Your Views on The Trinity

[MTMattie]

the he in Matthews 19:4 is God. and here's why 101G knows this. for our brother Mark recorded the same conversation. LISTEN, Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female." God here in Mark 10:6 is the he in Matthews 19:4 who made them male and female in the beginning.

so he who is GOD is a single person who made man male and female in the beginning. so, common sense suggests one need to address Genesis 1:26 ... AND ..... Genesis 1:27 again. because the Lord Jesus don't LIE.

101G.

Then why did they feel it necessary to change up the wording in baptism in the NT to in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20 (NASB)

Depending on your particular belief of the meaning of Baptism, forgivenes and sin eradication. or salvation... as only God would have these powers why all 3 now are mentioned?

 

[Peterlag]

You show Ignorance once again

Titus 2:13 (NASB95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:


you are ignorant of Grandville sharp's rule

Statement of the rule "The following rule by Granville Sharp of a century back still proves to be true: `When the copulative KAI connects two nouns of the same case, if the article HO or any of its cases precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle; i.e., it denotes a further description of the first-named person.'" (A Manual Of The Greek New Testament, Dana & Mantey, p. 147) "Basically, Granville Sharp's rule states that when you have two nouns, which are not proper names (such as Cephas, or Paul, or Timothy), which are describing a person, and the two nouns are connected by the word 'and,' and the first noun has the article ('the') while the second does not, both nouns are referring to the same person." - James White The basic formula (in the Greek word order) may be seen in this manner: • Article (ho) + noun1 + and (kai) + noun2 Granville Sharp's rule says that since the definite article (ho, or its variant) precedes only the first noun and not both, then the reference is to one person -- this being the case in the verses quoted above

In fact, this same exact construction is used 4 other times in 2 Peter in relation to Christ:

“for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (tou Kyriou hemon kai Soteros ‘Iesou Christou).” 2 Peter 1:11 NKJV

“For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (tou Kyriou kai Soteros ‘Iesou Christou), they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.” 2 Peter 2:20 NKJV

“that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior (tou Kyriou kai Soteros),” 2 Peter 3:2 NKJV

“but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (tou Kyriou hemon kai Soteros ‘Iesou Christou). To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.” 2 Peter 3:18 NKJV

These point to our lord and savior who is Jesus Christ one person

And in Titus 2:13 and 2 Pe 1:1 it is the God and savior who is Jesus Christ again one person

Some Trinitarians say that the grammar of Titus 2:13 forces the interpretation that Jesus is God because of the Granville Sharp rule of Greek grammar. That is not the case, however. The Granville Sharp rule has been debated and successfully challenged. The highly regarded Trinitarian Henry Alford gives a number of reasons as to why the grammar of the Greek does not force the interpretation of the passage to make Christ God.

 

[Peterlag]

Let's talk about Colossians 2:9...

“fullness.” The Greek word “fullness” is plērōma πλήρωμα). The noun plērōma occurs 17 times in the New Testament, and has various meanings that all relate to the basic meaning of the word, which is “fullness.” For example, some of the things that it refers to are: to baskets full of food (Mark 6:43 and 8:20); to the full number of Gentiles (Romans 11:12, 25); to love being the “fullness” (i.e., fulfilling) of the Law (Romans 13:10); to the full measure of a blessing (Romans 15:29); to the fullness of the earth (1 Corinthians 10:26); to a fulfilled time period (Galatians 4:4; Ephesians 1:10); to the Body being the fullness of Christ (Ephesians 1:23); to the fullness of God that each believer has (Ephesians 3:19); and to the fullness of Christ (Ephesians 4:13).

Seeing the wide variety of subjects that “fullness” refers to shows us that we must understand the word in its context and from the scope of Scripture. Thus while Trinitarians want to assert that “all the fullness” means “everything God is” it is clear that they are importing that meaning from their theology, because plērōma does not have to mean that. In this context, plērōma means the same thing as it does in Ephesians 3:19, which says that each believer may be “filled with all the fullness [plērōma] of God.” Colossians 2:9 is saying Christ was filled with all the fullness of God, and the next verse, Colossians 2:10, says that we believers have what Christ had, and Ephesians 3:19 is saying that we should be, in a practical outward sense, filled with the plērōma of God also.

In fact, it is very logical that since each believer has “Christ” in them (Colossians 1:27), and is part of the “Body of Christ” (Ephesians 5:30), and is in union with Christ (Romans 6:3-6), and “in Christ” also partakes of the “fullness” (Colossians 2:10), that the meaning of plērōma in these verses in Colossians refers to being filled with the character, power, and glory of God, just as Christ was. Reinier Schippers writes: “This fullness which is described in Colossians 1:15-18 is entirely related to Christ’s cross (Colossians 1:20), death (Colossians 1:22), and resurrection (Colossians 1:18). For this reason believers also have this fullness in them (Colossians 2:10). By his cross, death, and resurrection they are reconciled through faith (Colossians 2:12ff.), renewed, and made to participate in his triumph. There is no justification in saying that because the plērōma is in Christ, he must be God. If “all the fullness” of what God was, being in Christ, made him God, then the next verse (Colossians 2:10), would make us God also, because it says that we have that same fullness.

