Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[brightfame52]

Election isn't conditioned on the saints believing, but the saint [believer] was chosen to be a saint[holy] Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now that word holy is the greek word hagios and means :

1. most holy thing, a saint

Its the same greek word Paul uses in the introduction to whom hes writing Eh 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

And saints here are believers, the faithful, so they were chosen unto that end before the foundation, and not because they are believers, saints, or faithful.

Election of Grace is unconditional. 3

 

[TedT]

Election isn't conditioned on the saints believing, but the saint [believer] was chosen to be a saint[holy] Eph 1:4

...and they were chosen DUE TO THE FACT that they believed in HIM, ie, they had put their faith in HIM, their hope without proof. Sounds like a condition to me...

And those who never believed, who never put any faith in Him as their GOD and Saviour from sin, were condemned already...John 3:18.
Already before what?
Before hearing the gospel? NO sir!
Before their creation? Just as blasphemous.

Before their being sown into the world of mankind, as per
Berean Standard Bible
Matt 13:38...The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. Why not? We know the Satanic sinners were flung into this world, into Sheol inside this world, because Rev 12:4-9 tells us so.

This implies to me that Satan and his angels fell by his own free will before the truth of YHWH's divinity and eternal power were proven by the creation of the physical world and because this sin is unforgivable, they were condemned at that time for rejecting the gospel as lies and YHWH as a false god.

That is why, that is the condition the demonic reprobate had causing them to be passed over for the promise of salvation and the heavenly marriage, that is, for having chosen to sin the unforgivable sin before the foundation of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

@TedT

.and they were chosen DUE TO THE FACT that they believed in HIM, ie, they had put their faith in HIM, their hope without proof. Sounds like a condition to me...

False from the jump

 

[brightfame52]

Is Unconditional Election of only some to Salvation unfair ?

Lets see what one Gospel writer has stated:

Election is not about a man’s will, it is not about man choosing God, but about God choosing whomsoever He wills to be saved. Again, people see this as unfair. They say, ‘What chance do we have if God does the choosing?’ The elephant in the room which all lost men fail to see, is: no man has any chance to choose God, for they are all dead in trespasses and sins (see Eph.2:1,5; Rom. 3:9). God is the only hope, the only chance any lost, Hell-deserving sinner has. Man is not neutral, he is dead. God’s choosing to save some helpless and hopelessly unworthy people is the glory of God. God explains this as His Goodness: “And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy” (Ex. 33:19). The goodness of God is to be gracious to those whom He wills to be gracious, and to show mercy toward those whom He wills to be merciful. If you do not believe and abide in this doctrine, you do not have God. God’s choosing those to whom He would be merciful and gracious, IS GOD’S GOODNESS, not any display of unrighteousness on His part. Flee anyone and everyone who dares to claim that election is in any way unrighteous.

Let us now examine the question: “‘Is there unrighteousness with God?’ This is not an objection of Paul’s, but of an adversary, which he takes up and returns an answer to; and which itself greatly serves to settle and confirm the true sense and meaning of the apostle in this place; as that it could not be, that election and rejection of men should proceed according to their merits; or that God chooses some for their good works, and rejects others for their wicked works, because no man could ever pretend to charge God with unrighteousness on this account; nor could it be that God chose and rejected men, upon a foresight of their good and evil works, for this also would not be liable to such an objection; nor that the Jews, having made the law of none effect by their traditions, despised the Gospel, crucified Christ, and persecuted His disciples, are therefore cast off, and the Gentiles, being obedient both in word and deed, are received into favour, for this likewise would not be chargeable with unrighteousness by men; but that two persons, as Jacob and Esau, and the same may be said of all mankind, being upon an equal foot, not being yet born, nor having done either good or evil, an inequality, a difference is made between them, by God Himself; the one is chosen, the other passed by: now in this is some show, some pretence at least, for such an objection; nor is it any wonder to meet with it from the carnal reason of men; wherefore we may be sure that the latter, and not either of the former, is the true sense of the apostle; since only this, and not either of them, is liable to such an exception: let us attend to the apostle's answer, which is ‘first’ in his usual manner, by way of detestation and abhorrence, ‘God forbid’: God is not unrighteous in His nature; nor in any of His ways and works; nor in this, in choosing some and rejecting others. There is no unrighteousness with God in that part of predestination, commonly called election; for this is neither an act of justice, nor injustice; not of justice, but of grace and mercy; of undue and undeserved grace and mercy, of mere Sovereign grace and mercy; and is what God was not obliged to do; wherefore to choose some and not others, is no act of injustice; for injustice is a violation of justice, which has no place in this affair: if it is an act of injustice, it must be either to them that are chosen, or to them that are not; not to them that are chosen, to them it is an act of favour and good will, they are chosen to grace and glory, to holiness here, and happiness hereafter; not to them that are passed by, because they had no right nor claim to the grace and glory, which by this act are denied them, and therefore no injustice is done them.” Moreno Dal Bello https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone

What's being said is that No, unconditional election of some is not unfair, its not a matter of justice at all, but a matter of undeserved mercy 3

 

[TedT]

Is Unconditional Election of only some to Salvation unfair ?

