Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Eternally-Grateful]

In 724, you said "even gentiles can keep the law better than they did". Rom 2:13-17 does not stop there. That "better" is that the Nations as doers of the Law will be justified. Do you believe Paul?

742 is my comment talking about other verses.]

I said more than that, but thank you for proving I did comment on them.

I never said that you "did not say something". In fact, you said enough, believe me.
If you wish to use that to bail out then I will understand.

Whatever

You say enough every time you talk. Enough to know you’re not someone I would go to for any scriptural knowledge. Or any guidance.

But thats beside the point

Good day,

 

[synergy]

@synergy -that was the one point, version, here is the other

Hebrews 6:4–6 (NASB95)

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

Greek Grammar and Syntactical Analysis:

τοὺς ἅπαξ φωτισθέντας — “those who were once enlightened”; aorist passive participle of φωτίζω, pointing to a definite past experience, typically associated with conversion or baptism (cf. Hebrews 10:32).

γευσαμένους τῆς δωρεᾶς τῆς ἐπουρανίου — “having tasted the heavenly gift”; aorist middle participle of γεύομαι, indicating real experience, not a superficial one. Compare γευσάμενον θανάτου in Hebrews 2:9 where Christ “tasted death.”

μετόχους γενηθέντας Πνεύματος Ἁγίου — “having become partakers of the Holy Spirit”; aorist passive participle of γίνομαι, indicating a definitive transformation or participation.

καὶ καλὸν γευσαμένους θεοῦ ῥῆμα δυνάμεις τε μέλλοντος αἰῶνος — “and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come”; the parallel structure amplifies the genuine spiritual experience.

καὶ παραπεσόντας — “and have fallen away”; aorist active participle of παραπίπτω, used only here in the NT, meaning a decisive moral and spiritual fall.

ἀνακαινίζειν εἰς μετάνοιαν — “to renew again to repentance”; present active infinitive of ἀνακαινίζω, indicating an ongoing or repeated action that is no longer possible for them.

Early Church Witnesses:

Tertullian (On Modesty, 20): Argues from this text that post-baptismal sins-especially grievous ones-were not easily remitted.

Origen (Homilies on Hebrews, Fragments): Interprets this passage as referring to baptized believers who willfully reject Christ, warning that their return is extremely difficult but not absolutely impossible.

Counter to Non-Salvific Interpretation:

PreceptAustin argues that these individuals were “not saved in a salvific sense.” This view is untenable for several reasons:

The compound descriptions (enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, partakers of the Holy Spirit) far exceed any peripheral or superficial exposure.

The use of γευσάμενοι and μετόχους elsewhere in Hebrews consistently refers to real spiritual participation (cf. Hebrews 3:1, 14).

There is no suggestion in the text that these were simply “close to conversion”; the grammar and context indicate they were regenerate.

II. Hebrews 10:26–29 (NASB95)

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Greek Grammar and Syntactical Analysis:

Ἑκουσίως γὰρ ἁμαρτανόντων ἡμῶν — “for if we go on sinning willfully”; present active participle of ἁμαρτάνω, with ἑκουσίως (willingly, deliberately), indicating a habitual, unrepentant attitude.

μετὰ τὸ λαβεῖν τὴν ἐπίγνωσιν τῆς ἀληθείας — “after receiving the knowledge of the truth”; aorist active infinitive of λαμβάνω, indicating a completed act of reception.

οὐκέτι περὶ ἁμαρτιῶν ἀπολείπεται θυσία — “there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins”; ἀπολείπεται (present passive), implying a present, ongoing lack.

τὸ αἷμα τῆς διαθήκης ἡγιάσθη — “the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified”; aorist passive of ἁγιάζω, showing the subject had been truly sanctified.

Exegetical Notes:

Verse 29 explicitly says the individual was sanctified by the blood of the covenant, which cannot apply to anyone except a true believer.

The tripartite description: “trampled under foot the Son of God,” “regarded the blood as unclean,” and “insulted the Spirit of grace” can only refer to apostasy from a position of real knowledge and sanctification.



Hebrews 6:4–6 and 10:26–29 refer not to hypothetical cases or superficial believers, but to real Christians who apostatize. These passages affirm that perseverance is not automatic and that warnings against falling away are directed at those genuinely in the covenant.

