praise_yeshua
Active Member
I can go into detail but godhead is a poor choice of words in Col 2:9 that comes from Wycliffe and Tyndale. Check what your ESV says there.
Oops. Awkward Translations
- Thread starter mikesw
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
I agree. Sky is a much better choice of words that comes primarily from Greek sources.
A good example of bad influence in word choices is how Hebrews 13 deals with rule or ruler as in the KJV. It shows a blatant bias in what King James wanted out of his transition.
The word "rule" in the English language carries the connotation of suffering and oppression because of the English empire and kings such as James and others. When we speak of Christ ruling hearts and peoples, those connotations are inherently part of our message if we do not deal with the baggage of what this world's rulers bring to the conversation. Christ in my heart has been a pleasure.
This goes all the way back to when Samuel had to deal with Israel wanting to have a King. The very concept of a King of Kings came out of Persian rule. Our Messiah is our servant. He isn't like anyone else. He is my Friend.
I was just having fun quoting an old text.
Colossians 2:9 (ESV)
9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
Colossians 2:9 (NRSV)
9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
"
The funny thing is that the translator team often ends up presenting difficult passages in the best way even when commentators give a weaker translation. One text that bothers me is when the order of words in Rom 4:1 is messed up.
We have some options
Romans 4:1 (NASB95)
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
Romans 4:1 (ESV)
1What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
Romans 4:1 (HCSB)
1What then can we say that Abraham, our physical ancestor, has found?
Romans 4:1 (NKJV)
1What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
Only the NKJV provides the decent word order and translation of words necessary to figure out Paul's point. The idea of "according to the flesh" adds a twist to what is said earlier. Basically anything that we speculate (i.e. what shall we say...) about Abraham's view on the issue of Romans 3 is made foolish when wondering what Abraham found beneficial through his flesh.
In this case, the translators do the best to find words people understand but the translation obscures the actual message.
We have some options
Romans 4:1 (NASB95)
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
Romans 4:1 (ESV)
1What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
Romans 4:1 (HCSB)
1What then can we say that Abraham, our physical ancestor, has found?
Romans 4:1 (NKJV)
1What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
Only the NKJV provides the decent word order and translation of words necessary to figure out Paul's point. The idea of "according to the flesh" adds a twist to what is said earlier. Basically anything that we speculate (i.e. what shall we say...) about Abraham's view on the issue of Romans 3 is made foolish when wondering what Abraham found beneficial through his flesh.
In this case, the translators do the best to find words people understand but the translation obscures the actual message.
civic
Active Member
Colossians 2:9
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2320: θεότης
θεότης, θεότητος, ἡ (deitas, Tertullian, Augustine (de civ. Dei 7, 1)), deity i. e. the state of being God, Godhead: Colossians 2:9. (Lucian, Icar. 9; Plutarch, de defect. orac. 10, p. 415 c.) [SYNONYMS: θεότης, θειότης: θεότης deity differs from θειότηςdivinity, as essence differs from quality or attribute; cf. Trench, § ii.; Lightfoot or Meyer on Colossians, the passage cited; Fritzsche on Romans 1:20.]
Topical Lexicon
Divine Fullness in Christ
Colossians 2:9 declares, “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells bodily”. The single New Testament use of θεότης (theotēs) concentrates the entire biblical witness to Jesus Christ as the complete and personal embodiment of true God. Paul does not merely claim that Christ shares in divinity; he insists that the exhaustive reality of God—His essence, attributes, and prerogatives—permanently resides in the incarnate Son. The verse stands as the apostolic safeguard against any doctrine that would reduce Jesus to a semi-divine intermediary or exalted creature.
Distinction from Other Terms for Deity
Throughout Scripture several words express divine qualities, yet θεότης uniquely denotes full personal Godhood. Romans 1:20 employs θεῖότης (theiotēs) to speak of God’s “divine nature” discernible in creation, but Colossians 2:9 uses θεότης to point to the inherent identity of God Himself. The choice of term underscores that Christ is not merely a bearer of divine attributes; He is God in the absolute sense.
