theology with scripture

Still failing to address the fact men are in Christ in time when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 16:7 (LEB) — 7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my compatriots and my fellow prisoners, who are well known to the apostles, who were also in Christ before me.

What you have in verse 4 is the statement God chose to find those in Christ holy and blameless before him in love

You are unable to receive this spiritual truth,

Christ was the Head of the Church before creation, before Adam was the Head at Creation. Were men in Adam at the first ? Likewise they were in Christ prior to Adam, You ignore Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[Larry]

Jesus Christ himself is the chosen one, the predestined one. Whenever one is incorporated into him by grace through faith, one comes to share in Jesus’ special status as chosen by God.

“The LORD will show who belongs to him.” Num. 16:5

This refers to the Godward aspect of the Christian life: God chose us who trust Him as His elect. 2 Tim. 2:10

If you’ve placed your faith in Jesus, you are now a son or daughter of God.

 

[TomL]

You are unable to receive this spiritual truth,

Christ was the Head of the Church before creation, before Adam was the Head at Creation. Were men in Adam at the first ? Likewise they were in Christ prior to Adam, You ignore Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Chosen those who believe and are the faithful in Christ

Ephesians 1:1–4 (NASB95) — 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

He chose them to be holy and blameless

 

[Behold]

He chose them to be holy and blameless

Actually not.

What the verse is saying, is that Before Adam was created, ... God had a plan of redemption. This plan is that Adam #2 was going to offer Himself for the sin of the world on The CROSS...... (for every sinner) < ...= and all who would BELIEVE, would become born again IN Christ.

And by being "born again IN Christ"... the now redeemed sinner, is "holy and Blameless".

So, to become "IN Christ", is now you become "holy and blameless before God", and that was God's eternal plan for the redemption of mankind.....= one believer at a time.

 

[TomL]

Actually not.

What the verse is saying, is that Before Adam was created, ... God had a plan of redemption. This plan is that Adam #2 was going to offer Himself for the sin of the world on The CROSS...... (for every sinner) < ...= and all who would BELIEVE, would become born again IN Christ.

And by being "born again IN Christ"... the now redeemed sinner, is "holy and Blameless".

So, to become "IN Christ", is now you become "holy and blameless before God", and that was God's eternal plan for the redemption of mankind.....= one believer at a time.

I believe you are misunderstanding my comments.

Those who would believe were chosen to be holy and blameless before God in love

I do not dispute those who believe are in Christ

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[brightfame52]

Chosen those who believe and are the faithful in Christ

Ephesians 1:1–4 (NASB95) — 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

He chose them to be holy and blameless

Dude, the elect were in Christ before the world began

 

[Behold]

Those who would believe were chosen to be holy and blameless before God in love

No one is singled out to be holy.

God does not look at the world of people and say.......>"ok, all the Glenn's, and the Marty's and the Mary's, i will choose to be holy" and all the "Mikes, and the Andy's and the Bart's i WONT' choose"'.

See here is the Problem, one of them with brain dead nonsense HyperCalvinism.......and its that this type of stupid theology.. moronic theology.... does not understand that if God only chooses SOME..........then what is God's basis for excluding others, when "ALL. have sinned" and "there is none righteous, no not one"... ?

See that?
There is no basis for God to pick out some, and overlook on purpose, others... when in fact we are all in the same situation, as LOST Hellbound sinners, until WE choose CHRIST and then GOD takes US.

You can ask a easily deceived Hyper-Calvinist ..."well, Hyper Calvinism, TULIP.. = 5 Points.....does not teach that everyone in any FAMILY is predestined to go to heaven.......So then, If your mother, or children, or wife, or grandmother, is NOT chosen as the "predestined".. and you are.. then why did God choose you, and not them"..?? Whats so special about you , that would cause God to pick you out of your family to save, while they all go to a Devil's Hell?

"""well, ummm, well............ummmmmm, well........i never thought about it like that"""........and that is because Calvinism-HyperCalvinism is a brain rot. Its a spiritual virus that just turns your thinking off, (Mind Blindness)...so that you can't see anything other then (TULIP-The 5 Points) when you open a bible.

 

[TomL]

No one is singled out to be holy.

