Faith precedes life !

Exactly right. Now he needs to provide any text at all which says salvation is a cooperative effort.
True for Paul's audience that is regenerated.
What you guys need to do is to make your case with verses that speak of unregenerates, and then we can explore your heresies further. I offered @brightfame52 to discuss Rom 10:8-17 but he approaches those verses like the plague. Therefore, I'm leaving it up to you guys to find verses for unregenerates that you feel comfortable with. If you continue to not find even one that makes your case then it will be crystal clear to you (it's already crystal clear to me) that you guys are espousing heresies.
 
True for Paul's audience that is regenerated.
What you guys need to do is to make your case with verses that speak of unregenerates, and then we can explore your heresies further. I offered @brightfame52 to discuss Rom 10:8-17 but he approaches those verses like the plague. Therefore, I'm leaving it up to you guys to find verses for unregenerates that you feel comfortable with. If you continue to not find even one that makes your case then it will be crystal clear to you (it's already crystal clear to me) that you guys are espousing heresies.
Nothing about your heretical synergism there. Anything else?

It's up to you to show us where salvation is a cooperative effort. We're listening........
 
Nothing about your heretical synergism there. Anything else?

It's up to you to show us where salvation is a cooperative effort. We're listening........
Sigh.

Charles Dickens gave us the Artful Dodger. YOU @Presby02 learned well.

Such evasiveness , such avoidance.

If you cannot do such when asked just dont reply. You can always fall back on "I didn't see it" if challenged later.
 
You make statements without any Bible support. This is so typical of Calvinists.

I already mentioned Rom 10:8-17 and sure enough you also are avoiding it like the plague, typical of Calvinists.
All one has to do is read it. LOL Where do you see anything about a cooperative effort in the text? Wer are waiting.

The one is avoiding it now is you. Poi t out the synergism in the text.
 
Sigh.

Charles Dickens gave us the Artful Dodger. YOU @Presby02 learned well.

Such evasiveness , such avoidance.

If you cannot do such when asked just dont reply. You can always fall back on "I didn't see it" if challenged later.
It's such a powerful text for the heretical synergistic it should be easy. It his text keep in mind. The burden of proof lies with him. We are wating.....
 
All one has to do is read it. LOL
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Sorry, my mind is not held captive by your heretical presuppositions.
Where do you see anything about a cooperative effort in the text? Wer are waiting.

The one is avoiding it now is you. Poi t out the synergism in the text.
You made a statement without any Bible support. Prove your statement. At least I had some semblance of a Bible verses discussion with @brightfame52 . With you I only have your unsupported statements that are mesmerized by your heretical presuppositions. You are definitely the "Artful Dodger". The "Artful" designator is really stretching it.
 
It's such a powerful text for the heretical synergistic it should be easy. It his text keep in mind. The burden of proof lies with him. We are wating.....
Dis me right now... it is fine. Goes along with the deflection mode of y"all.

It is a great topic... one worthy of its own thread..... ( salvation as a cooperative effort which is clearly seen in the verses synergy posted)....but not until you lay it all out for your biblical proof of the unregenerated....
 
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Sorry, my mind is not held captive by your heretical presuppositions.

You made a statement without any Bible support. Prove your statement. At least I had some semblance of a Bible verses discussion with @brightfame52 . With you I only have your unsupported statements that are mesmerized by your heretical presuppositions. You are definitely the "Artful Dodger". The "Artful" designator is really stretching it.
Your the one pushing your version of Catholic synergism. Prove salvation is a cooperative effort. Romans 10 mentions nothing of it.
 
Keep avoiding the issue. Just as a reminder, the topic is Synergism.
Not exactly. The title of this thread is "Faith precedes Life". You definitely need glasses or need a new pair of glasses. So take care of that and read up on all the posts that support that statement. Give us any Bible-based counterarguments (there aren't any) and we'll take it from there. Ok? Hop to it.

I'm not adverse to discussing synergism vs monergism as long as you focus on the Bible which destroys your heretical calvinist dogmatisms.
 
Your the one pushing your version of Catholic synergism.
Huh? Why in the world would you think I'm pushing "Catholic synergism"??? :unsure:

I use the term Synergy in the same sense that the Apostles called themselves Synergists (συνεργοι or συνεργουντος) in Mark 16:20 and 1 Cor 3:9.

In Mark 16:20, the Greek words του κυριου συνεργουντος translate to Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers and in 1 Cor 3:9 the Greek words συνεργοι θεου translate to God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers.

