Your Views on The Trinity

[Capbook]

In this life and in speaking and writing we do not say what a thing is not. We say what a thing is. Jesus is the son of God. Nobody expects someone to say what he is not. To say that Jesus is not God would be insane. I am a man. I can say I'm a man. I should not have to say I'm not a jelly fish, and I'm not a horse, and I'm not a cat, and I'm not a dog... etc. etc.

Yes, to say "Jesus is not God" unsupported, you are correct, would be insane.
Because Jesus is God, another proof why Jesus is God?
Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain define "Godhead" bears Strong#2320, in Greek "θεότης theotēs" means as - in the nature or state of being God, deity, divine nature, divine being.
Again, I presented evidence, Arians just always in opinion.

Col 2:9 ForG3754 inG1722 himG846 dwellethG2730 allG3956 theG3588 fulnessG4138 of theG3588 GodheadG2320 bodily.G4985

NT:2320
θεότης theotēs
the nature or state of being God - 'deity, divine nature, divine being.
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

 

[Peterlag]

Yes, to say "Jesus is not God" unsupported, you are correct, would be insane.
Because Jesus is God, another proof why Jesus is God?
Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain define "Godhead" bears Strong#2320, in Greek "θεότης theotēs" means as - in the nature or state of being God, deity, divine nature, divine being.
Again, I presented evidence, Arians just always in opinion.

Col 2:9 ForG3754 inG1722 himG846 dwellethG2730 allG3956 theG3588 fulnessG4138 of theG3588 GodheadG2320 bodily.G4985

NT:2320
θεότης theotēs
the nature or state of being God - 'deity, divine nature, divine being.
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

I can say I'm a man. I should not have to say I'm not a horse and the fact that I don't introduce myself as not a horse does not mean I'm a horse otherwise I would have mentioned it.

 

[Peterlag]

You keep confessing Jesus is the son of someone. Oh right. You say he is the Son of God born of the essence of his Father as is always the case. Even unitarians cannot avoid pointing out Jesus as God incarnate.
Son of Man is also an indication of the deity of Christ. Otherwise, "of man" would be totally unnecessary. But unitarians cannot flesh those details out since they are focused on three things: deny, deny, deny.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You guys may not be sharp enough for me to converse with. There's another guy on this site that wants to know why the Bible does not say Jesus is not God. Would there be a reason for that or for me to say I'm not a cat?

 

[Peterlag]

Then where in the Bible that says "Jesus is not God?" As you've seen He is the only begotten God.
You have to prove your pre-conceived belief.
Yes, we believe that Jesus was in human form.
We also believe that there's one God.
The burden of proof falls to the Arians to prove from the Bible that says "Jesus is not God."

Where on my birth certificate does it say I'm not a fish? Does that mean that one could now say that I'm a fish because it does not say that I am not? You have become unable to have an intelligent conversation with.

 

[mikesw]

I have no idea what you're talking about. You guys may not be sharp enough for me to converse with. There's another guy on this site that wants to know why the Bible does not say Jesus is not God. Would there be a reason for that or for me to say I'm not a cat?

If you understood what was shared, that would be a good sign that you know Christ.
I guess you have an exalted sense of yourself since unitarians think they can be equal with Christ. The terms used for Jesus reflect him as both human and God. That still stands far above your ability to reason with scripture.

 

[Red Baker]

View attachment 2555

1)

Revelation 22:3​

“And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:”

Revelation 22:17​

“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”

One God manifest as three to us. God, the Lamb, and the Spirit. All three share the "same" throne as ONE God.

2)

Matthew 28:19​

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

They equally share in the glory of our salvation from sin and condemnation, since they all three play a part in this great Salvation equally.

3)

John 1:1​

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”John 1:14
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

John 1:14​

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

John 4:24​

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

1st Timothy 3:16​

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

4)

2nd Corinthians 13:14​

“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

5)

Matthew 16:19​

“And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Matthew 18:18​

“Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

John 20:23​

“Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.”