 

[synergy]

"While we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.”

The NASB reads “…looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.” In the NIV84, we await the “glorious appearing” of God, while in the NASB we await the “appearing of the glory” of God our Savior (this is a use of “Savior” where the word is applied in the context to God, not Christ.) “we wait for the... appearing of our great God and Savior’s glory—Jesus Christ” where “Jesus Christ” is the “glory of God” not God himself.

To Paul, God is clearly someone different from Christ Jesus. Secondly, God is called “Savior” just three verses earlier in Titus 2:10 (also in Titus. 1:3; 3:4). So it would not be out of the ordinary for both “God” and “Savior” to refer to the Father. God’s Word also teaches that when Christ comes, he will come with his Father’s glory: “For the Son of Man is about to come... in the glory of his Father” (Matthew 16:27). Its purpose is not to expound the doctrine of the Trinity in any way, nor is there any reason to assume that Paul would be making a Trinitarian reference here. It makes perfect sense for Scripture to call Christ “the glory of God.”

cc: @TomL @dwight92070

You didn’t talk about the usage of the word "appearing" in your comments. The fact remains that nobody has ever seen the appearance of God the Father except for Jesus Christ. For you to say that God the Father does appear to anyone else that can only mean you are smoking some strong weed and hallucinating again.

Titus 2:13 (NASB95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

 

[Peterlag]

You didn’t talk about the usage of the word "appearing" in your comments. The fact remains that nobody has ever seen the appearance of God the Father except for Jesus Christ. For you to say that God the Father does appear to anyone else that can only mean you are smoking some strong weed and hallucinating again.

Titus 2:13 (NASB95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

It's not my fault you cannot understand what I wrote. What you are saying I did not respond to is there. Most of what I post is blind to you and I don't know why. You have eyes but see not.

The NASB reads “…looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.” In the NIV84, we await the “glorious appearing” of God, while in the NASB we await the “appearing of the glory” of God our Savior (this is a use of “Savior” where the word is applied in the context to God, not Christ.) “we wait for the... appearing of our great God and Savior’s glory—Jesus Christ” where “Jesus Christ” is the “glory of God” not God himself.

To Paul, God is clearly someone different from Christ Jesus. Secondly, God is called “Savior” just three verses earlier in Titus 2:10 (also in Titus. 1:3; 3:4). So it would not be out of the ordinary for both “God” and “Savior” to refer to the Father. God’s Word also teaches that when Christ comes, he will come with his Father’s glory: “For the Son of Man is about to come... in the glory of his Father” (Matthew 16:27). Its purpose is not to expound the doctrine of the Trinity in any way, nor is there any reason to assume that Paul would be making a Trinitarian reference here. It makes perfect sense for Scripture to call Christ “the glory of God.”

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If sin is forgiven in the New testament it is not still there

You need a better reply

And you need a better understanding of "Atonement"

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Then why did they feel it necessary to change up the wording in baptism in the NT to in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20 (NASB)

Depending on your particular belief of the meaning of Baptism, forgivenes and sin eradication. or salvation... as only God would have these powers why all 3 now are mentioned?

want the short answer .
BECAUSE GOD IS HIS WORD HE IS HIS SPIRIT .
In JESUS THE CHRIST THE NAME OF GOD HAS BEEN MANIFEST .
If ye have seen me ye have seen the Father . GOD IS HIS WORD . there is and can be NO DOUBT ON THAT .
AND HE IS HIS SPIRIT . EVEN JESUS says I WILL NOT leave you comfortless , I WILL COME UNTO YOU
when speaking about the SPIRIT . AND HE EVEN SAYS ME AND MY FATHER . its real clear
why thomas knelt before HIM and said what HE SAID and JESUS NEVER CORRECTED HIM

 

[7xLightray]

TAKE the PATH of GOD = Genesis chapter 1 = Man has been created with One Image of GOD for ALL mankind.

What do you mean by:

.."There is Only One Image of GOD"

..and..

..God Says ONLY ONE Image was made = for Adam = Eve becomes of the ONE Image thru Adam

Do you mean, and are you referring to Gen 2:24, "..and they shall become one flesh"? "One flesh" meaning: one image? And "they" meaning: Adam and Eve, male and female, these two, which are one flesh, one image?

..and..

