An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Looks like God determined he would shoot himself in the foot
Rockson
Well-known member
So what an extremely strange thing Calvinism is. So here you have God saying for them to do the above but a Calvinist will say the truth of the matter is God didn't really want them to. I can't imagine any brand of teaching one should know to stay away from other then this.
Considering the post to which you replied, you blindly deceive about Christ's doctrine being that man's salvation is entirely conditional upon God's choosing since Christ says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). (John 15:16-19); therefore, YOU DEPLORABLY DELIBERATELY DISREGARD AND MISREPRESENT IN A VERY PUBLIC FORUM with your "your belief in unconditional election to salvation".
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The Christ of us Christians lovingly declares "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), so, in effect, Christ says "You believing in Him whom He has sent" "is the work of God" (John 6:29); therefore, man does not work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus, but God does work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus (John 6:28-29).
The people asked Jesus "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God" (John 6:28), essentially "How does the works of man work the works of God".
Lord Jesus eliminates "the works of man" (John 6:28) entirely from the equation with His Powerful response "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), and the Apostle Paul is in accord with Jesus saying that God controls faith/belief unto salvation inside of man with absolutely no input by man:
by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10).
Your heart nullifies this Word of God because your explanation results in "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of TomL).
No Christian says man causes man's belief/faith to point at Christ because we Christians believe Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
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The Christ of us Christians lovingly declares "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), so, in effect, Christ says "You believing in Him whom He has sent" "is the work of God" (John 6:29); therefore, man does not work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus, but God does work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus (John 6:28-29).
The people asked Jesus "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God" (John 6:28), essentially "How does the works of man work the works of God".
Lord Jesus eliminates "the works of man" (John 6:28) entirely from the equation with His Powerful response "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), and the Apostle Paul is in accord with Jesus saying that God controls faith/belief unto salvation inside of man with absolutely no input by man:
by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10).
Your heart nullifies this Word of God because your explanation results in "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of TomL).
No Christian says man causes man's belief/faith to point at Christ because we Christians believe Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
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Handaan
Active member
Yeah buddy... that's what I'm talking about. Leave that teaching in the dust.
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"For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost" (Lord Jesus Christ, Luke 19:10).
As indeed He says in Hosea, “Those who were not My people I will call ‘My people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” (Romans 9:25).
"he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations" (Jeremiah 1:5).
"when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace" (the Apostle Paul, Galatians 1:15, FYI - the word "holy" means "set apart").
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:3-8).
You have people seeing King Jesus of the Kingdom of God, which Lord Jesus says an unborn of God person cannot righteously perceive, you have such people seeing that which the Christ of us Christians says they cannot see (John 3:3-8).
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"For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost" (Lord Jesus Christ, Luke 19:10).
As indeed He says in Hosea, “Those who were not My people I will call ‘My people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” (Romans 9:25).
"he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations" (Jeremiah 1:5).
"when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace" (the Apostle Paul, Galatians 1:15, FYI - the word "holy" means "set apart").
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:3-8).
You have people seeing King Jesus of the Kingdom of God, which Lord Jesus says an unborn of God person cannot righteously perceive, you have such people seeing that which the Christ of us Christians says they cannot see (John 3:3-8).
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"PS Judas was chosen was he saved" (your inquiry which was previously addressed).
If you don't know the answer to your question, then you certainly do not know the Word of God.
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"PS Judas was chosen was he saved" (your inquiry which was previously addressed).
If you don't know the answer to your question, then you certainly do not know the Word of God.
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I chose www.thefreedictionary.com/grant very specifically according to the Will of God, so I am fully aware that the first dictionary of the alphabetically listed dictionaries on the page is the American Heritage® Dictionary, so I acknowledge that American Heritage® Dictionary editors gave first position to "To allow or consent to the fulfillment of (something requested)", but that definition is not first in all dictionaries, as can be seen below.