God does not look at the world of people and say.......>"ok, all the Glenn's, and the Marty's and the Mary's, i will choose to be holy" and all the "Mikes, and the Andy's and the Bart's i WONT' choose"'.

See here is the Problem, one of them with brain dead nonsense HyperCalvinism.......and its that this type of stupid theology.. moronic theology.... does not understand that if God only chooses SOME..........then what is God's basis for excluding others, when "ALL. have sinned" and "there is none righteous, no not one"... ?

See that?
There is no basis for God to pick out some, and overlook on purpose, others... when in fact we are all in the same situation, as LOST Hellbound sinners, until WE choose CHRIST and then GOD takes US.

You can ask a easily deceived Hyper-Calvinist ..."well, Hyper Calvinism, TULIP.. = 5 Points.....does not teach that everyone in any FAMILY is predestined to go to heaven.......So then, If your mother, or children, or wife, or grandmother, is NOT chosen as the "predestined".. and you are.. then why did God choose you, and not them"..?? Whats so special about you , that would cause God to pick you out of your family to save, while they all go to a Devil's Hell?

"""well, ummm, well............ummmmmm, well........i never thought about it like that"""........and that is because Calvinism-HyperCalvinism is a brain rot. Its a spiritual virus that just turns your thinking off, (Mind Blindness)...so that you can't see anything other then (TULIP-The 5 Points) when you open a bible.

Again I did not speak of anyone singled out to be holy

I stated believers (believers-those in Christ) were selected to be holy and blameless before God in love

 

[Behold]

I stated believers (believers-those in Christ) were selected to be holy and blameless before God in love

As long as you present "selected to be holy before the foundation of the world".........as "what happens after you are born again"...vs...... the Hyper-Calvinism lie that teaches you were selected before you were born, and had no say in it........as in "free will"... to believe.

So, as long as you are not trying to prove that "God selected the Christian" before he or she was born... to become HOLY...., and they had no choice.........as it was "pre-destined".......then all is well.

 

[Obadiah]

Your in Christ when you are set free. and you know it. Have you ever see a news video of someone being let out of prison? They know they are free. It's the same for a new believer.

My initial experience as a new believer was the honest exhilaration of having the promise and expectation of eternal life. Meeting other believers was a signal for joy. I assumed that they had seen their privileged position, as I had, and renounced the self-defeating habits and hopes of their old way of life. Every minute of life was a moment to be cherished as a gift from God, to be used for His glory. This was what I understood at the beginning.

Soon I began to realize that other Christians did not experience their life in Christ in the same way. Festering beneath clouds of piety was bitterness, jealousy, anger, and complaining, all of which I had known before coming to faith in Christ.

They were not set free and were not in Christ. You will know them by their fruit.

 

[Behold]

Your in Christ when you are set free. and you know it. Have you ever see a news video of someone being let out of prison? They know they are free. It's the same for a new believer.

My initial experience as a new believer was the honest exhilaration of having the promise and expectation of eternal life. Meeting other believers was a signal for joy. I assumed that they had seen their privileged position, as I had, and renounced the self-defeating habits and hopes of their old way of life. Every minute of life was a moment to be cherished as a gift from God, to be used for His glory. This was what I understood at the beginning.

Soon I began to realize that other Christians did not experience their life in Christ in the same way. Festering beneath clouds of piety was bitterness, jealousy, anger, and complaining, all of which I had known before coming to faith in Christ.

They were not set free and were not in Christ. You will know them by their fruit.

It is usually the case that a person, when born again......has a remarkable "freeing".. in their mind......its like "all that weight is off of me"....
"My mind is so calm"... ect.

And then........Hebrews 13:9 explains that at this point.......in the beginning of our "new creation in Christ".. we must....>>"establish our heart with Grace".
We must understand that the reason we are saved and stay saved always, is God's Mercy and Grace, that is found as The Cross of Christ.

If we move away from this "heart", then we find Legalism........and that is when the ....>>"what i have to do to stay saved" and "what do i do to keep from loving my salvation"....takes over our faith, and destroys it.

WE have to protect that original understanding that we are "made righteous". "eternally forgiven"..... or... a cult, a forum member, a family member.. a pastor.. a commentary... will find you, and it/they will destroy your faith, and that is when a "doctrine of devils" has taken over as your belief system.