Genesis chapter 1 = Man has been created with One Image of GOD for ALL mankind.

Do you mean "Man" = "they" in Gen 1:26, and that "they" = "male and female", as it also reads in Gen 5:1-2..

1 "In the day that God created man [H120. Singular], He made him [Singular] in the likeness [meaning image] of God.

2 He created them ["them" (Plural) pointing back to "manH120" (Singular)] male and female, and blessed them and called them [which is plural] Mankind [H120. which is Singular, the same word as in verse 1 above] in the day they were created."?

He called "them" (Plural) "man/mankind" (H120 Singular), showing "manH120" is referring to both "male and female" and also to "them," and even to one image.

Showing that the singular man/mankindH120 (the one image), which consists of both male and female, is one image, one image of God, the "Us" (which is plural).

 

[MTMattie]

want the short answer .
BECAUSE GOD IS HIS WORD HE IS HIS SPIRIT .
In JESUS THE CHRIST THE NAME OF GOD HAS BEEN MANIFEST .
If ye have seen me ye have seen the Father . GOD IS HIS WORD . there is and can be NO DOUBT ON THAT .
AND HE IS HIS SPIRIT . EVEN JESUS says I WILL NOT leave you comfortless , I WILL COME UNTO YOU
when speaking about the SPIRIT . AND HE EVEN SAYS ME AND MY FATHER . its real clear
why thomas knelt before HIM and said what HE SAID and JESUS NEVER CORRECTED HIM

Not going into who is what or what not.

IF God is his Word (Jesus) and God is His spirit (Holy) that is not explanation for why all 3 are named in baptism.... when a Baptism to a single entity would suffice.

AND

Ummmmmm
We better change the wording of John 1:2 speaking on the Word...." He was in the beginning with God."

IF GOD IS HIS WORD... certainly John was a little dense saying He was in the beginning with God instead of saying something like He was in the beginning as God. or God as His word was in the beginning.

Because if they were a single entity I never read where they divided for certain things like an amoeba can.

But did it not have to happen because John again... poor dear mentally challenged John says.... John 1:14 "14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So here we have the Word that is somehow pulled from God.

@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY .. you explained "GOD IS HIS WORD . there is and can be NO DOUBT ON THAT ."

So somehow he divided..... so that "14And the Word became flesh (flesh), and dwelt among us, "

Yes siree. Y'all need to keep these truthers coming cause every day I see something new in these threads and all I can say is WOW.

 

[synergy]

It's not my fault you cannot understand what I wrote. What you are saying I did not respond to is there. Most of what I post is blind to you and I don't know why. You have eyes but see not.

The NASB reads “…looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.” In the NIV84, we await the “glorious appearing” of God, while in the NASB we await the “appearing of the glory” of God our Savior (this is a use of “Savior” where the word is applied in the context to God, not Christ.) “we wait for the... appearing of our great God and Savior’s glory—Jesus Christ” where “Jesus Christ” is the “glory of God” not God himself.

To Paul, God is clearly someone different from Christ Jesus. Secondly, God is called “Savior” just three verses earlier in Titus 2:10 (also in Titus. 1:3; 3:4). So it would not be out of the ordinary for both “God” and “Savior” to refer to the Father. God’s Word also teaches that when Christ comes, he will come with his Father’s glory: “For the Son of Man is about to come... in the glory of his Father” (Matthew 16:27). Its purpose is not to expound the doctrine of the Trinity in any way, nor is there any reason to assume that Paul would be making a Trinitarian reference here. It makes perfect sense for Scripture to call Christ “the glory of God.”

Only God can possess the Glory of God. That proves that Jesus is God. Thanks for your input.

 

[TomL]

And you need a better understanding of "Atonement"

The word is forgiven. It appears you do not understand it.

 

[TomL]

Some Trinitarians say that the grammar of Titus 2:13 forces the interpretation that Jesus is God because of the Granville Sharp rule of Greek grammar. That is not the case, however. The Granville Sharp rule has been debated and successfully challenged. The highly regarded Trinitarian Henry Alford gives a number of reasons as to why the grammar of the Greek does not force the interpretation of the passage to make Christ God.

As I showed

Titus 2:13 (NASB95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:


The two verses above follow a pattern seen four plus times in 2 Peter

“for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (tou Kyriou hemon kai Soteros ‘Iesou Christou).” 2 Peter 1:11 NKJV

“For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (tou Kyriou kai Soteros ‘Iesou Christou), they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.” 2 Peter 2:20 NKJV

“that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior (tou Kyriou kai Soteros),” 2 Peter 3:2 NKJV

“but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (tou Kyriou hemon kai Soteros ‘Iesou Christou). To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.” 2 Peter 3:18 NKJV

These point to our lord and savior who is Jesus Christ one person

And in Titus 2:13 and 2 Pe 1:1 it is the God and savior who is Jesus Christ again one person

Of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ (του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος Ἰησου Χριστου [tou megalou theou kai sōtēros Iēsou Christou]). This is the necessary meaning of the one article with θεου [theou] and σωτηρος [sōtēros] just as in 2 Peter 1:1, 11. See Robertson, Grammar, p. 786.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Tt 2:13.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The word is forgiven. It appears you do not understand it.

