Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".

[brightfame52]

Here are the clearest verses that explicitly say Christ died for all mankind / every human being

No such scripture exist

 

[FreeInChrist]

No such scripture exist

When you learn the meaning of the written word, then come back and say that.

You are wrong...

Crystal clear:

2 Corinthians 5:14–15	“For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves…” (ESV, NASB, NIV, KJV all identical)	“All” (Greek πάντων / πάντας) twice in one sentence — universal scope.
1 Timothy 2:6	“who gave himself as a ransom for all” (ἀντίλυτρον ὑπὲρ πάντων)	Same Greek phrase used for “all mankind” in v. 4 just two verses earlier.
Hebrews 2:9	“that he… might taste death for everyone” (ὑπὲρ παντός)	The context (vv. 5–18) is Jesus becoming man to save the human race.
1 John 2:2	“He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.” (περὶ ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου)	“Whole world” = every person in the world, not just the elect.
John 3:16 (with v. 17)	“God so loved the world… that whoever believes… For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”	“World” (κόσμος) 6 times = the entire human race.
Isaiah 53:6 (quoted in NT)	“All we like sheep have gone astray… and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.”	Universal language fulfilled in Christ.

Scripture explicitly teaches that Jesus died for every human being without exception. (How that universal atonement is applied — limited to believers only — is a separate question, but the scope of who He died for is plainly “all mankind.”)

 

[brightfame52]

When you learn the meaning of the written word, then come back and say that.

Again no such scripture exist

 

[FreeInChrist]

Again no such scripture exist

“For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves…

Repeating... when you learn the meaning of the written word.............

You expect it will be word for word and it will not.

 

[brightfame52]

“For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves…

Repeating... when you learn the meaning of the written word.............

You expect it will be word for word and it will not.

Again no such scripture exist

 

[civic]

Ephesians is such a difficult book.

In context, chapter 2 is talking about the believers at Ephesus having been (metaphorically) dead in sins, and then quickened - that is, made to be alive. It is a resurrection of a sort.

Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; ... 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

The way that the verse declares ARE SAVED has led many to think of salvation as a single act that happens at a moment in time. That's a MISunderstanding. Here in Ephesians 2, this singular event is only the beginning of salvation for the Ephesians.

The rest of the book goes on to exhort the Ephesians - now that they have been resurrected - to stay the course, to walk out the path of salvation, and contend for the faith. The book finishes talking about putting on "the full armor of God" and fighting against satan and the powers of this world.

TL;DR - Ephesians 2 is about regeneration, and there's a whole lot that comes after that initial event that is the real focus of the book.

There is a single point in time when one becomes born again and experiences salvation/eternal life. Maybe you are taking about the road to sanctification.

 

[Wick Stick]

There is a single point in time when one becomes born again

Yes, and this is what Ephesians 2 is talking about.

...and experiences salvation/eternal life. Maybe you are taking about the road to sanctification.

I would say that they begin to walk in salvation at that point. Salvation is a state of being.

Sanctification is something different, although many Protestant churches seem to define it the way you're using it. I think they are using the word wrong, though I am in fact Protestant myself.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes, and this is what Ephesians 2 is talking about.

I would say that they begin to walk in salvation at that point. Salvation is a state of being.

Sanctification is something different, although many Protestant churches seem to define it the way you're using it. I think they are using the word wrong, though I am in fact Protestant myself.

Good morning Jarrod,

Okay, first I did not read why you feel the Protestant churches use Sanctification in the wrong way... but , and perhaps I am wrong... but before I go off I want to say I actually agree with you that salvation IS a state of being. I was fully saved/justified the moment I believed. What I've experienced since then is the "progressive" sanctification that flows from my salvation and I am not certain anyone who is not aware in their own lives can understand.

 

[TomL]

Again no such scripture exist

That he died for all

2 Cor 5:14–15 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

1 Tim 2:3–6 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

Heb 2:9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Rom 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

2 Pet 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

---

 

[brightfame52]

That he died for all

2 Cor 5:14–15 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

1 Tim 2:3–6 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

Heb 2:9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Rom 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

The Elect

 

[Wick Stick]

Good morning Jarrod,

Okay, first I did not read why you feel the Protestant churches use Sanctification in the wrong way...

I didn't say before because it didn't seem important. It's just a matter of words...

In my reading of the Bible, I find that what Protestant churches call sanctification is what the Bible calls justification, and likewise what they call justification is what the Bible calls sanctification.

I figure if we all believe in the same things, it doesn't matter too much if we get our jargon a little mixed up

 

[FreeInChrist]

I didn't say before because it didn't seem important. It's just a matter of words...

In my reading of the Bible, I find that what Protestant churches call sanctification is what the Bible calls justification, and likewise what they call justification is what the Bible calls sanctification.

I figure if we all believe in the same things, it doesn't matter too much if we get our jargon a little mixed up

 

[atpollard]

I didn't say before because it didn't seem important. It's just a matter of words...