As a child of God I say unto you, that if you reject Jesus' deity as the God of Genesis 1:1, you shall die in your sin.

 

[Capbook]

I can say I'm a man. I should not have to say I'm not a horse and the fact that I don't introduce myself as not a horse does not mean I'm a horse otherwise I would have mentioned it.

Well, we are not debating about you, we are discussing about Jesus as God, in the nature of being God, a divine being, in divine nature etc., proven by Bible verses, oldest manuscripts and Bible lexicons.

 

[Capbook]

Where on my birth certificate does it say I'm not a fish? Does that mean that one could now say that I'm a fish because it does not say that I am not? You have become unable to have an intelligent conversation with.

Again, we are not talking about you, I am proving that Jesus is God whom you negate. This is a debate forum, you have to prove why you oppose by presenting objective evidence. Why resort to ad hominem?

 

[Peterlag]

Arguments produced by Trinitarians...​

"Jesus is a God-Man"
"Jesus is 100% man and 100% God"
"Jesus resurrected himself"
"Jesus pre-existed his birth"
"Jesus is the Word"
"God incarnated"

Yet the Bible doesn't say any of those things. There is no example of anyone saying Jesus is a God-Man, no examples of Jesus resurrecting himself or anyone saying he did, no examples of him pre-existing in the Old Testament either saying or doing anything. He was never called the Word, and the Bible never says Jesus incarnated.

Everything the trinitarian says begs the question: Why does the Bible never say what trinitarians say?

Can any one answer one or more of these questions:

Where in the Bible does anyone ever define God as three persons in one God?

Trinitarians claim the Trinity is central to Christianity. Why is it that there is not one example of it being taught to anyone in Acts or elsewhere in the New or Old Testament?

Why do the inspired writers everywhere speak of God like a single person, i,e,. He, Him, His, but never as a they or them?

Why does terminology, or something similar, that says "Jesus is 100 percent God and 100 percent man" never appear in the Bible?

Why did no one say Jesus resurrected himself after he died?

If Jesus pre-existed as either the Word, or God, or a member of the trinity, why does the Bible never say that and why are there no examples of such in the Old Testament?

Why did the Apostles always call Jesus "the man" (1 Timothy 2:5) "the Son of Man" or "the Son of God" but never "God the Son?"

If the early church really did believe in a Trinity, then why were the early centuries filled with disputes regarding who Jesus was with the result not being codified into the Catholic church until the mid-to-late 4th century?

Why did they not agree the Holy Spirit is a 3rd member of the trinity until the late 4th century?

Why do Trinitarians rely heavily on extra-biblical words/phrases like trinity, hypostatic union, God-man, incarnate, instead of just using the words the Bible uses?

cc: @Runningman

 

[praise_yeshua]

sure. your father and mother gave you birth. so you are of the same hypostasis as them.
Jesus is of his Father and mother and has the combined hypostases -- bith divinity and humanity.
Theology works well as long as people do not claim to be of the same hypostasis as Jesus

Really crazy. They treat "gave" as being transactional.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I can say I'm a man. I should not have to say I'm not a horse and the fact that I don't introduce myself as not a horse does not mean I'm a horse otherwise I would have mentioned it.

You are a part of a horse alright. Every horse has one.

That description is valid for you. Not for Jesus. This oversimplification you present is always self defeating.

Reminder. If you're going to talk bad about Jesus, I'm going to point out every thing that is bad about you/humanity.

When that comparison is done, we will know you're nothing like Jesus. Your argument will pitifully fail. You and your "ilk" are always poor excuses for good men. Always. Good men are a mixture of humanity and good things that only come directly from above. That is where Jesus comes into this "picture".

I know you're going to claim that you have nothing to do with this but you do. You're the one speaking. You're the one coercing. You are the one seeking power over men while Jesus Christ lets you have your way.

