An Article on free will

[TomL]

You commit a similar crime against God as your friend named @TibiasDad. You preach your thoughts absent of the Word of God.

You preach your god Calvin because you are a Calvinist quoting Calvinists as support for your belief in free-will.

The phrase secondary cause is not found in the Good Message of Christ, yet the enemies of Christ add free-will to their own evil message of death.




“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), but your heart’s treasure is that when Jesus Christ says God, He does not mean God, but, rather, He means man.

You preach your idiot Jesus who is an inferior orator; on the other hand, God causes me to proclaim Lord Jesus Who is the Master Orator with no equal.

You believe that your idiot Jesus is incapable of formulating a coherent sentence with the words that convey His intended meaning; on the other hand, I believe Jesus says what he means with precision, unambigatuity, and Truth (John 14:6).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

Again you ignore context and rebuttal

John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'

You posted nothing to prove your point, simply asserting your claim

In the meantime you ignored contextual exegesis

Jesus told them they must work

The Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

you ignored the commentary of your Calvinist peers

. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.



Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent[1] Pillar New Tetament commentary D.A. Carson

John_6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, —

The chief work, the greatest work which you can do. Spurgeon commentary

---

​

[1] D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.


The work of Greek exegetes

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?
29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1
1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.

rather than deal with

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe is the answer to what must i do

Not the nothing "God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

You simply asserted your view

you did the same here

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

they were to repent

What shall we do is answered by you must repent again not the nothing

"God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

All you ever do is mindlessly repeat your failed claims without ever addressing rebuttal

while slandering your oposition

 

[Kermos]

This is the word of God showing men have the ability to believe

I do not expect you will actually address the verses

John 1:6-7

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45-47

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4-11

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10-17

Acts 28:23–24



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?

You wrote "John 15:5 speaks of the believers walk not the ability to believe" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL's Self-exaltation		Exaltation of Christ
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for you can choose to believe in me apart from Me (TomL 15:5).		I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:5).

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture.

To TomL, @civic, and @Kampioen (you last two issued "Like" for TomL's post making it your post too).

Every "believe" in any verse you mentioned which represents the concept of saving faith is controlled by God because the Word of God declares “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Let's look at your quotations about "believe".

In John 1:6-7, we find that men believe in the Son whom the Father has sent for the Son is the cause of the "believe" as is Spiritually visible:

the Book of Free-willians		The Book of the Apostle John
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might free-will choose to believe because of themselves. (TomL 1:6-7).		6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the Light, that all might believe because of Him. (John 1:6-7).

so, for you TomL and civic and Kampioen, your dead in sin flesh causes you to believe instead of the Light (John 1:4) which causes Life (John 1:5 and John 1:7), yet your flesh profits nothing (John 6:63), and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture again.

With awesome oratory skills, Lord Jesus gives the answer of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) to the question He poses here:

​

Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?​

(John 5:45-47)​

​

Therefore, a successful “you believe My words” per John 5:47 would exclusively be “the work of God” (John 6:29), not your heart's treasure of “you choose in your not born of God flesh to believe My words" for Jesus' mouth in John 5:47, but truly "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

Oh, but wait, you do not believe Jesus (John 5:45-47) when He says "see" (John 3:3) as can be seen in when you wrote "John 3:3 speaks of on experiencing the kingdom of God not seeing it" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience yet he can see the Kingdom of God (TomL 3:3).		Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture again and again and again and again.

Well, there's the 10,000 character post limit, and, just going partially through your citations sequentially, your free-willian philosophy flunks in failure in the finite instead of Spiritual success in the Savior's Salvation.

Your hearts make false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE EVERLASTING GOD WHO SOVEREIGNLY LOVES HIS OWN!!!

 

[TomL]

You wrote "John 15:5 speaks of the believers walk not the ability to believe" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

Your span did not address the verses

This is the word of God showing men have the ability to believe

I do not expect you will actually address the verses

John 1:6-7

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45-47

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4-11

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10-17

Acts 28:23–24



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?

Stop spamming and address the scriptures

 

[Kermos]

Your span did not address the verses

This is the word of God showing men have the ability to believe

I do not expect you will actually address the verses

John 1:6-7

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45-47

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4-11

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10-17

Acts 28:23–24



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?

Stop spamming and address the scriptures

The Word of God is spam to you, and the proof of your adulteration of the Word of God follows! Read it again because I addressed the verses you posted.

You wrote "John 15:5 speaks of the believers walk not the ability to believe" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL's Self-exaltation		Exaltation of Christ
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for you can choose to believe in me apart from Me (TomL 15:5).		I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:5).

