Yes, 'taking me home' .. is what I meant as you say. He can take us out of here if we keep sinning without repentance.. yes.
Eternal Security
- Thread starter Ahar
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Yes, 'taking me home' .. is what I meant as you say. He can take us out of here if we keep sinning without repentance.. yes.
Diserner
Well-known member
OSAS in my experience is a very deep stronghold.
I can only recommend printing out the warning passages, fasting for a week, and as you read them every day pray this:
"God please show me whether these warnings are just about rewards, or even my salvation?"
He will be faithful to answer and tear that evil stronghold down.
I can only recommend printing out the warning passages, fasting for a week, and as you read them every day pray this:
"God please show me whether these warnings are just about rewards, or even my salvation?"
He will be faithful to answer and tear that evil stronghold down.
civic
Well-known member
I can recommend believing Jesus promise of eternal life which never ends . Read them and pray
everyday
Diserner
Well-known member
I can recommend believing Jesus promise of eternal life which never ends . Read them and pray
If you don't specifically ask God in a serious way whether it's true, the stronghold will remain.
civic
Well-known member
Oh I have since 1980 . it’s the old devils trick did God say “. “ to get one to doubt His promises. Just like he did in the garden.
Ahar
Active member
Well there it is there, pretty hard to get around that one. When we mess up, Jesus is our lawyer. It's like when Satan the accuser of the brethren comes before God and says "Look at that Ahar character, He's down there messing up big time." Then Jesus makes intercession for us And says "Yeah he is but I died for him". Case closed.
Bottom line is where you save to the utmost or did you just get a little taste?
Diserner
Well-known member
God tells us to be persevering in asking him.
Yet you call that "the devil."
What I have found is people think the following is "asking God":
Reading a book.
Arguing online.
Reading the Bible.
None of that is prayer.
Diserner
Well-known member
"Those who COME TO GOD (PRESENT CONTINUOUS TENSE) through him."
Let's include the whole counsel of GOd and not leave out context, shall we?
If God wanted us to believe in ONE-N-DONE, FIRE-N-FORGET, GOOD-TO-GO, salvation, he would:
1. Have no warnings.
2. Have no conditions outside of a one time "SEAL-THE-DEAL."
And yet, this is not what the Bible does, is it.
So people do ridiculous things like say:
1. The warnings only apply to unbelievers.
2. The warnings are just "means" to OSAS.
This is not the honest way to deal with the text.
At all!
Ahar
Active member
I can see how someone could ignore all the warnings and they're just happy they have their fire insurance. And that OSAS To them could be a license to sin. And on top of that I'm sure God would let them go on their merry way. Up to a point that is. Then circumstances can change, like after The Prodigal Son blew all of his inheritance. I'm sure he had a tough time before he ever found himself feeding the pigs.
What I'm saying is there's definitely consequences of playing games with God. It's no fun having Him take you out to the woodshed. What I'm saying is if you're saved and you think you can continue doing life the way you always have you're wrong. To me if you have that kind of attitude you're not really saved you just in it for the fire insurance. Because if you truly understand your salvation you'll love God and want to obey him.
Now I know we all fall short of the glory of God and we know there are provisions for that, He will cleanse us of all unrighteousness but we have to ask 1st John 1:9. That restores our fellowship with him.
I don't look at it as losing our salvation I look at it as having a good relationship with him through our love and obedience. Or a bad relationship by doing our own thing. It's like a two-way street and no matter what direction you're heading you can make a u-turn.
Just like The Prodigal Son when he came to his senses he realized he'd be better off being a slave at his father's house then doing his own thing.
Ezra
Well-known member
its only a strong hold to those who want to use it as a reason ... as if i sin and keep on sinning. i will still go to heaven . that is NOT eternal security. a true Christian will repent (the prodigal son }
John 6:37-40
King James Version
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
if some one is 99% saved they are %100 lost. i have studied the doctrine of eternal security the osas vs osnas both sides has scripturas to back up there doctrine. . Calvinist teach those truly saved will stick with it.. ( P.O.S ) PRESEVERVANCE OF THE SAINTS.. that is about the only thing i agree with in Calvinism, yes all like sheep we have all gone astray. yes Jesus said unless you repent you shall all like wise perish .
i am not one of these that say well if i go back to my old way of life . i will still go to heaven but not have any rewards.. rewards bema seat is completely different from the Judgment seat we see in Revelation . rewards has nothing to do with salvation other than when we get saved. we will have works in our walk...
James 2:14-26
New King James Version
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
last but not least i hope your sitting down . no drinks no food dont want you spitting it out lol.. but the words lose your salvation is not in the Bible nor is the word eternal security... you can rest you do have eternal security .. we can be secure no man can pluck us out of his hand. i am ordained general Baptist they teach you can walk away and be lost again. i teach its a know so salvation you can know that you know that you know beyond a shadow of doubt . you are truly saved
have you ever woke up thinking you lost your salvation in your sleep? if no that is eternal security if yes your a legalist who has to beg and plead to stay saved
Ezra
Well-known member
Just picking up on 'faith without works is dead'..
The context around this is what we do after conversion. Acts of service, having already been converted. Abraham, Rahab..were not saved by their acts of service. They were responding to having been given the free gift of eternal life.
So this is about 'the faith'... The system of service to Jesus. Not 'saving faith'.
A saint can go back to old ways and still be saved. What happened to David? He was an adulterer and murderer. Yes he did come back to faithfulness... But he DID go back to old ways. It can happen.
Eternal security doesn't mean they will be faithful to the end. It means security no matter what.
Yes, God doesn't want us to go back to old ways of course. But there is no guarantee we won't. There is a difference between saved and not faithful and a faithful believer.
An unfaithful saved person can happen. Not that it should..not that they won't be disciplined..but that it can happen.
Ezra
Well-known member
HE repented and your context anogly is wrong
Ezra
Well-known member
wrong wrong
Yea he did come back to faithfulness, but had grievous sin in his life also. The chances are a believer will turn from sin as they go on in the walk, because they have the Holy Spirit.. but it isn't a guarantee.
God doesn't save only those He knows will be faithful to the end. He saves anyone.
Ezra
Well-known member
nothing in this life is a guarantee but our salvation
granted he did he tried to cover up his affair which led to Bathsheba getting pregnant. 2 things that will send you to hell ADULTREY AND MURDER.. paul wrote this
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. i use smoke pot and i loved it if the Holy spirit is in a person .when we sin there is conviction . it cost David a lot just from his fling with Bathsheba .. look at Abraham he had sarah lie.. lot got Drunk had incest with his daughter, he also offered his daughters to be raped . yet the Bible calls him just Lot who vexed his righteous soul.
i am not saying after salvation your so secure that you can live the old life. one a person who fails to repent could have never been saved
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Ya never saved in the first place happens of course. But not with Lot or David or Abraham.
Ezra
Well-known member
be honest would you say a man like Lot in todays world would be saved ?
You cant judge by their behaviour. It's whether they believed in the Messiah. Nothing more nothing less.
John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 8:40 etc..
'turning from sin' can only happen after already being converted. It can't be part of conversion.
Good behaviour has zero to do with receiving eternal life.
I need to have another look at Lot whether it indicates he was a man of God or not. Converted or not..but there are other biblical characters who did struggle ...commit grievous sin who were converted before doing it. So the point remains. A saved person may not persevere to the end. Doesnt mean 'never saved to begin with'
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