civic
Active Member
There is no membership in the Trinity. No one can join the Godhead.
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
- Start date
I shared this in another post -- somewhat addressing how Jesus can be human and divine in the Godhead even in his inception.
"The other sense here is that Paul has noted that the spirit of man is dead without Christ. In this sense, we can speculate [about the inception with divinity at birth] that Jesus's spirit is distinctly alive with that essence of God -- inseparable in one sense but also distinct in another sense from the Father. The aspect of humanity that normal is dead actually is the one identified as Logos. (John 1:1)"
Of course they are One. They can interact as separate entities but without us having a grasp how that works.
Peterlag
Active Member
The Hebrew and Greek words (elohim, theos) are flexible titles meaning mighty one, ruler, judge, exalted one, representative of God.
Moses...
“I have made thee a god to Pharaoh.” (Ex 7:1)
Angels...
“Worship him, all ye gods.” (Ps 97:7; Heb 1:6)
Human judges...
“I said, Ye are gods.” (Ps 82:6)
If angels, Moses, and human rulers can be called “god” without being the Father, then Jesus being called “God” also does not make Him the Father or the only true God.
John 17:3...
“Father… thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
Jesus separates Himself from the “only true God”, identifies the Father alone as that God, and calls Himself the one sent. If Jesus is the “only true God,” then His statement becomes nonsense.
In ancient Jewish thought, a representative of God could be called “god” because he carries God’s authority. A king’s ambassador can be spoken of as “the king” when acting on his behalf.
Jesus is the image of God (2 Cor 4:4), the exact representation of God (Heb 1:3), and the one through whom God works (John 5:30; 14:10).
So calling Jesus “God” means He carries divine authority, He represents the Father perfectly, and He acts as God’s agent, but it does not mean He is the Father, He is the only true God, or He is equal to the Father.
Moses...
“I have made thee a god to Pharaoh.” (Ex 7:1)
Angels...
“Worship him, all ye gods.” (Ps 97:7; Heb 1:6)
Human judges...
“I said, Ye are gods.” (Ps 82:6)
If angels, Moses, and human rulers can be called “god” without being the Father, then Jesus being called “God” also does not make Him the Father or the only true God.
John 17:3...
“Father… thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
Jesus separates Himself from the “only true God”, identifies the Father alone as that God, and calls Himself the one sent. If Jesus is the “only true God,” then His statement becomes nonsense.
In ancient Jewish thought, a representative of God could be called “god” because he carries God’s authority. A king’s ambassador can be spoken of as “the king” when acting on his behalf.
Jesus is the image of God (2 Cor 4:4), the exact representation of God (Heb 1:3), and the one through whom God works (John 5:30; 14:10).
So calling Jesus “God” means He carries divine authority, He represents the Father perfectly, and He acts as God’s agent, but it does not mean He is the Father, He is the only true God, or He is equal to the Father.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
All have been answered.
Not doing it again.
Use the search feature and look.
"Jesus pre-existed his birth"
"Jesus is the Word"
These have been explained ad nauseum and you do not understand.
If you could even write down what has actually been said instead of twisting verses together I might answer,
but you dont. You wont. And that is fine, it is your choice.
I will leave you with one thought.
THERE NEVER WAS A TIME WHEN GOD WAS ALONE.
Figure it out and get back to me.
Peterlag
Active Member
I thought of you when I posted this in the morning because I believe you once mentioned John 14...
There seems to be much confusion concerning the Comforter...
The spirit that all Christians have was first called the comforter by Jesus. It helps us if we are plugged into walking by the spirit.
John 14:16-17
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Almost every English version translates John 14:17 similarly to “even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him.” Translators capitalize “Spirit” and use “he” and “him” because of their theology. The Greek word “spirit” is neuter and the text could also be translated as “the spirit of truth” and paired with “which” and “it.” The New American Bible reads “which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it."
The confusion is dominantly within the unitarian belief system since they do not know the Spirit.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I may have but has nothing to do with THERE NEVER WAS A TIME WHEN GOD WAS ALONE.
@Peterlag @Runningman
Still waiting on you and @Runningman to answer.
Waiting on a response from either of you two.
