Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[Capbook]

Capbook:

I've got news for you. None of the Bible translations that have ever existed--including the King James Version--were translated by inspiration of Jehovah God. Only the original writings of the Judeo-Christian Bible were penned by inspiration of God. And the original writings have long since disappeared and were replaced by copies, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Do the "original writings," mean to you as the papyrus, parchment (animal skin), and, for the very earliest textual fragments, silver and clay/stone as were inspired or the original Bible words?

Do you know what "textual criticism" means Alter2Ego?

The only requirement of a translation of ANY writing is that it relay the same sentiment found in the original writings so that someone reading it in a different language is able to get the exact same understanding, regardless of which language they are reading it in.

Again, you promote paraphrase Bible translations the product of the translators thoughts not from the original Bible words.
Alter@Ego, modern translations that abide in the process of "textual criticism" aims to restore the original Bible languages not from their own thoughts.
That's why there's the Strong Concordance that assigned numbers to original Bible words and Bible Lexicons that define original Bible words what it means at the time it was used.

The fact that I've been able to quote from various Bible translations in many of my posts, including Trinitarian Bible translations, is evidence that ALL Bible translations are saying the same thing when CONTEXT is paid attention to. Unfortunately, Trinitarians consistently run from context because they do not want to be corrected by scripture.

The context you mean absolutely comes from the translators thoughts not from the original Bible wordings.
I did say to you negating Strong Concordance, Bible lexicons and textual criticism processed Bible translations is also degrading the NWT that it's source is only from the translators thoughts not from the original Bible words.

 

[Capbook]

The name Jehovah is the Latinized version of the Tetragrammaton, true. But what has that to do with the topic of this thread?

Here, you did answer "true" but you add statements.
It's important as it proves that you and your church does not used the original personal name of the Father.

You are trying to change the goal post. It's called stalling. What are you running from? Oh, now I remember. You're running from the fact that Christendom's 3-in-1 god is pagan in origin and that you--as a Trinitarian--are disobeying Almighty Jehovah God who made it clear that he is singular.

It's not stalling, it just weakens the foundation of your faith.
Yes, the Tetragrammaton is one. Scripture said it.

Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Yisra’ěl: יהוה our Elohim, יהוה is one!

“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." (Deuteronomy 6:4 -- New World Translation)

https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=deuteronomy+6%3A4&link=%2Fresults%2FE%2Fbible%3Fsort%3Drel%26q%3D

"Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:" (Deuteronomy 6:4 -- American Standard Version)

Deuteronomy 6 ASV

"Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;" (Deuteronomy 6:4 -- Young's Literal Translation)

Deuteronomy 6 YLT

"Hear, Israel; Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." (Deuteronomy 6:4 -- Smith's Literal Translation

Deuteronomy 6 Smith's Literal Translation

"Hear, Israel: LORD JEHOVAH our God, LORD JEHOVAH is one:" (Deuteronomy 6:4 --Peshitta Holy Bible Translated"

Deuteronomy 6 Peshitta Holy Bible Translated

Look at the above. In addition to the New World Translation (published by Jehovah's people) even some of the Trinitarian Bible translators had the decency to include the most commonly accepted English translation of the Divine name in small portions of their Bibles. And you're making an issue of Jehovah's Witnesses using it? You should be ashamed for not doing likewise!

Again, see how the original personal name of the Father written, text below.

Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Yisra’ěl: יהוה our Elohim, יהוה is one!

 

[Capbook]

That's true, FreeInChrist. But you're ignoring the fact that scripture says in the book of Colossians that Jesus was created by Jehovah the Father before everything else was created.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. (Colossians 1:15 -- New American Bible)

Colossians 1 New American Bible

The word "firstborn, in that specific text of Col 1:15, with Strong#G4416, in Greek "πρωτότοκος prōtotokos" defined by credentialed lexicographers, Louw and Nida Based on Semantic Domain means as - pertaining to existing prior to something else - 'existing first, existing before.' existing before all creation' or 'existing before anything was created' Col 1:15.

Alter2Ego, proves that the "firstborn" in context means existing first and etc, but not created first.

