DavidTree
Active Member
Sure there is.
Take the blinders off and pray with faith or you are not permitted to SEE
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
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Take the blinders off and pray with faith or you are not permitted to SEE
DavidTree
Active Member
Still running from the Truth
If you turn around and run to JESUS, HE will show it to you.
This reminds me that Peterlag has a works religion while failing to recognize the end of the Mosaic law -- or something like that. My concern with Unitarianism includes the tendency to drag a bunch of other errors into their beliefs.
Wow. Now you deny the resurrection. Maybe you did not recognize that before.
dwight92070
Active Member
If Christ Jesus did not pre-exist His life on earth (as the Word), then how could the Spirit of Christ dwell in the prophets? 1 Peter 1:11
dwight92070
Active Member
This stuff is too easy. John 10:17-18 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again."
Of course God raised Jesus AND of course Jesus raised Himself. Haven't you heard of the Trinity?
We see the Father loving His Son because of His willingness to lay down His life, but then He raises Himself and yet God raised Him.
"I and the Father are One."
And of course John 2:19-21 proves it as well.
Peterlag
Active Member
I can answer that...
The "spirit of Christ" in 1 Peter 1:11...This verse uses the phrase “spirit of Christ” because God revealed information about the Christ to believers via the gift of holy spirit. Unfortunately, some people have misunderstood the phrase and think it means Christ himself was present in the Old Testament, but he was not. In the first place, the phrase “spirit of Christ” never appears in the Old Testament. The “spirit of the Lord” or “the spirit of God” appears over and over, but never the “spirit of Christ.” If Jesus were alive during the Old Testament, we would expect to see that designation, but we do not.
The gift of holy spirit that God gave in the Old Testament and Gospels was always the same spirit, but it was referred to by different names depending on the context. We are used to this when it comes to God. There is only one God, but He has many different names and titles. Similarly, there is only one gift of holy spirit, but it is referred to by different names in different contexts. When it is associated with wisdom, it is called the “spirit of wisdom” (Exod. 28:3; Deut. 34:9; Eph. 1:17). When it is associated with grace, it is called the “spirit of grace” (Zech. 12:10; Heb. 10:29). When it is related to glory, it is called the “spirit of glory” (1 Pet. 4:14). It is called the “spirit of adoption” when it is associated with our everlasting life (Rom. 8:15, which is translated as “spirit of sonship” in some versions). It is called “the spirit of truth” when it is associated with the truth we learn by revelation (John 14:17; 16:13). When it came with the same power as it brought to Elijah, it was called “the spirit of Elijah” (2 Kings 2:15). These are not different spirits. All the names refer to the one gift of holy spirit that God gives.
When Peter mentions that “the spirit of Christ” was upon prophets as they “predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glory that would follow,” it is easy to see that the spirit is called the “spirit of Christ” because it is associated with Christ, foretold of Christ, and was the same holy spirit as Jesus himself received at his baptism, not because Christ was actually alive during the Old Testament. Thus, the genitive phrase, “the spirit of Christ” is a genitive of relation; the spirit that is related to Christ.
dwight92070
Active Member
Have you noticed how many times Jesus said that "He came down out of heaven" or similar words? John 6:33, 38, 50, 51, 58; 16:27-28
John the Baptist said, "He who comes from above is above all ... He who comes from heaven is above all." John3:31
So if He came down out of heaven, then He obviously pre-existed, and of course, was God.
John the Baptist said, "He who comes from above is above all ... He who comes from heaven is above all." John3:31
So if He came down out of heaven, then He obviously pre-existed, and of course, was God.
dwight92070
Active Member
Peter informs us, as an apostle of Jesus Christ, that it WAS the Spirit of Christ in the prophets. It doesn't matter that He is not called that in the Old Testament - Peter tells us Who He is.
Did Jesus have a Spirit before the Holy Spirit came upon Him? Of course He did, just as all humans do, although His Spirit pre-existed His birth - so the Spirit of Christ that Peter refers to may not necessarily be the Holy Spirit.
Paul tells us that all Scripture is "God-breathed" 2 Tim. 3:16, so we can see that the Spirit of Christ on the prophets was the breathe of God - both of which are God.
