Data on John 1:1

[civic]

Again with the yes or no. Defense attorneys do this so the folks cannot explain. The Bible says I don't sin in him. Here's the verse...

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Matt 5:27
Let what you say be simply 'Yes' or 'No'; anything more than this comes from evil. 37 Just say a simple, 'Yes, I will,' or 'No, I won't. ' Anything beyond this is from the evil one.

your response is from the evil one, not from God.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Peterlag]

I get it-what about this?
1 John 1:8-10
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

Greek Grammar: The present active indicative "ἔχομεν" (echomen, "we have") in verse 8 shows an ongoing state, implying that even believers continue to have a struggle with sin. In verse 10, "ἡμαρτήκαμεν" (hēmartēkamen, "we have sinned") is in the perfect tense, indicating a past act with present implications—acknowledging that sin has an ongoing effect on the believer's life.

2. James 3:2
"For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body."

Greek Grammar: The verb "πταίομεν" (ptaïomen, "we stumble") is in the present active indicative, implying a continuous possibility of stumbling or sinning. James includes himself ("we all"), emphasizing that even believers are subject to sin in their conduct.

3. Romans 7:15-20
"For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do... Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me."

Greek Grammar: The use of present tense verbs like "ποιῶ" (poiō, "I do") highlights Paul's continuous struggle with sin. This grammatical choice emphasizes that sin remains a powerful force, even within believers, showing an ongoing internal conflict.

4. Galatians 6:1
"Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted."

Greek Grammar: "Προλημφθῇ" (prolemphthei, "overtaken") is an aorist passive subjunctive, denoting a single event where one falls into sin. The subjunctive here points to the potential of any believer succumbing to sin, highlighting vulnerability among even the spiritual.

5. 1 Corinthians 10:12
"Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall."

Greek Grammar: The subjunctive "πέσῃ" (pesei, "fall") indicates a potential action, warning believers that falling into sin is always a possibility. This warning applies to all believers, suggesting ongoing vigilance against sin.

6. Hebrews 12:1
"...let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us."

Greek Grammar: The noun "ἁμαρτίαν" (hamartian, "sin") in the accusative singular is modified by the adjective "εὐπερίστατον" (eupeistaton, "easily ensnaring"), indicating a characteristic of sin to cling to believers persistently. The grammar implies an ongoing need to set aside sin as it entangles the believer's walk.

7. 1 Corinthians 5:1-2
"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned..."

Greek Grammar: Here, the verb "ἀκούεται" (akouetai, "it is reported") is in the present passive indicative, suggesting that this sinful situation is ongoing within the church. The rebuke shows that believers can still fall into grievous sins, underscoring the need for repentance and correction.

8. Ephesians 4:26-27
"Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil."

Greek Grammar: The imperative "μὴ ἁμαρτάνετε" (mē hamartanete, "do not sin") uses the present active imperative, emphasizing a command to avoid sinning continuously. This implies that believers may become angry but must guard against sinning in that state.

9. 1 Timothy 5:20
"Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear."

Greek Grammar: "Ἁμαρτάνοντας" (hamartanontas, "those who are sinning") is a present active participle, indicating an ongoing action. It shows that even among leaders or church members, there is a present risk of sin, warranting correction.

10. 1 John 2:1
"My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

Greek Grammar: The aorist subjunctive "ἁμάρτῃ" (hamartē, "may sin") conveys a hypothetical situation, suggesting the possibility of a single instance of sin. However, it’s paired with the assurance of advocacy in Jesus, showing that sin may still occur for believers despite the admonition against it.

Each of these passages uses specific Greek grammar to emphasize the potential, persistence, and reality of sin among believers. Verbs in the present tense and participles emphasize ongoing susceptibility, while subjunctive and imperative forms address both warnings and hypothetical situations, indicating that sin remains a challenge even after one’s conversion.

