civic
Well-known member
Nothing there about losing one’s salvation or eternal life
Eternal Security
- Thread starter Ahar
- Start date
Diserner
Well-known member
Diserner
Well-known member
Please read the rest of Hebrews and see the context.
Take off the OSAS lens and just read it.
Hebrews 6, Hebrews 10.
civic
Well-known member
Yep or every single time you don’t act in faith you lose your salvation then get it back again after faith is practiced once again . It becomes work based salvation . God saved you are first but it’s up to you to keep yourself saved. It’s legalism
Last edited:
Overjoyed
Member
Ok then, what exactly sends a person to hell? What guarantees the omission of a man’s or woman’s name from the book of life? What is the ingredient that, mixed with sin, somehow ensures one’s condemnation to the lake of fire? It can't be sinning alone will not do, for as we have seen, sinners of every description have the potential for escaping hell.
8 If we say we have no sin [refusing to admit that we are sinners], we delude and lead ourselves astray, and the Truth [which the Gospel presents] is not in us [does not dwell in our hearts].
9 If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action].
10 If we say (claim) we have not sinned, we contradict His Word and make Him out to be false and a liar, and His Word is not in us [the divine message of the Gospel is not in our hearts]. 1 John 1:8–10
But wait there's more.
The clearest teaching on this subject is conveyed in the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. It is a passage that contains what may be the most familiar verse in the entire New Testament:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. John 3:16–17
What keeps a man from perishing? Jesus did not cite for Nicodemus a list of sins and then add, “As long as a man keeps himself from these, he will not perish.” His only condition was belief in Him.
Notice His next words:
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Look at that verse and answer this question: According to Jesus, what must a person do to keep from being judged for sin? Must he stop doing something? Must he promise to stop doing something? Must he have never done something? The answer is so simple that many stumble all over it without ever seeing it. All Jesus requires is that the individual “believe in” Him.
Look again. What is true of someone who has already been judged? Did he commit an unpardonable sin of some sort? No! He is judged because he has “not believed in” the Son of God.
8 If we say we have no sin [refusing to admit that we are sinners], we delude and lead ourselves astray, and the Truth [which the Gospel presents] is not in us [does not dwell in our hearts].
9 If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action].
10 If we say (claim) we have not sinned, we contradict His Word and make Him out to be false and a liar, and His Word is not in us [the divine message of the Gospel is not in our hearts]. 1 John 1:8–10
But wait there's more.
The clearest teaching on this subject is conveyed in the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. It is a passage that contains what may be the most familiar verse in the entire New Testament:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. John 3:16–17
What keeps a man from perishing? Jesus did not cite for Nicodemus a list of sins and then add, “As long as a man keeps himself from these, he will not perish.” His only condition was belief in Him.
Notice His next words:
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Look at that verse and answer this question: According to Jesus, what must a person do to keep from being judged for sin? Must he stop doing something? Must he promise to stop doing something? Must he have never done something? The answer is so simple that many stumble all over it without ever seeing it. All Jesus requires is that the individual “believe in” Him.
Look again. What is true of someone who has already been judged? Did he commit an unpardonable sin of some sort? No! He is judged because he has “not believed in” the Son of God.
Obadiah
Well-known member
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but here is the bottom line for me. Since people on both sides of this issue agree for the most part that we are saved by faith. But those who believe salvation can be lost often ask this question about the relationship between salvation and faith. That question goes like this,
If our salvation is gained through believing in Christ, doesn’t it make sense that salvation would be lost if we quit believing?
Or to put it another way,
If Christians lose faith to the point that they no longer recognize Christ’s death on the cross as the payment for sin, doesn’t it follow that they would lose their salvation as well?
Or If we look at what the Bible says,
“He who believes has eternal life.” John 6:47 Does it not follow then that he who does not believe does not have eternal life?
Along the same lines, some have argued that the term believe, when referring to salvation, is always used in the present tense, as is the case in John 6:47. The implication is that a believer is one who is always believing. Therefore, to stop believing is to disqualify oneself from the family of believers.
As convincing as these arguments may sound, they are shot through with problems. The Bible clearly teaches that God’s love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand.
Now I know some of us aren't real keen on God's love and have a really hard time seeing this, but it's in the Bible.
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28
Then there is Jesus’ parable about a shepherd who leaves 99 sheep in the fold to go in search of one that had wandered away. Luke chapter 15
At the very outset Paul makes an important theological point. The reason (“because of ...”) God made us alive was His “great love.” Why is that so important? Because right up front we discover the reason or motivation behind our salvation. Paul does not say, “Because of our great abiding faith with which we trusted Him.” Faith is not the reason God saves men. Love is the reason.
If our salvation is gained through believing in Christ, doesn’t it make sense that salvation would be lost if we quit believing?