Chuckle!!! Fer Sure ONE OF US doesn't!!!!

 

[DavidTree]

What do you mean by:

..and..

Do you mean, and are you referring to Gen 2:24, "..and they shall become one flesh"? "One flesh" meaning: one image? And "they" meaning: Adam and Eve, male and female, these two, which are one flesh, one image?

..and..

Do you mean "Man" = "they" in Gen 1:26, and that "they" = "male and female", as it also reads in Gen 5:1-2..

1 "In the day that God created man [H120. Singular], He made him [Singular] in the likeness [meaning image] of God.

2 He created them ["them" (Plural) pointing back to "manH120" (Singular)] male and female, and blessed them and called them [which is plural] Mankind [H120. which is Singular, the same word as in verse 1 above] in the day they were created."?

He called "them" (Plural) "man/mankind" (H120 Singular), showing "manH120" is referring to both "male and female" and also to "them," and even to one image.

Showing that the singular man/mankindH120 (the one image), which consists of both male and female, is one image, one image of God, the "Us" (which is plural).

BINGO

 

[Peterlag]

Only God can possess the Glory of God. That proves that Jesus is God. Thanks for your input.

Do you have a verse that says only God can possess the glory of God? Preferably in the New Testament.

 

[TomL]

Chuckle!!! Fer Sure ONE OF US doesn't!!!!

Indeed and that would be you.

 

[TomL]

As I showed

Titus 2:13 (NASB95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:


The two verses above follow a pattern seen four plus times in 2 Peter

“for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (tou Kyriou hemon kai Soteros ‘Iesou Christou).” 2 Peter 1:11 NKJV

“For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (tou Kyriou kai Soteros ‘Iesou Christou), they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.” 2 Peter 2:20 NKJV

“that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior (tou Kyriou kai Soteros),” 2 Peter 3:2 NKJV

“but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (tou Kyriou hemon kai Soteros ‘Iesou Christou). To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.” 2 Peter 3:18 NKJV

These point to our lord and savior who is Jesus Christ one person

And in Titus 2:13 and 2 Pe 1:1 it is the God and savior who is Jesus Christ again one person

Of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ (του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος Ἰησου Χριστου [tou megalou theou kai sōtēros Iēsou Christou]). This is the necessary meaning of the one article with θεου [theou] and σωτηρος [sōtēros] just as in 2 Peter 1:1, 11. See Robertson, Grammar, p. 786.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Tt 2:13.

BTW

It is Christ who appears

Of the great God. There can be little doubt, if any, that by “the great God” here, the apostle referred to the Lord Jesus, for it is not a doctrine of the New Testament that God himself as such, or in contradistinction from his incarnate Son, will appear at the last day. It is said, indeed, that the Saviour will come “in the glory of his Father, with his angels” (Matt. 16:27), but that God as such will appear is not taught in the Bible.

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: I Thessalonians to Philemon (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 279.

Not God the father

 

[7xLightray]

BINGO

This means then that you do agree with me, that God made two in His image, male and female, and called them "man" in the day he created them, which is Gen 1:26-27 as per Gen 5:1-2.

 

[DavidTree]

This means then that you do agree with me, that God made two in His image, male and female, and called them "man" in the day he created them, which is Gen 1:26-27 as per Gen 5:1-2.

ABSOLUTEL = ONE Image of God = Adam = Eve from Adam = ONE Image of God for Adam and the SAME Image for Eve

 

[synergy]

Do you have a verse that says only God can possess the glory of God? Preferably in the New Testament.

Here are several Bible verses that affirm Jesus uniquely shares or reveals the Glory of God, emphasizing that His Glory is not just like God’s but actually is God's own Glory:

"I am the Lord; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols." (Isaiah 42:8)

God says He shares His Glory with no one. When we see Jesus possessing God's Glory, this implies Jesus is God. Whoever understands logic let him listen and learn.

"And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." (John 17:5)

Here Jesus speaks of preexistent Divine Glory shared with the Father before creation — a glory only God can possess. How many people do you know that are uncreated, existed before creation?

"He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power." (Heb 1:3)

Jesus isn't just reflecting God's glory; He is its radiance — its very outshining. And Jesus has the same exact nature as God the Father. Who else do you know who has God's exact nature?

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