G4416
πρωτότοκος prōtotokos
pertaining to existing prior to something else - 'existing first, existing before.'
existing before all creation' or 'existing before anything was created' Col 1:15.
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

 

[FreeInChrist]

FreeInChrist:

John 1:1, at Clause #1, says point blank that the person referred to as "the Word" aka Jesus the son, had a beginning. It says:

"In the beginning was the Word...." That word applies specifically to Jesus Christ at John 1:1 and makes no mention of the Father.

Incredible.... the lack of understanding.

In the beginning was the Word..... The Word was with God .... and the Word was God.

John 1:14

John 1:14 in the King James Version states, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Know this....

John 1:1 places the Word already existing at “the beginning”

John 1:14 identifies when the Word became flesh

Matthew 1 / Luke 1 identify when the name “Jesus” was given

Scripture never uses the name Jesus prior to the incarnation

What you must remember is that

The Word is not the name Jesus ~ The Word existed before the incarnation,~
but “Jesus” is the name of the incarnate Son, not a pre-creation personal name.

John 1:1 does not say the Word had a beginning. It says that when the beginning occurred, the Word already was. That point is not in dispute.

What is in dispute is the claim that the Word was called Jesus before the incarnation.

But Scripture is explicit and says....

“The Word was made flesh” (John 1:14)

“You shall call His name Jesus” (Matt 1:21; Luke 1:31)

The name Jesus is given at conception, not before creation.


From Genesis to the Gospels.....roughly 4,000 years......there is no use of the name Jesus anywhere in Scripture. The Son of God is spoken of, the Word is spoken of, the Messiah is promised.......but the name Jesus does not exist until the incarnation.

So you assumptions are incorrect.

Definition of beginning:
1. The act or process of bringing or being brought into being; a start: the beginning of the universe.
2.
a. The time when something begins or is begun: the beginning of June.
b. The place where something begins or is begun: at the beginning of the road.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/beginning

Scripture says Jehovah, the Father, does not have a beginning.

"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (Psalm 90:2 -- New International Version)


Definition of everlasting:
1: lasting or enduring through all time : eternal

Definition of EVERLASTING

lasting or enduring through all time : eternal; continuing for a long time or indefinitely; having or being flowers or foliage that retain form or color for a long time when dried… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of eternal:
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (temporal ).

ETERNAL Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

ETERNAL definition: without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (temporal ). See examples of eternal used in a sentence.

www.dictionary.com

 

[FreeInChrist]

That's true, FreeInChrist. But you're ignoring the fact that scripture says in the book of Colossians that Jesus was created by Jehovah the Father before everything else was created.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. (Colossians 1:15 -- New American Bible)

Colossians 1 New American Bible

@Alter2Ego

Colossians 1:15 does not say Jesus was created. It says he is the firstborn of all creation. The Greek word prototokos refers to rank and inheritance, not origin. Scripture uses “firstborn” this way repeatedly (Ps 89:27; Exod 4:22).

And Paul explains what he means in the very next verses: “By him all things were created… He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” If Christ were a created being, he would be part of “all things,” which Paul explicitly places under him.

“Firstborn” means preeminent heir, not first thing created.

@Alter2Ego

Tell me and all of us

“Where does Scripture explicitly say Jesus was created?”

Not implied, or Not interpreted, but Explicitly.
In 42 translations of the Holy Scriptures I find no single verse that says.....
“Jesus was created” or “The Son was made” or “God created the Word”

Now lets consider this.......... FACT: John 1 uses two different verbs:

ēn = was (continuous existence)

egeneto = came into being

Now watch how carefully John applies them.....

“In the beginning was the Word”
“All things came into being through him” (John 1:1–3)

If the Word was created, John would have said so. He didn’t.
And another question.....

Is Jesus included in ''all things''? Before you answer read...................

Colossians 1:16: “By him all things were created”

John 1:3: “Apart from him not even one thing came into being that has come into being”

If Jesus was created.....He must be included in “all things” but Scripture explicitly excludes him from that category

This is just plain logic.

Also,,, there is a verse that is not in the bible to make your belief a reality....

To make “Jesus was created” work, you assume something the Bible never says

“Jesus was created before everything else”

That phrase is nowhere in Scripture but is needed to make the theory work.