@FreeInChrist
The Solitariness of God
by Arthur W. Pink
The title of this article is perhaps not sufficiently explicit to indicate its theme. This is partly due to the fact that so few today are accustomed to meditate upon the personal perfections of God. Comparatively few of those who occasionally read the Bible are aware of the awe-inspiring and worship provoking grandeur of the Divine character. That God is great in wisdom, wondrous in power, yet full of mercy, is assumed by many to be almost common knowledge; but, to entertain anything approaching an adequate conception of His being, His nature, His attributes, as these are revealed in Holy Scripture, is something which very, very few people in these degenerate times have attained unto. God is solitary in His excellency. "Who is like unto Thee, O Lord, among the gods? who is like Thee, glorious is holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?" (Exo 15:11).
"In the beginning, God" (Gen 1:1). There was a time, if "time" it could be called, when God, in the unity of His nature (though subsisting equally in three Divine Persons), dwelt all alone. "In the beginning, God." There was no heaven, where His glory is now particularly manifested. There was no earth to engage His attention. There were no angels to hymn His praises; no universe to be upheld by the word of His power. There was nothing, no one, but God; and that, not for a day, a year, or an age, but "from everlasting." During a past eternity, God was alone: self-contained, self-sufficient, self-satisfied; in need of nothing. Had a universe, had angels, had human beings been necessary to Him in any way, they also had been called into existence from all eternity. The creating of them when He did, added nothing to God essentially. He changes not (Mal 3:6), therefore His essential glory can be neither augmented nor diminished.
God was under no constraint, no obligation, no necessity to create. That He chose to do so was purely a sovereign act on His part, caused by nothing outside Himself, determined by nothing but His own mere good pleasure; for He "worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph 1:11). That He did create was simply for His manifestative glory. Do some of our readers imagine that we have gone beyond what Scripture warrants? Then our appeal shall be to the Law and the Testimony:
"Stand up and bless the Lord your God for ever and ever: and blessed be Thy glorious name, which is exalted above all blessing and praise" (Neh 9:5). God is no gainer even from our worship. He was in no need of that external glory of His grace which arises from His redeemed, for He is glorious enough in Himself without that. What was it that moved Him to predestinate His elect to the praise of the glory of His grace? It was, as Eph. 1:5 tells us, "according to the good pleasure of His will."
We are well aware that the high ground we are here treading is new and strange to almost all of our readers; for that reason it is well to move slowly. Let our appeal again be to the Scriptures. At the end of Romans 11, where the Apostle brings to a close his long argument on salvation by pure and sovereign grace, he asks, "For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been His counsellor? Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed to him again?" (vv. 34-35). The force of this is, it is impossible to bring the Almighty under obligations to the creature; God gains nothing from us. "If thou be righteous, what givest thou Him? Or what receiveth He of thine hand? Thy wickedness may hurt a man as thou art; and thy righteousness may profit the son of man" (Job 35:7-8), but it certainly cannot affect God, who is all-blessed in Himself "When ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants" (Luke 17:10) Your obedience has profited God nothing.
Nay, we go further; our Lord Jesus Christ added nothing to God in His essential being and glory, either by what He did or suffered. True, blessedly and gloriously true, He manifested the glory of God to us, but He added nought to God. He Himself expressly declares so, and there is no appeal from His words: "My goodness extendeth not to Thee" (Psa 16:2). The whole of that Psalm is a Psalm of Christ. Christ's goodness or righteousness reached unto His saints in the earth (Psa 16:3), but God was high above and beyond it all, God only is "the Blessed One" (Mark 14:61).
It is perfectly true that God is both honored and dishonored by men; not in His essential being, but in His official character. It is equally true that God has been "glorified" by creation, by providence, and by redemption. This we do not and dare not dispute for a moment. But all of this has to do with His manifestative glory and the recognition of it by us. Yet had God so pleased He might have continued alone for all eternity, without making known His glory unto creatures. Whether He should do so or not was determined solely by His own will. He was perfectly blessed in Himself before the first creature was called into being. And what are all the creatures of His hands unto Him even now? Let Scripture again make answer: "Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, He taketh up the isles as a very little thing. And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. All nations before Him are as nothing; and they are counted to Him less than nothing, and vanity. To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto Him?" (Isa 40:15-18). That is the God of Scripture; alas, He is still "the unknown God" (Acts 17:23) to the heedless multitudes. "It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: that bringeth the princes to nothing; He maketh the judges of the earth as vanity" (Isa 40:22-23). How vastly different is the God of Scripture from the "god" of the average pulpit!