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture.

Every "believe" in any verse you mentioned which represents the concept of saving faith is controlled by God because the Word of God declares “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Let's look at your quotations about "believe".

In John 1:6-7, we find that men believe in the Son whom the Father has sent for the Son is the cause of the "believe" as is Spiritually visible:

the Book of Free-willians		The Book of the Apostle John
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might free-will choose to believe because of themselves. (TomL 1:6-7).		6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the Light, that all might believe because of Him. (John 1:6-7).

so, for you TomL and civic and Kampioen, your dead in sin flesh causes you to believe instead of the Light (John 1:4) which causes Life (John 1:5 and John 1:7), yet your flesh profits nothing (John 6:63), and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture again.

With awesome oratory skills, Lord Jesus gives the answer of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) to the question He poses here:

Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?
(John 5:45-47)
​

Therefore, a successful “you believe My words” per John 5:47 would exclusively be “the work of God” (John 6:29), not your heart's treasure of “you choose in your not born of God flesh to believe My words" for Jesus' mouth in John 5:47, but truly "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

Oh, but wait, you do not believe Jesus (John 5:45-47) when He says "see" (John 3:3) as can be seen in when you wrote "John 3:3 speaks of on experiencing the kingdom of God not seeing it" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience yet he can see the Kingdom of God (TomL 3:3).		Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture again and again and again and again.

Your hearts make false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GOD WHO REIGNS FOREVER!!!

 

[Kampioen]

As a self-described free-willian, you are self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10), not the image of Christ's will (Romans 8:29), and God caused me to quote the Apostle Peter specifically mentioning you self-willed people in the below. You return with your deception instead of discussing Holy Scripture as proclaimed in Truth (John 14:6) in the following.

If I'm self-willed as you say, then apparently God didn't will me? Apparently God doesn't will some things?

 

[civic]

If I'm self-willed as you say, then apparently God didn't will me? Apparently God doesn't will some things?

that's a big oops lol.

its easy like you pointed out finding the contradictions with a fatalistic god.

 

[TomL]

The Word of God is spam to you, and the proof of your adulteration of the Word of God follows! Read it again because I addressed the verses you posted.

You wrote "John 15:5 speaks of the believers walk not the ability to believe" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL's Self-exaltation		Exaltation of Christ
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for you can choose to believe in me apart from Me (TomL 15:5).		I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:5).

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture.

Every "believe" in any verse you mentioned which represents the concept of saving faith is controlled by God because the Word of God declares “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Let's look at your quotations about "believe".

In John 1:6-7, we find that men believe in the Son whom the Father has sent for the Son is the cause of the "believe" as is Spiritually visible:

the Book of Free-willians		The Book of the Apostle John
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might free-will choose to believe because of themselves. (TomL 1:6-7).		6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the Light, that all might believe because of Him. (John 1:6-7).

so, for you TomL and civic and Kampioen, your dead in sin flesh causes you to believe instead of the Light (John 1:4) which causes Life (John 1:5 and John 1:7), yet your flesh profits nothing (John 6:63), and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture again.

With awesome oratory skills, Lord Jesus gives the answer of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) to the question He poses here:

​

Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?​

(John 5:45-47)​

​

Therefore, a successful “you believe My words” per John 5:47 would exclusively be “the work of God” (John 6:29), not your heart's treasure of “you choose in your not born of God flesh to believe My words" for Jesus' mouth in John 5:47, but truly "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

Oh, but wait, you do not believe Jesus (John 5:45-47) when He says "see" (John 3:3) as can be seen in when you wrote "John 3:3 speaks of on experiencing the kingdom of God not seeing it" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience yet he can see the Kingdom of God (TomL 3:3).		Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture again and again and again and again.

Your hearts make false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GOD WHO REIGNS FOREVER!!!

No spam is your repeat comments which do not address what was posted

John 1:6-7

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45-47

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4-11

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10-17

Acts 28:23–24



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?
Now once again your failed to address what was posted and repeat yourself and so are spamming yet again

 

[Kermos]

If I'm self-willed as you say, then apparently God didn't will me? Apparently God doesn't will some things?

The Apostle Peter didn't say what you say there, you can find the Apostle's writing about self-will below.

Fundamentally, you are asking, is God Almighty? Or, asked another way, does God reign in the affairs of man? We must turn to Holy Scripture for the Truth (John 14:6)!