Did Jesus have a Spirit before the Holy Spirit came upon Him? Of course He did, just as all humans do, although His Spirit pre-existed His birth - so the Spirit of Christ that Peter refers to may not necessarily be the Holy Spirit.
Paul tells us that all Scripture is "God-breathed" 2 Tim. 3:16, so we can see that the Spirit of Christ on the prophets was the breathe of God - both of which are God.
Peterlag
Active Member
Have you noticed how many times Jesus said that "He came down out of heaven" or similar words? John 6:33, 38, 50, 51, 58; 16:27-28
Something was said to have come from God or come from heaven if God was its source. For example, James 1:17 says that every good gift is “from above” and “comes down” from God. What James means is clear. God is the Author and source of the good things in our lives. God works behind the scenes to provide what we need. The verse does not mean that the good things in our lives come directly down from heaven. The phrase “he who came down from heaven” in John 3:13 is to be understood in the same way we understand James’ words—that God is the source of Jesus Christ, which He was. Christ was God’s plan, and then God directly fathered Jesus.
There are also other verses that say Jesus was “sent from God,” a phrase that shows God as the ultimate source of what is sent. John the Baptist was a man “sent from God” (John 1:6), and it was he who said that Jesus “comes from above” and “comes from heaven” (John 3:31). When God wanted to tell the people that He would bless them if they gave their tithes, He told them that He would open the windows of “heaven” and pour out a blessing (Malachi 3:10). Of course, everyone understood the idiom being used, and no one believed that God would literally pour things out of heaven. They knew that the phrase meant that God was the origin of the blessings they received. Still another example is when Christ was speaking and said, “Where was the baptism of John from? From heaven or of human origin?” (Matthew 21:25). Of course, the way that John’s baptism would have been “from heaven” was if God was the source of the revelation. John did not get the idea on his own, it came “from heaven.” The verse makes the idiom clear: things could be “from heaven,” i.e., from God, or they could be “from men.” The idiom is the same when used of Jesus. Jesus is “from God,” “from heaven” or “from above” in the sense that God is his Father and thus his origin.
The idea of coming from God or being sent by God is also clarified by Jesus’ words in John 17. He said, “Just as you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.” (John 17:18). We understand perfectly what Christ meant when he said, “I sent them into the world.” He meant that he commissioned us, or appointed us. The statement does not imply that we were in heaven with Christ and then incarnated into the flesh. Christ said, “As you sent me…I sent them.” So, in the same way that Christ sent us is how we should understand the phrase that God sent Christ.
Peterlag
Active Member
This is a great example how folks that don't understand the Eastern customs and how the Bible was written in their Eastern culture and so many then make up their own concepts and then teach it like if it's God's Word. It's how they dream up their own imagination, human reasoning, speculations and assumptions.
He came down from heaven...
Something was said to have come from God or come from heaven if God was its source. For example, James 1:17 says that every good gift is “from above” and “comes down” from God. What James means is clear. God is the Author and source of the good things in our lives. God works behind the scenes to provide what we need. The verse does not mean that the good things in our lives come directly down from heaven. The phrase “he who came down from heaven” in John 3:13 is to be understood in the same way we understand James’ words—that God is the source of Jesus Christ, which He was. Christ was God’s plan, and then God directly fathered Jesus.
There are also other verses that say Jesus was “sent from God,” a phrase that shows God as the ultimate source of what is sent. John the Baptist was a man “sent from God” (John 1:6), and it was he who said that Jesus “comes from above” and “comes from heaven” (John 3:31). When God wanted to tell the people that He would bless them if they gave their tithes, He told them that He would open the windows of “heaven” and pour out a blessing (Malachi 3:10). Of course, everyone understood the idiom being used, and no one believed that God would literally pour things out of heaven.
They knew that the phrase meant that God was the origin of the blessings they received. Still another example is when Christ was speaking and said, “Where was the baptism of John from? From heaven or of human origin?” (Matthew 21:25). Of course, the way that John’s baptism would have been “from heaven” was if God was the source of the revelation. John did not get the idea on his own, it came “from heaven.” The verse makes the idiom clear: things could be “from heaven,” i.e., from God, or they could be “from men.” The idiom is the same when used of Jesus. Jesus is “from God,” “from heaven” or “from above” in the sense that God is his Father and thus his origin.