Lets see what one Gospel writer has stated:
What's being said is that No, unconditional election of some is not unfair, its not a matter of justice at all, but a matter of undeserved mercy 3

...but sInce it must also mean that it is a matter of undeserved reprobation, then I must reject it...

 

[Johann]

Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

John Calvin and Grace
John Calvin wielded a great influence in the religious community on the subject of grace. His ideas are circulated in several denominations, and, tragically, have found their way into the thinking of many people.
By Wayne Jackson | Christian Courier


John Calvin of Switzerland was one of the most influential religious figures of the last millennium.

Calvin was born in 1509. At fourteen, he went to Paris to study the classics. He was so austere that his fellow students nicknamed him “The Accusative Case.”

In 1529, he commenced the study of civil law. But soon, Calvin became intrigued with the teachings of the German reformers and so gave himself to the study of religion.

In 1533, he broke with the Roman Catholic Church after a religious “experience” during which he believed he received a commission from God to restore the Church to its original purity.

At only twenty-six, he completed the first edition of his famous Institutes of the Christian Religion in 1536. The initial edition was a small volume of six chapters. Over the years, he revised this work several times. The final version completed in 1560 had grown to eighty chapters.

Calvin’s views were significantly influenced by the writings of Augustine, a “bishop” in northern Africa (A.D. 353-430). Calvin’s teaching formed the doctrinal basis of much of modern Protestantism.

In this article, we briefly comment on John Calvin’s influence on the religious community on the subject of grace. His ideas are circulated in several denominations and, tragically, have found their way into the thinking of many people.

Total Hereditary Depravity
One of Calvin’s prominent errors was the notion that man is born totally depraved, having inherited both the effects and the guilt of Adam’s original sin.

Even infants, therefore, have in them the seed of sin. Indeed, their whole nature is a sort of a sin-seed so that they cannot be anything other than corrupt before God (Institutes ii.I.8).

At birth, then, all men stand in need of the Lord’s grace. From this fundamental error, others sprung.

Limited Grace
One of the cornerstones of Calvin’s theology was the dogma of predestination. This is the notion that God, consistent with his sovereignty, pre-determined who would be saved and who would be lost before the foundation of the world.

According to this view, when Christ died, his death was efficacious only for the elect.

This concept of limited atonement—hence, limited grace—is so foreign to the teaching of the Scriptures that it is difficult to see how anyone with an elementary knowledge of the New Testament could accept it.

Hear the testimony of Paul: “For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men” (Tit. 2:11).

Because God loved the entire world (Jn. 3:16) and so wants all men to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4) and not a single one to perish (2 Pet. 3:9), Christ died to be the propitiation for sins—not just for the elect, but potentially for the entire world as well (1 Jn. 2:2).

Irresistible Grace
Calvin argued that God’s grace is poured out upon the elect by a secret and special operation of the Holy Spirit. Since the extension of this grace is an act of divine power, it cannot be resisted any more than the original creation could have resisted the creative might of the Lord (Hodge 1960, 688).

But the fact is, though God’s grace is generously offered, it must be received by the sinner. “We entreat also that you receive not the grace of God in vain” (2 Cor. 6:1).

Note that it is possible to refuse (i.e., “receive not”) what is offered (cf. Jn. 1:11).

Unconditional Grace
Calvinists argue that grace is given to the elect unconditionally. If such is the case, then there is absolutely nothing that one must do to receive salvation—not even believe.

One writer states:

[W]e believe that there is no warrant whatsoever for the view that John 3:16 lays down faith as a condition to be performed by the lost person in order to attain spiritual eternal life.

Again, he says:

God, without the use of the gospel or any other human means, will save all of his redeemed loved ones in every land and in every age (Sarrels 1978, 443-444).

The preceding affirmations are ludicrous.

Paul declares that we have “access by faith into this grace” (Rom. 5:2). In his discussion of grace in his epistle to Titus, the inspired apostle states that God, “according to his mercy, saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit ... being justified by his grace” (Tit. 3:5-7).

Paul equates being saved by the washing of regeneration with being justified by grace. The washing alludes to man’s response to God by submitting to baptism.

The Lord supplies grace independent of any merit on our part. Clearly, though, the washing of regeneration is a condition of our redemption.

But is that expression an allusion to baptism? Even Calvin admitted that he had “no doubt” that Paul was alluding to baptism—though he denied the connection between baptism and salvation (see Shepherd 1950, 405).

Irrevocable Grace
Calvin maintained that the elect could be sure that God would never allow them to fall away from the faith. They would thus persevere unto the end.

A sizable segment of Protestantism has adopted the doctrine to some degree or another. A prominent Baptist clergyman, Charles Stanley, attempted to argue this case in his book, Eterrnal Security (see Jackson 1993).