In my reading of the Bible, I find that what Protestant churches call sanctification is what the Bible calls justification, and likewise what they call justification is what the Bible calls sanctification.

I figure if we all believe in the same things, it doesn't matter too much if we get our jargon a little mixed up

Just checking for clarification:

[Rom 4:25 NASB95] 25 [He] who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.[G1347]

[Rom 5:18 NASB95] 18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification[G1347] of life to all men.

Strong’s G1347
δικαίωσις dikaíōsis, dik-ah'-yo-sis; from G1344; aquittal (for Christ's sake):—justification.

JUSTIFICATION (Theopedia)
Justification is the doctrine that God pardons, accepts, and declares a sinner to be "just" on the basis of Christ's righteousness (Rom 3:24-26; 4:25; 5:15-21) which results in God's peace (Rom 5:1), His Spirit (Rom 8:4), and salvation. Justification is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ apart from all works and merit of the sinner (cf. Rom 1:18-3:28).


[Rom 6:19, 22 NASB95] 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in [further] lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.[G38] ... 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification,[G38] and the outcome, eternal life.

[1Co 1:30 NASB95] 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification,[G38] and redemption,

[1Th 4:3-4, 7 NASB95] 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification;[G38] [that is,] that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification[G38] and honor, ... 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.[G38]

[2Th 2:13 NASB95] 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification[G38] by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

[1Ti 2:15 NASB95] 15 But [women] will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity[G38] with self-restraint.

[Heb 12:14 NASB95] 14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification[G38] without which no one will see the Lord.

[1Pe 1:2 NASB95] 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying[G38] work[G38] of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Strong’s G38
ἁγιασμός hagiasmós, hag-ee-as-mos'; from G37; properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier:—holiness, sanctification.

SANCTIFICATION (Theopedia)
Sanctification, or in its verbal form, sanctify, literally means "to set apart" for special use or purpose, that is, to make holy or sacred. Therefore, sanctification refers to the state or process of being set apart, i.e. made holy. In systematic theology, the term often carries a technical meaning that differs from the biblical word group. Sanctification is regularly equated with the Christian life. In Wesleyan theology, it can refer to a moment of "Entire Sanctification," in which one reaches a state of Christian Perfection.

Now we all know.

 

[Wick Stick]

Just checking for clarification:

[Rom 4:25 NASB95] 25 [He] who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.[G1347]

[Rom 5:18 NASB95] 18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification[G1347] of life to all men.

Strong’s G1347
δικαίωσις dikaíōsis, dik-ah'-yo-sis; from G1344; aquittal (for Christ's sake):—justification.

JUSTIFICATION (Theopedia)
Justification is the doctrine that God pardons, accepts, and declares a sinner to be "just" on the basis of Christ's righteousness (Rom 3:24-26; 4:25; 5:15-21) which results in God's peace (Rom 5:1), His Spirit (Rom 8:4), and salvation. Justification is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ apart from all works and merit of the sinner (cf. Rom 1:18-3:28).


[Rom 6:19, 22 NASB95] 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in [further] lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.[G38] ... 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification,[G38] and the outcome, eternal life.

[1Co 1:30 NASB95] 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification,[G38] and redemption,

[1Th 4:3-4, 7 NASB95] 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification;[G38] [that is,] that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification[G38] and honor, ... 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.[G38]

[2Th 2:13 NASB95] 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification[G38] by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

[1Ti 2:15 NASB95] 15 But [women] will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity[G38] with self-restraint.

[Heb 12:14 NASB95] 14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification[G38] without which no one will see the Lord.

[1Pe 1:2 NASB95] 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying[G38] work[G38] of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Strong’s G38
ἁγιασμός hagiasmós, hag-ee-as-mos'; from G37; properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier:—holiness, sanctification.

SANCTIFICATION (Theopedia)
Sanctification, or in its verbal form, sanctify, literally means "to set apart" for special use or purpose, that is, to make holy or sacred. Therefore, sanctification refers to the state or process of being set apart, i.e. made holy. In systematic theology, the term often carries a technical meaning that differs from the biblical word group. Sanctification is regularly equated with the Christian life. In Wesleyan theology, it can refer to a moment of "Entire Sanctification," in which one reaches a state of Christian Perfection.

Now we all know.

How I read your post:

[jargon] [jargon] [jargon] [jargon] but that [jargon] [jargon] [jargon] [jargon]. Useless contradiction!

 

[FreeInChrist]

Just checking for clarification:

[Rom 4:25 NASB95] 25 [He] who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.[G1347]

[Rom 5:18 NASB95] 18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification[G1347] of life to all men.

Strong’s G1347
δικαίωσις dikaíōsis, dik-ah'-yo-sis; from G1344; aquittal (for Christ's sake):—justification.

JUSTIFICATION (Theopedia)
Justification is the doctrine that God pardons, accepts, and declares a sinner to be "just" on the basis of Christ's righteousness (Rom 3:24-26; 4:25; 5:15-21) which results in God's peace (Rom 5:1), His Spirit (Rom 8:4), and salvation. Justification is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ apart from all works and merit of the sinner (cf. Rom 1:18-3:28).