Nor is the testimony of the New Testament any different from that of the Old: how could it be, seeing that both have one and the same Author! There too we read, "Which in His times He shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords: Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting, Amen" (I Tim 6:15-16). Such an One is to be revered, worshipped, adored. He is solitary in His majesty, unique in His excellency, peerless in His perfections. He sustains all, but is Himself independent of all. He gives to all, but is enriched by none.
Such a God cannot be found out by searching. He can be known only as He is revealed to the heart by the Holy Spirit through the Word. It is true that creation demonstrates a Creator so plainly that men are "without excuse"; yet, we still have to say with Job, "Lo, these are parts of His ways: but how little a portion is heard of Him? but the thunder of His power who can understand?" (26:14). The so-called argument from design by well-meaning "Apologists" has, we believe, done much more harm than good, for it has attempted to bring down the great God to the level of finite comprehension, and thereby has lost sight of His solitary excellence.
Analogy has been drawn between a savage finding a watch upon the sands, and from a close examination of it he infers a watch-maker. So far so good. But attempt to go further: suppose that savage sits down on the sand and endeavors to form to himself a conception of this watch-maker, his personal affections and manners; his disposition, acquirements, and moral character-all that goes to make up a personality; could he ever think or reason out a real man - the man who made the watch, so that he could say, "I am acquainted with him"? It seems trifling to ask such questions, but is the eternal and infinite God so much more within the grasp of human reason? No, indeed. The God of Scripture can only be known by those to whom He makes Himself known.
Nor is God known by the intellect. "God is Spirit" (John 4:24), and therefore can only be known spiritually. But fallen man is not spiritual; he is carnal. He is dead to all that is spiritual. Unless he is born again, supernaturally brought from death unto life, miraculously translated out of darkness into light, he cannot even see the things of God (John 3:3), still less apprehend them (I Cor 2:14). The Holy Spirit has to shine in our hearts (not intellects) in order to give us "the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (II Cor 4:6). And even that spiritual knowledge is but fragmentary. The regenerated soul has to grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus (II Peter 3:18).
The principal prayer and aim of Christians should be that we "walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God" (Col. 1:10)
(While I may disagree with a point or so, overall this is a very good article. ~RB)
Sister, you need to rethink this again, for this statement is not so.
The Solitariness of God
by Arthur W. Pink
The title of this article is perhaps not sufficiently explicit to indicate its theme. This is partly due to the fact that so few today are accustomed to meditate upon the personal perfections of God. Comparatively few of those who occasionally read the Bible are aware of the awe-inspiring and worship provoking grandeur of the Divine character. That God is great in wisdom, wondrous in power, yet full of mercy, is assumed by many to be almost common knowledge; but, to entertain anything approaching an adequate conception of His being, His nature, His attributes, as these are revealed in Holy Scripture, is something which very, very few people in these degenerate times have attained unto. God is solitary in His excellency. "Who is like unto Thee, O Lord, among the gods? who is like Thee, glorious is holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?" (Exo 15:11).
"In the beginning, God" (Gen 1:1). There was a time, if "time" it could be called, when God, in the unity of His nature (though subsisting equally in three Divine Persons), dwelt all alone. "In the beginning, God." There was no heaven, where His glory is now particularly manifested. There was no earth to engage His attention. There were no angels to hymn His praises; no universe to be upheld by the word of His power. There was nothing, no one, but God; and that, not for a day, a year, or an age, but "from everlasting." During a past eternity, God was alone: self-contained, self-sufficient, self-satisfied; in need of nothing. Had a universe, had angels, had human beings been necessary to Him in any way, they also had been called into existence from all eternity. The creating of them when He did, added nothing to God essentially. He changes not (Mal 3:6), therefore His essential glory can be neither augmented nor diminished.
God was under no constraint, no obligation, no necessity to create. That He chose to do so was purely a sovereign act on His part, caused by nothing outside Himself, determined by nothing but His own mere good pleasure; for He "worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph 1:11). That He did create was simply for His manifestative glory. Do some of our readers imagine that we have gone beyond what Scripture warrants? Then our appeal shall be to the Law and the Testimony:
"Stand up and bless the Lord your God for ever and ever: and blessed be Thy glorious name, which is exalted above all blessing and praise" (Neh 9:5). God is no gainer even from our worship. He was in no need of that external glory of His grace which arises from His redeemed, for He is glorious enough in Himself without that. What was it that moved Him to predestinate His elect to the praise of the glory of His grace? It was, as Eph. 1:5 tells us, "according to the good pleasure of His will."