But the New Testament teaches otherwise. A child of God can fall from grace (Gal. 5:4) or fail, i.e., fall back from the Lord’s favor (Heb. 12:15; cf. ASV fn).

It is possible to deny the Master who bought you and so be destroyed (2 Pet. 2:1). Thus, we must keep ourselves in God’s love (Jude 21) and give diligence to make our calling and election sure (2 Pet. 1:10), lest our reception of divine grace be in vain (2 Cor. 6:1).

Conclusion
While we acknowledge that John Calvin taught some truth, we must also recognize that he advocated much error and that error must be rejected.

John Calvin and Grace

John Calvin wielded a great influence in the religious community on the subject of grace. His ideas are circulated in several denominations, and, tragically, have found their way into the thinking of many people.

christiancourier.com

 

[Taylor]

John Calvin and Grace
John Calvin wielded a great influence in the religious community on the subject of grace. His ideas are circulated in several denominations, and, tragically, have found their way into the thinking of many people.
By Wayne Jackson | Christian Courier


John Calvin of Switzerland was one of the most influential religious figures of the last millennium.

Calvin was born in 1509. At fourteen, he went to Paris to study the classics. He was so austere that his fellow students nicknamed him “The Accusative Case.”

In 1529, he commenced the study of civil law. But soon, Calvin became intrigued with the teachings of the German reformers and so gave himself to the study of religion.

In 1533, he broke with the Roman Catholic Church after a religious “experience” during which he believed he received a commission from God to restore the Church to its original purity.

At only twenty-six, he completed the first edition of his famous Institutes of the Christian Religion in 1536. The initial edition was a small volume of six chapters. Over the years, he revised this work several times. The final version completed in 1560 had grown to eighty chapters.

Calvin’s views were significantly influenced by the writings of Augustine, a “bishop” in northern Africa (A.D. 353-430). Calvin’s teaching formed the doctrinal basis of much of modern Protestantism.

In this article, we briefly comment on John Calvin’s influence on the religious community on the subject of grace. His ideas are circulated in several denominations and, tragically, have found their way into the thinking of many people.

Total Hereditary Depravity
One of Calvin’s prominent errors was the notion that man is born totally depraved, having inherited both the effects and the guilt of Adam’s original sin.

Even infants, therefore, have in them the seed of sin. Indeed, their whole nature is a sort of a sin-seed so that they cannot be anything other than corrupt before God (Institutes ii.I.8).

At birth, then, all men stand in need of the Lord’s grace. From this fundamental error, others sprung.

Limited Grace
One of the cornerstones of Calvin’s theology was the dogma of predestination. This is the notion that God, consistent with his sovereignty, pre-determined who would be saved and who would be lost before the foundation of the world.

According to this view, when Christ died, his death was efficacious only for the elect.

This concept of limited atonement—hence, limited grace—is so foreign to the teaching of the Scriptures that it is difficult to see how anyone with an elementary knowledge of the New Testament could accept it.

Hear the testimony of Paul: “For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men” (Tit. 2:11).

Because God loved the entire world (Jn. 3:16) and so wants all men to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4) and not a single one to perish (2 Pet. 3:9), Christ died to be the propitiation for sins—not just for the elect, but potentially for the entire world as well (1 Jn. 2:2).

Irresistible Grace
Calvin argued that God’s grace is poured out upon the elect by a secret and special operation of the Holy Spirit. Since the extension of this grace is an act of divine power, it cannot be resisted any more than the original creation could have resisted the creative might of the Lord (Hodge 1960, 688).

But the fact is, though God’s grace is generously offered, it must be received by the sinner. “We entreat also that you receive not the grace of God in vain” (2 Cor. 6:1).

Note that it is possible to refuse (i.e., “receive not”) what is offered (cf. Jn. 1:11).

Unconditional Grace
Calvinists argue that grace is given to the elect unconditionally. If such is the case, then there is absolutely nothing that one must do to receive salvation—not even believe.

One writer states:

[W]e believe that there is no warrant whatsoever for the view that John 3:16 lays down faith as a condition to be performed by the lost person in order to attain spiritual eternal life.

Again, he says:

God, without the use of the gospel or any other human means, will save all of his redeemed loved ones in every land and in every age (Sarrels 1978, 443-444).

The preceding affirmations are ludicrous.

Paul declares that we have “access by faith into this grace” (Rom. 5:2). In his discussion of grace in his epistle to Titus, the inspired apostle states that God, “according to his mercy, saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit ... being justified by his grace” (Tit. 3:5-7).

Paul equates being saved by the washing of regeneration with being justified by grace. The washing alludes to man’s response to God by submitting to baptism.

The Lord supplies grace independent of any merit on our part. Clearly, though, the washing of regeneration is a condition of our redemption.

But is that expression an allusion to baptism? Even Calvin admitted that he had “no doubt” that Paul was alluding to baptism—though he denied the connection between baptism and salvation (see Shepherd 1950, 405).

Irrevocable Grace
Calvin maintained that the elect could be sure that God would never allow them to fall away from the faith. They would thus persevere unto the end.

