civic
Active Member
And death is also the separation of the soul/spirit from the body. It does not mean cease to exist as the JW heresy teaches.
So yes God the Son did die and the OP is a failure.
Hope this helps !!! @Runningman
Is there a sin sacrifice in Trinitarianism?
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
So yes God the Son did die and the OP is a failure.
Hope this helps !!! @Runningman
Runningman
Active Member
Death means death, not "separation of the soul/spirit" from the body. You can't change it.And death is also the separation of the soul/spirit from the body. It does not mean cease to exist as the JW heresy teaches.
So yes God the Son did die and the OP is a failure.
Hope this helps !!! @Runningman
civic
Active Member
wrong once again as the Greek meaning of the word says exactly what I said.
next fallacy.
unfortunately for you I'm on the side of the truth with Scripture and the biblical definition of the Greek word for death- thanatos.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2288: θάνατος
θάνατος, θανάτου, ὁ (θανεῖν); the Sept. for מָוֶת and מוּת, also for דֶּבֶר pestilence (Winers Grammar, 29 note); (one of the nouns often anarthrous, cf. Winers Grammar, § 19, 1 under the word; (Buttmann, § 124, 8 c.); Grimm, commentary on Sap., p. 59); death;
1. properly, the death of the body, i. e. that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul from the body by which the life on earth is ended: John 11:4 (13); Acts 2:24 (Tr marginal reading ᾅδου) (on this see ὠδίν); Philippians 2:27, 30; Hebrews 7:23; Hebrews 9:15; Revelation 9:6; Revelation 18:8; opposed to ζωή, Romans 8:38; 1 Corinthians 3:22; 2 Corinthians 1:9; Philippians 1:20; with the implied idea of future misery in the state beyond, 1 Corinthians 15:21; 2 Timothy 1:10; Hebrews 2:14f; equivalent to the power of death, 2 Corinthians 4:12. Since the nether world, the abode of the dead, was conceived of as being very dark, χώρα καί σκιά θανάτου (צַלְמָוֶת) is equivalent to the region of thickest darkness, i. e. figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin: Matthew 4:16; Luke 1:79 (from Isaiah 9:2); θάνατος is used of the punishment of Christ, Romans 5:10; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 11:26; Philippians 3:10; Colossians 1:22; Hebrews 2
9),14; σῴζειν τινα ἐκ θανάτου, to free from the fear of death, to enable one to undergo death fearlessly, Hebrews 5:7 (but others besides); ῤύεσθαι ἐκ θανάτου, to deliver from the danger of death, 2 Corinthians 1:10; plural θανατοῖ, deaths (i. e. mortal perils) of various kinds, 2 Corinthians 11:23; περίλυπος ἕως θανάτου, even unto death, i. e. so that I am almost dying of sorrow, Matthew 26:38; Mark 14:34 (λελύπημαι ἕως θανάτου, Jonah 4:9; λύπη ἕως θανάτου, Sir. 37:2, cf, Judges 16:16); μέχρι θανάτου, so as not to refuse to undergo even death, Philippians 2:8; also ἄχρι θανάτου, Revelation 2:10; Revelation 12:11; ἐσφαγμένος εἰς θάνατον, that has received a deadly wound, Revelation 13:3; πληγή θανάτου, a deadly wound (death-stroke, cf. Winer's Grammar, § 34, 3 b.), Revelation 13:3, 12; ἰδεῖν θάνατον, to experience death, Luke 2:26; Hebrews 11:5; also γεύεσθαι θανάτου (see γεύω, 2), Matthew 16:28; Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27; διώκειν τινα ἄχρι θανάτου, even to destruction, Acts 22:4; κατακρίνειν τινα θανάτῳ, to condemn one to death (admortemdamnare, Tacitus), Matthew 20:18 (here Tdf. εἰς θάνατον); Mark 10:33, (see κατακρίνω, a.); πορεύεσθαι εἰς θάνατον, to undergo death, Luke 22:33; παραδιδόναι τινα εἰς θάνατον, that he may be put to death, Matthew 10:21; Mark 13:12; passive, to be given over to the peril of death, 2 Corinthians 4:11; παρέδωκαν ... εἰς κρίμα θανάτου, Luke 24:20; ἀποκτεῖναι τινα ἐν θανάτῳ (a Hebraism (cf. Buttmann, 184 (159f))), Revelation 2:23; Revelation 6:8 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 29 note); αἰτία θανάτου (see αἰτία, 2), Acts 13:28; Acts 28:18; ἄξιον τί θανάτου, some crime worthy of the penalty of death, Acts 23:29; Acts 25:11, 25; (Acts 26:31); Luke 23:15, 22 (here αἴτιον (which see 2 b.) θάνατος); ἔνοχος θανάτου, worthy of punishment by death, Matthew 26:66; Mark 14:64; θανάτῳ τελευτάτω, let him surely be put to death, Matthew 15:4; Mark 7:10, after Exodus 21:17 the Sept. (Hebrew יוּמָת מות); cf. Winers Grammar, § 44 at the end N. 3; (Buttmann, as above); θανάτου ... σταυροῦ, Philippians 2:8; ποιῶ θανάτῳ, by what kind of death, John 12:33; John 18:32; John 21:19. The inevitable necessity of dying, shared alike by all men, takes on in the popular imagination the form of a person, a tyrant, subjugating men to his power and confining them in his dark dominions: Romans 6:9; 1 Corinthians 1526),54,56; Revelation 21:4; Hades is associated with him as his partner: 1 Corinthians 15:55 R G; Revelation 1:18 (on which see κλείς); ,(a) (Psalm 17:5 (); Psalm 114:3 (); Hosea 13:14; Sir. 14:12).