God declares to man his thoughts:

behold, he who forms the mountains and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought, who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth— the LORD, the God of hosts, is his name!
(Amos 4:13)
​

“I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 11:25).

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).

And the Apostle Peter declares the Power of God:

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties"
(2 Peter 2:9-10).
​

God lovingly causes God's chosen persons to will according to God's Way, and God lovingly causes God's chosen persons to work joyfully according to God's Way:

"it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure"
(Philippians 2:13).
​

Hear Apostolic testimony about God's Hand intimately controlling people's lives, even Herod, Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles, and the peoples of Israel:

"O Lord, it is You who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that is in them, who by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,
'Why did the Gentiles rage,

And the peoples devise futile things?

'The kings of the earth took their stand,

And the rulers were gathered together

Against the Lord and against His Christ.'

For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence, while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus."
(Acts 4:24-30, the Apostle Peter and the Apostle John and the Assembly of God were together when they lifted their voices to God with one accord)
​

The Apostle Paul wrote of people who exalt the creature above the Grand Creator:

"Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false"
(2 Thessalonians 2:11).
​

“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (The Word of God, John 6:29).

“he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (The Word of God, John 3:21).

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD ALMIGHTY, ALL GLORY TO EL SHADDAI!!!

 

[TomL]

No spam is your repeat comments which do not address what was posted

John 1:6-7

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45-47

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4-11

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10-17

Acts 28:23–24



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?
Now once again your failed to address what was posted and repeat yourself and so are spamming yet again

Notice how Kermos fails to address the scriptures

 

[Kampioen]

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD ALMIGHTY, ALL GLORY TO EL SHADDAI!!!

So you say man conjured free-will. So now you are saying God conjured free will? So which is it? Both? Is it synergistic?

 

[TomL]

So you say man conjured free-will. So now you are saying God conjured free will? So which is it? Both? Is it synergistic?

But kermos will never address the scriptures which speak of free will

He will simply repeat his claims over and over

 

[Kermos]

No spam is your repeat comments which do not address what was posted

John 1:6-7

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45-47

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4-11

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10-17

Acts 28:23–24



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?
Now once again your failed to address what was posted and repeat yourself and so are spamming yet again

You fail to see the Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) of post #4,924 and in the following.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you preach and teach and believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).

You wrote "John 15:5 speaks of the believers walk not the ability to believe" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL's Self-exaltation		Exaltation of Christ
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for you can choose to believe in me apart from Me (TomL 15:5).		I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:5).

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Word of God.

Moreover, you do not believe Jesus (John 5:45-47) when He says "see" (John 3:3) as can be seen in when you wrote "John 3:3 speaks of on experiencing the kingdom of God not seeing it" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience yet he can see the Kingdom of God (TomL 3:3).		Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD - THE GIVER OF LIFE AND KNOWLEDGE!!!

 

[TomL]

You fail to see the Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) of post #4,924 and in the following.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you preach and teach and believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).

You wrote "John 15:5 speaks of the believers walk not the ability to believe" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

TomL's Self-exaltation		Exaltation of Christ
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for you can choose to believe in me apart from Me (TomL 15:5).		I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:5).

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Word of God.

Moreover, you do not believe Jesus (John 5:45-47) when He says "see" (John 3:3) as can be seen in when you wrote "John 3:3 speaks of on experiencing the kingdom of God not seeing it" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience yet he can see the Kingdom of God (TomL 3:3).		Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD - THE GIVER OF LIFE AND KNOWLEDGE!!!

Still spamming the same reply while failing to address the verses before you

No spam is your repeat comments which do not address what was posted

John 1:6-7

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45-47

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4-11

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10-17

Acts 28:23–24



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?
Now once again your failed to address what was posted and repeat yourself and so are spamming yet again


g

 

[civic]

Still spamming the same reply while failing to address the verses before you

No spam is your repeat comments which do not address what was posted

John 1:6-7

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45-47

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4-11

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10-17

Acts 28:23–24



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?
Now once again your failed to address what was posted and repeat yourself and so are spamming yet again


g

yes the poster is incapable of addressing any verse that exposes his fatalism.

 

[TomL]

yes the poster is incapable of addressing any verse that exposes his fatalism.

He/she is an endless spammer

 

[civic]

He/she is an endless spammer

I have hope they will actually engage is a conversation with the passages , not counter with other passages. But that might just be wishful thinking on my part.

 

[TomL]

I have hope they will actually engage is a conversation with the passages , not counter with other passages. But that might just be wishful thinking on my part.

History seems to indicate the latter

 

[Kermos]

Nice try but another failed attempt with your EISEGESIS.