We are well aware that the high ground we are here treading is new and strange to almost all of our readers; for that reason it is well to move slowly. Let our appeal again be to the Scriptures. At the end of Romans 11, where the Apostle brings to a close his long argument on salvation by pure and sovereign grace, he asks, "For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been His counsellor? Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed to him again?" (vv. 34-35). The force of this is, it is impossible to bring the Almighty under obligations to the creature; God gains nothing from us. "If thou be righteous, what givest thou Him? Or what receiveth He of thine hand? Thy wickedness may hurt a man as thou art; and thy righteousness may profit the son of man" (Job 35:7-8), but it certainly cannot affect God, who is all-blessed in Himself "When ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants" (Luke 17:10) Your obedience has profited God nothing.
Nay, we go further; our Lord Jesus Christ added nothing to God in His essential being and glory, either by what He did or suffered. True, blessedly and gloriously true, He manifested the glory of God to us, but He added nought to God. He Himself expressly declares so, and there is no appeal from His words: "My goodness extendeth not to Thee" (Psa 16:2). The whole of that Psalm is a Psalm of Christ. Christ's goodness or righteousness reached unto His saints in the earth (Psa 16:3), but God was high above and beyond it all, God only is "the Blessed One" (Mark 14:61).
It is perfectly true that God is both honored and dishonored by men; not in His essential being, but in His official character. It is equally true that God has been "glorified" by creation, by providence, and by redemption. This we do not and dare not dispute for a moment. But all of this has to do with His manifestative glory and the recognition of it by us. Yet had God so pleased He might have continued alone for all eternity, without making known His glory unto creatures. Whether He should do so or not was determined solely by His own will. He was perfectly blessed in Himself before the first creature was called into being. And what are all the creatures of His hands unto Him even now? Let Scripture again make answer: "Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, He taketh up the isles as a very little thing. And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. All nations before Him are as nothing; and they are counted to Him less than nothing, and vanity. To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto Him?" (Isa 40:15-18). That is the God of Scripture; alas, He is still "the unknown God" (Acts 17:23) to the heedless multitudes. "It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: that bringeth the princes to nothing; He maketh the judges of the earth as vanity" (Isa 40:22-23). How vastly different is the God of Scripture from the "god" of the average pulpit!
Nor is the testimony of the New Testament any different from that of the Old: how could it be, seeing that both have one and the same Author! There too we read, "Which in His times He shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords: Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting, Amen" (I Tim 6:15-16). Such an One is to be revered, worshipped, adored. He is solitary in His majesty, unique in His excellency, peerless in His perfections. He sustains all, but is Himself independent of all. He gives to all, but is enriched by none.
Such a God cannot be found out by searching. He can be known only as He is revealed to the heart by the Holy Spirit through the Word. It is true that creation demonstrates a Creator so plainly that men are "without excuse"; yet, we still have to say with Job, "Lo, these are parts of His ways: but how little a portion is heard of Him? but the thunder of His power who can understand?" (26:14). The so-called argument from design by well-meaning "Apologists" has, we believe, done much more harm than good, for it has attempted to bring down the great God to the level of finite comprehension, and thereby has lost sight of His solitary excellence.
Analogy has been drawn between a savage finding a watch upon the sands, and from a close examination of it he infers a watch-maker. So far so good. But attempt to go further: suppose that savage sits down on the sand and endeavors to form to himself a conception of this watch-maker, his personal affections and manners; his disposition, acquirements, and moral character-all that goes to make up a personality; could he ever think or reason out a real man - the man who made the watch, so that he could say, "I am acquainted with him"? It seems trifling to ask such questions, but is the eternal and infinite God so much more within the grasp of human reason? No, indeed. The God of Scripture can only be known by those to whom He makes Himself known.
Nor is God known by the intellect. "God is Spirit" (John 4:24), and therefore can only be known spiritually. But fallen man is not spiritual; he is carnal. He is dead to all that is spiritual. Unless he is born again, supernaturally brought from death unto life, miraculously translated out of darkness into light, he cannot even see the things of God (John 3:3), still less apprehend them (I Cor 2:14). The Holy Spirit has to shine in our hearts (not intellects) in order to give us "the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (II Cor 4:6). And even that spiritual knowledge is but fragmentary. The regenerated soul has to grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus (II Peter 3:18).
The principal prayer and aim of Christians should be that we "walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God" (Col. 1:10)
(While I may disagree with a point or so, overall this is a very good article. ~RB)
dwight92070
Active Member
The concept of the Trinity is thoughout the Bible, even though the word itself is not there. One must be blind not to see it.