A sizable segment of Protestantism has adopted the doctrine to some degree or another. A prominent Baptist clergyman, Charles Stanley, attempted to argue this case in his book, Eterrnal Security (see Jackson 1993).

But the New Testament teaches otherwise. A child of God can fall from grace (Gal. 5:4) or fail, i.e., fall back from the Lord’s favor (Heb. 12:15; cf. ASV fn).

It is possible to deny the Master who bought you and so be destroyed (2 Pet. 2:1). Thus, we must keep ourselves in God’s love (Jude 21) and give diligence to make our calling and election sure (2 Pet. 1:10), lest our reception of divine grace be in vain (2 Cor. 6:1).

Conclusion
While we acknowledge that John Calvin taught some truth, we must also recognize that he advocated much error and that error must be rejected.

John Calvin and Grace

John Calvin wielded a great influence in the religious community on the subject of grace. His ideas are circulated in several denominations, and, tragically, have found their way into the thinking of many people.

christiancourier.com

Right on! I think Charles Stanley does a great job explaining eternal security. Here's an example that shows how we are sealed.

Every husband has experienced the frustration and embarrassment of offering to help his wife open a new jar or bottle only to find that for all his strength and good intentions, the top wouldn’t budge! With a look of defeat we grudgingly turn the project back over to our wives. On comes the hot water. And in a few seconds the seal is broken and the top comes right off. We slip back into the den, pretending like the whole event never took place.

Despite its potential threat to our masculinity, there is something comforting about hearing a seal pop open. It assures us that nothing inside the jar has been tampered with. We can be certain that the contents have been protected, regardless of where the container has been or who handled it last.

On a much grander scale, there is a seal assuring each believer that no one has tampered with his or her eternal security. Paul said it this way:

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
—Ephesians 1:13–14

Charles F. Stanley, Eternal Security: Can You Be Sure?

Paul says that we are God's Own possession, And I don't think God will lose anything that belongs to him. We were bought and paid for by the precious blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[Johann]

Right on! I think Charles Stanley does a great job explaining eternal security. Here's an example that shows how we are sealed.

Every husband has experienced the frustration and embarrassment of offering to help his wife open a new jar or bottle only to find that for all his strength and good intentions, the top wouldn’t budge! With a look of defeat we grudgingly turn the project back over to our wives. On comes the hot water. And in a few seconds the seal is broken and the top comes right off. We slip back into the den, pretending like the whole event never took place.

Despite its potential threat to our masculinity, there is something comforting about hearing a seal pop open. It assures us that nothing inside the jar has been tampered with. We can be certain that the contents have been protected, regardless of where the container has been or who handled it last.

On a much grander scale, there is a seal assuring each believer that no one has tampered with his or her eternal security. Paul said it this way:

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
—Ephesians 1:13–14

Charles F. Stanley, Eternal Security: Can You Be Sure?

Paul says that we are God's Own possession, And I don't think God will lose anything that belongs to him. We were bought and paid for by the precious blood of Jesus Christ.

Great post and I fully concur.
Johann.

 

[Bronson]

Great post and I fully concur.
Johann.

So what's going on in South Africa Johann? You do street preaching over there right?

 

[brightfame52]

...but sInce it must also mean that it is a matter of undeserved reprobation, then I must reject it...

Reprobation is punishment for sin, its deserved, but mercy for sin isnt. God created some for mercy and He created some for deserved condemnation

 

[brightfame52]

John Calvin and Grace
John Calvin wielded a great influence in the religious community on the subject of grace. His ideas are circulated in several denominations, and, tragically, have found their way into the thinking of many people.
By Wayne Jackson | Christian Courier


John Calvin of Switzerland was one of the most influential religious figures of the last millennium.

Calvin was born in 1509. At fourteen, he went to Paris to study the classics. He was so austere that his fellow students nicknamed him “The Accusative Case.”

In 1529, he commenced the study of civil law. But soon, Calvin became intrigued with the teachings of the German reformers and so gave himself to the study of religion.

In 1533, he broke with the Roman Catholic Church after a religious “experience” during which he believed he received a commission from God to restore the Church to its original purity.

At only twenty-six, he completed the first edition of his famous Institutes of the Christian Religion in 1536. The initial edition was a small volume of six chapters. Over the years, he revised this work several times. The final version completed in 1560 had grown to eighty chapters.

Calvin’s views were significantly influenced by the writings of Augustine, a “bishop” in northern Africa (A.D. 353-430). Calvin’s teaching formed the doctrinal basis of much of modern Protestantism.

In this article, we briefly comment on John Calvin’s influence on the religious community on the subject of grace. His ideas are circulated in several denominations and, tragically, have found their way into the thinking of many people.

Total Hereditary Depravity
One of Calvin’s prominent errors was the notion that man is born totally depraved, having inherited both the effects and the guilt of Adam’s original sin.

Even infants, therefore, have in them the seed of sin. Indeed, their whole nature is a sort of a sin-seed so that they cannot be anything other than corrupt before God (Institutes ii.I.8).