You simply have theology filling a gap the text doesn’t give.

I should stop now... but alas.... I cannot.

Fact...The name “Jesus” begins at the incarnation. Fact...The Word/Son existed before that

So here is the real wuestion to be answered...........Was the pre-incarnate Word created, or simply already existing? And keep in mind the Bible consistently uses existence language, not creation language.

What all this means is Scripture never says Jesus was created. What it does say is that all things that came into being came into being through him (John 1:3) and that by him all things were created (Col 1:16). If Jesus were created, he would be part of “all things,” which Scripture explicitly places under him.

The name “Jesus” begins at the incarnation; the Word already was.

 

[atpollard]

But a natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him [her]; and he [she] cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
- 1 Corinthians 2:14 [NASB]

For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
- Romans 1:21-22 [NASB]

 

[civic]

No discussion possible. Jesus specifically mentions Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Mat 28:19, so in some form/sense, the trinity exists.

Yep it takes pots of theological gymnastics to dismiss the One Name believers are baptized into- the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Its right there in front of everyones eyes to accept its truth or deny it and make Jesus out to be a false teacher. Those are the only two options.

 

[Titus]

Titus 2:13,
- looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Paul calls Jesus God and Savior.
Titus is told by Paul to look, wait for Jesus' return.
That glorious appearing of who?
Who is returning?
Paul says the one returning is the great God aka Savior Jesus Christ.

Titus 2:13,
- awaiting for that blessed hope and glorious appearing of the great God....

Who's returning according to Paul? the great God
Who are christians told to be awaiting for their return?
Answer: God

Jesus is the one who takes away the sins of man.
What does the Bible say about a man taking away the sins of other men?
Answer: impossible because only the perfect can be acceptable to God,
1Peter 1:18-19,
- not with corruptible things but with the precious blood of Christ as a lamb without blemish and without spot

Only God is perfect, Jesus' perfect nature is His evidence of His divinity.
- for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God

Matthew 5:48,
- be ye perfect even as your Father which in heaven is perfect
Jesus teaches God alone embodies perfection, mankind can only strive for it.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Bob Carabbio said:
No discussion possible. Jesus specifically mentions Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Mat 28:19, so in some form/sense, the trinity exists.

Yep it takes pots of theological gymnastics to dismiss the One Name believers are baptized into- the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Its right there in front of everyones eyes to accept its truth or deny it and make Jesus out to be a false teacher. Those are the only two options.

You both know... everyone knows I am only a 100% card carrying believer in the Trinity... but now even I have to interject an EXCEPT.

The more I read the bible and study and do research the dumber I think people were back in the day... and I am referring to Jesus' day when people heard him speak and specifically when "his people were charged with specific duties one being Matt 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

That came from Jesus' mouth. It came at such a time that they had to know who Jesus was, though vs 17 says
17When they saw Him, they worshiped [Him]; but some were doubtful. ( makes me wonder if among the things DNA carries forward is a belief system of acceptance or doubt... I'll say no more )

They did not do it... and I have read that several times that they did not start then to baptize as Jesus told them

The following has some interesting info, and it tells me that we cannot use that Matt 28:19 for Trinity proof because they did not use it back then when it would have been fairly certain of the Trinity... By their delaying it sounds as if it was someone's lay opinion as to the inclusion or not... and messed up a whole lot of info for us.

Just a question.... If they did not do what Jesus told them until the 2nd century, and continued in the old way.....
does that mean those people back then were not baptized because it was not proper?

But Apostolic Archives says....

History of Baptism in Jesus' Name

Britannica Encyclopedia, 11th Edition, Volume 3, page 365 - Baptism was changed from the name of Jesus to words Father, Son & Holy Ghost in 2nd Century. Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53 - The early church baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the second century.