You are the Master of no one. You might be the Master of @Runningman or some of these other Unitarians you're bring here but you're not really a master in the context of Eternal things. Your ways will end soon enough with the rest of humanity. You're body is going to turn to ashes and dust. Your life is but a vapor. Jesus Christ is Eternal and has always been ETERNAL. Always.

You..... well. Keep talking and proving what you are to everyone. I know who I'll exalt and worship.

As I've told your friend. The Father isn't going to be angry because I worship His one and only son. Jesus Christ. The idea of that claim is offensive to any common sense. It offends me greatly.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Again, we are not talking about you, I am proving that Jesus is God whom you negate. This is a debate forum, you have to prove why you oppose by presenting objective evidence. Why resort to ad hominem?

There is no such thing as a "ad hominem". Man is always relative. Man judges by his own experience. Wise men do not.

It is always about the individual. We must compare the foolishness of mankind against the Majesty of Jesus Christ.

John said "We beheld His Glory".......

Their goal is to diminish that Glory. Debate "fallacies" are very imperfect. Often all they do is limit the Truth.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I have no idea what you're talking about. You guys may not be sharp enough for me to converse with. There's another guy on this site that wants to know why the Bible does not say Jesus is not God. Would there be a reason for that or for me to say I'm not a cat?

You're not very sharp at all. You don't know yourself.

If you don't know yourself, you can't compare yourself against God to understand what you need to change.

You MUST know you. There is no context where you can't KNOW YOU.

You only get this through experience. God doesn't gift humanity that knowledge from the beginning of their lives. Man must learn himself.

Once a man learns himself, he will appreciate his inabilities to the point of looking external to himself for answers. The only Person that has answers here is the Person of Jesus Christ that you're rejecting.

"not very sharp"........

 

[Runningman]

Arguments produced by Trinitarians...​

"Jesus is a God-Man"
"Jesus is 100% man and 100% God"
"Jesus resurrected himself"
"Jesus pre-existed his birth"
"Jesus is the Word"
"God incarnated"

Yet the Bible doesn't say any of those things. There is no example of anyone saying Jesus is a God-Man, no examples of Jesus resurrecting himself or anyone saying he did, no examples of him pre-existing in the Old Testament either saying or doing anything. He was never called the Word, and the Bible never says Jesus incarnated.

Everything the trinitarian says begs the question: Why does the Bible never say what trinitarians say?

Can any one answer one or more of these questions:

Where in the Bible does anyone ever define God as three persons in one God?

Trinitarians claim the Trinity is central to Christianity. Why is it that there is not one example of it being taught to anyone in Acts or elsewhere in the New or Old Testament?

Why do the inspired writers everywhere speak of God like a single person, i,e,. He, Him, His, but never as a they or them?

Why does terminology, or something similar, that says "Jesus is 100 percent God and 100 percent man" never appear in the Bible?

Why did no one say Jesus resurrected himself after he died?

If Jesus pre-existed as either the Word, or God, or a member of the trinity, why does the Bible never say that and why are there no examples of such in the Old Testament?

Why did the Apostles always call Jesus "the man" (1 Timothy 2:5) "the Son of Man" or "the Son of God" but never "God the Son?"

If the early church really did believe in a Trinity, then why were the early centuries filled with disputes regarding who Jesus was with the result not being codified into the Catholic church until the mid-to-late 4th century?

Why did they not agree the Holy Spirit is a 3rd member of the trinity until the late 4th century?

Why do Trinitarians rely heavily on extra-biblical words/phrases like trinity, hypostatic union, God-man, incarnate, instead of just using the words the Bible uses?

cc: @Runningman

The writers of the Bible had words to describe those things if that was something they wanted to easily convey to their audience, however, they did not because they didn't believe those things.