At birth, then, all men stand in need of the Lord’s grace. From this fundamental error, others sprung.

Limited Grace
One of the cornerstones of Calvin’s theology was the dogma of predestination. This is the notion that God, consistent with his sovereignty, pre-determined who would be saved and who would be lost before the foundation of the world.

According to this view, when Christ died, his death was efficacious only for the elect.

This concept of limited atonement—hence, limited grace—is so foreign to the teaching of the Scriptures that it is difficult to see how anyone with an elementary knowledge of the New Testament could accept it.

Hear the testimony of Paul: “For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men” (Tit. 2:11).

Because God loved the entire world (Jn. 3:16) and so wants all men to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4) and not a single one to perish (2 Pet. 3:9), Christ died to be the propitiation for sins—not just for the elect, but potentially for the entire world as well (1 Jn. 2:2).

Irresistible Grace
Calvin argued that God’s grace is poured out upon the elect by a secret and special operation of the Holy Spirit. Since the extension of this grace is an act of divine power, it cannot be resisted any more than the original creation could have resisted the creative might of the Lord (Hodge 1960, 688).

But the fact is, though God’s grace is generously offered, it must be received by the sinner. “We entreat also that you receive not the grace of God in vain” (2 Cor. 6:1).

Note that it is possible to refuse (i.e., “receive not”) what is offered (cf. Jn. 1:11).

Unconditional Grace
Calvinists argue that grace is given to the elect unconditionally. If such is the case, then there is absolutely nothing that one must do to receive salvation—not even believe.

One writer states:

[W]e believe that there is no warrant whatsoever for the view that John 3:16 lays down faith as a condition to be performed by the lost person in order to attain spiritual eternal life.

Again, he says:

God, without the use of the gospel or any other human means, will save all of his redeemed loved ones in every land and in every age (Sarrels 1978, 443-444).

The preceding affirmations are ludicrous.

Paul declares that we have “access by faith into this grace” (Rom. 5:2). In his discussion of grace in his epistle to Titus, the inspired apostle states that God, “according to his mercy, saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit ... being justified by his grace” (Tit. 3:5-7).

Paul equates being saved by the washing of regeneration with being justified by grace. The washing alludes to man’s response to God by submitting to baptism.

The Lord supplies grace independent of any merit on our part. Clearly, though, the washing of regeneration is a condition of our redemption.

But is that expression an allusion to baptism? Even Calvin admitted that he had “no doubt” that Paul was alluding to baptism—though he denied the connection between baptism and salvation (see Shepherd 1950, 405).

Irrevocable Grace
Calvin maintained that the elect could be sure that God would never allow them to fall away from the faith. They would thus persevere unto the end.

A sizable segment of Protestantism has adopted the doctrine to some degree or another. A prominent Baptist clergyman, Charles Stanley, attempted to argue this case in his book, Eterrnal Security (see Jackson 1993).

But the New Testament teaches otherwise. A child of God can fall from grace (Gal. 5:4) or fail, i.e., fall back from the Lord’s favor (Heb. 12:15; cf. ASV fn).

It is possible to deny the Master who bought you and so be destroyed (2 Pet. 2:1). Thus, we must keep ourselves in God’s love (Jude 21) and give diligence to make our calling and election sure (2 Pet. 1:10), lest our reception of divine grace be in vain (2 Cor. 6:1).

Conclusion
While we acknowledge that John Calvin taught some truth, we must also recognize that he advocated much error and that error must be rejected.

John Calvin and Grace

John Calvin wielded a great influence in the religious community on the subject of grace. His ideas are circulated in several denominations, and, tragically, have found their way into the thinking of many people.

christiancourier.com

Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

 

[TedT]

Reprobation is punishment for sin, its deserved, but mercy for sin isnt. God created some for mercy and He created some for deserved condemnation

This answer assumes they are condemned before they were created, ie, before they sinned, for the sin they were created to do...an abomination against HIS character.

 

[brightfame52]

This answer assumes they are condemned before they were created, ie, before they sinned, for the sin they were created to do...an abomination against HIS character.

Yes they are condemned when they are born and in the purpose of God before they were created, the vessels of wrath are created to be condemned for their sin, and likewise the vessels of mercy are born and created to obtain mercy for their sins. Rom 9

 

[Johann]

Yes they are condemned when they are born and in the purpose of God before they were created, the vessels of wrath are created to be condemned for their sin, and likewise the vessels of mercy are born and created to obtain mercy for their sins. Rom 9

Many sincere, Bible-believing Christian are "Calvinists" only by default. Thinking that the only choice is between Calvinism (with its presumed doctrine of eternal security) and Arminianism (with its teaching that salvation can be lost), and confident of Christ's promise to keep eternally those who believe in Him, they therefore consider themselves to be Calvinists. It takes only a few simple questions to discover that most Christians are largely unaware of what John Calvin and his early followers of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries actually believed and practiced. Nor do they fully understand the eternal implications and ramifications of what most of today's leading Calvinists preach and teach.