The idea of coming from God or being sent by God is also clarified by Jesus’ words in John 17. He said, “Just as you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.” (John 17:18). We understand perfectly what Christ meant when he said, “I sent them into the world.” He meant that he commissioned us, or appointed us. The statement does not imply that we were in heaven with Christ and then incarnated into the flesh. Christ said, “As you sent me…I sent them.” So, in the same way that Christ sent us is how we should understand the phrase that God sent Christ.
He came down from heaven...
Something was said to have come from God or come from heaven if God was its source. For example, James 1:17 says that every good gift is “from above” and “comes down” from God. What James means is clear. God is the Author and source of the good things in our lives. God works behind the scenes to provide what we need. The verse does not mean that the good things in our lives come directly down from heaven. The phrase “he who came down from heaven” in John 3:13 is to be understood in the same way we understand James’ words—that God is the source of Jesus Christ, which He was. Christ was God’s plan, and then God directly fathered Jesus.
There are also other verses that say Jesus was “sent from God,” a phrase that shows God as the ultimate source of what is sent. John the Baptist was a man “sent from God” (John 1:6), and it was he who said that Jesus “comes from above” and “comes from heaven” (John 3:31). When God wanted to tell the people that He would bless them if they gave their tithes, He told them that He would open the windows of “heaven” and pour out a blessing (Malachi 3:10). Of course, everyone understood the idiom being used, and no one believed that God would literally pour things out of heaven.
They knew that the phrase meant that God was the origin of the blessings they received. Still another example is when Christ was speaking and said, “Where was the baptism of John from? From heaven or of human origin?” (Matthew 21:25). Of course, the way that John’s baptism would have been “from heaven” was if God was the source of the revelation. John did not get the idea on his own, it came “from heaven.” The verse makes the idiom clear: things could be “from heaven,” i.e., from God, or they could be “from men.” The idiom is the same when used of Jesus. Jesus is “from God,” “from heaven” or “from above” in the sense that God is his Father and thus his origin.
The idea of coming from God or being sent by God is also clarified by Jesus’ words in John 17. He said, “Just as you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.” (John 17:18). We understand perfectly what Christ meant when he said, “I sent them into the world.” He meant that he commissioned us, or appointed us. The statement does not imply that we were in heaven with Christ and then incarnated into the flesh. Christ said, “As you sent me…I sent them.” So, in the same way that Christ sent us is how we should understand the phrase that God sent Christ.
Can I share this in a book on eisegetical reasoning?
DavidTree
Active Member
Absolutely True
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
JESUS did not speak 'idioms' - HE spoke Truth
When JESUS said HE came down from Above, HE was speaking factual truth and HE proved it to everyone = even to this day.
There are no 'idioms' in these words of Christ = John 8:21-24
Then Jesus said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin.
Where I go you cannot come.”
So the Jews said, “Will He kill Himself, because He says, ‘Where I go you cannot come’?”
And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Peterlag
Active Member
Idioms are used often in the Bible even if you deny them or don't understand Eastern culture. Same with the food Manna that Israel found on the ground. It did not fall from the sky like snow. It was on the ground in the morning. The idiom was that it came from above or it came from heaven.
DavidTree
Active Member
You just diverted from the Scripture in Post 1,873
Return to the Scripture in Post 1,873
Peterlag
Active Member
It makes no difference if we are talking about what I posted or your response. Idioms are still used often in the Bible even if you deny them or don't understand Eastern culture. Same with the food Manna that Israel found on the ground. It did not fall from the sky like snow. It was on the ground in the morning. The idiom was that it came from above or it came from heaven.
I'm fine with idioms. I just do not like people applying ideas that apply a magical sense that the context is no longer important.
DavidTree
Active Member
It makes a HUGE difference because JESUS did not use a single idiom in that specific passage.
No one is denying the use of idioms found in scripture as long as they are clearly present, in which case there are none present in
John 8:21-24
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There are so many great statements about Jesus in this gospel.
DavidTree
Active Member
Yes sir and there no idioms are present in this short passage.
Like you, i do not deny the use of idioms when they are present.
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