BASIC HERMENUETICS 101.

Jesus is talking only to the 12 in those verses. Apart from Me you ( the 12) can do nothing.

Don't flatter yourself Jesus was addressing His disciples not you in those passages.

next FALLACY

hope this helps !!!

So, according to your hermeneutics, civic, you live not as a branch in the Vine. I'm not going to call your interpretation a fallacy on that point.

The Vine says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:5) to all believing Christians in all time.

And, according to your hermeneutics, civic, your confused interpretation has 12 Apostles present at the time Jesus issued the blessing recorded in John 15:5, but there is record of a single person leaving the supper prior to the supper's conclusion, and that person is Judas Iscariot in the John 13:21-30 passage; therefore, at the time that Jesus spoke His loving words recorded in John 15:5, there were only 11 Apostles present. With that fallacy established as the leaven of your loaf, there is more.

And, according to your hermeneutics, civic, your heart must nullify Apostolic testimony because the Apostles specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" - see that it is all the time they were with Jesus and the Apostles as described here:

"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection." So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
(Acts 1:21-23)
​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more disciples beyond the eleven disciples who are specifically identified as part of Christ's audience at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17 - including John 15:5.

Your hermeneutics are proven to be your heart defining scripture for you instead of the Word of God defining you.

As it turns out, that which you call a fallacy is a blessing of the Word of God. Your message is riddled by your malinterpretation.

Now, back to where we left off about your heart's CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT in the upcoming post.

 

[civic]

So, according to your hermeneutics, civic, you live not as a branch in the Vine. I'm not going to call your interpretation a fallacy on that point.

The Vine says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:5) to all believing Christians in all time.

And, according to your hermeneutics, civic, your confused interpretation has 12 Apostles present at the time Jesus issued the blessing recorded in John 15:5, but there is record of a single person leaving the supper prior to the supper's conclusion, and that person is Judas Iscariot in the John 13:21-30 passage; therefore, at the time that Jesus spoke His loving words recorded in John 15:5, there were only 11 Apostles present. With that fallacy established as the leaven of your loaf, there is more.

And, according to your hermeneutics, civic, your heart must nullify Apostolic testimony because the Apostles specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" - see that it is all the time they were with Jesus and the Apostles as described here:

​

"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection." So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.​

(Acts 1:21-23)​

​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more disciples beyond the eleven disciples who are specifically identified as part of Christ's audience at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17 - including John 15:5.

Your hermeneutics are proven to be your heart defining scripture for you instead of the Word of God defining you.

As it turns out, that which you call a fallacy is a blessing of the Word of God. Your message is riddled by your malinterpretation.

Now, back to where we left off about your heart's CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT in the upcoming post.

Try sticking with the content for once instead of jumping al around everywhere. We are discussing John 15

These personal pronouns are for the disciples not for you. You were not with Jesus from the beginning like Jesus declared about the 11 present with Him.

Context is King and you do not follow the Kings teaching below. He will guide them, not you into all truth. They wrote scripture ( all truth ) not you.

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit;apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

The World Hates the Disciples​

18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

The Work of the Holy Spirit​

26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

 

[TomL]

So, according to your hermeneutics, civic, you live not as a branch in the Vine. I'm not going to call your interpretation a fallacy on that point.

The Vine says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:5) to all believing Christians in all time.

And, according to your hermeneutics, civic, your confused interpretation has 12 Apostles present at the time Jesus issued the blessing recorded in John 15:5, but there is record of a single person leaving the supper prior to the supper's conclusion, and that person is Judas Iscariot in the John 13:21-30 passage; therefore, at the time that Jesus spoke His loving words recorded in John 15:5, there were only 11 Apostles present. With that fallacy established as the leaven of your loaf, there is more.

And, according to your hermeneutics, civic, your heart must nullify Apostolic testimony because the Apostles specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" - see that it is all the time they were with Jesus and the Apostles as described here:

​

"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection." So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.​

(Acts 1:21-23)​

​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more disciples beyond the eleven disciples who are specifically identified as part of Christ's audience at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17 - including John 15:5.

Your hermeneutics are proven to be your heart defining scripture for you instead of the Word of God defining you.

As it turns out, that which you call a fallacy is a blessing of the Word of God. Your message is riddled by your malinterpretation.

Now, back to where we left off about your heart's CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT in the upcoming post.

Newsflash Acts 1:21 does not mean Matthias was with them 24/7

You read too much into the verse

The point is they saw the acts of Jesus and were witnesses to the resurrection