Among Calvinist's chief proponents there is general agreement on certain core beliefs. Many evangelicals who think they are Calvinists would be surprised to learn of Calvin's belief in salvation through infant baptism, and of his grossly un-Christian behavior, at times, as the "Protestant Pope" of Geneva, Switzerland.

Most shocking of all is Calvinism's misrepresentation of God who "is love." —Excerpt taken from Dave Hunt, What Love Is This?" fourth edition (Bend, OR: TBC, 2013), back cover

Key Scripture verses related to "Calvinism":

Old Testament:

Isaiah:45:22
Isaiah:55:1-7
Jeremiah:29:13
New Testament

Matthew:11:28
John:3:16
; Jn:4:10
; Jn:5:24
; Jn:7:17
; Jn:7:37
; Jn:20:3
Acts:16:31
Romans:10:9
Hebrews:11:6
1 Peter:1:23-25
Revelation:22:17


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Taste and See (Part 1) - Hunt, Dave Aug 2004

TBC’s Mission: Damage Control - T. A. McMahon May 2021
What a Sovereign God Cannot Do (Revisited) - Dave Hunt Mar 2023

RELATED VIDEOS
QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES

Question: Why does Revelation 17:8 (and maybe Revelation 13:8, depending on the translation used) refer to those “whose names were not written in the book of life from the creation of the world...”?

Question: Were Adam and Eve created perfect? If so, how could they sin? If they were created with a will that could choose to sin, how could they have been perfect?

Question: [TBC's] statement that John Calvin taught that Infant Baptism saves betrays a regrettable ignorance of Calvin’s beliefs....I request you publish this clarification of our Protestant, Reformed position.

Question: How can you believe both in God's foreknowledge and that man has the power of choice?

Question [similar to several others]: While I was in a Baptist church I heard nothing but "whosoever will may come"... [and no] emphasis on the sovereignty of God....I appreciate your stand for the truth [but] am grieved with the ongoing controversy....

Question: I’ve been told by a Calvinist that if I’m not a Calvinist, then I’m an Arminian. As a Christian, do I have to be one or the other?

Question: I think it is stunning that...the most influential Christians of the past 2,000 years have been Augustinians...

Question: Some Calvinists have argued that 2 Peter 2:12 clearly shows that there are some who are "made to be taken and destroyed." How do you explain this verse?

Question: You have attacked the teachings of Calvin and Augustine. We’ll see which lasts the longest and stands the test of time—the writings of Augustine and Calvin and their contribution to orthodox theology or those of the writers and staff of TBC....

Question: I am deeply concerned about the increasing frequency of articles and comments in TBC that are harshly critical of Calvinism....

Eternal Security

Paul declares, "...if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace, otherwise work is no more work" (Rom:11:6). Salvation ca

www.thebereancall.org

 

[Johann]

Yes they are condemned when they are born and in the purpose of God before they were created, the vessels of wrath are created to be condemned for their sin, and likewise the vessels of mercy are born and created to obtain mercy for their sins. Rom 9

ELECTION MEANS “TO CHOOSE”

by Yoki Maurx

“The doctrine of election is biblical and true” can be said by any Bible believing Christian. There have been numerous debates about the doctrine of election and reprobation for hundreds of years. Without defining terms, two people may have completely different understandings of the doctrine of election. Election, simply defined, means “to choose”. When such a common word is used, we must look at the surrounding context to determine the who, what, when, where, why, and how of the choice. According to The Lexham Bible Dictionary, the Greek terms associated with election (ἐκλέγομαι, eklegomai; ἐκλεκτός, eklektos; ἐκλογή, eklogē) also describe a choice or something that is chosen.”1

The reformed Calvinist would say that election means that God chose some people for salvation prior to the foundation of the world.

2 As a non-Calvinist who holds to the Traditional Southern Baptist or Provisionist view of Soteriology3 I will be defending the non-Calvinist view of election. I will show that divine election of individuals is conditional, corporate, and to service, not salvation.

In the same way that the logical end of unconditional election to salvation includes unconditional reprobation, the logical end of conditional election is a rejection that God reprobates anyone from before the foundation of the world. Elect, or some variation of the word, is used just over 225 times in the Bible, but only a few dozen of them can be construed to include salvation. In this paper, I will focus on Ephesians 1:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 as I defend my position.

Ephesians 1:4

“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.”4

Consistent hermeneutics demand that verses be read in context. The letter to the Ephesians was written to Christians, Ephesians 1:1 “To the saints who are in Ephesus and are faithful in Christ Jesus.”5 Paul then begins an exposition of the blessings that are theirs in Christ and, by extension, to all Christians, the Body of Christ, at all times and in every place wherever they may be.

Verse 3 shows this, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places.”6 Once the Christian is born again (John 3:3-7) by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:4-7) they receive every spiritual blessing immediately, in Christ, who is seated in the heavenly realm at the right hand of God. Furthermore, the Christian receives the promise of eternal life and all the promises of inheritance that are associated with it, the moment that they believe and trust in Christ for salvation.

