Eternal Security

[Parker]

But what If I stumble, what if I fall? Not to worry Jesus saves us and Jesus keeps us.

Now to Him Who is able to keep you without stumbling or slipping or falling, and to present [you] unblemished (blameless and faultless) before the presence of His glory in triumphant joy and exultation[with unspeakable, ecstatic delight]—
To the one only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory(splendor), majesty, might and dominion, and power and authority, before all time and now and forever(unto all the ages of eternity). Amen (so be it). Jude 24–25

Here is what the Bible says about how God is able to keep us from stumbling:

Now to Him Who is able to strengthen you in the faith which is in accordance with my Gospel and the preaching of(concerning) Jesus Christ (the Messiah), according to the revelation(the unveiling) of the mystery of the plan of redemption which was kept in silence and secret for long ages, Rom. 16:25

Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the[action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carryout His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams] Eph. 3:20

Left to ourselves, we would stumble so as to fall finally and forever. But the issue at stake isn’t whether you and I are able to persevere but whether God s able to preserve and keep us. Here we see that whereas we might be inclined to choose a sinful course of action that would ultimately lead to our stumbling, God is able to intervene and override our rebellious determination and to cause us to stand blameless before him with great joy.

But [you were purchased] with the precious blood of Christ (the Messiah), like that of a [sacrificial] lamb without blemish or spot. 1 Peter 1:19

It is because God is able to do this that he is worthy of “glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time, now and forever.” Our security is not dependent on our ability, but on God’s. Our security is not dependent on feeling secure or saved. Security is an objective fact, not a subjective feeling.

Note finally the connection between Jude 24 and 25. How do we know God is able? We know because he is the God of glory, majesty, dominion and authority. If God can’t keep his own he is hardly worthy of that description and His Plan of Salvation is weak. If God can’t preserve his people he is to be pitied, not praised.

 

[Doug Brents]

So one more time here's the Bible definition.

So what does the Bible mean by believe? The New Testament Greek word pisteuo (believe) means to “be convinced of something” or “give credence to.” We must be convinced that it is an historical fact that more than 2,000 years ago Jesus Christ died on a cross and rose the third day.

That is a wrong definition. Pisteuo is defined by God as being the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." This is much more than being convinced of something or giving credence to it.

I would imagine after 32 pages of posts we would have a good understanding Internal security and really not need to go back over everything again.

It is clear that if for the first 32 pages of posts you held to the false definition above, then there does need to be more discussion.

 

[Seabass]

That's a real stretch. Your beliefs are your beliefs don't add me to the equation. How many times are we going to go through the definition of belief?

So one more time here's the Bible definition.

So what does the Bible mean by believe? The New Testament Greek word pisteuo (believe) means to “be convinced of something” or “give credence to.” We must be convinced that it is an historical fact that more than 2,000 years ago Jesus Christ died on a cross and rose the third day.

I would imagine after 32 pages of posts we would have a good understanding Internal security and really not need to go back over everything again.

You posted the following:
"Everyone that ever was saved were living in disobedience until they believed."

The implication is everyone is living in disobedience until they obey by believing. Again, Jn 3:36 "believeth" is set in contrast to "obeyeth not" for believing is obeying.

Liddell & Scott: pisteuo (believe) can mean “to comply” (1869, 1273).

J. H. Thayer: pisieuo - a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah-the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ (1958, 511).

W. E. Vine: the noun pistis involves “a personal surrender” to Christ (1992, 286).

 

[Diserner]

Among the many passages where we find the apostle’s emphasis on God’s faithfulness to sustain and preserve his people, two are in Paul’s correspondence to the Thessalonians:

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” 1 Thess. 5:23–24

Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one. And we have confidence in the Lord about you, that you are doing and will do the things that we command. May the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God and to the steadfastness of Christ. 2 Thess. 3:1–5

 

[Handaan]

That is a wrong definition. Pisteuo is defined by God as being the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." This is much more than being convinced of something or giving credence to it.

It is clear that if for the first 32 pages of posts you held to the false definition above, then there does need to be more discussion.

More discussion is a lot different than going back over everything again. The definition I posted works for me.

