Eternal Justification !

[civic]

So then you know that Paul's audience is not part of a calvinist caste system. Therefore, your calvinist elect caste system has just crashed and burned.

6 feet under inside of a locked casket

 

[brightfame52]

2 Cor 5:19 can very well be a scripture on Eternal Justification, I believe it is, and therefore a vital part of the message of reconciliation, or the word of reconciliation 2 Cor 5:19

That is, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

That word in en as in Christ can sometimes be translated with, and so can be rendered :", that God was with Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them.

This could very well be the transaction agreement of Suretyship, when before the foundation, God the Father made His Son an Surety of an Better Covenant, which was the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Now its hard to deny that an Everlasting Covenant was made regarding the blood of Christ. And we know that His Blood shed was determined before the foundation of the world when we consider these two scriptures #1 Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

# 2 1 Pet 1:20

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

I believe this has to do with being pre-appointed the redeemer of Gods elect before the foundation. This pre-appointment I believe was in establishing the Surety engagement of Christ, wherein the sins of Gods elect would be charged to Him, and Suretyship Righteousness and Obedience would be charged to the Elect, so Vs 21 of 2 Cor 5:21 supplements Vs 19 !

 

[civic]

2 Cor 5:19 can very well be a scripture on Eternal Justification, I believe it is, and therefore a vital part of the message of reconciliation, or the word of reconciliation 2 Cor 5:19

That is, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

That word in en as in Christ can sometimes be translated with, and so can be rendered :", that God was with Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them.

This could very well be the transaction agreement of Suretyship, when before the foundation, God the Father made His Son an Surety of an Better Covenant, which was the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Now its hard to deny that an Everlasting Covenant was made regarding the blood of Christ. And we know that His Blood shed was determined before the foundation of the world when we consider these two scriptures #1 Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

# 2 1 Pet 1:20

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

I believe this has to do with being pre-appointed the redeemer of Gods elect before the foundation. This pre-appointment I believe was in establishing the Surety engagement of Christ, wherein the sins of Gods elect would be charged to Him, and Suretyship Righteousness and Obedience would be charged to the Elect, so Vs 21 of 2 Cor 5:21 supplements Vs 19 !

No one is justified until they are born again and become a child of God having eternal life.

Next

 

[brightfame52]

No one is justified until they are born again and become a child of God having eternal life.

Next

You just cant see it

 

[civic]

You just cant see it

Projecting since it’s not in the Bible. I can’t see it because God never says it.

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

When did He Lay them ?

Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Those for whom Christ died, God did long before they believed, had laid their sins or iniquity upon Christ, this legally, Judicially, imputatively, and so the guilt of them and legal condemnation of them, first incurred in Adam, as their Natural and Federal Head, as well as their own actual transgressions in time, these were never laid upon them, or charged upon them, yes, even before they believed ! In God's Eternal Purpose, He never laid iniquity on the elect Christ died for, but He laid upon Him, the Inequity of us All, meaning All the Sheep Jn 10:11,15 !

 

[civic]

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

 

[brightfame52]

Gods Eternal Purpose/will in Christ demands Eternal Justification of His Chosen !

Eph 1:7-11

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

This purpose is the same purpose as that Paul will write of later in this same letter Eph 3:11

According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This purpose involved the forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7. This informs us that its always been the eternal purpose of God to forgive the sins of His people in Christ according to the riches of His Grace. Its always been from everlasting, not to punish His Chosen for their sins, but to punish their sins in the person of Christ. This is why David wrote of an mercy from everlasting to everlasting Ps 103:17

But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

This is why Christ was set forth, foreordained before the foundation in this redemptive purpose 1 Pet 1:18-20

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

Rom 3:24-25

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Those words "set forth" is the greek word protithémi which means:

I purpose, design beforehand, determine.

"to place, set") – properly, to place before, setting forth in advance to achieve a particular purpose.

("to purpose") is the root of 4286 /próthesis ("God's providence, eternal purpose)

The Purpose of God to remit the sins of His people through Christ was set forth from the beginning, because it was His Eternal will to do so, by imputing the sins of His people unto Christ. All the Old Testament Saints were given Faith in His blood.

And since Gods will to forgive the sins of His People according to His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ, Their Justification from their sins was from the establishment of that same Eternal Purpose ! 11

 

[brightfame52]

By the way, I'm deeply indebted to God for His servant John Gill for his piece on Eternal Justification:
http://www.mountzionpbc.org/Index/index04.htm

With that stated I quote him here:

It deserves regard and attention, that the saints under the Old Testament, were justified by the same righteousness of Christ, as those under the New, and that before the sacrifice was offered up, the satisfaction given, and the everlasting righteousness brought in; for Christ's blood was shed for the remission of sins that were past, and his death was for the redemption of transgressions under the first Testament, #Ro 3:25 Heb 9:15.Now if God could, and actually did, justify some, three or four thousand years before the righteousness of Christ was actually wrought out, taking his Son's word and bond as their Surety, and in a view of his future righteousness; why could he not, and why may it not be thought he did, justify all his elect from eternity, upon the word and bond of their Surety, and on the basis of his future righteousness, which he had engaged to work out, and which he full well knew he would most certainly work out? and if there is no difficulty in conceiving of the one, there can be none in conceiving of the other.