The parentheses around the phrase "(something requested)" indicates that "something requested" is not required for the American Heritage® Dictionary 1st definition of "grant", so "to allow the fulfillment of" is a satisfactory definition according to the 1st definition of "grant" in the American Heritage® Dictionary.
Your "You deceptively ignored the first meaning given" writing is blatantly false witness against me.
In Webster's College Dictionary, just a little way down in www.thefreedictionary.com/grant, the 1st definition is:
v. grant·ed, grant·ing
n. v.t.
1. to confer, esp. by a formal act: to grant a charter.
2.
Your condescending "hello" is as faulty as your faulty thoughts about Holy Scripture, so let's camp out on this for the next few paragraphs.
You confusedly wrote "It is absurd you think faith is a substance like electricity which can be transferred". God says faith is imparted by God (John 6:28), and God says man is transferred into the Kingdom of God by God (John 3:3-8).
For example, regarding "transfer", you fail to understand that "He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the Kingdom of his beloved Son" (Colossians 1:13).
The word "grant" means to transfer, give, impart, confer (www.thefreedictionary.com/grant).
For example, grant deed transfers ownership of land to a recipient, and a grant deed can be executed without any contribution made by the recipient, not even a signature on the grant deed document; therefore, the grant deed can effectually cause the recipient of the grant deed to own said property.
The Apostle Paul's use of grant means God transfers/converts a person to believe as per the Apostle Paul's writing of "to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf" (Philippians 1:29).
I thank God who caused @brightfame52 to bring up Philippians 1:29.
Your linguistic confusion is manifest.
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I chose www.thefreedictionary.com/grant very specifically according to the Will of God, so I am fully aware that the first dictionary of the alphabetically listed dictionaries on the page is the American Heritage® Dictionary, so I acknowledge that American Heritage® Dictionary editors gave first position to "To allow or consent to the fulfillment of (something requested)", but that definition is not first in all dictionaries, as can be seen below.
The parentheses around the phrase "(something requested)" indicates that "something requested" is not required for the American Heritage® Dictionary 1st definition of "grant", so "to allow the fulfillment of" is a satisfactory definition according to the 1st definition of "grant" in the American Heritage® Dictionary.
Your "You deceptively ignored the first meaning given" writing is blatantly false witness against me.
In Webster's College Dictionary, just a little way down in www.thefreedictionary.com/grant, the 1st definition is:
grant
(grænt, grɑnt)v. grant·ed, grant·ing
n. v.t.
1. to confer, esp. by a formal act: to grant a charter.
2.
Your condescending "hello" is as faulty as your faulty thoughts about Holy Scripture, so let's camp out on this for the next few paragraphs.
You confusedly wrote "It is absurd you think faith is a substance like electricity which can be transferred". God says faith is imparted by God (John 6:28), and God says man is transferred into the Kingdom of God by God (John 3:3-8).
For example, regarding "transfer", you fail to understand that "He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the Kingdom of his beloved Son" (Colossians 1:13).
The word "grant" means to transfer, give, impart, confer (www.thefreedictionary.com/grant).
For example, grant deed transfers ownership of land to a recipient, and a grant deed can be executed without any contribution made by the recipient, not even a signature on the grant deed document; therefore, the grant deed can effectually cause the recipient of the grant deed to own said property.
The Apostle Paul's use of grant means God transfers/converts a person to believe as per the Apostle Paul's writing of "to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf" (Philippians 1:29).
I thank God who caused @brightfame52 to bring up Philippians 1:29.
Your linguistic confusion is manifest.
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You wrote "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (you made it your heart's treasure by quoting it) about John 6:29, so your thoughts produce "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of TomL) which is NOT keeping “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).
As recorded in post #1,116, you call "repeat garbage" this wonderful Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), but you didn't stop there.
Not only do you call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), bur your heart proceeds to add to the Word of God producing the word of TomL instead "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent".