[td]

[td]

BAPTISM
IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST​

[/td]​

[td]

HOW DID THE EARLY CHURCH INTERPRET CHRIST'S COMMAND IN MATTHEW 28:19? ACTS 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, and 19:5 are four Biblical references that answer this question. If the Biblical record is not enough, please examine the findings of the educated, scholars, and historians.​

[/td]​

[td]

Britannica Encyclopedia, 11th Edition, Volume 3, page 365 – Baptism was changed from the name of Jesus to words Father, Son & Holy Ghost in 2nd Century.
Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53 – The early church baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the second century.
Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion, Volume 2 – Christian baptism was administered using the words, "in the name of Jesus." page 377. Baptism was always in the name of Jesus until time of Justin Martyr, page 389.
Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 2, page 263 – Here the authors acknowledged that the baptismal formula was changed by their church.
Schaff – Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Volume 1, page 435 – The New Testament knows only the baptism in the name of Jesus.
Hastings Dictionary of Bible, page 88 – It must be acknowledged that the three fold name of Matthew 28:19 does not appear to have been used by the primitive church, but rather in the name of Jesus, Jesus Christ or Lord Jesus.​

[/td]​

[td]

IS IT AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY THAT THE NAME OF JESUS BE SPOKEN OR CALLED OVER A CANDIDATE FOR WATER BAPTISM WHEN HE IS BEING BAPTIZED? For the answer to this question, please read Acts 15:17 and James 2:7 [Greek Linear]. First Century Christians INVOKED OR CALLED the name of Jesus over believers in water baptism. If, as some say, "the name of Jesus means the authority of Jesus', then so much more should the NAME, rather than titles, be called over an individual in baptism. Read Matthew 28:18, Acts 4:12 and Colossians 2:9. Jude 3 is an exhortation to "CONTEND FOR THE FAITH ONCE DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS." See Galations 1:8-9 also. Should anyone dare to change what Christ and the Apostles established?​

[/td]​

[td]

BAPTISM​

[/td]
[td]

1. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON & HOLY GHOST
-or-
2. IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST​

[/td]​

[td]

Which of These Were Practiced
By the Apostles in the Early Church?​

[/td]​

[td]

BELOW ARE TWO COLUMNS FOR LISTING THE SCRIPTURES WHERE THE APOSTLES EITHER TAUGHT OR PRACTICED WATER BAPTISM.​

[/td]​

[td]

IN JESUS NAME​

JEWS – "Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ. Acts 2:38.
SAMARITANS – They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 8:16.
GENTILES – He commanded them to be baptized in the name of Lord Jesus. Acts 10:48.
PETER TAUGHT – There is none other name given whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12.
PAUL TAUGHT – Whatever you do, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus. Col. 3:17.​

[/td]​

[td]

FATHER, SON AND HOLY GHOST​

[/td]​

[td]

Matthew 28:19 was a command by Jesus to baptize in a NAME. The Apostles did not repeat the words of the command, but they did obey it as seen in the scriptures above. Since Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are titles of the mainifestations of the Almighty Spirit and His body, the Apostles understood His SAVING NAME to be JESUS. Can any dare say that the Apostles disobeyed the Lord, or failed to baptize properly? THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY GHOST IS LORD JESUS CHRIST. The actions of the Apostles in the Book of Acts prove this to be true.​

[/td]​

BAPTISM IN JESUS NAME​

According to The Bible​

[td]

JESUS TAUGHT – THAT REPENTANCE & REMISSION OF SINS SHOULD BE PREACHED IN HIS NAME BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM." Luke 24:47
PETER OBEYED – "REPENT & BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS." Acts 2:38-39
SAMARITANS – ". . .THEY WERE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS." Acts 8:16
GENTILES WERE COMMANDED – "HE COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF LORD JESUS." RV. Acts 10:48
PAUL RE-BAPTIZED – ". . . WHEN THEY HEARD THIS THEY WERE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS." Acts 19:3-5
NO OTHER NAME FOR SALVATION – ". . .THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED." Acts 4:10-12
EVERYTHING DONE IN JESUS NAME – "WHATSOEVER YOU DO IN WORD OR IN DEED, DO ALL IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS." Col. 3:17​

[/td]​

[td]