Basically the point here is that if God Justified the OT Believers based upon the blood of Christ, many many centuries prior to His incarnation, then why doubt that He justified the elect from eternity based upon the blood of Christ that would be shed for them in time. Certainly He could trust His Son to come into the World and shed His blood of the everlasting covenant!

 

[synergy]

Exactly what is the timing of Justification ? When is one for whom Christ died Justified before God ? John Gill gives reasons why he believes that the saint is Justified before God, from everlasting. I concur with his sentiment and here's why, and of course in pursuit it is reasonably concluded why Justification before God is before Faith:

1. Faith is not the cause, but the fruit and effect of justification. The reason why we are justified, is not because we have faith; but the reason why we have faith is because we are justified. Was there no such blessing of grace as justification of life provided for the sons of men, there would be no such thing as faith in Christ bestowed upon them, nor, indeed, would there be any use for it; and though it is provided, yet since not for all men, therefore all men have not faith. The reason why some do not believe, is, because they are not of Christ's sheep; (John 10:26) they never were chosen in him, nor justified by him, but are justly left in their sins, and so to condemnation; the reason why others do believe, is, because they are ordained to eternal life, (Acts 13:48) have a justifying righteousness provided for them, and are justified by it, and shall never enter into condemnation and, in asserting this, I say no more than what Dr. Twisse, the famous Prolocutor to the Assembly of Divines, has said before me. His words are these: "Before faith the righteousness of Christ was ours, being in the intention of God the Father, and Christ the Mediator, wrought out for us; and, because wrought out for us, therefore God, in his own time, gives us grace of every kind, and among others, faith itself, and, at last, the crown of heavenly glory." And, a little after, he says: "Before faith and repentance the righteousness of Christ is applied unto us; since it is on the account of that, that we obtain efficacious grace, to believe in Christ and repent." Likewise the judicious Pemble writes to the same effect, when, observing a two-fold justification, he says, the one is "In foro divino, in God's sight, and this goes before all our sanctification; for even whilst the elect are unconverted, they are then actually justified, and freed from all sin, by the death of Christ, and God so esteems of them as free, and, having accepted of that satisfaction, is actually reconciled to them. By this justification, we are freed from the guilt of our sins; and because that is done away, God, in due time, proceeds to give us the grace of sanctification, to free from sin's corruption still inherent in our persons." The other is, "In foro conscientiae, in their own sense, which is but the revelation and certain declaration of God's former secret act of accepting Christ's righteousness to our justification." And Maccovius says, "That because that God justifies us, therefore, he gives us faith, and other spiritual gifts." Now, if justification is the cause, and faith the effect; then, as every cause is before its effect, and every effect follows its own cause, justification must be before faith, and faith must follow justification.

First it was eternal election onto salvation and now it's eternal justification. What's it going to be in the future: eternal glorification? Give me a break.

 

[brightfame52]

Being Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9 means Justification by God from the foundation of the World. Why and how can that be ? Because from God's Eternal Purpose and perspective Christ was slain from the foundation of the World Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

So Christ being slain denotes His Blood which denotes Justification by His Blood Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 11

 

[synergy]

Being Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9 means Justification by God from the foundation of the World. Why and how can that be ? Because from God's Eternal Purpose and perspective Christ was slain from the foundation of the World Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

So Christ being slain denotes His Blood which denotes Justification by His Blood Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 11

With no mention of faith anywhere, it all sounds like Universalism.

 

[brightfame52]

With no mention of faith anywhere, it all sounds like Universalism.

No faith comes later, before faith justification is by the blood Rom 5:9

 

[synergy]

No faith comes later, before faith justification is by the blood Rom 5:9

If no faith comes later then there is no faith ever. I see that you really loath and despise faith.

 

[brightfame52]

If no faith comes later then there is no faith ever. I see that you really loath and despise faith.

Yeah Faith comes later, men dont believe before the foundation of the world prior to their existence, neither do people believe before Jesus died on the cross,shed His Blood for them. If Christ died for a person, shed His Blood for them in 33 ad and the person He did it for was born in 1957, he was already Justified by the blood in 33 ad, he may not believe until 1986, even though he will believe because the Just shall live by faith

 

[synergy]

Yeah Faith comes later, men dont believe before the foundation of the world prior to their existence, neither do people believe before Jesus died on the cross,shed His Blood for them. If Christ died for a person, shed His Blood for them in 33 ad and the person He did it for was born in 1957, he was already Justified by the blood in 33 ad, he may not believe until 1986, even though he will believe because the Just shall live by faith

First you say "No faith comes later" and then you say "yeah faith comes later". Make up your mind. That's what happens to calvinists, they don't know if they're coming or going.

 

[brightfame52]

First you say "No faith comes later" and then you say "yeah faith comes later". Make up your mind. That's what happens to calvinists, they don't know if they're coming or going.

You just mock

 

[civic]

First you say "No faith comes later" and then you say "yeah faith comes later". Make up your mind. That's what happens to calvinists, they don't know if they're coming or going.

Yes all over the map since he is now saying the opposite of tulip lol

 

[civic]

With no mention of faith anywhere, it all sounds like Universalism.

Yep universalism unmasked

 

[brightfame52]

Due to the fact that in the mind and purpose of God, Christ was slain from the foundation of the World, it must be the sins of the Elect in His mind and purpose had been imputed upon Him, then must the Elect have been Justified from their sins from the foundation.