civic
Well-known member
no need to apologize.
Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Obadiah
Well-known member
I know I have been guilty of this one many times.
Jesus said, “I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken” (Matthew 12:36).
By an idle word is meant one that is false, that accuses any falsely. Some indeed say that it includes all light talk, all such as stirs immoderate laughter, or shameful and immodest words."
Solomon wrote in Proverbs 18:21 that “death and life are in the power of the tongue.”
Jesus said, “I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken” (Matthew 12:36).
By an idle word is meant one that is false, that accuses any falsely. Some indeed say that it includes all light talk, all such as stirs immoderate laughter, or shameful and immodest words."
Solomon wrote in Proverbs 18:21 that “death and life are in the power of the tongue.”
brightfame52
Well-known member
Election is unconditional,
For Election of Grace is premised on God giving the Elect Grace in Christ Jesus, and purpose before the world began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
God’s giving us grace in Christ before the world began is election !
It minded not anything we would do or not do after we were born Rom 9:11
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
For Election of Grace is premised on God giving the Elect Grace in Christ Jesus, and purpose before the world began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
God’s giving us grace in Christ before the world began is election !
It minded not anything we would do or not do after we were born Rom 9:11
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
brightfame52
Well-known member
Election is unconditional:
Yet the natural man will not and cannot accept this Truth,
Paul indicated it here Rom 9:11,13-15
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Pay attention to Vs 11 as it regards the purpose of election, Paul made it clear, that it was unconditional, because it takes place prior to the subjects existence, b4 they could do either good or evil ! What could be more plainer that Election is unconditional ? Paul therefore preached unconditional election in his Gospel !
Yet the natural man will not and cannot accept this Truth,
Paul indicated it here Rom 9:11,13-15
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Pay attention to Vs 11 as it regards the purpose of election, Paul made it clear, that it was unconditional, because it takes place prior to the subjects existence, b4 they could do either good or evil ! What could be more plainer that Election is unconditional ? Paul therefore preached unconditional election in his Gospel !
civic
Well-known member
FALSE
Unconditional Election
The teaching of Five-Point Calvinism is that God has determined and decreed that some are to be saved without any conditions to be met on their part.
This is called Unconditional Election and is the choosing of some to salvation in Christ, while at the same time, leaving the rest in their lost condition by not choosing them. This election is not based on God's foreknowing that certain would believe, but is based on His sovereign will to elect certain ones. Those who are not chosen to be part of the Elect of God can in no way enter into that company. In line with this teaching, the statement is made that God does not love all men, but only those whom he has chosen to be saved.
The Scriptures are very plain that God has His Elect ones who by faith in Jesus Christ are predestinated "to be conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom. 8:29). They are adopted by God and Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4,5). This election is plainly declared to be based on the foreknowledge of God (1 Peter 1:2; Rom. 8:29). Since God knows the end from the beginning, He foreknows those who will believe in Christ. He has purposed that they will be to the praise of His glory throughout the ages and through them He will "show the exceeding riches of His grace" (Eph. 2:7).
The Scriptures are also very plain in stating that "whosoever will" may come to Christ. Please read the following Scriptures— John 3:15,16; 4:14; 12:46; Acts 2:21, 10:43; Rom. 10:13; Rev. 22:17. The word whosoever means "all, any, every, the whole." Since we believe in the verbal, plenary inspiration of the Word of God we are forced to believe that when God moves the Scripture writers to say "whosoever," then that is exactly what He means. That there is a condition to be met in order for one to be saved is proved by our Lord's words in John 8:24, "for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." Other Scriptures have already been quoted under Total Inability to bear out the conditional requirement of believing in order to have salvation.
That God loves all men in this world and sent His Son to die for them is abundantly clear from John 3:16. The Five-Point Calvinist changes the meaning of the word "world" here and adds to the Word of God by placing immediately behind it two words, "the elect." The verse then appears this way, "For God so loved the world (the elect) that He gave His only begotten Son, etc." I have seen this verse written in this way in gospel tracts. The word world is used 77 times in the Gospel of John. I would encourage you to take Strong's Concordance and look up each occurrence, then insert the words "the elect" behind each usage of it. You do not have to go far before you see how ridiculous it is.
You see, beloved, if God does not love all men, then we should not love them either. Since our Christian character comes from the indwelling of our Lord, we cannot show forth an attribute that is superior to His. Yet, strangely enough, the Word of God says we are to love our enemies, our wives, our husbands, our children. If we must love lost sinners, and our Lord is holier than we are, we must believe that He loves them too. I'll believe John 3:16 as it stands, unaltered by the followers of John Calvin.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Limited Atonement
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
Loraine Boettner has stated on p. 59 of his book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination,
"prove any one of them true and all of the others will follow as logical and necessary parts of the system. Prove any one of them false and the whole system must be abandoned."
conclusion: I have proven the atonement is not limited- John 1:20, 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 2 Pet 3:9 and 1 John 2:2.
This proves all of tulip is false including U.E.
next fallacy...........
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
Projecting again lol
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Nobody wants to serve and love an absurd god, or an inmoral god.
When you say that election is totally “by grace and God’s sovereign good pleasure”, it implies that God’s pleasure is not only sovereign, but also good. God’s pleasure is not sadist, but loving.
If we don’t blaspheme against God when we hear that more than 2000 were killed in an earthquake in Myanmar, it is because we asume God is loving and fair with those people in the big picture, including the eternal afterlife.
We would not serve a god who chooses not to give many of his children a true opportunity to escape their condition. Se would not love a god who chooses to create people with a totally depraved nature and denies them his grace so that they can be tortured forever.
I would not serve or love such a god. In that case, and being an atheist would be an inifinitely better decision.
Last edited:
brightfame52
Well-known member
May God have mercy on your folly friend
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
I'm thankful that you share your beliefs with us in the Forum.
I can see you care about my spiritual well-being. We each have our own faith journey, and I respect how your beliefs give you purpose.
Though we see doctrinal matters differently, we probably share values like kindness and respect. I think treating each other with dignity despite our differences is at the core of living in Christ.
I agree.
I was intrigued by the life of Christ for many years but could get no satisfactory answer about how our lives could have come to be if GOD was truly loving....
Then I was introduced to Pre-Conception Existence theology and started to realize it answered all the questions of how a loving GOD could create a situation here on earth like the Churches interpreted the Bible to say HE did...PCE does not hold opposite doctrines to be both true at the same time (doublethink) and call them mysteries.
Then I met Christ in the spirit and was called to study the bible from the pov of finding pce within it. This lasted for three years and I got thru the whole bible three times before I was called to get a life and to live what I had been taught.
All of this filled me not only with an appreciation of GOD's true holiness (HE cannot create evil or evil people nor cause suffering or death to the innocent) but also reconciled me to the doctrine of damnation, <shrug>.
Similar threads