The above scriptures are not given to refute Matthew 28:19 where JESUS told Apostles to baptize in the name of the FATHER, & OF THE SON, & OF THE HOLY GHOST. They merely show how the command was interpreted and obeyed by them.
The Apostles knew what most religious leaders of today fail to recognize. First: That the Lord Jesus Christ is the family name. Eph. 3:15. Second: That the FULNESS of the GODHEAD (Deity or God) dwelleth bodily in CHRIST. Col 2:9
They knew the name of the SON was JESUS. Matthew 1:21. They knew that the SON came in the FATHER'S name. John 5:43. They also knew that the HOLY GHOST was the SPIRIT of CHRIST and would come in JESUS NAME. John 14:26.
The name JESUS means JEHOVA SALVATION. Faussets' Bible Encyclopedia. Page 359.​

[/td]​

BAPTISM IN JESUS NAME​

According to History​

BRITANICA ENCYCLO. – The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son & Holy Ghost by Catholic Church in the second century. 11th Edition, Vol 3, page 365-366.
BRITANICA ENCYCLO. – Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ. Vol. 3, page 82.
CANNEY ENCYCLO. OF REL. – The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until development of Trinity Doctrine in 2nd century. Page 53.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLO. – Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church. Vol. 2, Page 263.
HASTINGS ENCYCLO. OF REL. – Christian Baptism was administered using the words, "IN THE NAME OF JESUS." Vol. 2, Page 377.
The use of a Trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in early Church History. Vol. 2, Page 378.
Baptism was always in name of the Lord Jesus until time of Justin Martyr when Triune formula used. Vol. 2, Page 389.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLO. – Justin Martyr was one of the early Fathers of the Roman Catholic Church. Vol. 8
HASTINGS ENCYCLO. OF REL. – Name was an ancient synonym for "person." Payment was always made in name of some person referring to ownership. Therefore one being baptized in Jesus name became his personal property. "Ye are Christs." Vol. 2, Page 377 on Acts 2:38.
NEW INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLO. – The term "Trinity" was originated by Tertullian. A Roman Catholic Church Father. Vol. 22, Page 477.[/td]

​

 

[civic]

Bob Carabbio said:
No discussion possible. Jesus specifically mentions Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Mat 28:19, so in some form/sense, the trinity exists.

You both know... everyone knows I am only a 100% card carrying believer in the Trinity... but now even I have to interject an EXCEPT.

The more I read the bible and study and do research the dumber I think people were back in the day... and I am referring to Jesus' day when people heard him speak and specifically when "his people were charged with specific duties one being Matt 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

That came from Jesus' mouth. It came at such a time that they had to know who Jesus was, though vs 17 says
17When they saw Him, they worshiped [Him]; but some were doubtful. ( makes me wonder if among the things DNA carries forward is a belief system of acceptance or doubt... I'll say no more )

They did not do it... and I have read that several times that they did not start then to baptize as Jesus told them

The following has some interesting info, and it tells me that we cannot use that Matt 28:19 for Trinity proof because they did not use it back then when it would have been fairly certain of the Trinity... By their delaying it sounds as if it was someone's lay opinion as to the inclusion or not... and messed up a whole lot of info for us.

Just a question.... If they did not do what Jesus told them until the 2nd century, and continued in the old way.....
does that mean those people back then were not baptized because it was not proper?

But Apostolic Archives says....

History of Baptism in Jesus' Name

Britannica Encyclopedia, 11th Edition, Volume 3, page 365 - Baptism was changed from the name of Jesus to words Father, Son & Holy Ghost in 2nd Century. Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53 - The early church baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the second century.

​

[td]

[td]
BAPTISM
IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

[/td]​

[td]
HOW DID THE EARLY CHURCH INTERPRET CHRIST'S COMMAND IN MATTHEW 28:19? ACTS 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, and 19:5 are four Biblical references that answer this question. If the Biblical record is not enough, please examine the findings of the educated, scholars, and historians.

[/td]
[td]
Britannica Encyclopedia, 11th Edition, Volume 3, page 365 – Baptism was changed from the name of Jesus to words Father, Son & Holy Ghost in 2nd Century.
Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53 – The early church baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the second century.
Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion, Volume 2 – Christian baptism was administered using the words, "in the name of Jesus." page 377. Baptism was always in the name of Jesus until time of Justin Martyr, page 389.
Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 2, page 263 – Here the authors acknowledged that the baptismal formula was changed by their church.
Schaff – Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Volume 1, page 435 – The New Testament knows only the baptism in the name of Jesus.
Hastings Dictionary of Bible, page 88 – It must be acknowledged that the three fold name of Matthew 28:19 does not appear to have been used by the primitive church, but rather in the name of Jesus, Jesus Christ or Lord Jesus.

