When did you "pass from death to life" Catholicism vs Protestants

[praise_yeshua]

I don't think many Protestants actually know when they "passed from death to life". Maybe it happened when they were younger and those memories have faded away. I'm not setting a requirement that you must "remember" what happened.

However, for many people, the "event" takes place well within their memory. (Though age and disease may make us forget). At every level, even redemption is bound within this weak body we possess.

I'd like ask those here that "remember the event".... when it happened and how it happened.

I'm going use an example that is well known within theology.

Martin Luther..... ( No, I'm not a Lutheran. I'm just a Christian).

Not matter if you accept his theology or not, I believe Luther experienced God in "passing from death to life". It was real to him. An event that changed him forever. So you have a baptised and practicing Catholic experiencing God in newness of life. (Luther was ordained in the priest order of the Roman Catholic church in 1507.)

So you have a former Catholic that believes in baptismal regeneration claiming that he was "born again" much later.

Now fast forward to Sam Shamoun. ( I have an open invitation to discuss this with Sam. Hopefully he might see this ).

I'd like to ask Sam when he "passed from death to life". I believe it is important know when this happened (if you can remember). I believe the event is profound and a monumental experience. Sam talks of his journey into Roman Catholicism (which he doesn't reject early church Orthodoxy among several "branches" of Orthodoxy). However, he now believes in baptismal regeneration. I'd like for him to deal with this. I'd like to understand when he "passed from death unto life". I'd like to know if he thinks he was wrong about the event that he once recognized happened to him.

To be clear, I'm not Protestant and I'm not Roman Catholic. I believe the choice is a silly one to make. Both are wrong to one degree or another. Just because I believe Luther didn't lie about his experience doesn't make me one of his disciples.

Theses are issues that most "Christians" avoid. They shouldn't avoid this. This subject will help mankind. They "hear" the debates. They see conflict, there is no reason to avoid the conflict. It is necessary that others might change.

So join the conversation. When did you "pass from death to life"? Please explain.

I remember exactly when it happened. I was 16/17 years in a local church to my area. It profoundly changed my life. It was such a "earth shattering event" that I have never been the same "though I have certainly acted the same at times". It was supernatural. Emotional. Profoundly troubling and difficult with one the greatest feelings of newness of life that I've ever known.

Joh 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

 

[TomL]

I don't think many Protestants actually know when they "passed from death to life". Maybe it happened when they were younger and those memories have faded away. I'm not setting a requirement that you must "remember" what happened.

However, for many people, the "event" takes place well within their memory. (Though age and disease may make us forget). At every level, even redemption is bound within this weak body we possess.

I'd like ask those here that "remember the event".... when it happened and how it happened.

I'm going use an example that is well known within theology.

Martin Luther..... ( No, I'm not a Lutheran. I'm just a Christian).

Not matter if you accept his theology or not, I believe Luther experienced God in "passing from death to life". It was real to him. An event that changed him forever. So you have a baptised and practicing Catholic experiencing God in newness of life. (Luther was ordained in the priest order of the Roman Catholic church in 1507.)

So you have a former Catholic that believes in baptismal regeneration claiming that he was "born again" much later.

Now fast forward to Sam Shamoun. ( I have an open invitation to discuss this with Sam. Hopefully he might see this ).

I'd like to ask Sam when he "passed from death to life". I believe it is important know when this happened (if you can remember). I believe the event is profound and a monumental experience. Sam talks of his journey into Roman Catholicism (which he doesn't reject early church Orthodoxy among several "branches" of Orthodoxy). However, he now believes in baptismal regeneration. I'd like for him to deal with this. I'd like to understand when he "passed from death unto life". I'd like to know if he thinks he was wrong about the event that he once recognized happened to him.

To be clear, I'm not Protestant and I'm not Roman Catholic. I believe the choice is a silly one to make. Both are wrong to one degree or another. Just because I believe Luther didn't lie about his experience doesn't make me one of his disciples.

Theses are issues that most "Christians" avoid. They shouldn't avoid this. This subject will help mankind. They "hear" the debates. They see conflict, there is no reason to avoid the conflict. It is necessary that others might change.

So join the conversation. When did you "pass from death to life"? Please explain.