Paul was an extremely literate, trained, theologian and knew exactly what he was talking about. The fact that he never stated any of the conclusions produced by modern day trinitarians, but rather stated the opposite - describing the fact that the only God being the Father, is no accident or mistake. Paul was a competent man and knew what he was talking about. Paul's writings condemn trinitarianism as heresy, as idolatry.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The writers of the Bible had words to describe those things if that was something they wanted to easily convey to their audience, however, they did not because they didn't believe those things.

Paul was an extremely literate, trained, theologian and knew exactly what he was talking about. The fact that he never stated any of the conclusions produced by modern day trinitarians, but rather stated the opposite - describing the fact that the only God being the Father, is no accident or mistake. Paul was a competent man and knew what he was talking about. Paul's writings condemn trinitarianism as heresy, as idolatry.

Paul never spoke a single word of English. Not one.

1. YOU are not Paul. Which is very needful distinction here. You're "name dropping". "Name dropping" involves mentioning someone of reputation to sell your own bias.

2. Paul preached for years. YEARS. Untold words that you don't have recorded in your bible of choice. More words have been left "unspoken" down through history to our day than what we have to reference in translation or copy. Your appeal to what Paul didn't say is rather ignorant.

3. Idolatry is fashioning something to replace God. Jesus Christ didn't replace God. He was PERFECT. Worshipping Jesus Christ isn't idolatry. Now worshipping the masters you worship...

THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF IDOLATRY.

You reject the Perfection of Jesus Christ for many masters. Do I need to quote your words for you?

 

[Peterlag]

Paul never spoke a single word of English. Not one.

1. YOU are not Paul. Which is very needful distinction here. You're "name dropping". "Name dropping" involves mentioning someone of reputation to sell your own bias.

2. Paul preached for years. YEARS. Untold words that you don't have recorded in your bible of choice. More words have been left "unspoken" down through history to our day than what we have to reference in translation or copy. Your appeal to what Paul didn't say is rather ignorant.

3. Idolatry is fashioning something to replace God. Jesus Christ didn't replace God. He was PERFECT. Worshipping Jesus Christ isn't idolatry. Now worshipping the masters you worship...

THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF IDOLATRY.

You reject the Perfection of Jesus Christ for many masters. Do I need to quote your words for you?

Your appeal to what Paul didn't say is rather ignorant.

It is completely insane... beyond ignorant to debate on the viewpoint of what is not said. There's another guy on here that's looking for a verse that says what Jesus was not. Normal humans base their beliefs on what is. In this case what is written. Not what was not written and therefore it may have been true because it was not written.

 

[Peterlag]

You're not very sharp at all. You don't know yourself.

If you don't know yourself, you can't compare yourself against God to understand what you need to change.

You MUST know you. There is no context where you can't KNOW YOU.

You only get this through experience. God doesn't gift humanity that knowledge from the beginning of their lives. Man must learn himself.

Once a man learns himself, he will appreciate his inabilities to the point of looking external to himself for answers. The only Person that has answers here is the Person of Jesus Christ that you're rejecting.

"not very sharp"........

I have noticed intelligent and informed input on the subject of debating the Trinity comes from the unitarian camp. It seems low intelligence, ignorance, and an incapacity for critical thought are prerequisites for membership in trinitarian circles.

Here's an example...
Concerning 1 John 5:7-8 where it has the words "In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth" are words that are not found in any Greek Manuscript before the 15th or 16th century and in no ancient Version. - E. W. Bullinger., A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament: (London: Samuel Bagster & Sons, 1975), p. 11 of Appendix A.

Trinitarians...
You are changing the Scriptures. Or 2 Peter 2:21 says the Bible is not to be privately interpreted. Or why are you denying the words of the Apostles?

 

[Peterlag]

You are a part of a horse alright. Every horse has one.

That description is valid for you. Not for Jesus. This oversimplification you present is always self defeating.

Reminder. If you're going to talk bad about Jesus, I'm going to point out every thing that is bad about you/humanity.