Interpretations denying this flatten the richness of the Greek grammar and the theological weight of the warnings.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brother, I am not trying to go along with the popular view just for its own sake. After carefully examining the grammar of the passage, this is what I believe to be correct. I simply cannot exegete this text any other way without doing injustice to God's word. At the same time, I do believe in eternal security and in the perseverance of the saints, though how perseverance is commonly understood is not really my concern here.

You have brought up one of those deeply paradoxical passages. On one hand, it appears that a believer in Christ could forfeit salvation. On the other hand, I could show you dozens of passages that affirm it is impossible for a true believer to be snatched out of Christ's hand.

I hope this gives some clarity. Scripture often speaks in paradoxes, both in triads and in paired tensions. We must rely on the Holy Spirit more than ever to rightly divide the word of truth and to walk carefully in what has been written.

Took me a while to put this together, hope you appreciate it.

Way too much disagreements on this forum brother.

Johann

Excellent work! This version of yours takes in Repentance and the Greek language. Knowledge of Greek is vital in truly understanding the NT.

The only way I can harmonize all these seemingly paradoxical verses is that it takes a lot to lose one's salvation. It will take a persistent, unyielding, open, unremitting, incorrigible, raging, assault on Christianity to actually lose one's salvation. That possibility is so remote that for all intents and purposes it can be said that our salvation is assured.

Keep the Faith!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

please look at what I highlighted.

what if someone SAYS they have faith..

can THAT professed faith save him.

all of James words are based on these words.. Because James is going to answer that question. and while doing it. He is going to explain why and what they should do.. (show me your faith.. I will prove my faith)


for a christian no longer under law. It would be called the law of liberty.

it does not matter what law. the curse of the law is we are spiritually dead.. The wage of sin is death.

the first thing we need saved from is out sin debt, our curse. or our condemnation. this is called Justification

before this happens. nothing else matters.

After this happen. God is spending the rest of our lives growing us in him (sanctification)

He is not really teaching about them,. He is asking about them/. If they say they have faith, but has no works. can THAT faith save them



You example is not correct. The example you used shows a future possibility

James spoke of a past action that was already completed.

the people James are calling out already said they had faith

If I said I had a paying job, but I do not work. can that Job sustain me

so in this example. I claimed I had a job, but reality is I do not go to that job, and am not working.. so since I am not working and not getting paid. can that Job that I claimed I had sustain me financially

of course not.. Because while I said I had a job, the reality is I did not.

Hope this helps explain as it is the same

1. a person said they had faith (does not mean they did)
2. All people who have faith will work
3. These people have no work (hence,. like the person who had no job)
4. So can this stated faith they claim they have save them?

the answer in both examples is no


agree. and what I said is true

they said they had faith.. I showed what this meant in the greek.

good is not in the greek. nor is the word evidence.

not completely

Now this is saying something totally different than what James said. James did not say anything even close to this

His point is about the faith. can that faith they said they had save them

its not about works. it about faith.

is your faith real, living, or is it dead.

I can not look at you and determine if you have saving faith or not.. I do not know your life.

But you can test your own faith,. are you a hearer not a doer. or are you a hearer and a doer.







And a dead faith can not save, because it is not living

We are saved by grace through faith not works.

So if works are required. then James is contradicting paul. there is no way to get around this

No

Now your adding to the text something James is not saying



correct.

trye faith works

so a person with living faith is saved by grace.

the result of that faith and salvation is good works.

yes. if you stopped here we would be in 100 % agreement

No. here is where you get off track

we are justified by Grace through faith not works

We can not lose justification with a lack of works. if works can not save us.

it is an apposed saying

You can not earn salvation by works. but if you do not do works, you will lose salvation. those are contradictory terms.



how good is good enough. how much obedience saved, how much disobedience disqualifies us.

going off of what you just said here. You need to answer those questions. Or you can never know if you worked hard enough. you could never be secure

a dog is an unbeliever

he can play a different creature. and even act that way, but he is still a dog

a dog will return to his vomit because he is a dog.

I do not see anything about the tax collector in Matt 18

I understand what you're saying....
you believe James is referring to a CLAIMED faith
and THAT CLAIMED faith cannot save.
It's not that I don't understand your point.