I remember exactly when it happened. I was 16/17 years in a local church to my area. It profoundly changed my life. It was such a "earth shattering event" that I have never been the same "though I have certainly acted the same at times". It was supernatural. Emotional. Profoundly troubling and difficult with one the greatest feelings of newness of life that I've ever known.

Joh 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

[praise_yeshua]

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Do you remember when that specially happened for you?

 

[synergy]

I don't think many Protestants actually know when they "passed from death to life". Maybe it happened when they were younger and those memories have faded away. I'm not setting a requirement that you must "remember" what happened.

However, for many people, the "event" takes place well within their memory. (Though age and disease may make us forget). At every level, even redemption is bound within this weak body we possess.

I'd like ask those here that "remember the event".... when it happened and how it happened.

I'm going use an example that is well known within theology.

Martin Luther..... ( No, I'm not a Lutheran. I'm just a Christian).

Not matter if you accept his theology or not, I believe Luther experienced God in "passing from death to life". It was real to him. An event that changed him forever. So you have a baptised and practicing Catholic experiencing God in newness of life. (Luther was ordained in the priest order of the Roman Catholic church in 1507.)

So you have a former Catholic that believes in baptismal regeneration claiming that he was "born again" much later.

Now fast forward to Sam Shamoun. ( I have an open invitation to discuss this with Sam. Hopefully he might see this ).

I'd like to ask Sam when he "passed from death to life". I believe it is important know when this happened (if you can remember). I believe the event is profound and a monumental experience. Sam talks of his journey into Roman Catholicism (which he doesn't reject early church Orthodoxy among several "branches" of Orthodoxy). However, he now believes in baptismal regeneration. I'd like for him to deal with this. I'd like to understand when he "passed from death unto life". I'd like to know if he thinks he was wrong about the event that he once recognized happened to him.

To be clear, I'm not Protestant and I'm not Roman Catholic. I believe the choice is a silly one to make. Both are wrong to one degree or another. Just because I believe Luther didn't lie about his experience doesn't make me one of his disciples.

Theses are issues that most "Christians" avoid. They shouldn't avoid this. This subject will help mankind. They "hear" the debates. They see conflict, there is no reason to avoid the conflict. It is necessary that others might change.

So join the conversation. When did you "pass from death to life"? Please explain.

I remember exactly when it happened. I was 16/17 years in a local church to my area. It profoundly changed my life. It was such a "earth shattering event" that I have never been the same "though I have certainly acted the same at times". It was supernatural. Emotional. Profoundly troubling and difficult with one the greatest feelings of newness of life that I've ever known.

Joh 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

Everytime I recommit myself to Christ, I receive newness of life. Throughout my life, I've had several long dry spiritual spells and several recommitments. Some I can vividly remember and some I can barely remember at all. Some I felt profoundly differently thereafter and some I didn't.

As far as baptism is concerned, I strongly believe that there is one and only one baptism required. But as far as commitments and recommitments are concerned, there can be many but hopefully not too many because that would be a sign of inconsistency. Christ, out Lord, is very forgiving.

 

[TomL]

Do you remember when that specially happened for you?

Yes

 

[praise_yeshua]

Everytime I recommit myself to Christ, I receive newness of life. Throughout my life, I've had several long dry spiritual spells and several recommitments. Some I can vividly remember and some I can barely remember at all. Some I felt profoundly differently thereafter and some I didn't.

As far as baptism is concerned, I strongly believe that there is one and only one baptism required. But as far as commitments and recommitments are concerned, there can be many but hopefully not too many because that would be a sign of inconsistency. Christ, out Lord, is very forgiving.

I can understand this. I've experienced this myself.

I do believe there is an initial "transformation" that takes place in the new birth. I believe Martin Luther experienced this himself. Not that I believe Luther was right about everything. He wasn't. Which is one of the reasons I don't choose "any side" from various sects and denominations. I also believe that children can experience the same "transformation". They just might not remember. Even elderly people can get to the point they don't remember as well.

I believe the "initial event" is important. It represents a "turning point" in our human lives.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Passing from death to life will occur when Jesus returns. Until then, we all still have an appointment with death.