 

[Handaan]

Among the many passages where we find the apostle’s emphasis on God’s faithfulness to sustain and preserve his people, two are in Paul’s correspondence to the Thessalonians:

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” 1 Thess. 5:23–24

Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one. And we have confidence in the Lord about you, that you are doing and will do the things that we command. May the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God and to the steadfastness of Christ. 2 Thess. 3:1–5

Amen

 

[Parker]

Among the many passages where we find the apostle’s emphasis on God’s faithfulness to sustain and preserve his people, two are in Paul’s correspondence to the Thessalonians:

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” 1 Thess. 5:23–24

Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one. And we have confidence in the Lord about you, that you are doing and will do the things that we command. May the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God and to the steadfastness of Christ. 2 Thess. 3:1–5

Those two verses tell it like it is. If we must first remain faithful, only after which God promises to be faithful on our behalf, why need he bother at all? That is to say, if we are not only responsible but ultimately capable of keeping ourselves in faith and obedience without God’s faithful presence to preserve us there, his action is rendered moot.

There is no need for the promise of divine faithfulness if human faithfulness will get us by. We must never forget that the faithfulness required of us—and make no mistake: it is required—is precisely what God is faithful to provide.

A good study on sanctification would help clear up the confusion I see in this thread. Just saying.

 

[Seabass]

Jude 1:24
"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,"

The book of Jude is warning Christians of false teachers and falling into apostasy. (No need for warnings if falling is impossible) Who then can save the Christian from falling and going into apostasy?


God is ABLE but God does NOT unconditionally keep Christians from falling against their will. The Christian must contend for the faith (v3) and by faithfully keeping God's word, in that sense, God is able to keep the Christian from falling. The Christian must be "building up yourselves on your most holy faith" and "keep yourself in the love of God" v21. God provides a way for the Christian to not stumble and fall but it is up to the Christian to heed to God's instructions, if not, the Christian will fall.

This verse is NOT saying in any sense that God does everything to keep the Christian from falling and the Christian does nothing, that the Christian has no responsibility himself for not falling. Again, the Christian must contend for the faith, build up himself on the most holy faith and keep himself in the love of God and those who do will not stumble.

One commentator put it this way "If Christians heed the instructions of their Lord and walk in the light as he is in the light, they will not stumble; and, for those who thus walk, the Lord indeed can and does guard them from stumbling."

 

[Anja]

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. Phil. 1:6

Yes, whatever God starts, he finishes! That is Paul’s point in Philippians 1:6. The “good work” initiated in the hearts of the Philippian believers will not fall short of the final goal. The new birth, wrought in them through the Holy Spirit, will not suffer interruption and fail to produce the good works and obedience that testify to the reality of what they claim.

God promises that he “will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ,” which means that whatever is required along the pathway of our Christian lives, whatever faith is needed, whatever obedience is required, whatever repentance is called for, and whatever endurance we must display, God will work in us through his Spirit so that we will stand before his presence, wholly sanctified in body, soul, and spirit, blameless and without reproach.

 

[Anja]

Jude 1:24
"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,"

The book of Jude is warning Christians of false teachers and falling into apostasy. (No need for warnings if falling is impossible) Who then can save the Christian from falling and going into apostasy?


God is ABLE but God does NOT unconditionally keep Christians from falling against their will. The Christian must contend for the faith (v3) and by faithfully keeping God's word, in that sense, God is able to keep the Christian from falling. The Christian must be "building up yourselves on your most holy faith" and "keep yourself in the love of God" v21. God provides a way for the Christian to not stumble and fall but it is up to the Christian to heed to God's instructions, if not, the Christian will fall.

This verse is NOT saying in any sense that God does everything to keep the Christian from falling and the Christian does nothing, that the Christian has no responsibility himself for not falling. Again, the Christian must contend for the faith, build up himself on the most holy faith and keep himself in the love of God and those who do will not stumble.

One commentator put it this way "If Christians heed the instructions of their Lord and walk in the light as he is in the light, they will not stumble; and, for those who thus walk, the Lord indeed can and does guard them from stumbling."

It seems there were false converts within the church who were “ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord” (Jude 1:4). Jude goes on to explain some of what these false believers are doing and compares their actions to other historical rebellions. Jude warns that these people will not escape judgment.

But he will keep us.

Jude writes this as an encouragement. He warns believers to be steadfast and to live a holy life. And he reassures them that God is both willing and able to purify His children. True Christians will struggle with sin (1 John 1:8–9). We will fail. But we can trust that our God is faithful and able to keep us in His grip and to present us blameless before Himself (John 10:28–30; Romans 7–8; Philippians 1:6). Not only can He do this, but He does it with great joy. This is why we praise Him so greatly.

What does it mean that God is able to keep us from falling (Jude 24)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that God is able to keep us from falling? What does Jude verse 24 mean? How does God keep us from falling?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Seabass]

Phil 1:5 and 6

For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Those Philippians had faithfully remained in the gospel from the first day until now.