[/td]
[td]
IS IT AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY THAT THE NAME OF JESUS BE SPOKEN OR CALLED OVER A CANDIDATE FOR WATER BAPTISM WHEN HE IS BEING BAPTIZED? For the answer to this question, please read Acts 15:17 and James 2:7 [Greek Linear]. First Century Christians INVOKED OR CALLED the name of Jesus over believers in water baptism. If, as some say, "the name of Jesus means the authority of Jesus', then so much more should the NAME, rather than titles, be called over an individual in baptism. Read Matthew 28:18, Acts 4:12 and Colossians 2:9. Jude 3 is an exhortation to "CONTEND FOR THE FAITH ONCE DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS." See Galations 1:8-9 also. Should anyone dare to change what Christ and the Apostles established?

[/td]​

[td]
BAPTISM

[/td]
[td]
1. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON & HOLY GHOST
-or-
2. IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST

[/td]
[td]
Which of These Were Practiced
By the Apostles in the Early Church?

[/td]


[td]
BELOW ARE TWO COLUMNS FOR LISTING THE SCRIPTURES WHERE THE APOSTLES EITHER TAUGHT OR PRACTICED WATER BAPTISM.

[/td]​

[td]
​

IN JESUS NAME​

JEWS – "Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ. Acts 2:38.
SAMARITANS – They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 8:16.
GENTILES – He commanded them to be baptized in the name of Lord Jesus. Acts 10:48.
PETER TAUGHT – There is none other name given whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12.
PAUL TAUGHT – Whatever you do, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus. Col. 3:17.

[/td]​

[td]
FATHER, SON AND HOLY GHOST

[/td]​

[td]
Matthew 28:19 was a command by Jesus to baptize in a NAME. The Apostles did not repeat the words of the command, but they did obey it as seen in the scriptures above. Since Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are titles of the mainifestations of the Almighty Spirit and His body, the Apostles understood His SAVING NAME to be JESUS. Can any dare say that the Apostles disobeyed the Lord, or failed to baptize properly? THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY GHOST IS LORD JESUS CHRIST. The actions of the Apostles in the Book of Acts prove this to be true.

[/td]​

BAPTISM IN JESUS NAME​

According to The Bible​

[td]
JESUS TAUGHT – THAT REPENTANCE & REMISSION OF SINS SHOULD BE PREACHED IN HIS NAME BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM." Luke 24:47
PETER OBEYED – "REPENT & BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS." Acts 2:38-39
SAMARITANS – ". . .THEY WERE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS." Acts 8:16
GENTILES WERE COMMANDED – "HE COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF LORD JESUS." RV. Acts 10:48
PAUL RE-BAPTIZED – ". . . WHEN THEY HEARD THIS THEY WERE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS." Acts 19:3-5
NO OTHER NAME FOR SALVATION – ". . .THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED." Acts 4:10-12
EVERYTHING DONE IN JESUS NAME – "WHATSOEVER YOU DO IN WORD OR IN DEED, DO ALL IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS." Col. 3:17

[/td]
[td]
The above scriptures are not given to refute Matthew 28:19 where JESUS told Apostles to baptize in the name of the FATHER, & OF THE SON, & OF THE HOLY GHOST. They merely show how the command was interpreted and obeyed by them.
The Apostles knew what most religious leaders of today fail to recognize. First: That the Lord Jesus Christ is the family name. Eph. 3:15. Second: That the FULNESS of the GODHEAD (Deity or God) dwelleth bodily in CHRIST. Col 2:9
They knew the name of the SON was JESUS. Matthew 1:21. They knew that the SON came in the FATHER'S name. John 5:43. They also knew that the HOLY GHOST was the SPIRIT of CHRIST and would come in JESUS NAME. John 14:26.
The name JESUS means JEHOVA SALVATION. Faussets' Bible Encyclopedia. Page 359.