Runningman
Active Member
Simple words don't require an instruction manual of dozens of verses to produce some convoluted meaning that is neither intuitive or explicitly stated in the Bible.wrong once again as the Greek meaning of the word says exactly what I said.
next fallacy.
unfortunately for you I'm on the side of the truth with Scripture and the biblical definition of the Greek word for death- thanatos.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2288: θάνατος
θάνατος, θανάτου, ὁ (θανεῖν); the Sept. for מָוֶת and מוּת, also for דֶּבֶר pestilence (Winers Grammar, 29 note); (one of the nouns often anarthrous, cf. Winers Grammar, § 19, 1 under the word; (Buttmann, § 124, 8 c.); Grimm, commentary on Sap., p. 59); death;
1. properly, the death of the body, i. e. that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul from the body by which the life on earth is ended: John 11:4 (13); Acts 2:24 (Tr marginal reading ᾅδου) (on this see ὠδίν); Philippians 2:27, 30; Hebrews 7:23; Hebrews 9:15; Revelation 9:6; Revelation 18:8; opposed to ζωή, Romans 8:38; 1 Corinthians 3:22; 2 Corinthians 1:9; Philippians 1:20; with the implied idea of future misery in the state beyond, 1 Corinthians 15:21; 2 Timothy 1:10; Hebrews 2:14f; equivalent to the power of death, 2 Corinthians 4:12. Since the nether world, the abode of the dead, was conceived of as being very dark, χώρα καί σκιά θανάτου (צַלְמָוֶת) is equivalent to the region of thickest darkness, i. e. figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin: Matthew 4:16; Luke 1:79 (from Isaiah 9:2); θάνατος is used of the punishment of Christ, Romans 5:10; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 11:26; Philippians 3:10; Colossians 1:22; Hebrews 2
To support your premise, you would need something that states the soul and/or spirit in unconditionally immortal in the first place, which doesn't exist in the Bible.
civic
Active Member
nice dodge
you might as well throw away any dictionary and let acedamia and educators know there is no need for an English dictionary, grammar book to learn the English language and any other Language where you need a dictionary and grammar for that specific language..
you make up your own meaning for words to suit your doctrine- EISEGESIS.
what a complete and utter mess.
Runningman
Active Member
Why would I throw away the English or Greek dictionary when both fully support what I just said and say nothing regarding the theological/philosophical definition of death that you have provided?
Okay, show any example of anyone surviving their death in the Bible if you have a case.
civic
Active Member
no I just provided the greek dictionary/greek lexicon definition for death which you denied.
Runningman
Active Member
You did not. You said death means "separation from God" when that isn't the dictionary definition of death in the Greek nor how it is described in the Bible.
Google translate: θάνατος = death
Meriam-Webster definition of death = a permanent cessation of all vital functions: the end of life
You said it's separation from God... wow... God continued interacting directly with Adam, Eve, and others in the world even after the fall. They were not separated from God in the way you say. Sin is what causes separation from God, not death, and it just means a violation of the law of God. Death means someone isn't alive anymore.
Isaiah 59
2But your iniquities have built barriers
between you and your God,
and your sins have hidden His face from you,
so that He does not hear.