I’m not trying to put you on the spot here, and I’m not looking for this to be reasoned away either. I can give you plenty of other examples in context if you’re interested. @Peterlag, we’re just having an open conversation, aiming to rightly divide the Scriptures together.

J.

I would be interested in a couple of verses at a time so I could respond to them and not 25. I already gave you my take on Romans 7 and yet you post it here again...

I have had a number of Christians tell me about Romans 7when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. Romans 7 tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about Israel and their Law and how they toy with their flesh. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we over come this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

Here's first John...

A belief system called Gnosticism was taking root in Christianity at the time the book of John was being written that taught there was a supreme and unknowable Being, which they designated as the "Monad." The Monad produced various gods, who in turn produced other gods, and one of these gods called the "Demiurge" created the earth and then ruled over it as an angry, evil and jealous god. Gnostics believe this evil god was the god of the Old Testament who is called"Elohim" and so the Monad had to send another god known as the "Christ"to bring special knowledge to mankind and free them from the influence of the evil Elohim. And this is why the gnostics do not seek salvation from repenting of their sin(but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence) that they believe the evil creator God and his angels caused. They emphasize salvation of select humans from bodily existence through their awakening to the knowledge of their original divine identity. I believe the Apostle John had them on his mind when he wrote the Epistle of 1 John saying you must realize you have sin and repent. John was not talking to the already saved Christian as the Catholics would like you to believe.

I see this 1 John chapter 1 and 2 as we are either walking in our old dead nature if we are into sin. Or we are walking in the spirit if we are not into sin.

Chapter 1
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
6. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

7"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth usfrom all sin."
7. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
8. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
9. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
10. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

Chapter 2
1"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
1. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
2. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
3. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
4. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

5 "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
5. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
6. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

 

[civic]

Again with the yes or no. Defense attorneys do this so the folks cannot explain. The Bible says I don't sin in him. Here's the verse...

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

I learned to ask questions like Jesus. But you avoid them which speaks volumes.

John 5- When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time, he asked him, “Do you want to get well?”

Now back to the sin question and remember let you test be yes and your no be no.

Have you sinned once this year in 2024 ? yes or no

 

[Johann]

I see this 1 John chapter 1 and 2 as we are either walking in our old dead nature if we are into sin. Or we are walking in the spirit if we are not into sin.

I stopped right here.

1Jn_1:8 "If we say that we have no sin" This is another third class conditional sentence. Sin is a spiritual reality in a fallen world, even for believers (cf. Romans 7). John's Gospel addresses this issue often (cf. Joh_9:41; Joh_15:22; Joh_15:24; Joh_19:11). This verse rejects all ancient and modern claims that deny individual moral responsibility.

"we are deceiving ourselves" This Greek phrase refers to personal, willful rejection of truth, not ignorance.

"the truth is not in us" The way to acceptance by a Holy God is not denial, but recognition of our sin and acceptance of His provision in Christ (cf. Rom_3:21-31). "The truth" can refer to the message about Jesus or the person of Jesus (cf. Joh_14:6). See Special Topics at Joh_6:55; Joh_17:3.

1Jn_1:8-9 "If" These are both third class conditional sentences which means potential action.

1Jn_1:9 "confess" This is a compound Greek term from "to speak" and "the same." Believers continue to agree with God that they have violated His holiness (cf. Rom_3:23). It is present tense, which implies ongoing action. Confession implies

1. a specific naming of sins (1Jn_1:9)

2. a public admitting of sins (cf. Mat_10:32; Jas_5:16)

3. a turning from specific sins (cf. Mat_3:6; Mar_1:5; Act_19:18; Jas_5:16)

1 John uses this term quite often (cf. 1Jn_1:9; 1Jn_4:2-3; 1Jn_4:15; 2Jn_1:7). Jesus' death is the means of forgiveness, but sinful mankind must respond and continue to respond in faith to be saved (cf. Joh_1:12; Joh_3:16). See Special Topic: Confession at Joh_9:22-23.

