civic
Well-known member
So God revealed Himself to you something revealed to no one else ?
Another former Calvinist Sam Shamoun
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Um He determines it according to your theology
Cyrus
Active member
Here's the thread that someone created. I think it was that cut and paste guy
Cyrus
Active member
My edumacated guess would be that I had something to do with the fall. Bible says something about sin gets worse and worse. That's why everyone was destroyed in the flood except Noah and his family. God was sorry he even created us.
The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
Genesis 6:6-22
But I doubt very seriously That God determines evil. Evil is the absence of good. Romans 12:21 says "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good"
7xLightray
Member
No, He reveled the same as He did to Peter, James, John, and Paul. And when I searched the scripture I do not find any contradiction. It made reading the Bible like reading any other book, straightforward - Prov. 8:8-9
civic
Well-known member
So you have the same personal revelation of Jesus as the Apostles?
Unfortunately Calvinism holds to that
7xLightray
Member
Yes! Eph 1:17
Johann
Well-known member
Glad to hear we have an enlightened new member here-knowing the tushiyyah and chizzayon an ish da'as
Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
7xLightray
Member
Not sure, does this mean you understand my point?
Johann
Well-known member
7xLightray
Member
Now I do!
If they can receive a revelation, and wisdom, from God, and not only from the Apostles, then anyone can. But it must line up with what the Apostles taught.
Johann
Well-known member
OH-OK-do we possess full and precise epignosis?
7xLightray
Member
Of what? Of all things, or some things, or a certain thing? Is this a sincere question?
Johann
Well-known member
A very sincere question--
Job 11:7-9 (ESV):
"Can you find out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limit of the Almighty? It is higher than heaven—what can you do? Deeper than Sheol—what can you know? Its measure is longer than the earth and broader than the sea."
Isaiah 55:8-9 (ESV):
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."
Romans 11:33-34 (ESV):
"Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! 'For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?'"
1 Corinthians 2:11 (ESV):
"For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."
Psalm 145:3 (ESV):
"Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable."
Psalm 147:5 (ESV):
"Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure."
Ecclesiastes 3:11 (ESV):
"He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end."
Isaiah 40:28 (ESV):
"Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable."
Deuteronomy 29:29 (ESV):
"The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law."
1 Timothy 6:15-16 (ESV):
"He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen."
Definition of Epignosis
The Greek word ἐπίγνωσις (epignōsis) is often translated as "knowledge" or "full knowledge" in the New Testament. This term is derived from two parts: ἐπί (epi), meaning "upon" or "towards," and γνῶσις (gnōsis), meaning "knowledge." Together, epignosis implies a deeper, more precise, and more intimate knowledge than gnōsis alone. It signifies not just an intellectual understanding but a thorough, experiential, and relational knowledge.
Usage in the New Testament:
Romans 10:2 (ESV):
"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge (epignōsis)."
Ephesians 1:17 (ESV):
"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge (epignōsis) of him."
Colossians 1:9-10 (ESV):
"And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge (epignōsis) of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge (epignōsis) of God."
This deeper knowledge often implies a transformative relationship with God, going beyond mere factual understanding to a profound, personal acquaintance with Him.
Johann
Welcome to the Forum brother.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You assumed your argument was true and accepted by all.
7xLightray
Member
Are you saying, that the Apostles knew all these things that you quoted? Sure they may know some things, as what is given to men. I received the understanding of a bunch of things, like who God is, Who Jesus is, God's love, Revelation, Times of the Gentiles, sin and the flesh, for example off the top of my head.
Thanks!
7xLightray
Member
Not yet, I'm still waiting for civic to reply..
civic: "No I do not plea to mystery with the Trinity, you have the wrong trinitarian.
."Me: "I've never meet a trinitarian that does not eventually ending up there, because it is against logic! How are three persons not three Gods then?"
civic
Well-known member
more deflection since the True God below is in opposition to your god of calvinism/fatalism.
You have questions I have biblical answers to your unbelief and skepticism.
Eternal / Exhaustive Divine Decree
The story of Sodom and Gomorrah seems to present problems for Calvinism 's (EDD ).
How do the Calvinists answer?
1. God determined that Sodom would become so wicked.
2. God determined that their wickedness would include sexual perversion.
3. God determined that Lot would offer his daughters to be abused..
4. Even though God brought Lot's wife out of the city, God determined that she would be lost, in spite of having warned her not to look back.
5. Why would God warn her if she was determined before the foundation of the world to be lost?
6. God determined that Lot's daughters would commit incest with their father.
7. And is further compounded by what Jesus Himself said :That there was actually a way that the Sodomites could’ve been saved (Matthew 11:23).
how do people believe these things about our Holy God ?
Remember God delivers from evil and does not cause evil
Matthew 6:9-13
“Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 ‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 ‘Give us this day [e]our daily bread.
12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
John 17:15
I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.
2 Timothy 4:18
The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
2 Thessalonians 3:2-3
And that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.
Jeremiah 7:31
They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Hinnom so they could burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I never commanded, nor did it even enter My mind.
James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone.
Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.
1 Chronicles 4:10
And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.
Jeremiah 32:35
They have built the high places of Baal in the Valley of Hinnom to make their sons and daughters pass through the fire to Molech--something I never commanded them, nor had it ever entered My mind, that they should commit such an abomination and cause Judah to sin
Psalm 121:7,8
The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul…
Jeremiah 15:21
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.
1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
hope this helps !!!
Rockson
Well-known member
Amen to all that.