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You wrote "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (you made it your heart's treasure by quoting it) about John 6:29, so your thoughts produce "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of TomL) which is NOT keeping “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).
As recorded in post #1,116, you call "repeat garbage" this wonderful Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), but you didn't stop there.
Not only do you call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), bur your heart proceeds to add to the Word of God producing the word of TomL instead "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent".
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All of "grace" and "saved" and "faith" are precisely the "the gift of God", yet each of "grace" and "saved" and "faith" are "not of yourselves".
These "grace" and "saved" and "faith" blessings of God are absolutely "His work" (Ephesians 2:8-10).
The Apostle Paul wrote:
"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).
In Ephesians chapter 2, Paul introduces the development for the concept of "by grace you have been saved" in Ephesians 2:5, then Paul proceeded through the intervening verses to the fully developed big reveal of "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" in Ephesians 2:8.
Paul expanded on what he started to talk about in Ephesians 2:5; moreover, in Ephesians 2:8, Paul makes it Spiritually and grammatically clear that faith is inextricably included in the "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".
The Greek grammar of Ephesians 2:8 is multi-faceted, so let's look at these ten words, at constructs such as Greek language case/gender/number which establish communication, so here they are:
Since both "you" and "yourselves" are second person and plural count, then the word "yourselves" refers specifically to the complete sentence subject of "you"; therefore, the word "that" arbitrates the thing that is "not of yourselves" as well as "the gift of God".
A noun is the subject of a sentence, and a verb is an action by or on the subject of the sentence; moreover, a verb is not the subject of a sentence, and this is fundamental grammar.
A nuance of inflective languages is that a sentence's verb can concretely indicate the sentence's subject noun without including the specific word for the noun in the sentence. Both Greek and Spanish are examples of such inflective languages.
In Ephesians 2:8, the Greek verb ἐστε (Strong’s 1510 – εἰμί – eimi – am, are, is) translates to the English verb "are", and we know ἐστε equals “are” because of the inflection of ἐστε which is both second person, "you", and this "you" is plural; therefore, the Greek verb ἐστε (are) implicitly indicates the sentence’s subject noun “you” for this sentence:
The English word "you" is concretely the subject.
As is clearly evident in Ephesians 2:8, Paul utilized no full grammatical inflective agreement between the words, for example, he did not precisely tie objects back to the subject using case/number/gender agreement.
There is a principle in Greek grammar which dictates that in the absence of full inflective agreement, then the word order in the sentence becomes paramount, so the word order in Ephesians 2:8 dictates relationship between the words.
Essentially, this principle of Greek grammar word order antecedent placement results in the fact that the phrase "faith and that not of yourselves" is specifically stating that faith is not of man while at the same time specifically stating faith is truly the work of God because of "it is the gift of God".
As a minimum basis, the word order principle plays a role in the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8.
There is more to the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8, such as "God" and "faith" are the only genitive and singular two words in Ephesians 2:8, and both of these words have an antecedent that is neuter, and a neuter can be an antecedent to both masculine words and feminine words, so this grammatical structure binds the words "God" and "faith" together in Ephesians 2:8, and yet there is more to the grammatical structure such that the following is entirely Truth (John 14:6).
We have 3 clauses in Ephesians 2:8:
The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "not of yourselves".
The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "the gift of God".
The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is composed of the constituent parts of "grace" and "saved" and "faith".
When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of
by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
One of the grammatical functions of the genitive case is to establish association between two nouns. Paul used the genitive and singular combination for only two words in Ephesians 2:8, and these two words are the masculine "God" and the feminine "faith".
In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes it clear that the work of faith is not a work of man, yet the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 clearly state that faith is the work of God.
The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
On the other hand, your heart's belief about Paul is that "He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God which adulterates Paul's writing to no longer be Paul's writing but truly to be your writing with:
by grace you are savedthrough faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
(the word of TomL corrupting Ephesians 2:8-10)
You are out of accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
continued to post #1,472
All of "grace" and "saved" and "faith" are precisely the "the gift of God", yet each of "grace" and "saved" and "faith" are "not of yourselves".