But there are too many other verses in James that contradict what you believe.

In James 1:22 James tells us not to be only hearers of the word but doers of the word.

1:25 says to be an effectual doer.

1:27 we're instructed to visit orphans and widows and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
(repeating Matthew 25, Jesus' instructions).


Verse 2:15-16 He teaches that we're to clothe and feed and not just say GO IN PEACE. IOW,,,put our faith to work.

2:17: Faith without works is dead,,,,being by itself. Faith by itself is dead if not accompanied by works.

2:20 Faith without works is useless.

2:21 Abraham was justified by works when offering Isaac.

2:22 Faith functions with works. As a result of Abraham's work...faith was perfected.


In view of all the other statements of his...we can understand that FAITH without works is a dead faith.
NOT THAT faith (just the claim of faith).

Faith,,,real faith,,,without works is a dead faith being by itself.
IOW...faith, by itself,,,,is useless,,,,is must be accompanied by good deeds/works.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus KNOWS everything you will ever do

You can not surprise him when you do good. or when you do bad. he already knew.

lol..

Jesus is telling us so we can know and understand

Jesus already knows.

do you even Know God and all of his attributes?

How does God know we will obey Him? Was not really a question.
My bad. Just wanted to point out that we're not Calvinists and retain our free will after salvation.

 

[Behold]

Knowledge of Greek is vital in truly understanding the NT.

Knowledge of koine greek is not vital for anything, other then trying to deny the bible, and set yourself above it as a (pretend) authority over it.
Koine Greek is an almost dead language for a reason.
Most Bibles are in English, because English is the universal language currency of the world.
God knew it would be, so, in God's Foreknowledge He prepared for it, using English bibles as the "commen" and accepted.

So, if you want learn the word of God, you dont try to learn a mostly dead language........what you do is what Paul told real Chrisitans to do..
You "Discern the Scriptures" and you use an English Language bible.

"well behold, what if you dont speak english"...........well then, get a bible in your language, but do not waste time with Greek Lexicons.

Trust the Bible, as its God's word.

Are there bad bibles?
Of course......and there is a way to discover which......but that's another Thread's topic.

Reader, there is nothing more carnal or more fake, then someone who is on a Forum, or in a Pulpit, who is correcting the bible with the "Koine Greek" and they dont even read K.Greek or speak it......and if they do, its barely.. and they are certainly not fluent.

So, when you find that one, you have found a self righteous, pretender.

 

[Johann]

Excellent work! This version of yours takes in Repentance and the Greek language. Knowledge of Greek is vital in truly understanding the NT.

The only way I can harmonize all these seemingly paradoxical verses is that it takes a lot to lose one's salvation. It will take a persistent, unyielding, open, unremitting, incorrigible, raging, assault on Christianity to actually lose one's salvation. That possibility is so remote that for all intents and purposes it can be said that our salvation is assured.

Keep the Faith!!!

Shalom to you and family and God bless you brother.

Johann.

 

[synergy]

I said more than that, but thank you for proving I did comment on them.

Whatever

You say enough every time you talk. Enough to know you’re not someone I would go to for any scriptural knowledge. Or any guidance.

But thats beside the point

Good day,

You didn't answer if you believe Paul when he said that the Nations as doers of the Law will be justified. If you can't answer that then of course you will not seek guidance from me.

 

[Dizerner]

You didn't answer if you believe Paul when he said that the Nations as doers of the Law will be justified. If you can't answer that then of course you will not seek guidance from me.

Paul was giving a hypothetical to which he ended "by the works of the Law NO FLESH shall be justified, and EVERY MOUTH be stopped." It was a hypothetical perfection no human ever reaches.

 

[Dizerner]

He was never saved.

I disagree.

He was told to rejoice his name was written in the Lamb's book of life and that one of twelve thrones awaited him.

God would not empower a sinner and traitor with apostolic authority to cast out demons, to do miracles and preach the Gospel.