Snodgrass, in his commentary on Ephesians 1:4, said that “Individuals are not elected and then put in Christ. They are in Christ and therefore elect.”

7 Klein agrees with Snodgrass and points out that “Christ is the principal elected one, and the corporate body included in him consists of the ones God has chosen.”8 Notice that it is God choosing what those of us who are in him will receive (Eph 1:5-14). We are not chosen “to be” in him but instead that those who have repented and believed and are now “in him” are promised and predestined to an inheritance, adoption, and to be holy and without blame. In Ephesians 1, the only being in the passage that existed before the foundations of the world is Christ, the elect one.

Ephesians 1 teaches that election has positional implications which can be seen by the fact that Paul uses the words “in him” no less then eleven times in Ephesians 1 alone. Paul is showing a positional truth. Richard Beals and Earl Radmacher wrote, “When we follow Paul’s use of the expression, we discover that to be in Christ means that in a real sense the Christian has been placed, located within Christ. In Christ signifies that whatever Jesus Christ is before God the Father, the believer shares his identity, because he or she is within the Savior.”9 Shawn Lazar, in his book Chosen to Serve, wrote, “Believers are predestined insofar as they are ‘in Christ’ and so share His identity… you are not individually elected from all eternity. The group is. The Body of Christ is. And you are put ‘in Christ’ when you believe in Him.”10 We do not need to read Ephesians 1:4 to mean that God is selecting specific individuals for salvation and thereby rejecting others. It is more likely that God was determining the means by which his people will be identified as his Children.

2 Peter 3:9

“The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.”11

The idea that God chooses some for salvation and then the remainder of humanity is reprobated to hell is a doctrine that neither scripture nor logic can support. If God is a maximumly great being, as Anselm argued for,12 then the maximumly great being must be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. Unless one wants to state that God is not omnibenevolent, then God, who is all-loving, must want the best for all people. This philosophical idea is supported by scripture here in 2 Peter 3:9.

Looking at the text, we see that the identity of the “any should perish” is linked to the “all” in 9b which would include any unsaved people who have not yet come to repentance. But some believe that the “any” points back to the personal pronoun “ὑμᾶς” (you) then the personal pronoun choice ὑμᾶς would point to the readers of this epistle as the “you”. Peter is writing to them as believers whom he believes already profess salvation, but that interpretive choice would go against the “come to repentance” phrase. Michael Green, in his commentary on 2 Peter wrote that “Peter’s third refutation of the scoffers is drawn from the nature of God and has many antecedents in Jewish apocalyptic thought. It is not slowness but patience that delays the consummation of all history and holds open the door to repentant sinners, even repentant scoffers.”13 God has always been slow to anger (Exod. 34:6), and God does not wish that any should perish but wants all to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4). God is ready to show his mercy upon all (Rom. 11:32) and has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but would rather have the wicked turn from his ways and live (Ezek. 18:23). God does not plan damnation for select individuals making them reprobates but instead gives all a real opportunity to come to repentance.

Conclusion

God choosing specific individuals for salvation may sound like such a loving thing to do; after all, God is not required to save anyone. But the doctrine of individual election to salvation from before the foundations of the world leaves those who hold to it with problems that do not have answers. If God is a maximumly great being, then he would not pass over those that he has the power to save and thereby reprobate them to hell. This belief removes the omnibenevolent attribute from God and omnibenevolence is a core aspect of what makes him God.

Election Means “To Choose”

by Yoki Maurx “The doctrine of election is biblical and true” can be said by any Bible believing Christian. There have been numerous debates about the doctrine of election and reprobati…

soteriology101.com

 

[Johann]

Yes they are condemned when they are born and in the purpose of God before they were created, the vessels of wrath are created to be condemned for their sin, and likewise the vessels of mercy are born and created to obtain mercy for their sins. Rom 9

320 thoughts on “Election Means “To Choose””

From the article:
The reformed Calvinist would say that election means that God chose some people for salvation prior to the foundation of the world

br.d
In Calvinism – per the doctrine of decrees – it LOGICALLY FOLLOWS – the function of “CHOICE” is the SOLE and EXCLUSIVE function of a Calvin’s god.

And ONLY Calvin’s god has the function of “CHOICE”.

ALL “CHOICES” without exception – concerning WHATSOEVER COMES TO PASS – are made at the foundation of the world – before any creature is created.

NOTHING is left UNDETERMINED
Therefore there is NOTHING left-over for any other being or creature to DETERMINE.

Additionally – the standard definition of “CHOICE” contains a NECESSARY CONDITION of multiple options available from which to select – and the ability to REFRAIN from one option or the other.

And the doctrine of decrees – LOGICALLY EXCLUDES all but one RENDERED-CERTAIN option for every event and every creaturely impulse.

And the doctrine of decrees – LOGICALLY EXCLUDES the creatures ability to REFRAIN.