Or to put it another way,
If Christians lose faith to the point that they no longer recognize Christ’s death on the cross as the payment for sin, doesn’t it follow that they would lose their salvation as well?
Or If we look at what the Bible says,
“He who believes has eternal life.” John 6:47 Does it not follow then that he who does not believe does not have eternal life?
Along the same lines, some have argued that the term believe, when referring to salvation, is always used in the present tense, as is the case in John 6:47. The implication is that a believer is one who is always believing. Therefore, to stop believing is to disqualify oneself from the family of believers.
As convincing as these arguments may sound, they are shot through with problems. The Bible clearly teaches that God’s love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand.
Now I know some of us aren't real keen on God's love and have a really hard time seeing this, but it's in the Bible.
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28
Then there is Jesus’ parable about a shepherd who leaves 99 sheep in the fold to go in search of one that had wandered away. Luke chapter 15
At the very outset Paul makes an important theological point. The reason (“because of ...”) God made us alive was His “great love.” Why is that so important? Because right up front we discover the reason or motivation behind our salvation. Paul does not say, “Because of our great abiding faith with which we trusted Him.” Faith is not the reason God saves men. Love is the reason.
Obadiah
Well-known member
But our way is not that of those who draw back to eternal misery (perdition) and are utterly destroyed, but we are of those who believe [who cleave to and trustin and rely on God through Jesus Christ, the Messiah] and by faith preserve the soul. Hebrews 10:39
Very encouraging verse showing how we persevere.
Ezra
Well-known member
you have more non Bibibcal excuses than carter had peanuts . i have out lined true eternal security. which is not a excuse to live how one wants.. our salvation is kept by the power of God.. at no time have i nor will i say if you fall into sin never repent you will still gfo to heaven.. but it is imo a true blue born again child of God will repent. there is consequences for our actions.. David was a man after God own heart.. but his actions cost him dearly.
i certainly hope when you go to sleep you dont lose your salvation
Obadiah
Well-known member
I call what you're talking about "Consequences". David had quite a few of those. Also I believe you can be obedient and have a good close relationship with God. Or you can be disobedient and have a not so good relationship with God. The book of Psalms talks quite a bit about that.
God's way is always... better. If the Israelites had just listened to God in the wilderness they could have gone through it in six days instead of 40 years.
Yes it isnt an excuse to live how you want, I agree. And eternal life propels a believer to be faithful. If we fall into sin as a believer, there is consequences...rebuke, admonishing, loss of rewards, maybe kicked from your church. Maybe God will take a believers life to stop their sin affecting others.
This doesn't mean that a believer won't fall into sin..won't go back to old ways. They may. But they will face the consequences.
Ezra
Well-known member
what does that say about us?
e v e
Well-known member
we are all still in egypt.
Ezra
Well-known member
its not a jingle its Bible but Not in the manner you think it is
Ezra
Well-known member
no doubt
dwight92070
Well-known member
1 John 5:11-12 - "And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son, He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
As long as we abide in Christ, we have that eternal life that is in Him. But when we choose to no longer abide in Him, we no longer have that eternal life that abides in Him. Many true Christians have chosen to turn back and they not only lose Christ, but they lose the eternal life which is in Him. The New Testament is filled with examples and warnings not to turn back.
1 Tim. 1:5-7; 18-20 " ... some men have STRAYED from these things (that means they HAD the truth, but then turned away from it) ... some men have REJECTED faith and a good conscience and HAVE SUFFERED SHIPWRECK IN REGARD TO THEIR FAITH. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme". We are not told if these two men ever came back to the Lord.
1 Tim. 4:1-3 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times SOME WILL FALL AWAY FROM THE FAITH, ..." You don't fall away from something that you never had.
1 Tim. 5:8 "If anyone (Paul is speaking of a Christian here) does not provide for his own ... HE HAS DENIED THE FAITH AND IS WORSE THAN AN UNBELIEVER." You don't deny something that you never had.
1 Tim, 6:9-10 " ... those who want to get rich FALL into temptation and a snare ... which PLUNGE MEN INTO RUIN AND DESTRUCTION ... AND HAVE WANDERED AWAY FROM THE FAITH." You don't wander away from something that you never had.
1 Tim. 6:20 "Avoid worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called 'knowledge' - WHICH SOME HAVE PROFESSED AND THUS GONE ASTRAY FROM THE TRUTH." You don't go astray from the truth, if you never had the truth.
2 Tim. 2:12-13 "IF we endure, we will also reign with Him ... " (IF WE DON'T ENDURE, WE WON'T); "IF WE DENY HIM, HE ALSO WILL DENY US; ... "; IF WE ARE FAITHLESS, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. God is always faithful, but if we deny Him and reject our faith, He is under NO OBLIGATION TO SAVE US. This verse does not say that God is faithful to save someone who walks away from Him.
