Another former Calvinist Sam Shamoun

TomL said:
Um He determines it according to your theology
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And as you can see Tom in this he doesn't want to talk about his theology. He diverts away from it for good reason. It seems they're embarrassed to say what they believe. Turn the tables quick!
 
Rockson said:
And as you can see Tom in this he doesn't want to talk about his theology. He diverts away from it for good reason. It seems they're embarrassed to say what they believe. Turn the tables quick!
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Determination simply creates too many problems for a rational theology
 
civic said:
more deflection since the True God below is in opposition to your god of calvinism/fatalism.

You have questions I have biblical answers to your unbelief and skepticism.

Eternal / Exhaustive Divine Decree

The story of Sodom and Gomorrah seems to present problems for Calvinism 's (EDD ).

How do the Calvinists answer?

1. God determined that Sodom would become so wicked.

2. God determined that their wickedness would include sexual perversion.

3. God determined that Lot would offer his daughters to be abused..

4. Even though God brought Lot's wife out of the city, God determined that she would be lost, in spite of having warned her not to look back.

5. Why would God warn her if she was determined before the foundation of the world to be lost?

6. God determined that Lot's daughters would commit incest with their father.

7. And is further compounded by what Jesus Himself said :That there was actually a way that the Sodomites could’ve been saved (Matthew 11:23).

how do people believe these things about our Holy God ?

Remember God delivers from evil and does not cause evil

Matthew 6:9-13
“Pray, then, in this way:

‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 ‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 ‘Give us this day [e]our daily bread.
12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

John 17:15
I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.

2 Timothy 4:18
The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

2 Thessalonians 3:2-3
And that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

Jeremiah 7:31
They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Hinnom so they could burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I never commanded, nor did it even enter My mind.

James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone.

Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

1 Chronicles 4:10
And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.

Jeremiah 32:35
They have built the high places of Baal in the Valley of Hinnom to make their sons and daughters pass through the fire to Molech--something I never commanded them, nor had it ever entered My mind, that they should commit such an abomination and cause Judah to sin

Psalm 121:7,8
The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul…

Jeremiah 15:21
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

hope this helps !!!
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More dodging. Determinism, Fatalism are mere distractions because you refuse to answer the question.

Why does your god sit back and allow your innocent children to be raped and murdered?
 
Rockson said:
What do you mean we're not talking about sin! How dare you suggest that the most insidious type of sins that were brought up is somehow not sin. I told you why God has allowed such evil to exist and my answer is a million times better then what a Calvinist would have to say. You go to the unbelievable place of saying God wanted it and ordained it that is the rape of children or let's just say other impure things that can happen to them. Sorry but people of the word of God KNOW that in no way is true.


I told you, I told you, I told you. I said he's allowed evil for a period of time to demonstrate the type of fruit that independence from him produces. I said MORE as well in post #61 that readers can see. Your position is and I think it's clear you're ashamed of it or you wouldn't be seeking to spin this around trying to put me on the defensive. YOUR POSITION is that God ordains it and wants it. So say YES or NO. Do you believe that or not. If you're going to claim to be a Calvinist then you've got to own wherever that might take you. It seems you want to take readers mind off just what you truly are believing.
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That's not a answer. Your making it up. Children are still raped and murdered. And your god sits back and allows it to occur. Why?
 
Presby02 said:
Everything in creation serves a divine purpose. If some evil serves no purpose, such as the rape and murder of children, then why allow it? What would be the point?
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So when God restrains evil he is restraining his own purpose and when he redeems evil it is his own purpose he is redeeming?
 
TomL said:
So when God restrains evil he is restraining his own purpose and when he redeems evil it is his own purpose he is redeeming?
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Nope. How come you ignore my questions but I must answer yours?

His restraint involves we humans not being as evil as we could be.

If there were no evil then how would God be glorified in redemption? If there were no evil how would anyone know the goodness of God?
 

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