"our sins" Notice the plural. This refers to specific acts of sin.

"He is faithful" This refers to God the Father (cf. Deu_7:9; Deu_32:4; Psa_36:5; Psa_40:10; Psa_89:1-2; Psa_89:5; Psa_89:8; Psa_92:2; Psa_119:90; Isa_49:7; Rom_3:3; 1Co_1:9; 1Co_10:13; 2Co_1:18; 1Th_5:24; 2Ti_2:13). God the Father's unchanging, merciful, faithful character is our surest hope! This phrase accentuates God's faithfulness to His Word (cf. Heb_10:23; Heb_11:11). This may also refer to God's New Covenant promise made in Jer_31:34, which promised the forgiveness of sins.

"and righteous" This term is unusual in a context related to a holy God freely pardoning unholy people. However, this is theologically accurate because God takes our sins seriously, yet He has provided the means for our forgiveness in the substitutionary death of Christ (cf. Rom_3:21-31). See Special Topic at 1Jn_2:29.

"forgive . . . cleanse" These are both aorist active subjunctives. These two terms are synonymous in this context; they refer both to the salvation of the lost and to the ongoing cleansing necessary for fellowship with God (cf. Isa_1:18; Isa_38:17; Isa_43:25; Isa_44:22; Psa_103:3; Psa_103:11-13; Mic_7:19). The false teachers who denied the gospel, needed salvation. Believers who continue to commit acts of sin need restoration of fellowship. John seems to address the first group implicitly and the second explicitly.
1Jn_1:10 "If we say" See note at 1Jn_1:6.

"we have not sinned" This is a perfect active indicative which implies that one has never sinned in the past nor in the present. The term "sinned" is singular and refers to sin in general. The Greek term means "to miss the mark." This means that sin is both the commission and the omission of the things revealed in God's Word. The false teachers claimed salvation was related only to knowledge, not to life.

"we make Him a liar" The gospel is based on the sinfulness of all mankind (cf. Rom_3:9-18; Rom_3:23; Rom_5:1; Rom_11:32). Either God (cf. Rom_3:4) or those who claim sinlessness, is lying.
This from Utley.

J.

 

[civic]

I stopped right here.

1Jn_1:8 "If we say that we have no sin" This is another third class conditional sentence. Sin is a spiritual reality in a fallen world, even for believers (cf. Romans 7). John's Gospel addresses this issue often (cf. Joh_9:41; Joh_15:22; Joh_15:24; Joh_19:11). This verse rejects all ancient and modern claims that deny individual moral responsibility.

"we are deceiving ourselves" This Greek phrase refers to personal, willful rejection of truth, not ignorance.

"the truth is not in us" The way to acceptance by a Holy God is not denial, but recognition of our sin and acceptance of His provision in Christ (cf. Rom_3:21-31). "The truth" can refer to the message about Jesus or the person of Jesus (cf. Joh_14:6). See Special Topics at Joh_6:55; Joh_17:3.

1Jn_1:8-9 "If" These are both third class conditional sentences which means potential action.

1Jn_1:9 "confess" This is a compound Greek term from "to speak" and "the same." Believers continue to agree with God that they have violated His holiness (cf. Rom_3:23). It is present tense, which implies ongoing action. Confession implies

1. a specific naming of sins (1Jn_1:9)

2. a public admitting of sins (cf. Mat_10:32; Jas_5:16)

3. a turning from specific sins (cf. Mat_3:6; Mar_1:5; Act_19:18; Jas_5:16)

1 John uses this term quite often (cf. 1Jn_1:9; 1Jn_4:2-3; 1Jn_4:15; 2Jn_1:7). Jesus' death is the means of forgiveness, but sinful mankind must respond and continue to respond in faith to be saved (cf. Joh_1:12; Joh_3:16). See Special Topic: Confession at Joh_9:22-23.

"our sins" Notice the plural. This refers to specific acts of sin.