[/td]​

BAPTISM IN JESUS NAME​

According to History​

BRITANICA ENCYCLO. – The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son & Holy Ghost by Catholic Church in the second century. 11th Edition, Vol 3, page 365-366.
BRITANICA ENCYCLO. – Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ. Vol. 3, page 82.
CANNEY ENCYCLO. OF REL. – The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until development of Trinity Doctrine in 2nd century. Page 53.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLO. – Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church. Vol. 2, Page 263.
HASTINGS ENCYCLO. OF REL. – Christian Baptism was administered using the words, "IN THE NAME OF JESUS." Vol. 2, Page 377.
The use of a Trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in early Church History. Vol. 2, Page 378.
Baptism was always in name of the Lord Jesus until time of Justin Martyr when Triune formula used. Vol. 2, Page 389.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLO. – Justin Martyr was one of the early Fathers of the Roman Catholic Church. Vol. 8
HASTINGS ENCYCLO. OF REL. – Name was an ancient synonym for "person." Payment was always made in name of some person referring to ownership. Therefore one being baptized in Jesus name became his personal property. "Ye are Christs." Vol. 2, Page 377 on Acts 2:38.
NEW INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLO. – The term "Trinity" was originated by Tertullian. A Roman Catholic Church Father. Vol. 22, Page 477.[/td]

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Whether they did or did not do it is not the issue of debate. The debate is the Trinity which Jesus affirms in Matthew 28. And until Pentecost many doubted, but not after as they all were willing to die for Him. And the Apostles all taught the deity of Christ.

The Deity of Christ imho is the main issue, not the Trinity.

 

[amazing grace]

Whether they did or did not do it is not the issue of debate. The debate is the Trinity which Jesus affirms in Matthew 28. And until Pentecost many doubted, but not after as they all were willing to die for Him. And the Apostles all taught the deity of Christ.

The Deity of Christ imho is the main issue, not the Trinity.

Isn't it the Trinity that makes Jesus deity?

 

[FreeInChrist]

Whether they did or did not do it is not the issue of debate. The debate is the Trinity which Jesus affirms in Matthew 28. And until Pentecost many doubted, but not after as they all were willing to die for Him. And the Apostles all taught the deity of Christ.

The Deity of Christ imho is the main issue, not the Trinity.

Understood, but at the same time the title of this thread is Christendom's trinity where did it come from.

And the reason for my reply is they were told to baptize in the name of the three... but they did not do it.

Had they gone ahead as Jesus told them to... there would be less scoffing at the Trinity idea.

As to the Deity of Christ. That to me is clear in scriptures.

 

[civic]

Isn't it the Trinity that makes Jesus deity?

no one can be a binitarian.

 

[FreeInChrist]

no one can be a binitarian.

 

[civic]

Understood, but at the same time the title of this thread is Christendom's trinity where did it come from.

And the reason for my reply is they were told to baptize in the name of the three... but they did not do it.

Had they gone ahead as Jesus told them to... there would be less scoffing at the Trinity idea.

As to the Deity of Christ. That to me is clear in scriptures.

I would argue God has declared His Plurality since Genesis 1. You don't need to call God the Trinity to acknowledge God is Plural in Persons.

Tr- means 3
Unity- means equal/One/ unified

 

[civic]

View attachment 2712

there is a reason I say this lol.

Scripture demands one must believe in the Deity of Christ as necessary or else a person will die in their sins. John 8:24

 

[amazing grace]

no one can be a binitarian.

Oh, maybe that's what Paul identified as since the Holy Spirit never greeted the saints at the different churches!!!

To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.......etc., etc., etc. (JK)

 

[FreeInChrist]

there is a reason I say this lol.

Scripture demands one must believe in the Deity of Christ as necessary or else a person will die in their sins. John 8:24

100% Agreed

 

[civic]

Oh, maybe that's what Paul identified as since the Holy Spirit never greeted the saints at the different churches!!!

To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.......etc., etc., etc. (JK)

not sure whats making you bust up so much lol.

maybee sum more of dat splainin

 

[Titus]

BRITANICA ENCYCLO. – The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son & Holy Ghost by Catholic Church in the second century

The Didache (AD 90-110)
"Baptize...in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" Didache 7:1

Every Greek manuscript supports the Godhead in Matthew 28:19