 

[TomL]

Passing from death to life will occur when Jesus returns. Until then, we all still have an appointment with death.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

[jeremiah1five]

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Yes, that's what it says, but here's the thing to acknowledge.
The penalty for sin is death. Jesus died a substitutionary death for His people and paid for their sin with His life. A perfect sacrifice under the Law of Moses.
So, if sin is death and Jesus paid the penalty of sin and died for each person in the book of life, then why do we still die? It is appointed unto men once to die. Why do we still die if Jesus paid the penalty for sin which is death? We still die in this life.
So, passing from death to life occurs when Jesus Christ returns and the graves of His people are emptied but this happens after Jesus returns. Until that day happens, we to whom the words that we "pass from death to life" cannot apply to our lives during this present dispensation while we await the Second Coming.

How do you reconcile this truth?

Truth #1. Death is the penalty for sin.
Truth #2. Jesus paid the penalty for sin which is death.
Truth #3. We still die.

But didn't Jesus pay the penalty for sin by dying in our place? Then why do we still die at the end of our lives? We don't "pass from death unto life," we "pass from life unto death" until the Trumpet sound and we are resurrected and changes, and those alive when Jesus appears are already alive, so how can that passage apply to people alive when Jesus returns and THEN we are changed from corruption to incorruption, etc.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24.

John 5:24 would have to apply to those elect people who have died in this life, to those that are in their grave's dead.

Jesus continues:

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. John 5:25.

How do you interpret "and now is"? Does it apply to when Jesus died and there was a great earthquake and the graves of the dead were opened and...

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Matt. 27:51–53.

So, here's the scene: Early on the first day Jesus resurrects and so did many of the Jewish saints that were what? Jesus followers?
May be.
But I think this would apply to many of the Old Testament saints from who to when Jesus resurrected? It can't mean anyone who died in the desert or died outside the Garden of Eden after Adam was kicked out.
Where was the earthquake? In Jerusalem? Yes. And the seismic event would have to be limited to Jerusalem and the surrounding area if we take "Holy City" as Jerusalem, which it is, and this means the graves of those in and around Jerusalem, it was their graves that opened and they went into the Holy City which is Jerusalem, right?

Maybe the "Holy City" refers to the New Jerusalem? How big was the earthquake? I've been in a 6.0 on the Richter Scale earthquake when outside on the road and I saw the ripples on the surface of the road traveling (I later learned) from the direction outward where the quake was centered like ripples on a pond when a stone is tossed in. This quake was felt approximately 60 miles from the epicenter. So, a quake of similar strength - if the earthquake in Matthew 27:51 is of similar strength - means people as far out from Jerusalem of 60 miles had their graves opened by this earthquake and they began traveling towards the "Holy City" (Jerusalem), and were seen "by many" after walking at least 60 miles. This would mean it may have taken these people about 2-3 days to travel that distance to the "Holy City."

And the statement by Jesus "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" only applies to them as they were the ones who were dead and they by covenant looked forward to the coming of that "Prophet like unto Moses". These were pre-cross, pre-Jesus believers in that prophetic Scripture and people who died believing God would send such a "Prophet" hopefully during their lifetime, but He never came, and they died believing.

Is this a fair assessment? John 5:24 can only apply before Jesus' sacrifice to people who were already dead, right?

How do you interpret John 5:24 and how do you interpret "and now is"?

How readest thou?

 

[Studyman]

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 5:24 (CLV) "Verily, verily, I am saying to you that he who is hearing My word and believing Him Who sends Me, has life eonian and is not coming into judging, but has proceeded out of death into life."

Matt. 24: 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he "that shall endure unto the end", the same "shall be saved".

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and "doeth them", I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them "not", shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

It is a dangerous thing for a person to be convinced he or she is already immortal, like Eve was. The Bible doesn't teach this, but this world's religious system is founded on it. It is clear to see Jesus didn't promote this philosophy. Paul didn't promote such a philosophy either.

Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

7 "To them" who by patient continuance "in well doing" seek for "glory and honour and immortality", eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The entire Bible warns against such complacency.

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. (Thou shall surely not die, "you're saved")

Jesus went out of His way to specifically address this very thing.

Matt. 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (My End, yes. The end of my world is my death, yes?)