"He is faithful" This refers to God the Father (cf. Deu_7:9; Deu_32:4; Psa_36:5; Psa_40:10; Psa_89:1-2; Psa_89:5; Psa_89:8; Psa_92:2; Psa_119:90; Isa_49:7; Rom_3:3; 1Co_1:9; 1Co_10:13; 2Co_1:18; 1Th_5:24; 2Ti_2:13). God the Father's unchanging, merciful, faithful character is our surest hope! This phrase accentuates God's faithfulness to His Word (cf. Heb_10:23; Heb_11:11). This may also refer to God's New Covenant promise made in Jer_31:34, which promised the forgiveness of sins.

"and righteous" This term is unusual in a context related to a holy God freely pardoning unholy people. However, this is theologically accurate because God takes our sins seriously, yet He has provided the means for our forgiveness in the substitutionary death of Christ (cf. Rom_3:21-31). See Special Topic at 1Jn_2:29.

"forgive . . . cleanse" These are both aorist active subjunctives. These two terms are synonymous in this context; they refer both to the salvation of the lost and to the ongoing cleansing necessary for fellowship with God (cf. Isa_1:18; Isa_38:17; Isa_43:25; Isa_44:22; Psa_103:3; Psa_103:11-13; Mic_7:19). The false teachers who denied the gospel, needed salvation. Believers who continue to commit acts of sin need restoration of fellowship. John seems to address the first group implicitly and the second explicitly.
1Jn_1:10 "If we say" See note at 1Jn_1:6.

"we have not sinned" This is a perfect active indicative which implies that one has never sinned in the past nor in the present. The term "sinned" is singular and refers to sin in general. The Greek term means "to miss the mark." This means that sin is both the commission and the omission of the things revealed in God's Word. The false teachers claimed salvation was related only to knowledge, not to life.

"we make Him a liar" The gospel is based on the sinfulness of all mankind (cf. Rom_3:9-18; Rom_3:23; Rom_5:1; Rom_11:32). Either God (cf. Rom_3:4) or those who claim sinlessness, is lying.
This from Utley.

J.

Yes making God a liar. But since we know God cannot lie then we know who is the deceiver and the one being deceived

 

[Johann]

Yes making God a liar. But since we know God cannot lie then we know who is the deceiver and the one being deceived

The issue is that no one appears willing to acknowledge that they might be mistaken. I certainly don't have all the answers, and yet no one is open to accepting correction-it feels like WWE Raw, a true Last Man Standing match.

J.

 

[Peterlag]

I stopped right here.

1Jn_1:8 "If we say that we have no sin" This is another third class conditional sentence. Sin is a spiritual reality in a fallen world, even for believers (cf. Romans 7). John's Gospel addresses this issue often (cf. Joh_9:41; Joh_15:22; Joh_15:24; Joh_19:11). This verse rejects all ancient and modern claims that deny individual moral responsibility.

"we are deceiving ourselves" This Greek phrase refers to personal, willful rejection of truth, not ignorance.

"the truth is not in us" The way to acceptance by a Holy God is not denial, but recognition of our sin and acceptance of His provision in Christ (cf. Rom_3:21-31). "The truth" can refer to the message about Jesus or the person of Jesus (cf. Joh_14:6). See Special Topics at Joh_6:55; Joh_17:3.

1Jn_1:8-9 "If" These are both third class conditional sentences which means potential action.

1Jn_1:9 "confess" This is a compound Greek term from "to speak" and "the same." Believers continue to agree with God that they have violated His holiness (cf. Rom_3:23). It is present tense, which implies ongoing action. Confession implies

1. a specific naming of sins (1Jn_1:9)

2. a public admitting of sins (cf. Mat_10:32; Jas_5:16)

3. a turning from specific sins (cf. Mat_3:6; Mar_1:5; Act_19:18; Jas_5:16)

1 John uses this term quite often (cf. 1Jn_1:9; 1Jn_4:2-3; 1Jn_4:15; 2Jn_1:7). Jesus' death is the means of forgiveness, but sinful mankind must respond and continue to respond in faith to be saved (cf. Joh_1:12; Joh_3:16). See Special Topic: Confession at Joh_9:22-23.