2 Tim. 2:16-18 " ... Hymanaeus and Philetus, WHO HAVE GONE ASTRAY FROM THE TRUTH ..."
2 Tim. 4:3-4 " ... wanting to have their ears tickled ... AND WILL TURN AWAY THEIR EARS FROM THE TRUTH AND WILL TURN ASIDE TO MYTHS."
If we are genuinely saved, but sometime later we reject Jesus and the gospel, we are NOT FORCED BY GOD TO REMAIN SAVED. If that were true, then every saved person LOSES THEIR FREE WILL - i.e. they no longer have the freedom to reject Jesus - He would be forcing them to stay saved whether they want that or not!
Remember when MANY of His disciples left Jesus? - John 6:66 He turned to the twelve and asked, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" They STILL HAD THE FREE WILL TO WALK AWAY FROM HIM, just like MANY did in verse 66.
That hasn't changed, God will not keep you, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE KEPT.
Some say that if you fall away, that you were never truly saved in the first place. That may be true for some people, but not all. Many were genuinely saved and serving and following and abiding in Him - and then, for whatever reason, decide that they no longer want to continue with Him and they turn their backs on Him - and yes, when they turn their backs on the only one who has eternal life, they lose their salvation and eternal life.
S
As long as we abide in Christ, we have that eternal life that is in Him. But when we choose to no longer abide in Him, we no longer have that eternal life that abides in Him. Many true Christians have chosen to turn back and they not only lose Christ, but they lose the eternal life which is in Him. The New Testament is filled with examples and warnings not to turn back.
1 Tim. 1:5-7; 18-20 " ... some men have STRAYED from these things (that means they HAD the truth, but then turned away from it) ... some men have REJECTED faith and a good conscience and HAVE SUFFERED SHIPWRECK IN REGARD TO THEIR FAITH. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme". We are not told if these two men ever came back to the Lord.
1 Tim. 4:1-3 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times SOME WILL FALL AWAY FROM THE FAITH, ..." You don't fall away from something that you never had.
1 Tim. 5:8 "If anyone (Paul is speaking of a Christian here) does not provide for his own ... HE HAS DENIED THE FAITH AND IS WORSE THAN AN UNBELIEVER." You don't deny something that you never had.
1 Tim, 6:9-10 " ... those who want to get rich FALL into temptation and a snare ... which PLUNGE MEN INTO RUIN AND DESTRUCTION ... AND HAVE WANDERED AWAY FROM THE FAITH." You don't wander away from something that you never had.
1 Tim. 6:20 "Avoid worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called 'knowledge' - WHICH SOME HAVE PROFESSED AND THUS GONE ASTRAY FROM THE TRUTH." You don't go astray from the truth, if you never had the truth.
2 Tim. 2:12-13 "IF we endure, we will also reign with Him ... " (IF WE DON'T ENDURE, WE WON'T); "IF WE DENY HIM, HE ALSO WILL DENY US; ... "; IF WE ARE FAITHLESS, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. God is always faithful, but if we deny Him and reject our faith, He is under NO OBLIGATION TO SAVE US. This verse does not say that God is faithful to save someone who walks away from Him.
2 Tim. 2:16-18 " ... Hymanaeus and Philetus, WHO HAVE GONE ASTRAY FROM THE TRUTH ..."
2 Tim. 4:3-4 " ... wanting to have their ears tickled ... AND WILL TURN AWAY THEIR EARS FROM THE TRUTH AND WILL TURN ASIDE TO MYTHS."
If we are genuinely saved, but sometime later we reject Jesus and the gospel, we are NOT FORCED BY GOD TO REMAIN SAVED. If that were true, then every saved person LOSES THEIR FREE WILL - i.e. they no longer have the freedom to reject Jesus - He would be forcing them to stay saved whether they want that or not!
Remember when MANY of His disciples left Jesus? - John 6:66 He turned to the twelve and asked, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" They STILL HAD THE FREE WILL TO WALK AWAY FROM HIM, just like MANY did in verse 66.
That hasn't changed, God will not keep you, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE KEPT.
Some say that if you fall away, that you were never truly saved in the first place. That may be true for some people, but not all. Many were genuinely saved and serving and following and abiding in Him - and then, for whatever reason, decide that they no longer want to continue with Him and they turn their backs on Him - and yes, when they turn their backs on the only one who has eternal life, they lose their salvation and eternal life.
S
e v e
Well-known member
i would like to know when that exact term appeared, and by whom who belonged to what sect.
e v e
Well-known member
and keep in mind that i understand from Him not just the 144k but also very many hopefully most of jacob will be rescued out of here... so I am not objecting to His knowing who they are... since all of His are in His book of life..and He will save us from here.
the term is misleading then... since it hints one is saved when we won't be until we are out of this fleshbody.
Last edited:
Similar threads