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Salvation, according to Scriptures, is a journey, an "Exodus" from sin and deception seeking the Prize of the High Calling of God which was in Christ Jesus. "Being perfect as defined by God".

This Journey starts with Passover, which is today, and followed by the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which symbolizes our new life coupled with the Blood (Life) of Jesus in our mind and our body. (2 door posts and lintel)

We will overcome, "IF" we "DO" as our Lord and advocate between God and us instruct. (Showing His Life in us)

But if we listen to the "Other voice" in the garden, a voice who "Professes to know God" (Hath God not said?) And voice who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, and are persuaded to follow a popular path in which men create their own judgments, while rejecting Gods, their own high days, while rejecting the Feasts of the Lord, their own definition of Holy, mocking and demeaning God by promoting the lie that His instructions are not possible to live by, then we will have a reward in this world, and friends in the Synagogues every week, but will not be known by the Lord's Christ. Yes, they are a seductive voice, and "Many" follow them. Nevertheless, Jesus did say to "Take heed" men are not deceived by them.

There is a "PATH", created by God and known as "The Way of the Lord", that leads to Life. And the Jesus of the Bible walked in this path, and instructs that we are to Strive to enter this same Path. Eve was convinced to follow another path after the imagination and reasoning of her own mind. I remember when I came to understand this undeniable Biblical truth, and it changed my life for the better, although I am in a battle every day as I deny myself and "yield myself unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and my members as instruments of righteousness unto God".

Truly a Prize worth Pressing Towards in our short lives.

 

[TomL]

John 5:24 (CLV) "Verily, verily, I am saying to you that he who is hearing My word and believing Him Who sends Me, has life eonian and is not coming into judging, but has proceeded out of death into life."

Matt. 24: 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he "that shall endure unto the end", the same "shall be saved".

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and "doeth them", I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them "not", shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

It is a dangerous thing for a person to be convinced he or she is already immortal, like Eve was. The Bible doesn't teach this, but this world's religious system is founded on it. It is clear to see Jesus didn't promote this philosophy. Paul didn't promote such a philosophy either.

Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

7 "To them" who by patient continuance "in well doing" seek for "glory and honour and immortality", eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The entire Bible warns against such complacency.

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. (Thou shall surely not die, "you're saved")

Jesus went out of His way to specifically address this very thing.

Matt. 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (My End, yes. The end of my world is my death, yes?)

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Salvation, according to Scriptures, is a journey, an "Exodus" from sin and deception seeking the Prize of the High Calling of God which was in Christ Jesus. "Being perfect as defined by God".

This Journey starts with Passover, which is today, and followed by the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which symbolizes our new life coupled with the Blood (Life) of Jesus in our mind and our body. (2 door posts and lintel)

We will overcome, "IF" we "DO" as our Lord and advocate between God and us instruct. (Showing His Life in us)

But if we listen to the "Other voice" in the garden, a voice who "Professes to know God" (Hath God not said?) And voice who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, and are persuaded to follow a popular path in which men create their own judgments, while rejecting Gods, their own high days, while rejecting the Feasts of the Lord, their own definition of Holy, mocking and demeaning God by promoting the lie that His instructions are not possible to live by, then we will have a reward in this world, and friends in the Synagogues every week, but will not be known by the Lord's Christ. Yes, they are a seductive voice, and "Many" follow them. Nevertheless, Jesus did say to "Take heed" men are not deceived by them.

There is a "PATH", created by God and known as "The Way of the Lord", that leads to Life. And the Jesus of the Bible walked in this path, and instructs that we are to Strive to enter this same Path. Eve was convinced to follow another path after the imagination and reasoning of her own mind. I remember when I came to understand this undeniable Biblical truth, and it changed my life for the better, although I am in a battle every day as I deny myself and "yield myself unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and my members as instruments of righteousness unto God".

Truly a Prize worth Pressing Towards in our short lives.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

It's pretty clear

 

[TomL]

Yes, that's what it says, but here's the thing to acknowledge.
The penalty for sin is death. Jesus died a substitutionary death for His people and paid for their sin with His life. A perfect sacrifice under the Law of Moses.
So, if sin is death and Jesus paid the penalty of sin and died for each person in the book of life, then why do we still die? It is appointed unto men once to die. Why do we still die if Jesus paid the penalty for sin which is death? We still die in this life.
So, passing from death to life occurs when Jesus Christ returns and the graves of His people are emptied but this happens after Jesus returns. Until that day happens, we to whom the words that we "pass from death to life" cannot apply to our lives during this present dispensation while we await the Second Coming.