These "grace" and "saved" and "faith" blessings of God are absolutely "His work" (Ephesians 2:8-10).
The True Grammar of Ephesians 2:8-10
The Apostle Paul wrote:
"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).
Paul expanded on what he started to talk about in Ephesians 2:5; moreover, in Ephesians 2:8, Paul makes it Spiritually and grammatically clear that faith is inextricably included in the "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".
The Greek grammar of Ephesians 2:8 is multi-faceted, so let's look at these ten words, at constructs such as Greek language case/gender/number which establish communication, so here they are:
- grace - noun - dative/feminine/singular
- you is exclusively the subject in (Ephesians 2:8), and "you" is derived from the second person and plural count of the inflection of the verb "are".
- are - verb - is a present, indicative, active verb in the second person and plural count
- saved - verb - nominative/masculine/plural
- faith - noun - genitive/feminine/singular
- and - conjunction
- that - demonstrative pronoun - nominative/neuter/singular
- yourselves - personal pronoun - genitive in the second person with plural count.
- God - noun - genitive/masculine/singular
- gift - noun - nominative/neuter/singular
Since both "you" and "yourselves" are second person and plural count, then the word "yourselves" refers specifically to the complete sentence subject of "you"; therefore, the word "that" arbitrates the thing that is "not of yourselves" as well as "the gift of God".
A noun is the subject of a sentence, and a verb is an action by or on the subject of the sentence; moreover, a verb is not the subject of a sentence, and this is fundamental grammar.
A nuance of inflective languages is that a sentence's verb can concretely indicate the sentence's subject noun without including the specific word for the noun in the sentence. Both Greek and Spanish are examples of such inflective languages.
In Ephesians 2:8, the Greek verb ἐστε (Strong’s 1510 – εἰμί – eimi – am, are, is) translates to the English verb "are", and we know ἐστε equals “are” because of the inflection of ἐστε which is both second person, "you", and this "you" is plural; therefore, the Greek verb ἐστε (are) implicitly indicates the sentence’s subject noun “you” for this sentence:
The English word "you" is concretely the subject.
As is clearly evident in Ephesians 2:8, Paul utilized no full grammatical inflective agreement between the words, for example, he did not precisely tie objects back to the subject using case/number/gender agreement.
There is a principle in Greek grammar which dictates that in the absence of full inflective agreement, then the word order in the sentence becomes paramount, so the word order in Ephesians 2:8 dictates relationship between the words.
Essentially, this principle of Greek grammar word order antecedent placement results in the fact that the phrase "faith and that not of yourselves" is specifically stating that faith is not of man while at the same time specifically stating faith is truly the work of God because of "it is the gift of God".
As a minimum basis, the word order principle plays a role in the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8.
There is more to the grammatical structure of Ephesians 2:8, such as "God" and "faith" are the only genitive and singular two words in Ephesians 2:8, and both of these words have an antecedent that is neuter, and a neuter can be an antecedent to both masculine words and feminine words, so this grammatical structure binds the words "God" and "faith" together in Ephesians 2:8, and yet there is more to the grammatical structure such that the following is entirely Truth (John 14:6).
We have 3 clauses in Ephesians 2:8:
- by grace you are saved through faith
- and that not of yourselves
- it is the gift of God
The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "not of yourselves".
The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "the gift of God".
The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is composed of the constituent parts of "grace" and "saved" and "faith".
When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of
- grace is not a work of man while being the work of God.
- savedbis not a work of man while being the work of God.
- faith is not a work of man while being the work of God.
by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes it clear that the work of faith is not a work of man, yet the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 clearly state that faith is the work of God.