Christological Implications
1. Full Deity and True Humanity: By affirming that the fullness of deity dwells “bodily,” Paul safeguards both natures in the one Person of Christ (cf. John 1:14; Hebrews 2:14).
2. Sufficiency for Salvation: Because Christ is wholly God, His atoning work is of infinite worth (cf. Hebrews 9:14). The subsequent verse, Colossians 2:10, therefore proclaims believers are “complete in Him.”
3. Foundation for Trinitarian Doctrine: The verse dovetails with other explicit passages on the deity of the Son (John 1:1; Titus 2:13) and the personhood of the Spirit (Acts 5:3-4), cohering into the scriptural doctrine of one God in three Persons.
Historical Confessional Impact
The testimony of Colossians 2:9 was pivotal in the early Church’s defense against Arianism. The Nicene Creed’s assertion of Christ as “very God of very God” echoes Paul’s language. Subsequent councils and confessions consistently appealed to this text to affirm that the Son shares the same essence (ὁμοούσιος) with the Father, excluding any notion of created or lesser divinity.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2320: θεότης
θεότης, θεότητος, ἡ (deitas, Tertullian, Augustine (de civ. Dei 7, 1)), deity i. e. the state of being God, Godhead: Colossians 2:9. (Lucian, Icar. 9; Plutarch, de defect. orac. 10, p. 415 c.) [SYNONYMS: θεότης, θειότης: θεότης deity differs from θειότηςdivinity, as essence differs from quality or attribute; cf. Trench, § ii.; Lightfoot or Meyer on Colossians, the passage cited; Fritzsche on Romans 1:20.]
Topical Lexicon
Divine Fullness in Christ
Colossians 2:9 declares, “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells bodily”. The single New Testament use of θεότης (theotēs) concentrates the entire biblical witness to Jesus Christ as the complete and personal embodiment of true God. Paul does not merely claim that Christ shares in divinity; he insists that the exhaustive reality of God—His essence, attributes, and prerogatives—permanently resides in the incarnate Son. The verse stands as the apostolic safeguard against any doctrine that would reduce Jesus to a semi-divine intermediary or exalted creature.
Distinction from Other Terms for Deity
Throughout Scripture several words express divine qualities, yet θεότης uniquely denotes full personal Godhood. Romans 1:20 employs θεῖότης (theiotēs) to speak of God’s “divine nature” discernible in creation, but Colossians 2:9 uses θεότης to point to the inherent identity of God Himself. The choice of term underscores that Christ is not merely a bearer of divine attributes; He is God in the absolute sense.
Christological Implications
1. Full Deity and True Humanity: By affirming that the fullness of deity dwells “bodily,” Paul safeguards both natures in the one Person of Christ (cf. John 1:14; Hebrews 2:14).
2. Sufficiency for Salvation: Because Christ is wholly God, His atoning work is of infinite worth (cf. Hebrews 9:14). The subsequent verse, Colossians 2:10, therefore proclaims believers are “complete in Him.”
3. Foundation for Trinitarian Doctrine: The verse dovetails with other explicit passages on the deity of the Son (John 1:1; Titus 2:13) and the personhood of the Spirit (Acts 5:3-4), cohering into the scriptural doctrine of one God in three Persons.
Historical Confessional Impact
The testimony of Colossians 2:9 was pivotal in the early Church’s defense against Arianism. The Nicene Creed’s assertion of Christ as “very God of very God” echoes Paul’s language. Subsequent councils and confessions consistently appealed to this text to affirm that the Son shares the same essence (ὁμοούσιος) with the Father, excluding any notion of created or lesser divinity.
I use the Logos software. I had to get it for school and unfortunately had to buy it instead of getting it as part of the tuition. Of course it has everything that most people could ever need. Well. Still a variety of journal content has to be obtained separately and people may want books not purchased within Logos.