30 The man answered and said to them, "Why, this is a marvelous thing, that you do not know where He is from;
yet He has opened my eyes!
31 "Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him.
32 "Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind.
33 "If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing." (Jn. 9:30-33 NKJ)

 

[Johann]

Knowledge of koine greek is not vital for anything, other then trying to deny the bible, and set yourself above it as a (pretend) authority over it.
Koine Greek is an almost dead language for a reason.
Most Bibles are in English, because English is the universal language currency of the world.
God knew it would be, so, in God's Foreknowledge He prepared for it, using English bibles as the "commen" and accepted.

So, if you want learn the word of God, you dont try to learn a mostly dead language........what you do is what Paul told real Chrisitans to do..
You "Discern the Scriptures" and you use an English Language bible.

"well behold, what if you dont speak english"...........well then, get a bible in your language, but do not waste time with Greek Lexicons.

Trust the Bible, as its God's word.

Are there bad bibles?
Of course......and there is a way to discover which......but that's another Thread's topic.

Reader, there is nothing more carnal or more fake, then someone who is on a Forum, or in a Pulpit, who is correcting the bible with the "Koine Greek" and they dont even read K.Greek or speak it......and if they do, its barely.. and they are certainly not fluent.

So, when you find that one, you have found a self righteous, pretender.

Koine Greek: What is Biblical Greek (And Where Can I Learn?)

Discover the fascinating world of Koine Greek, the language of the New Testament. Learn its historical significance, basic features, and why understanding it can unlock deeper insights.

www.bartehrman.com

Biblical and Liturgical Greek (Koinē)

Koine Greek - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dead in terms of native use, but not obsolete
Koine Greek was the common lingua franca of the eastern Mediterranean and the Roman Empire roughly from 300 BCE to 300 CE, and it evolved naturally from Classical Attic Greek. It eventually gave rise to Byzantine Greek and then Modern Greek. While no one speaks Koine Greek as their mother tongue today, it is not "dead" in the sense of being unused. In fact, it is widely read, studied, taught, and even spoken in academic and liturgical settings.

2. Liturgical and scholarly use
Koine Greek is actively used in Eastern Orthodox churches, where the New Testament and Septuagint are read aloud in liturgical services in their original form. Scholars of the Bible, ancient history, and theology also continue to use Koine Greek for textual criticism, translation, and historical research. In that way, Koine is a "dead" language that lives on through rigorous use.

3. Students actively speak and write Koine Greek today
There is a growing movement in universities, seminaries, and language programs (e.g., Polis Institute in Jerusalem, BLC in North Carolina) to revive spoken Koine Greek for teaching and immersion purposes, just as is done with Latin. This is not revival as a native tongue, but it reflects the vitality of Koine as a learnable and usable language.

4. The language has not changed and remains fixed
Because it is no longer evolving through use by native speakers, Koine Greek remains fixed in its historical grammar and vocabulary. This is an advantage for exegetical and theological work, because it allows students of Scripture to work within a relatively stable linguistic framework.


Yes, Koine Greek is technically a dead language since it has no native speakers. Yet it is very much alive in scholarly, religious, and educational contexts, especially for students of the New Testament, Septuagint, early Church Fathers, and Hellenistic Judaism.

Get your facts right before labeling others as "self righteous pretenders"

J.

 

[synergy]

Knowledge of koine greek is not vital for anything, other then trying to deny the bible, and set yourself above it as a (pretend) authority over it.
Koine Greek is an almost dead language for a reason.
Most Bibles are in English, because English is the universal language currency of the world.
God knew it would be, so, in God's Foreknowledge He prepared for it, using English bibles as the "commen" and accepted.

So, if you want learn the word of God, you dont try to learn a mostly dead language........what you do is what Paul told real Chrisitans to do..
You "Discern the Scriptures" and you use an English Language bible.

"well behold, what if you dont speak english"...........well then, get a bible in your language, but do not waste time with Greek Lexicons.

Trust the Bible, as its God's word.

Are there bad bibles?
Of course......and there is a way to discover which......but that's another Thread's topic.

Reader, there is nothing more carnal or more fake, then someone who is on a Forum, or in a Pulpit, who is correcting the bible with the "Koine Greek" and they dont even read K.Greek or speak it......and if they do, its barely.. and they are certainly not fluent.

So, when you find that one, you have found a self righteous, pretender.