"confident" is perfect tense showing that due to past experience of those Philippains remaining faithful in the gospel, therefore Paul is confident of the fruition of the Lord's work in them. Note those in Galatia (Gal 1:6) did not faithfully remain in the gospel as those Philippians, hence Paul does not have the confidence with those in Galatia as he did with the Philippians. Paul was afraid his work with those in Galatia was in vain (Gal 4:11) they had quit obeying the truth (Gal 5:7) and had fallen from grace (Gal 5:4).

Therefore Paul's confidence was not based upon the false ideas of OSAS or eternal security but his confidence that the Lord would continue that good work was based upon Paul's past experience of the faithfulness of those Philippians continuing in the gospel.

 

[Seabass]

It seems there were false converts within the church who were “ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord” (Jude 1:4). Jude goes on to explain some of what these false believers are doing and compares their actions to other historical rebellions. Jude warns that these people will not escape judgment.

But he will keep us.

Jude writes this as an encouragement. He warns believers to be steadfast and to live a holy life. And he reassures them that God is both willing and able to purify His children. True Christians will struggle with sin (1 John 1:8–9). We will fail. But we can trust that our God is faithful and able to keep us in His grip and to present us blameless before Himself (John 10:28–30; Romans 7–8; Philippians 1:6). Not only can He do this, but He does it with great joy. This is why we praise Him so greatly.

What does it mean that God is able to keep us from falling (Jude 24)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that God is able to keep us from falling? What does Jude verse 24 mean? How does God keep us from falling?

www.gotquestions.org

Again, no need for warnings about falling into apostasy if such were impossible. The words fall and apostasy become meaningless if OSAS were true.

No verse says God keeps the Christian UNCONDITIONALLY saved no matter how the Christian chooses to live, even if the Christian falls away. The context of Jude shows the Christian has responsibilites to keep from falling..contend for the faith, build themselves up in the faith and keep themselves in the love of God and those who do will not fall. Those Christians who follow God's instructions in contending for the faith, building up thier faith and keeping themselves in the love of God will not fall. Hence God is ABLE to keep the Christian from following IF the Christian follows God's word. Man has a role in his own salvation, salvation is not all God while men sits doing nothing.

 

[Rockson]

God is ABLE but God does NOT unconditionally keep Christians from falling against their will. The Christian must contend for the faith (v3) and by faithfully keeping God's word, in that sense, God is able to keep the Christian from falling. The Christian must be "building up yourselves on your most holy faith" and "keep yourself in the love of God" v21. God provides a way for the Christian to not stumble and fall but it is up to the Christian to heed to God's instructions, if not, the Christian will fall.

The Bible says we're to forgive so that our heavenly Father can forgive us. God doesn't do our forgiving for us. We told to keep ourselves from idols. I think it would be a strange doctrine which would say we don't really need to heed to this instruction. If you're saved God is going to keep you from them regardless so why even bother to tell us to do something about it? And if we see a believer who doesn't keep themselves from them.....we then judge him saying well he wasn't saved to begin with. Couple of days later he asks forgiveness from God and is restored.......but then why didn't God keep him for the idols in the first place? Fact is there is a Godward side and a Manward side to every victory. We have our part to play but God has his.

 

[Anja]

One passage I really like is, Hebrews 10:1–18, it explains the extent of our salvation. He compares the inadequacies of the sacrificial system with what was attained through Christ’s death. He says that the continual animal sacrifices offered year after year could never “make perfect” those who participate in them Heb. 10:1. To “make perfect” here refers to the removal of guilt, which is a process necessary to prepare man to enter into a relationship with a perfect God. Our imperfections disqualify us from a relationship with God. Yet animal sacrifice could not erase those imperfections.

If Christ was the sacrifice for sin, and yet at the time of his death all your sins were yet to be committed, which of your sins did His blood cover? From the vantage point of the Cross, was there really any difference between the sins you committed in the past and those you will commit in the future?

 

[Handaan]

Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
Hebrews 10:22–23

This passage is just one of many in the book of Hebrews that demonstrates the author’s confidence in the security of the believer. Again, this view rests not on a few verses but on the entire tone and flow of the book.

To say that Christians can lose salvation is to say that the blood of Christ was inadequate to perfect for all time those whom God has sanctified. To say that is to equate His blood with the blood of bulls and goats. And that is an equation I doubt many human beings would be comfortable making.

