FreeInChrist
Active Member
I love the Didache.... but quit using it for references because of the negative comments. Thanks for posting
Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?
- Thread starter Alter2Ego
- Start date
It is more biblical than denying the deity of Christ. The other option is to think that Jews promoted Jesus as a second god -- which indeed is unlikely and unbiblical. But unitarians have to promote stupid memes because they cannot contest the truth of scripture sufficiently.
Titus
Active Member
2Corinthians 4:3-4,
- but if our gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost
in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them
John 8:24,
- I said therefore unto you that ye shall die in your sins for if ye believe not that I am He ye shall die in your sins
- but if our gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost
in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them
John 8:24,
- I said therefore unto you that ye shall die in your sins for if ye believe not that I am He ye shall die in your sins
Peterlag
Active Member
Jesus prayed to God “not my will, but yours, be done”...
because Jesus and God have separate wills (Luke 22:42; John 5:30). They would have one will if Jesus and the Father are the same “one God.” Trinitarian doctrine claims that Luke is referring to the human will of Jesus, and not his divine will, but that is problematic because the Bible never says anything like that or even hints that Jesus had two wills in conflict with each other inside him allowing one to be human and the other to be divine.
The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time
because Jesus and God have separate wills (Luke 22:42; John 5:30). They would have one will if Jesus and the Father are the same “one God.” Trinitarian doctrine claims that Luke is referring to the human will of Jesus, and not his divine will, but that is problematic because the Bible never says anything like that or even hints that Jesus had two wills in conflict with each other inside him allowing one to be human and the other to be divine.
The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Simply amazing. You are a master of word salads......
Titus
Active Member
Human reasoning,
1Corinthians 2:4-5,
- and my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of mans wisdom but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men but in the power of God
Peterlag
Active Member
Is there some other kind of reasoning we are to use to understand the Bible other than human reasoning?
Titus
Active Member
The Bible instructs us to reason with the Lord not apart from Him,
- Come now let us reason together saith the Lord
You are reasoning apart from the Lord.
Relying on your own logic aka human reasoning.
That is not how you reason with the scriptures.
Proof:
Nowhere does Gods word teach that God cannot be God if He has two wills.
You used your own reasoning apart from any Scripture that teaches this.
Fact: If Gods word says word for word, "I am the one and only God with three wills"
Then you either except Gods wisdom and understanding over your own. Or you use your own reasoning to conclude that is not logical.
If you want to prove me wrong.
Then give book chapter and verse that teaches God cannot be God if He has two wills?
Of course it does not have to be word for word.
By using Gods truth is how we use reasoning.
You came to your conclusion about God by your own judgment.
Not by using what God revealed.
Romans 12:2,
- be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind
The spiritual mans mind is renewed by Gods truth not fallen human wisdom.
I'll be waiting for you to disprove my accusation that you come to your theory that God cannot have two wills with scripture.
You will not be able because you are relying on self rather than Scripture.
Be like the Berean,
Acts 17:11,
- they recieved the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so
Everyone must submit human logic to Gods revelation.
Proverbs 3:5,
- trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not unto thine own understanding
Peterlag, you and your son have different will, but you both are one in nature as human.
Same as the the Father and Jesus, they each have will but one in the nature of God. (Rom 1:20, Acts 17:29, Col 2:9)
God had given you freewill Peterlag, as a Christian you have to follow Christ.
But I believe you chose to disobey Christ's final instruction before ascension, to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Can we still professed as a follower of Christ through disobedience?
Yes, the same with your son Peterlag, he will be your heir even though he is the same with your nature as human.
Also with God, Jesus is God's heir even though He have the same divine nature with the Father.
Jesus as at the bosom of the Father, and at post-ascension as an heir, Jesus sat at the right hand of the of the Majesty on high.
Heb 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
Dan 7:13 "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him.
Dan 7:14 "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.
Peterlag
Active Member
Do you have a teaching of any of this from the Bible? A teaching... a whole paragraph or chapter the describes what you have written above? A teaching on the doctrine of the trinity?
Peterlag
Active Member
Interesting that when you quote the Scriptures it's God's Word. When I quote the Scriptures it's my own judgement or my opinion.
Peterlag
Active Member
The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.
For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.
Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the same time. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.
For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.
Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the same time. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.
Titus
Active Member
As I said you cannot give any Scripture that says God cannot be God if He has two wills.
still waiting for book, chapter and verse.
Where did you learn this from Scripture?
You didn't, just more of your own thinking.
You don't use the Bible. You rely on your self.
When the Bible teaches truth.
It doesn't matter if my limited mind can understand it or not.
It is what it is.
Proverbs 3:5-6,
- trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not unto thine own understanding In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy paths
1Timothy 3:16,
- God was manifest in the flesh
The Bible teaches God in the flesh.
Now where does the Bible teach God cannot be God and flesh?
Where does the Bible teach God cannot be God if He has two wills?
Answer: it doesn't.
You are contradicting the word.
Peterlag
Active Member
In this life we speak and write about what is. Not what is not. I say that I'm a man or a human and if I gave blood the package would list that it's human blood of a man's blood. The package would not list what it is not. It would not say this blood is not from a horse, or a cat, or a tree, or a fish etc.
It seems intelligent and informed input on the subject of debating the Trinity comes from the unitarian camp. It seems low intelligence, ignorance, and an incapacity for critical thought are prerequisites for membership in trinitarian circles.
Titus
Active Member
Proverbs 11:2,
- with the lowly is wisdom
You will never see truth until you stop relying on your self.
You must rely on what the word plainly says,
- God was manifest in the flesh
Proverbs 12:15,
- the way of the fool is right in his own eyes
Titus
Active Member
You have given zero scripture that teaches God cannot be God if He has two wills.
It's your doctrine. You must defend it with book, chapter and verse.
Since you cannot, it proves your reasoning is not from the word.
Peterlag
Active Member
It only proves you do not understand that we in this life speak about what is. Not what is not.
Peterlag
Active Member
Titus
Active Member
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