(Mark 16:20) εκεινοι δε εξελθοντες εκηρυξαν πανταχου του κυριου συνεργουντος (Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) και τον λογον βεβαιουντος δια των επακολουθουντων σημειων σημειων αμην

(1 Cor 3:9) θεου γαρ εσμεν συνεργοι θεου (God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) γεωργιον θεου οικοδομη εστε

Educate yourself and then we can talk. Ok?
 
Not exactly. The title of this thread is "Faith precedes Life". You definitely need glasses or need a new pair of glasses. So take care of that and read up on all the posts that support that statement. Give us any Bible-based counterarguments (there aren't any) and we'll take it from there. Ok? Hop to it.

I'm not adverse to discussing synergism vs monergism as long as you focus on the Bible which destroys your heretical calvinist dogmatisms.
Actually synergy brought up synergism. Instead of always being on the attack, try reading through the thread and post something of substance. Grow up is what I am trying to say.

Does it? Easy to say, harder to prove. You may begin at anytime. Lets see what you got, if anything.
 
Huh? Why in the world would you think I'm pushing "Catholic synergism"??? :unsure:

I use the term Synergy in the same sense that the Apostles called themselves Synergists (συνεργοι or συνεργουντος) in Mark 16:20 and 1 Cor 3:9.

In Mark 16:20, the Greek words του κυριου συνεργουντος translate to Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers and in 1 Cor 3:9 the Greek words συνεργοι θεου translate to God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers.

(Mark 16:20) εκεινοι δε εξελθοντες εκηρυξαν πανταχου του κυριου συνεργουντος (Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) και τον λογον βεβαιουντος δια των επακολουθουντων σημειων σημειων αμην

(1 Cor 3:9) θεου γαρ εσμεν συνεργοι θεου (God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) γεωργιον θεου οικοδομη εστε

Educate yourself and then we can talk. Ok?
They never say they were synergistic when it came to their salvation or that salvation is synergistic. There, I educated you. It's a full time job for sure.
 
Huh? Why in the world would you think I'm pushing "Catholic synergism"??? :unsure:

I use the term Synergy in the same sense that the Apostles called themselves Synergists (συνεργοι or συνεργουντος) in Mark 16:20 and 1 Cor 3:9.

In Mark 16:20, the Greek words του κυριου συνεργουντος translate to Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers and in 1 Cor 3:9 the Greek words συνεργοι θεου translate to God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers.

(Mark 16:20) εκεινοι δε εξελθοντες εκηρυξαν πανταχου του κυριου συνεργουντος (Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) και τον λογον βεβαιουντος δια των επακολουθουντων σημειων σημειων αμην

(1 Cor 3:9) θεου γαρ εσμεν συνεργοι θεου (God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) γεωργιον θεου οικοδομη εστε

Educate yourself and then we can talk. Ok?
Catholics are synergists. They believe we cooperate in our salvation. Do you agree with them yes or no?
 
Keep avoiding the issue. Just as a reminder, the topic is Synergism.
You are talking about initial salvation and TOTALLY ignore sanctification-cutting out synergism which is biblical




And you completely misunderstand the Scriptures.
Ephesians 2:8-9 – Salvation by Grace Through Faith (Human Response Required)
Greek and Morphology Analysis
τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον· οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, ἵνα μή τις καυχήσηται.

ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι (este sesōsmenoi) – Perfect Passive Participle of σῴζω (sōzō, "to save")

The perfect tense signifies a completed action with continuing results.

The passive voice shows that salvation originates from God.

διὰ πίστεως (dia pisteōs, "through faith") – πίστις (pistis, "faith") in the genitive case functions as the means or instrument of salvation.

This excludes automatic regeneration because faith is the necessary response.

Dana & Mantey (p. 103) confirm that διά with the genitive denotes means, not cause—faith is the channel, not the origin.

οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων (ouk ex ergōn, "not of works") – This excludes meritorious actions but does not nullify the necessity of faith as a response.

BDAG (p. 818) emphasizes that ἔργα (erga, "works") in Pauline thought generally refers to the Law, not the exercise of faith itself.

Synergistic Implication
Faith (πίστις) is necessary for the realization of salvation. If faith were automatically given after regeneration (monergism), Paul would not say that salvation is "through faith." Instead, salvation is by grace, through the means of faith, necessitating human response.