The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
On the other hand, your heart's belief about Paul is that "He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God which adulterates Paul's writing to no longer be Paul's writing but truly to be your writing with:
by grace you are saved
(the word of TomL corrupting Ephesians 2:8-10)
You are out of accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
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The Apostle John obviously believed that the Word of God is the Power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16), and John recorded this Word of God "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), so John knows that saving faith in a person is caused by the Word of God.
The Apostle John wrote “these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name” (John 20:31).
Among the writings of John includes the statements of Jesus “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19). These sayings of Jesus Christ, Lord and God (John 20:28), are part and parcel of the exclusive attribute of Jesus with respect to choice in the salvation of all His sheep in all time.
John’s writings are for us believers to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing we have life in His Name; therefore, belief in Jesus about whom John wrote includes the exclusive centrality of choice reserved to Jesus by Jesus through Jesus in the salvation of all His sheep in all time.
Well, since Christ establishes who are His friends in John 15:15-16, then the applicability of John 15:16-19 to all Christians in all time is clearly evident. Even you claim to be Christ's friend.
THE EFFECTUAL RESULT OF YOUR CLAIM OF BEING CHRIST' FRIEND.
You answered "Yes" to the question of "Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, @TomL?" as recorded in post #576, so you, @TomL, reveal your confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) as you assert that in John 15:15-16, as shown below, that Jesus' first two "you" occurrences apply to you, @TomL personally, but that Jesus' second two "you" occurrences apply "exclusively to the apostles":
I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:15-16).
Christ uses "you" to indicate all Christians in all time are chosen by God alone unto salvation as well as to bring the message of Christ's salvation to the world when King Jesus majestically decrees "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Your evasion of the King's decree is a terror.
Your heart's treasure results in "I have called you with that guy TomL friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You apostles here now did not choose Me but I chose exclusively you apostles" (the confused word of TomL).
Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! HALLELUJAH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!! I THANK FOR YOUR POWERFUL WORKS!!!
The Apostle John obviously believed that the Word of God is the Power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16), and John recorded this Word of God "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), so John knows that saving faith in a person is caused by the Word of God.
JOHN’S WRITINGS FOR US BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME
The Apostle John wrote “these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name” (John 20:31).
Among the writings of John includes the statements of Jesus “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19). These sayings of Jesus Christ, Lord and God (John 20:28), are part and parcel of the exclusive attribute of Jesus with respect to choice in the salvation of all His sheep in all time.
John’s writings are for us believers to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing we have life in His Name; therefore, belief in Jesus about whom John wrote includes the exclusive centrality of choice reserved to Jesus by Jesus through Jesus in the salvation of all His sheep in all time.
Well, since Christ establishes who are His friends in John 15:15-16, then the applicability of John 15:16-19 to all Christians in all time is clearly evident. Even you claim to be Christ's friend.
THE EFFECTUAL RESULT OF YOUR CLAIM OF BEING CHRIST' FRIEND.
You answered "Yes" to the question of "Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, @TomL?" as recorded in post #576, so you, @TomL, reveal your confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) as you assert that in John 15:15-16, as shown below, that Jesus' first two "you" occurrences apply to you, @TomL personally, but that Jesus' second two "you" occurrences apply "exclusively to the apostles":
I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:15-16).
Christ uses "you" to indicate all Christians in all time are chosen by God alone unto salvation as well as to bring the message of Christ's salvation to the world when King Jesus majestically decrees "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Your evasion of the King's decree is a terror.
Your heart's treasure results in "I have called you with that guy TomL friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You apostles here now did not choose Me but I chose exclusively you apostles" (the confused word of TomL).
Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! HALLELUJAH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!! I THANK FOR YOUR POWERFUL WORKS!!!