How do you reconcile this truth?

Truth #1. Death is the penalty for sin.
Truth #2. Jesus paid the penalty for sin which is death.
Truth #3. We still die.

But didn't Jesus pay the penalty for sin by dying in our place? Then why do we still die at the end of our lives? We don't "pass from death unto life," we "pass from life unto death" until the Trumpet sound and we are resurrected and changes, and those alive when Jesus appears are already alive, so how can that passage apply to people alive when Jesus returns and THEN we are changed from corruption to incorruption, etc.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24.

John 5:24 would have to apply to those elect people who have died in this life, to those that are in their grave's dead.

Jesus continues:

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. John 5:25.

How do you interpret "and now is"? Does it apply to when Jesus died and there was a great earthquake and the graves of the dead were opened and...

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Matt. 27:51–53.

So, here's the scene: Early on the first day Jesus resurrects and so did many of the Jewish saints that were what? Jesus followers?
May be.
But I think this would apply to many of the Old Testament saints from who to when Jesus resurrected? It can't mean anyone who died in the desert or died outside the Garden of Eden after Adam was kicked out.
Where was the earthquake? In Jerusalem? Yes. And the seismic event would have to be limited to Jerusalem and the surrounding area if we take "Holy City" as Jerusalem, which it is, and this means the graves of those in and around Jerusalem, it was their graves that opened and they went into the Holy City which is Jerusalem, right?

Maybe the "Holy City" refers to the New Jerusalem? How big was the earthquake? I've been in a 6.0 on the Richter Scale earthquake when outside on the road and I saw the ripples on the surface of the road traveling (I later learned) from the direction outward where the quake was centered like ripples on a pond when a stone is tossed in. This quake was felt approximately 60 miles from the epicenter. So, a quake of similar strength - if the earthquake in Matthew 27:51 is of similar strength - means people as far out from Jerusalem of 60 miles had their graves opened by this earthquake and they began traveling towards the "Holy City" (Jerusalem), and were seen "by many" after walking at least 60 miles. This would mean it may have taken these people about 2-3 days to travel that distance to the "Holy City."

And the statement by Jesus "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" only applies to them as they were the ones who were dead and they by covenant looked forward to the coming of that "Prophet like unto Moses". These were pre-cross, pre-Jesus believers in that prophetic Scripture and people who died believing God would send such a "Prophet" hopefully during their lifetime, but He never came, and they died believing.

Is this a fair assessment? John 5:24 can only apply before Jesus' sacrifice to people who were already dead, right?

How do you interpret John 5:24 and how do you interpret "and now is"?

How readest thou?

John 5:25 (LEB) — 25 “Truly, truly I say to you, that an hour is coming—and now is here—when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and the ones who hear will live.

Is speaking of the gospel and upon belief men will receive spiritual life

Telling us that which we read in verse 24

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

[Studyman]

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and "who believes the one who sent me" has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

It's pretty clear

I guess if a man wants to justify a religion, or religious sect, he could take this one verse out of the Bible, separate it from all of the other Words of the Lord's Christ, and use it for self-justification. This is a popular tactic practiced by "Many" of the promoters of this world's religious sects, "who come in Christ's Name". In that case any man could justify any religion, or any tradition or behavior, by simply calling Jesus Lord, Lord", and saying, "Hath Jesus not said?". Just like in the beginning.

But "It's pretty clear" that Jesus addresses this very thing in His Words that I posted but you didn't acknowledge.

"It's pretty clear" according to Scriptures, that Jesus meant hearing "ALL" of His Sayings, not just this one sentence. And what does it mean "AND" "who believes the "one who sent me""? Doesn't the Jesus "of the Bible" also address this with His Other Words?

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know "thee" the only true God, "and" Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Are you saying that I can "hear" and then ignore or reject "Some" of the Christ's Words, and still pass from death unto life?