"our sins" Notice the plural. This refers to specific acts of sin.

"He is faithful" This refers to God the Father (cf. Deu_7:9; Deu_32:4; Psa_36:5; Psa_40:10; Psa_89:1-2; Psa_89:5; Psa_89:8; Psa_92:2; Psa_119:90; Isa_49:7; Rom_3:3; 1Co_1:9; 1Co_10:13; 2Co_1:18; 1Th_5:24; 2Ti_2:13). God the Father's unchanging, merciful, faithful character is our surest hope! This phrase accentuates God's faithfulness to His Word (cf. Heb_10:23; Heb_11:11). This may also refer to God's New Covenant promise made in Jer_31:34, which promised the forgiveness of sins.

"and righteous" This term is unusual in a context related to a holy God freely pardoning unholy people. However, this is theologically accurate because God takes our sins seriously, yet He has provided the means for our forgiveness in the substitutionary death of Christ (cf. Rom_3:21-31). See Special Topic at 1Jn_2:29.

"forgive . . . cleanse" These are both aorist active subjunctives. These two terms are synonymous in this context; they refer both to the salvation of the lost and to the ongoing cleansing necessary for fellowship with God (cf. Isa_1:18; Isa_38:17; Isa_43:25; Isa_44:22; Psa_103:3; Psa_103:11-13; Mic_7:19). The false teachers who denied the gospel, needed salvation. Believers who continue to commit acts of sin need restoration of fellowship. John seems to address the first group implicitly and the second explicitly.
1Jn_1:10 "If we say" See note at 1Jn_1:6.

"we have not sinned" This is a perfect active indicative which implies that one has never sinned in the past nor in the present. The term "sinned" is singular and refers to sin in general. The Greek term means "to miss the mark." This means that sin is both the commission and the omission of the things revealed in God's Word. The false teachers claimed salvation was related only to knowledge, not to life.

"we make Him a liar" The gospel is based on the sinfulness of all mankind (cf. Rom_3:9-18; Rom_3:23; Rom_5:1; Rom_11:32). Either God (cf. Rom_3:4) or those who claim sinlessness, is lying.
This from Utley.

J.

I am made the righteousness of God in him. I can't be that holy and still be a sinner. And again it's "in him" which means in the spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:21

 

[Johann]

I am made the righteousness of God in him. I can't be that holy and still be a sinner. And again it's "in him" which means in the spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:21

No further questions brother.

J.

 

[brightfame52]

@Peterlag

All men are born with a sin nature

What can a man do about his sinful nature?

 

[TomL]

I stopped right here.

1Jn_1:8 "If we say that we have no sin" This is another third class conditional sentence. Sin is a spiritual reality in a fallen world, even for believers (cf. Romans 7). John's Gospel addresses this issue often (cf. Joh_9:41; Joh_15:22; Joh_15:24; Joh_19:11). This verse rejects all ancient and modern claims that deny individual moral responsibility.

"we are deceiving ourselves" This Greek phrase refers to personal, willful rejection of truth, not ignorance.

"the truth is not in us" The way to acceptance by a Holy God is not denial, but recognition of our sin and acceptance of His provision in Christ (cf. Rom_3:21-31). "The truth" can refer to the message about Jesus or the person of Jesus (cf. Joh_14:6). See Special Topics at Joh_6:55; Joh_17:3.

1Jn_1:8-9 "If" These are both third class conditional sentences which means potential action.

Conditional Statement (Third Class)


This construction consists of εαν followed by a verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis followed by a verb in any mood and any tense in the apodosis. It provides a semantic value of “future potentiality.”



James Parks, Greek Grammatical Constructions Documentation (Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2015).