 

[Parker]

Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
Hebrews 10:22–23

This passage is just one of many in the book of Hebrews that demonstrates the author’s confidence in the security of the believer. Again, this view rests not on a few verses but on the entire tone and flow of the book.

To say that Christians can lose salvation is to say that the blood of Christ was inadequate to perfect for all time those whom God has sanctified. To say that is to equate His blood with the blood of bulls and goats. And that is an equation I doubt many human beings would be comfortable making.

For me this whole discussion boils down to this one question, “Was the blood of Christ adequate?” During my own struggles with eternal security, this question used to haunt me. I knew then as I do now that to accept His blood as the adequate payment for my sin settled the question once and for all. On the other hand, to say His blood was not adequate sounded like blasphemy.

 

[Grace ambassador]

this whole discussion boils down to this one question, “Was the blood of Christ adequate?”

Amen, well asked! If God States Something Once, ought I not believe it?:

1) "In Whom we Have Redemption Through His Blood, The

Forgiveness of sins, according to the Riches of His Grace"​

(Ephesians 1:7)!​

And Then What About Since He, God, Confirms It Twice?

2) "In Whom we Have Redemption Through His Blood,

even The Forgiveness of sins" (Colossians 1:14)!!​

3) Thanks Be Unto God, It Is More Than Adequate For me!!!:

And, Confirmed By So Much ( Many More ) Scripture After Scriptures!:

God's Operation On All His new-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

I humbly must say: Amen.

ps. More Confirmation In The Three Tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation
↓ ↓ explained ↓ ↓ here:

 

[Handaan]

Your statement here shows that belief is obedience.

No believe in Jesus Christ means you're saved. Christ died for us while we were yet sinners. We're all going to sin at some time during our walk with Jesus. So just believe alone isn't going to make you obedient because we all fall short of the glory of God.

Of course I would imagine you could always add sinless perfection too works salvation. I'd like to see that one play out.

 

[Rapture Bound]

For me this whole discussion boils down to this one question, “Was the blood of Christ adequate?” During my own struggles with eternal security, this question used to haunt me. I knew then as I do now that to accept His blood as the adequate payment for my sin settled the question once and for all. On the other hand, to say His blood was not adequate sounded like blasphemy.

Well, from all that I've seen, most every supporter of the loss of salvation doctrine does not deny that the blood of Christ is adequate for the redemption of humanity. The bigger disagreement here arises over the question, "will every regenerated person continue believing that the blood of Christ is adequate for their [personal] redemption/salvation?"

In other words, they claim that there will be some genuine blood-bought children of God that will ultimately perish eternally in the Lake of Fire as a consequence of their own failure to continue believing ["enduring unto the end"] in what they at one time believed.

Therefore, it appears to me that the whole discussion actually revolves around the issue of faith/belief ... and most specifically, stated as a question, "will any regenerated individual actually "stop believing" in that which was necessary to be believed for their salvation subsequent to their initial regeneration unto eternal life?"

 

[Handaan]

Well, from all that I've seen, most every supporter of the loss of salvation doctrine does not deny that the blood of Christ is adequate for the redemption of humanity. The bigger disagreement here arises over the question, "will every regenerated person continue believing that the blood of Christ is adequate for their [personal] redemption/salvation?"

In other words, they claim that there will be some genuine blood-bought children of God that will ultimately perish eternally in the Lake of Fire as a consequence of their own failure to continue believing ["enduring unto the end"] in what they at one time believed.

Therefore, it appears to me that the whole discussion actually revolves around the issue of faith/belief ... and most specifically, stated as a question, "will any regenerated individual actually "stop believing" in that which was necessary to be believed for their salvation subsequent to their initial regeneration unto eternal life?"

I believe the Thread is about eternal security. As most threats do it has gotten a bit sidetracked. The easy way to look at it is once you belong to Jesus he will never let you go. He'll leave the 99 to go get that one last lamb. The parable of the Prodigal son. The point is a believer can leave or fall away but when they come to their senses... which God causes to happen they realize they would be better being a slave at their father's house. In other words salvation is a work of God from start to finish. When you start changing it up and adding conditions you're preaching a different gospel. The most common one being the works based salvation. That you have to keep earning your salvation.

If you look at the parable of the Prodigal Son who is the one that was most out of line? That would be the older son. He was upset because his father treated him well and still loved him after Being humiliated by what this younger son pulled.

I see that as a parallel to people that are against eternal security. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion and on these boards no one likes to back down so it is what it is. People get kind of upset when they can't get others to see things their way.

I've noticed you're pretty level-headed so I pay attention to what you post.