[Rom 6:19, 22 NASB95] 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in [further] lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.[G38] ... 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification,[G38] and the outcome, eternal life.

[1Co 1:30 NASB95] 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification,[G38] and redemption,

[1Th 4:3-4, 7 NASB95] 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification;[G38] [that is,] that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification[G38] and honor, ... 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.[G38]

[2Th 2:13 NASB95] 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification[G38] by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

[1Ti 2:15 NASB95] 15 But [women] will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity[G38] with self-restraint.

[Heb 12:14 NASB95] 14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification[G38] without which no one will see the Lord.

[1Pe 1:2 NASB95] 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying[G38] work[G38] of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Strong’s G38
ἁγιασμός hagiasmós, hag-ee-as-mos'; from G37; properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier:—holiness, sanctification.

SANCTIFICATION (Theopedia)
Sanctification, or in its verbal form, sanctify, literally means "to set apart" for special use or purpose, that is, to make holy or sacred. Therefore, sanctification refers to the state or process of being set apart, i.e. made holy. In systematic theology, the term often carries a technical meaning that differs from the biblical word group. Sanctification is regularly equated with the Christian life. In Wesleyan theology, it can refer to a moment of "Entire Sanctification," in which one reaches a state of Christian Perfection.

Now we all know.

Thank you for this.... it is appreciated....

Unless you have a quick explanation for..... [1Ti 2:15 NASB95] 15 But [women] will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity[G38] with self-restraint....... I'll look into this further just to be sure that women that do not have children are covered... and that having children is not considered a saving work

 

[FreeInChrist]

How I read your post:

[jargon] [jargon] [jargon] [jargon] but that [jargon] [jargon] [jargon] [jargon]. Useless contradiction!

Well, I understood... amazingly so but let me give you my beliefs....

Justification​

Justification is a legal declaration by God the Father that a sinner is righteous in His sight. And this happens only once, at the moment of genuine faith.

Sanctification​

Sanctification is the ongoing work of God in the believer to make them actually holy in life and conduct. And this continues
progressively through out the "Christian" life.

We can go deeper if you want.

​

​

​

​

 

[atpollard]

How I read your post:

[jargon] [jargon] [jargon] [jargon] but that [jargon] [jargon] [jargon] [jargon]. Useless contradiction!

Your reading comprehension is not my fault.

You claimed to compare:

1. How the Bible uses Justification
2. How the Church uses Justification

and

1. How the Bible uses Sanctification
2. How the Church uses Sanctification

I posted:

1. The NT Bible verses using Justification
2. Strong’s definition of the actual Greek word
3. The Church definition of Justification (from Theopedia)

And

1. The NT Bible verses using Sanctification
2. Strong’s definition of the actual Greek word
3. The Church definition of Sanctification (from Theopedia)

I simply offered EXPLICITLY what you described IMPLICITLY so everyone (including me) could compare what the Bible says to what the Church says for themselves (without needing to take your word for it).

 

[atpollard]

Thank you for this.... it is appreciated....

Unless you have a quick explanation for..... [1Ti 2:15 NASB95] 15 But [women] will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity[G38] with self-restraint....... I'll look into this further just to be sure that women that do not have children are covered... and that having children is not considered a saving workView attachment 2682

Nope, I have nothing to offer.
I just listed the verses that used the word, Strong’s definition of the Greek word, and how the Church defines the word so anyone that wants can compare all three.

However, my money says that “having children” is not a saving work (based on all the verses on salvation based on grace and faith and NOT WORKS).

 

[FreeInChrist]

Nope, I have nothing to offer.
I just listed the verses that used the word, Strong’s definition of the Greek word, and how the Church defines the word so anyone that wants can compare all three.

However, my money says that “having children” is not a saving work (based on all the verses on salvation based on grace and faith and NOT WORKS).

Just a friendly comment but I can assure yo that bearing children is a whole lot of work. And I dont have any.....!

But I am sure it is not salvific work...

Merry Christmas....

Many blessings...

I am back to that meaningful work called housework for the family coming tomorrow.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Just a friendly comment but I can assure yo that bearing children is a whole lot of work. And I dont have any.....!

But I am sure it is not salvific work...

Merry Christmas....

Many blessings...

I am back to that meaningful work called housework for the family coming tomorrow.

Lot of suffering involved. Work/suffering.

It is an analogous to the work of God in birthing the Church. The Body of Christ.

At every "turn", Christ is pictured in Creation and almost every action taken "under the sun". It is what confirms the reality of the Gospel that leaves mankind without excuse whether they embrace God or not. Their very existence is written in the "work of God" in Christ.

The very reason we hunger and are designed to hunger/require food is so Jesus Christ could step out of heaven one day and declare....

I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE.....

The reason we "thirst" and require water to sustain our lives is so Jesus Christ step out of heaven and declare "he that believeth on me shall never thirst."

Joh_7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

He is "living water".....