The third class condition often presents the condition as uncertain of fulfillment, but still likely. There are, however, many exceptions to this. It is difficult to give one semantic label to this structure, especially in Hellenistic Greek (note the discussion below). The structure of the protasis involves the particle ἐάν followed by a subjunctive mood in any tense. Both the particle (a combination of εἰ and the particle ἄν) and the subjunctive give the condition a sense of contingency. The apodosis can have any tense and any mood. This is a common category of conditional clauses, occurring nearly 300 times in the NT.28

Daniel B. Wallace, Greek Grammar beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1996), 696.

 

[Johann]

Conditional Statement (Third Class)


This construction consists of εαν followed by a verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis followed by a verb in any mood and any tense in the apodosis. It provides a semantic value of “future potentiality.”



James Parks, Greek Grammatical Constructions Documentation (Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2015).

The third class condition often presents the condition as uncertain of fulfillment, but still likely. There are, however, many exceptions to this. It is difficult to give one semantic label to this structure, especially in Hellenistic Greek (note the discussion below). The structure of the protasis involves the particle ἐάν followed by a subjunctive mood in any tense. Both the particle (a combination of εἰ and the particle ἄν) and the subjunctive give the condition a sense of contingency. The apodosis can have any tense and any mood. This is a common category of conditional clauses, occurring nearly 300 times in the NT.28

Daniel B. Wallace, Greek Grammar beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1996), 696.

Your post is in agreement with mine.

J.

 

[TomL]

Your post is in agreement with mine.

J.

Yes just expounding on the definition of a third class conditional from my sources

 

[Peterlag]

@Peterlag



What can a man do about his sinful nature?

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ.The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam?The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

 

[brightfame52]

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ.The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam?The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

Im confused, what can a person do about their sin nature?

 

[TomL]

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ.The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam?The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

The spirit of a mere man?

 

[Peterlag]

Im confused, what can a person do about their sin nature?

Christians don't have a sin nature.

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

 

[101G]

Christians don't have a sin nature.

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

NONESENSE. from birth we're innocent, and as we grow up we learn how to sin. and if one confess the Lord Jesus as our saviour and is baptized we shall be save. for our past sin before coming to Christ is over one head. scripture, Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

BINGO, "for the remission of sins that are past" so what one need to do is hear God/Gospel, and repent. confess the Lord Jesus, and believe Jesus was raised from the dead. and if one sin after coming to Christ. A. we confess our sins, per 1 John 1:8 & 9. and we have an advocate who mediate on our behalf.

so one believes, and confess the Lord Jesus, and Live by Faith until God, the Lord Jesus returns.

101G.

 

[brightfame52]

Christians don't have a sin nature.

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

Christians do have a sin nature, the flesh Rom 7, and prior to a New Birth, thats all they have is a sin nature. What can the natural man do about his sin nature ?

 

[Peterlag]

Christians do have a sin nature, the flesh Rom 7, and prior to a New Birth, thats all they have is a sin nature. What can the natural man do about his sin nature ?

I have had a number of Christians tell me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. Romans 7 tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about Israel and their Law and how they toy with their flesh. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

 

[Peterlag]

NONESENSE. from birth we're innocent, and as we grow up we learn how to sin. and if one confess the Lord Jesus as our saviour and is baptized we shall be save. for our past sin before coming to Christ is over one head. scripture, Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

BINGO, "for the remission of sins that are past" so what one need to do is hear God/Gospel, and repent. confess the Lord Jesus, and believe Jesus was raised from the dead. and if one sin after coming to Christ. A. we confess our sins, per 1 John 1:8 & 9. and we have an advocate who mediate on our behalf.

so one believes, and confess the Lord Jesus, and Live by Faith until God, the Lord Jesus returns.

101G.

I wish you guys knew how to read the Bible because it would make this a lot easier. The context can be picked up in verse 9. Paul is writing about the Jews and the Gentiles and not the Christians...

Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;