Let me present you with the facts:

1. There are presently 100's of differing English Bibles all claiming represent the NT. Did God preordain that? On the other hand, there is amazing commonality within the Koine Greek Text.
2. Which English Bible did you select to trust?
3. How do you decide which Bible is correct?
4. Look at the results. There are 100's of English-speaking conflicting Denominations around the world. Did God preordain that? That was not the case during Christianity's first 1000 years.
5. Koine Greek was vital enough for people to learn it in order to create their own translated version of it.
6. Koine Greek is not too different than Modern Greek.
7. Koine Greek was preordained by God to spread the Trinitarian Faith. Notice the dirt-poor knowledge of Greek that JWs possess. See the link below.
8. etc....

Thread 'The Predestination of the Greek OT, the Greek NT, and the Greek Language for the revealing of the Holy Trinity.'

Mar 8, 2025

Belief in the Holy Trinity was not a human invention but was predestined by God, carefully prepared through history, language, and culture. The Greek language, the Greek OT (Septuagint), and Hellenistic Jewish thought all point to a divine setup for revealing the Holy Trinity in the fullness of time.

God Prepared Greek as the Perfect Theological Tool – Long before Christ, God orchestrated events so that Greek would become the dominant language of the ancient world. This wasn’t random. Greek had the precise vocabulary necessary to express complex theological truths, ensuring that the...

• synergy

• 
• 

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh the irony. You filter scripture through the lens of works-righteousness which explains your eisegesis. I properly harmonize scripture with scripture (hermeneutics) before reaching my conclusion on doctrine (2 Timothy 2:15) and I squirm around nothing. You just don't understand.

"YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND".

§Right mailmandan.

ONLY YOU understand.
Only you have everything in the NT figured out correctly.

All those THEOLOGIANS that do not agree with you are just plain dumb and cannot understand what YOU can understand.
All those Apostles Jesus taught just did not understand Him....
or, better yet, Jesus was unable to communicate what He wanted to teach.
He needs persons such as yourself to HARMONIZE scripture...
because some are just too difficult to accept when a person is against good work for salvation
and
he wants to believe he can never lose salvation---for whatever reason, I'm not here to judge.


I haven't seen ONE verse harmonized correctly in all these years.

What I DO see is a person that has come to some conclusion about works and OSAS...both wrong, BTW,,,,and who will wiggle his way out of verses that DO NOT SUPPORT his cause any which way he can.

And with that...
'night.

 

[Johann]

Let me present you with the facts:

1. There are presently 100's of differing English Bibles all claiming represent the NT. Did God preordain that? On the other hand, there is amazing commonality within the Koine Greek Text.
2. Which English Bible did you select to trust?
3. How do you decide which Bible is correct?
4. Look at the results. There are 100's of English-speaking conflicting Denominations around the world. Did God preordain that? That was not the case during Christianity's first 1000 years.
5. Koine Greek was vital enough for people to learn it in order to create their own translated version of it.
6. Koine Greek is not too different than Modern Greek.
7. Koine Greek was preordained by God to spread the Trinitarian Faith. Notice the dirt-poor knowledge of Greek that JWs possess. See the link below.
8. etc....

Thread 'The Predestination of the Greek OT, the Greek NT, and the Greek Language for the revealing of the Holy Trinity.'

Mar 8, 2025

Belief in the Holy Trinity was not a human invention but was predestined by God, carefully prepared through history, language, and culture. The Greek language, the Greek OT (Septuagint), and Hellenistic Jewish thought all point to a divine setup for revealing the Holy Trinity in the fullness of time.

God Prepared Greek as the Perfect Theological Tool – Long before Christ, God orchestrated events so that Greek would become the dominant language of the ancient world. This wasn’t random. Greek had the precise vocabulary necessary to express complex theological truths, ensuring that the...

• synergy

• 
• 

Much appreciated brother.

Johann.

 

[synergy]

Much appreciated brother.

Johann.

Those who truly wish to know what the Bible says will appreciate your translation work, as I do.
Nay Sayers are just speaking out of ignorance.
Shalom to you and your Family.
Keep the Faith!!!

 

[synergy]

Paul was giving a hypothetical to which he ended "by the works of the Law NO FLESH shall be justified, and EVERY MOUTH be stopped." It was a hypothetical perfection no human ever reaches.