Paul explicitly teaches that confession and faith precede salvation, contradicting monergism. If salvation were entirely unilateral, Paul would have written, "You will be saved, and then you will confess and believe." Instead, confession and belief are prerequisites, making salvation synergistic.


Joh_1:12 "But as many as received Him" This shows humanity's part in salvation (cf. Joh_1:16). Humans must respond to God's offer of grace in Christ (cf. Joh_3:16; Rom_3:24; Rom_4:4-5; Rom_6:23; Rom_10:9-13; Eph_2:8-9). God is certainly sovereign, yet in His sovereignty He has initiated a conditional covenant relationship with fallen humanity. Fallen mankind must repent, believe, obey, and persevere in faith.
This concept of "receiving" is theologically parallel to "believing" and "confessing," which denoted a public profession of faith in Jesus as the Christ (cf. Mat_10:32; Luk_12:8; Joh_9:22; Joh_12:42; 1Ti_6:12; 1Jn_2:23; 1Jn_4:15). Salvation is a gift that must be received and acknowledged.
Those who "receive" Jesus (Joh_1:12) receive the Father who sent Him (cf. Joh_13:20; Mat_10:40). Salvation is a personal relationship with the Triune God!
Utley.


"through faith" Faith receives God's free gift in Christ (cf. Rom_3:22; Rom_3:25; Rom_4:5; Rom_9:30; Gal_2:16; Gal_3:24; 1Pe_1:5). Mankind must respond to God's offer of grace and forgiveness in Christ (cf. Joh_1:12; Joh_3:16-17; Joh_3:36; Joh_6:40; Joh_11:25-26; Rom_10:9-13).
God deals with fallen mankind by means of a covenant. He always takes the initiative (cf. Joh_6:44; Joh_6:65) and sets the agenda and the boundaries (cf. Mar_1:15; Act_3:16; Act_3:19; Act_20:21). He allows fallen mankind to participate in their own salvation by responding to His covenant offer. The mandated response is both initial and continuing faith. It involves repentance, obedience, service, worship, and perseverance.
The term "faith" in the OT is a metaphorical extension of a stable stance. It came to denote that which is sure, trustworthy, dependable, and faithful. None of these describe even redeemed fallen mankind. It is not mankind's trustworthiness, or faithfulness, or dependability, but God's. We trust in His trustworthy promises, not our trustworthiness! Covenant obedience flows from gratitude! The focus has always been on His faithfulness, not the believers' faith! Faith cannot save anyone. Only grace saves, but it is received by faith. The focus is never on the amount of faith (cf. Mat_17:20), but on its object (Jesus).
Utley


J.
 
They never say they were synergistic when it came to their salvation or that salvation is synergistic. There, I educated you. It's a full time job for sure.
Have you fixed your glasses issue yet because you're going to need them.

Let's look at what Mark 1:15 says and not what Calvinists say. Mark 1:15 records the following from Christ:

15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe (πιστεύετε) in the gospel.”

The Greek word πιστεύετε (believe) is an imperative active verb. That's pretty salvific, wouldn't you say? Christ implores/exhorts us to actively believe. That's our active part. There is nothing passive about it. That's Synergism in full bloom.
 
Let's look at what Mark 1:15 says and not what Calvinists say. Mark 1:15 records the following from Christ:

15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe (πιστεύετε) in the gospel.”

The Greek word πιστεύετε (believe) is an imperative active verb. That's pretty salvific, wouldn't you say? Christ implores/exhorts us to actively believe. That's our active part. There is nothing passive about it. That's Synergism in full bloom.
Calvinists often argue that faith is monergistically given by God before human response. However:

If faith were purely passive, why would Jesus command it?

The use of the present imperative contradicts the idea that faith is entirely God's unilateral work since it demands an active human response.

The continuous aspect of the verb suggests an ongoing action, aligning more with a synergistic framework.

5. Cross-References Supporting Synergism
John 3:16 – "Whoever believes (πιστεύων, present active participle) in Him shall not perish..." – Again, the active, ongoing nature of faith.

Acts 16:31 – "Believe (πίστευσον, aorist imperative) in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved." – A direct command to believe.

Romans 10:9-10 – "If you confess (ὁμολογήσῃς, aorist subjunctive) with your mouth... and believe (πιστεύσῃς, aorist subjunctive) in your heart, you will be saved."


Act 16:30 After leading them out of the jail, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They answered, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you and your household will be saved."


J.
 
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