There are three"him" in John 14:17, bearing Strong#G846, in Greek "αὐτός autos," one definition of Bible lexicon is - himself and etc. Note, the lowest quoted verse is from the Byzantine text type manuscripts and it is not a translation. It is in Greek.
Yes, the word "spirit" in Greek "πνεῦμα pneuma" as in lower case "s", bears Strong#G4151, defined by Greek-English Lexicon based on Semantic Domain as - (a title for the third person of the Trinity, literally 'spirit') - 'Spirit, Spirit of God, Holy Spirit.'
Thus, proven by Bible lexicon that the "spirit" is the third person of the Trinity, He is the Spirit of God also the Holy Spirit.
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:17 Even theG3588 SpiritG4151 of truth;G225 whomG3739 theG3588 worldG2889 cannotG1410 G3756 receive,G2983 becauseG3754 it seethG2334 himG846 not,G3756 neitherG3761 knowethG1097 him:G846 butG1161 yeG5210 knowG1097 him;G846 forG3754 he dwellethG3306 withG3844 you,G5213 andG2532 shall beG2071 inG1722 you.G5213
(NT Greek Byzantine+)John 14:17 τοG3588 T-ASN πνευμαG4151 N-ASN τηςG3588 T-GSF αληθειαςG225 N-GSF οG3739 R-ASN οG3588 T-NSM κοσμοςG2889 N-NSM ουG3756 PRT-N δυναταιG1410 V-PNI-3S λαβεινG2983 V-2AAN οτιG3754 CONJ ουG3756 PRT-N θεωρειG2334 V-PAI-3S αυτοG846 P-ASN ουδεG3761 CONJ-N γινωσκειG1097 V-PAI-3S αυτοG846 P-ASN υμειςG4771 P-2NP δεG1161 CONJ γινωσκετεG1097 V-PAI-2P αυτοG846 P-ASN οτιG3754 CONJ παρG3844 PREP υμινG4771 P-2DP μενειG3306 V-PAI-3S καιG2532 CONJ ενG1722 PREP υμινG4771 P-2DP εσταιG1510 V-FDI-3S
G846
αὐτός autos
Thayer Definition:
1) himself, herself, themselves, itself
2) he, she, it
3) the same
G4151
πνεῦμα pneuma
(a title for the third person of the Trinity, literally 'spirit') - 'Spirit, Spirit of God, Holy Spirit.'
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
FreeInChrist
Active Member
My statement is very true.
You posted your article and I can find a lot of fault through it....
Here is a brief one for you to consider... Color additions are nim=ne so you do bot miss them
No — there never was a time when God was alone.
The Bible is crystal-clear on this:
| Truth | Verse | What It Means |
|---|---|---|
| The Son was eternally with the Father | John 1:1–2 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.” | Jesus (the Word) has always existed in personal relationship with the Father. |
| The Spirit was there from the very start | Genesis 1:2 “The Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.” | The Holy Spirit is eternal too. |
| Jesus had glory with the Father before creation | John 17:5 “Father, glorify me… with the glory I had with you before the world began.” | No point in eternity when the Son was not there. |
| The Father loves the Son eternally | John 17:24 “You loved me before the foundation of the world.” | Perfect love and fellowship have always existed inside the Godhead. |
- Before anything was created → Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were already in perfect, joyful, loving relationship.
- There never was a moment (because “moments” didn’t exist yet) when God was solitary or lonely.
Bottom line: God has never been alone — the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have enjoyed perfect love and fellowship from all eternity.
That’s one of the most beautiful truths in Scripture.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You believe you do.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Names are good. Hypocrite comes to mind. Jesus used it 20 times in the NT.
ὑποκριτής is contrasted against χαρακτήρ
Do you know what ὑποκριτής / hypocrite means? It comes from pretending to be something you're actually not. Fits you perfectly.
You pretend to be just like Jesus and when we compare you to Jesus, we can tell you have not sincerity of χαρακτήρ
Peterlag
Active Member
I never said nor do I teach that anyone should be like Jesus. I know the churches teach this and probably you do to. I do not. I walk in the spirit of Christ and consider myself to be one of the most knowledgeable guys on the planet concerning the subject of the resurrected Christ Jesus.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You know very little about Jesus Christ.
So how can you actually claim to know someone that you don't follow?
How does that work exactly. Faith in someone is a requirement for knowing and learning of them.