Azriel
Well-known member
It happens that way heading west.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Even though Pharaoh did everything God predetermined for him to do, in his disobeying Gods command, yet he did it willingly, he confessed himself In Exodus 9:27
27 And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the Lord is righteous, and I and my people are wicked.
27 And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the Lord is righteous, and I and my people are wicked.
LOL
Um he obviously believed his writings were sufficient for belief
'
John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
and that faith precedes the impartation of life
both of which are contrary to your theology
You running elsewhere does not change that
sorry it is man who must believe so it is not possible faith is not of himself
and no one argues faith comes by means of work
so your view is not quite rational
which may be why even your own peers disagree
Again the gift of God is salvation not faith
Again even your own peers can be found contrary to your claims
And that not of yourselves. That is, salvation does not proceed from yourselves. The word rendered that—τοῦτο—is in the neuter gender, and the word faith—πίστις—is in the feminine. The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to the salvation by grace of which he had been speaking. This is the interpretation of the passage which is the most obvious, and which is now generally conceded to be the true one; see Bloomfield1
1 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Ephesians, Philippians & Colossians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 42.
But they commonly misintepret this text, and restrict the word ‘gift’ to faith alone. But Paul is only repeating his earlier statement in other words. He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God … " (from, Calvin’s Commentaries 4:145
For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.
A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.
Repeating your claims over and over does not make them any stronger
Calvin disagreed with you Barnes disagreed with you
They are both Calvinists and not Christian according to you
as does scripture
Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Believe is in the active voivce
which means it is something man must do - in other words it is of himself
You will also note The apostle does not state you can do nothing
BTW your grammatical claim is false
Greek words have gender: masculine, feminine, and neuter. When relative pronouns (such as “that” and “it”) are used to refer back to a noun, they always agree with the gender of the noun. The word “faith” in Greek is feminine. Therefore, if Paul was intending to say that faith is not of ourselves, but faith is a gift of God, he would have used a feminine relative pronoun for the word “that” (the word “it” is not actually in the Greek).
But the word “that” is not feminine; it is neuter.
Therefore, it is impossible for Paul to be thinking about “faith” when he wrote “and that is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.”
It is grammatically impossible for the word “that” to refer to “faith” in Ephesians 2:8.
So what was Paul referring to, if not to faith?
Ephesians 2:8-9 in Context
You can read my longer explanation of Ephesians 2:8-9 here, or in my book What is Faith?, but let me summarize the meaning of the text for you here.
As stated previously, Greek pronouns must agree with their antecedent in gender, number, and case. Faith is feminine, and the pronoun “that” is neuter, so the pronoun cannot be pointing back to faith.
So to what does the pronoun refer?
The problem is that there is no neuter noun in the preceding context.
So what was Paul referring to, if not to faith?
The answer is that Paul is referring to the entire “salvation package” that he has written about in Ephesians 2. The description of Paul about what God has provided to us in Jesus contains a mixture of masculine and feminine nouns. So Paul uses a neuter pronoun to refer to the entire “salvation package.”
or you can just believe scripture
Romans 6:23 (ESV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Nowhere do we read god infuses or effectually causes faith in man
sorry again you assume your interpretation
John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)
This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.
Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.
The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
ignoring all contrary voices
and the overall context of john who tells us the reason he writes
John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
he writes that you might believe
Hello you claim is contrary to what john writes
Sorry you had given as a reference www.thefreedictionary.com/grant
this is what it states
grant
Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Financial, Idioms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
Related to grant: Cary Grant, Ulysses S Grant
grant
(grănt)tr.v. grant·ed, grant·ing, grants
1. To allow or consent to the fulfillment of (something requested): grant permission to speak frankly; grant a request.
2.
a. To give or confer officially or formally: grant voting rights to citizens; grant diplomatic immunity.
b. To transfer (property) by a deed.
3. To concede; acknowledge: I grant that your plan is ingenious, but you still will not find many backers.
n.
1. The act of granting.
but you had reported
that is deceptive
No i did not write. Your namesake calvin wrote
John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)
as did the calvinist barnes
This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.
and these other greek scholarst
Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.
The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
and it is not the word of God that ia]\s garbage but your interpretations which cannot even be affirmed by your own peers