No Option(s) + No ability to REFRAIN = NO CHOICE

In Calvinism – humans are NOT granted the function of “CHOICE” in the matter of anything.

Any PERCEPTION within the Calvinist’s mind of having the function of “CHOICE” is an infallibly decreed FALSE PERCEPTION.

And the Calvinist is forced to betray his own doctrine – in order to argue that his god grants him any CHOICE in the matter of anything.

Election Means “To Choose”

by Yoki Maurx “The doctrine of election is biblical and true” can be said by any Bible believing Christian. There have been numerous debates about the doctrine of election and reprobati…

soteriology101.com

 

[brightfame52]

Many sincere, Bible-believing Christian are "Calvinists" only by default. Thinking that the only choice is between Calvinism (with its presumed doctrine of eternal security) and Arminianism (with its teaching that salvation can be lost), and confident of Christ's promise to keep eternally those who believe in Him, they therefore consider themselves to be Calvinists. It takes only a few simple questions to discover that most Christians are largely unaware of what John Calvin and his early followers of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries actually believed and practiced. Nor do they fully understand the eternal implications and ramifications of what most of today's leading Calvinists preach and teach.

Among Calvinist's chief proponents there is general agreement on certain core beliefs. Many evangelicals who think they are Calvinists would be surprised to learn of Calvin's belief in salvation through infant baptism, and of his grossly un-Christian behavior, at times, as the "Protestant Pope" of Geneva, Switzerland.

Most shocking of all is Calvinism's misrepresentation of God who "is love." —Excerpt taken from Dave Hunt, What Love Is This?" fourth edition (Bend, OR: TBC, 2013), back cover

Key Scripture verses related to "Calvinism":

Old Testament:

Isaiah:45:22
Isaiah:55:1-7
Jeremiah:29:13
New Testament

Matthew:11:28
John:3:16
; Jn:4:10
; Jn:5:24
; Jn:7:17
; Jn:7:37
; Jn:20:3
Acts:16:31
Romans:10:9
Hebrews:11:6
1 Peter:1:23-25
Revelation:22:17


RELATED NEWSLETTERS
What a Sovereign God Cannot Do - Hunt, Dave Feb 2001
The Temporal Delusion (Part 1) - McMahon, T.A. Sep 2010
The Strange Fire Conference: Spiritual Discernment According to Calvinism - McMahon, T.A. Feb 2014
Who Can Understand the Gospel? - Hunt, Dave Apr 2012
The Enigma of Calvinism - McMahon, T.A. Dec 2015
Taste and See (Part 2) - Hunt, Dave Sep 2004
Taste and See (Part 1) - Hunt, Dave Aug 2004

TBC’s Mission: Damage Control - T. A. McMahon May 2021
What a Sovereign God Cannot Do (Revisited) - Dave Hunt Mar 2023

RELATED VIDEOS
QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES

Question: Why does Revelation 17:8 (and maybe Revelation 13:8, depending on the translation used) refer to those “whose names were not written in the book of life from the creation of the world...”?

Question: Were Adam and Eve created perfect? If so, how could they sin? If they were created with a will that could choose to sin, how could they have been perfect?

Question: [TBC's] statement that John Calvin taught that Infant Baptism saves betrays a regrettable ignorance of Calvin’s beliefs....I request you publish this clarification of our Protestant, Reformed position.

Question: How can you believe both in God's foreknowledge and that man has the power of choice?

Question [similar to several others]: While I was in a Baptist church I heard nothing but "whosoever will may come"... [and no] emphasis on the sovereignty of God....I appreciate your stand for the truth [but] am grieved with the ongoing controversy....

Question: I’ve been told by a Calvinist that if I’m not a Calvinist, then I’m an Arminian. As a Christian, do I have to be one or the other?

Question: I think it is stunning that...the most influential Christians of the past 2,000 years have been Augustinians...

Question: Some Calvinists have argued that 2 Peter 2:12 clearly shows that there are some who are "made to be taken and destroyed." How do you explain this verse?

Question: You have attacked the teachings of Calvin and Augustine. We’ll see which lasts the longest and stands the test of time—the writings of Augustine and Calvin and their contribution to orthodox theology or those of the writers and staff of TBC....

Question: I am deeply concerned about the increasing frequency of articles and comments in TBC that are harshly critical of Calvinism....

Eternal Security

Paul declares, "...if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace, otherwise work is no more work" (Rom:11:6). Salvation ca

www.thebereancall.org

when they are born and in the purpose of God before they were created, the vessels of wrath are created to be condemned for their sin, and likewise the vessels of mercy are born and created to obtain mercy for their sins. Rom 9

 

[Johann]

So what's going on in South Africa Johann? You do street preaching over there right?

Going through tumultuous times in real time-no, I am not a street preacher.
J.

 

[civic]

Great post and I fully concur.
Johann.

Yes we can be the 3 amigos as I concur.

 

[Johann]

Yes we can be the 3 amigos as I concur.

How are you amigo-