You know very little about relationships. I know my wife better than you know her. I know my son better than you know him. I know my friends better than you know them.
You can't really know Jesus Christ without following Him. The fact you don't know this makes what you say about being the "most knowledgeable person on the planet about Jesus Christ." extradionarily delusional.
So who do you think knew Jesus better... Peter or John the Beloved?
I know much more about this than you do. I have a public video/audio debate with you over this and we can go into great detail. Don't hide.
Runningman
Active Member
I think at this point it would be best to use another chart to show a side-by-side comparison of what Trinitarians follow, compared to what Unitarians follow, compared to what Jesus said to follow. That way it isn't just your accusations and false testimony, but rather Scripture getting the last word, as it rightly should be for Christians, even alleged ones.
I used Chat GPT to produce this chart. This very clearly shows that Biblical Unitarians accurately follow the teachings of Jesus and that trinitarians like yourself have a different Jesus, a different god, and different religion than Christians.
cc: @Peterlag
| Topic | What Trinitarians Say Jesus Taught | What Unitarians Say Jesus Taught | What Jesus Said His Teachings Are (Biblical Record) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Identity of God | God is a Trinity of Father, Son, Spirit; Jesus is God the Son. | The Father alone is God; Jesus is His Son and Messiah. | “The Father… is the only true God.” (John 17:3) |
| Jesus’ Own Identity | Jesus is fully God, equal with the Father. | Jesus is God’s human Son, chosen and anointed. | “You are seeking to kill me, a man who told you the truth that I heard from God.” (John 8:40) |
| Jesus’ Source of Teaching | Jesus taught as God Himself. | Jesus taught what God gave Him to teach. | “My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me.” (John 7:16) |
| Authority | Jesus has inherent divine authority as God. | Jesus’ authority is given to Him by the Father. | “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” (Matt 28:18) |
| Relationship to the Father | Jesus is equal in essence with the Father. | Jesus is subordinate to the Father. | “The Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28) |
| Worship | Jesus receives worship as God. | Worship is to the Father; honor is shown to the Son as Messiah. | “You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve.” (Matt 4:10) |
| Role as Messiah | Being Messiah includes being God incarnate. | Being Messiah means being the human king anointed by God. | “God has sent me.” (John 8:42); “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matt 15:24) |
| Knowledge | Jesus is omniscient as God but limited in His humanity. | Jesus is not omniscient; he depends on the Father. | “Of that day and hour no one knows… nor the Son, but the Father only.” (Mark 13:32) |
| Life/Immortality | As God, Jesus inherently possesses life. | Jesus receives life from the Father. | “The Father has granted the Son to have life in himself.” (John 5:26) |
| Mission | Came to die as God to atone for sin with infinite merit. | Came as God’s anointed man to proclaim God’s kingdom and offer His life. | “I must preach the kingdom of God, that is why I was sent.” (Luke 4:43) |
| Whom Jesus Calls ‘God’ | Jesus calls Himself God. | Jesus calls the Father His God. | “I ascend to my Father and your Father, my God and your God.” (John 20:17) |
| Salvation Message | Believe Jesus is God the Son to be saved. | Believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. | “This is written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life.” (John 20:31) |
| Greatest Commandment | Implies worship of the Triune God. | Worship Yahweh, the Father alone. | “The LORD our God, the LORD is one… You shall love the LORD your God.” (Mark 12:29–30) |
The problem is the selection of verses usually do not covey anything near what you claim they say. Take the Greatest Commandment. This perfectly allows Jesus as the One incarnated per John 1 to be worshiped. Plus this chart omits the passages speaking of his preexistence before the world was made. So this chart is merely a clever way of lying about Jesus.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Are you even paying attention? @Peterlag said to not follow Jesus or be like Jesus.
Pay attention. You're not saying the same things. So don't pretend all "Unitarians" are just a like. You're not.
I don't even know why you call yourself a Christian. Christian means to be "Christ like". You should embrace Islam or Judaism if you're going reject Messiah. You more closely resemble a Muslim or a Christ rejecting Jew than a follower of Christ.
You really have no idea what you're doing. ChatGPT can't help you. ChatGPT is far too agreeable. They train it to be that way. All you have to do is disagree with it a few times and it will start doing everything you say.
After all, it is SELLING you its services. You can be bought. I can't be bought. You can't buy me. I treasure Christ more than I treasure anything. He is my Master. I am bound to Him.
You obvious are not.
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