When that comparison is done, we will know you're nothing like Jesus. Your argument will pitifully fail. You and your "ilk" are always poor excuses for good men. Always. Good men are a mixture of humanity and good things that only come directly from above. That is where Jesus comes into this "picture".

I know you're going to claim that you have nothing to do with this but you do. You're the one speaking. You're the one coercing. You are the one seeking power over men while Jesus Christ lets you have your way.

You are the Master of no one. You might be the Master of @Runningman or some of these other Unitarians you're bring here but you're not really a master in the context of Eternal things. Your ways will end soon enough with the rest of humanity. You're body is going to turn to ashes and dust. Your life is but a vapor. Jesus Christ is Eternal and has always been ETERNAL. Always.

You..... well. Keep talking and proving what you are to everyone. I know who I'll exalt and worship.

As I've told your friend. The Father isn't going to be angry because I worship His one and only son. Jesus Christ. The idea of that claim is offensive to any common sense. It offends me greatly.

The Trinity does not come from Scripture. It comes from the doctrine of devils that the churches teach (and in most cases it's the first thing they teach) and then they begin to look for Scripture that supports such a concept. They do this by taking the verses out of context, or not understanding how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation.

There's reasons why the Bible does not teach the Trinity in one whole paragraph in a few different places or a whole chapter or two on it. There's reasons why there's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. There's reasons why there was never a debate about the Trinity in Scripture like we see with justification by works or who should be circumcised. Such an important subject matter like the Trinity and the Bible is silent on all of it.

And there's the spinning and twisting from the trinitarians who can't come up with one verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Trinitarians who can't come up with one verse that says why God would come to the earth as a man. Trinitarians who have to make up their own words that are not in the Bible. Words like Trinity, Deity, and Incarnated.

If any of this nonsense was true and since it's so important and a huge subject to Christianity and is necessary for salvation like many teach. Then it would have been taught by someone somewhere. And it is not.

 

[Runningman]

Paul never spoke a single word of English. Not one.

1. YOU are not Paul. Which is very needful distinction here. You're "name dropping". "Name dropping" involves mentioning someone of reputation to sell your own bias.

2. Paul preached for years. YEARS. Untold words that you don't have recorded in your bible of choice. More words have been left "unspoken" down through history to our day than what we have to reference in translation or copy. Your appeal to what Paul didn't say is rather ignorant.

3. Idolatry is fashioning something to replace God. Jesus Christ didn't replace God. He was PERFECT. Worshipping Jesus Christ isn't idolatry. Now worshipping the masters you worship...

THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF IDOLATRY.

You reject the Perfection of Jesus Christ for many masters. Do I need to quote your words for you?

People have been poring over the Bible for centuries trying to find a way to write trinitarian ideas into Scripture. You guys have been able to poison the well, but you can't change the general context of the Bible having only the Father as YHWH.

Yes, worshipping the Son as God is idolatry. No where in the Bible is the Son ever worshipped as God and when bowed to there is no clear difference between that and the way others have bowed to other humans. Jesus is described as being a prince, not the king of earth or heaven. It would be nice if the Bible put up some flashing lights and a neon sign that said "Hey! don't skim over this part, pay attention because it's important!" However, it does not. That's why I am showing you now.

God isn't a prince is He?

Revelation 1
5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Acts 5
31God exalted Him to His right hand as Prince and Savior, in order to grant repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Your appeal to what Paul didn't say is rather ignorant.

It is completely insane... beyond ignorant to debate on the viewpoint of what is not said. There's another guy on here that's looking for a verse that says what Jesus was not. Normal humans base their beliefs on what is. In this case what is written. Not what was not written and therefore it may have been true because it was not written.

Synonyms. Do you know what they are?

Trinitarianism is a natural outgrowth from the Eternal doctrines of the apostles.

I can prove it. Have been for many years to better men than yourself. Why are you pretending to be a good and wise man? It is rather obvious you're not.

Anyone that would say what you say about Jesus Christ can't be a good man.