Rom 2:13-16 does answer the question about what happens to all those people who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel. I don't think Paul would make mention of how Nations will be judged according to the Gospel and then pull the rug from under their feet.

(Rom 2:16) in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

[GodsGrace]

Those who truly wish to know what the Bible says will appreciate your translation work, as I do.
Nay Sayers are just speaking out of ignorance.
Shalom to you and your Family.
Keep the Faith!!!

I'm not a nay sayer.
I'm not ignorant.
I have to agree that THE GREEK doesn't help much or we'd all agree !

Take a word...look it up...
Most times there will be 2 or 3 meanings, or even more.
A person can choose the meaning that most fits what they believe.

What does help, at times, is how the word is used in other passages, and then compare.
But that has nothing to do with Greek.

Now,,,if a peson is a scholar, and they KNOW Koine Greek...THEN we could start talkin'.

But, get this, James White never agrees with other scholars when they use Greek.
So what good is it??

Just a rhetorical question.
No real need to discuss this.
'night.

 

[GodsGrace]

Rom 2:13-16 does answer the question about what happens to all those people who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel. I don't think Paul would make mention of how Nations will be judged according to the Gospel and then pull the rug from under their feet.

(Rom 2:16) in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Don't forget Romans 1:18-20 (?).
This is overlooked and answers the same question.

 

[GodsGrace]

Let me present you with the facts:

1. There are presently 100's of differing English Bibles all claiming represent the NT. Did God preordain that? On the other hand, there is amazing commonality within the Koine Greek Text.
2. Which English Bible did you select to trust?
3. How do you decide which Bible is correct?
4. Look at the results. There are 100's of English-speaking conflicting Denominations around the world. Did God preordain that? That was not the case during Christianity's first 1000 years.
5. Koine Greek was vital enough for people to learn it in order to create their own translated version of it.
6. Koine Greek is not too different than Modern Greek.
7. Koine Greek was preordained by God to spread the Trinitarian Faith. Notice the dirt-poor knowledge of Greek that JWs possess. See the link below.
8. etc....

Thread 'The Predestination of the Greek OT, the Greek NT, and the Greek Language for the revealing of the Holy Trinity.'

Mar 8, 2025

Belief in the Holy Trinity was not a human invention but was predestined by God, carefully prepared through history, language, and culture. The Greek language, the Greek OT (Septuagint), and Hellenistic Jewish thought all point to a divine setup for revealing the Holy Trinity in the fullness of time.

God Prepared Greek as the Perfect Theological Tool – Long before Christ, God orchestrated events so that Greek would become the dominant language of the ancient world. This wasn’t random. Greek had the precise vocabulary necessary to express complex theological truths, ensuring that the...

• synergy

• 
• 

PS I do agree that the Greek language is much richer than English and relays better what the writer meant.
English is a poor language...even Italian is better.

 

[synergy]

I'm not a nay sayer.
I'm not ignorant.
I have to agree that THE GREEK doesn't help much or we'd all agree !

Take a word...look it up...
Most times there will be 2 or 3 meanings, or even more.
A person can choose the meaning that most fits what they believe.

What does help, at times, is how the word is used in other passages, and then compare.
But that has nothing to do with Greek.

Now,,,if a peson is a scholar, and they KNOW Koine Greek...THEN we could start talkin'.

But, get this, James White never agrees with other scholars when they use Greek.
So what good is it??

Just a rhetorical question.
No real need to discuss this.
'night.

James White? He's gone on record that he refuses to debate Greek Orthodox Scholars. I'm sure it has to do with their knowledge of Greek and his relative lack of it.

 

[Johann]

I'm not a nay sayer.
I'm not ignorant.
I have to agree that THE GREEK doesn't help much or we'd all agree !

Take a word...look it up...
Most times there will be 2 or 3 meanings, or even more.
A person can choose the meaning that most fits what they believe.

What does help, at times, is how the word is used in other passages, and then compare.
But that has nothing to do with Greek.

Now,,,if a peson is a scholar, and they KNOW Koine Greek...THEN we could start talkin'.

But, get this, James White never agrees with other scholars when they use Greek.
So what good is it??

Just a rhetorical question.
No real need to discuss this.
'night.

Correct, no need to discuss it, you have your calling, and I have mine.

J.