Your views on human beings having a sin nature

[TedT]

We are not born evil.

Only IF our birth is our creation. If we are indeed created before the creation of the physical universe which we probably all saw and were moved to sing HIS praises, Job 38:7, then we may have sinned before the foundation of the world and then sown, ie, born, into this world as sinners, Mtt 13:36-39, as sinful people of the kingdom and sinful people of the evil one.

But I agree - NO ONE WAS CREATED A SINNER but only accrues sinfulness to himself by his free will choice to sin.

 

[brightfame52]

Even while the wickedness of man was great upon the earth

Genesis 6:5–9 (KJV 1900) — 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Gods indictment on mans nature following the Fall or sin of Adam Gen 6:5

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The word heart here is the hebrew word lēḇ:
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

1. inner part, midst
   1. midst (of things)
   2. heart (of man)
   3. soul, heart (of man)
   4. mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
   5. inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
   6. conscience
   7. heart (of moral character)

Its only evil continually, there is no reprieve from being only evil.

This is taking in consideration mans good moral character as well, even then his heart is continually evil, his will.

 

[TomL]

Gods indictment on mans nature following the Fall or sin of Adam Gen 6:5

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The word heart here is the hebrew word lēḇ:
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

1. inner part, midst
   1. midst (of things)
   2. heart (of man)
   3. soul, heart (of man)
   4. mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
   5. inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
   6. conscience
   7. heart (of moral character)

Its only evil continually, there is no reprieve from being only evil.

This is taking in consideration mans good moral character as well, even then his heart is continually evil, his will.

yep

Even while the wickedness of man was great upon the earth

Genesis 6:5–9 (KJV 1900) — 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

 

[Truther]

Only IF our birth is our creation. If we are indeed created before the creation of the physical universe which we probably all saw and were moved to sing HIS praises, Job 38:7, then we may have sinned before the foundation of the world and then sown, ie, born, into this world as sinners, Mtt 13:36-39, as sinful people of the kingdom and sinful people of the evil one.

But I agree - NO ONE WAS CREATED A SINNER but only accrues sinfulness to himself by his free will choice to sin.

Yes, the great judge of the universe is not going to judge anybody because they could have sinned, but rather they have sinned. You have to commit the act to be convicted.

 

[TedT]

Yes, the great judge of the universe is not going to judge anybody because they could have sinned, but rather they have sinned. You have to commit the act to be convicted.

Yet I see implications to death being the wages of sin and not just a natural consequence of life which implies that all death, even in the womb, proves that the person was a sinner, proving that they could not have been created in the womb as innocents but had already chosen to be evil in GOD's sight (whether as part of HIS kingdom or as part of the evil one's retinue) before they are sown, not created, into this world: Matt 13:36-39.

 

[TomL]

Yet I see implications to death being the wages of sin and not just a natural consequence of life which implies that all death, even in the womb, proves that the person was a sinner, proving that they could not have been created in the womb as innocents but had already chosen to be evil in GOD's sight (whether as part of HIS kingdom or as part of the evil one's retinue) before they are sown, not created, into this world: Matt 13:36-39.

I see it as a consequence and do not accept PCE

sown is used because men are compared to seed and not because they are actually sown

 

[Behold]

Its only evil continually, there is no reprieve from being only evil.

Jesus said to HUMANITY...... "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children""""


See the "KNOW How"?

That is "innate".. ."inside the heart"...

That is proof that the evil in a Human, isn't all there is... in a Human.

As to CHOOSE to give "GOOD things" to your children, is proof that the "Total Depravity" "doctrine of devils'" that is created by the demonic John Calvin, is an obvious LIE.

Calvin was a master of lies, because He was totally deceived by the Father of Lies.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Some of us believe the fall resulted in the birth of a sin nature in Adam.

Except that he SINNED without your supposed "Sin Nature". Adam, Me, you, And Jesus all have/had a HUMAN NATURE.

"Sin Nature" is nothing but "theology". I'll die FOR MY OWN SIN, not anything that Adam did when he was alive. The only thing that "Changed" in Adam was that he DIED SPIRITUALLY just as God said he would. Same as Us when we SIN for the first time.

The difference between me and Jesus is that Jesus never allowed His lust to "conceive" and become SIN, whereas I give in to my lust with some regularity - just like you.

 

[TedT]

I see it as a consequence and do not accept PCE

sown is used because men are compared to seed and not because they are actually sown

Yes, we all have reasons for the choices we make and it is by faith that we choose our theologies, not proof.

If sown was chosen to keep the metaphor of people as seeds then these verses explain nothing but are merely an extension of the metaphor.

38 the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom clearly explains that in the parable the seeds are people and
the weeds are the sons of the evil one also clearly states that the weeds in the parable are people.

The import is that people are said to be sown, not created since the devil sows people also, like seeds are sown and to deny the word sown as nothing more than an repetition of the metaphor is to deny that He was teaching anything by this explanation of this metaphor.

Your faith tells you that sown cannot refer to people while mine says sown obviously refers to people and the interpretation of other verses which would deny this must be reevaluated,

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Jesus said to HUMANITY...... "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children""""


See the "KNOW How"?

That is "innate".. ."inside the heart"...

That is proof that the evil in a Human, isn't all there is... in a Human.

As to CHOOSE to give "GOOD things" to your children, is proof that the "Total Depravity" "doctrine of devils'" that is created by the demonic John Calvin, is an obvious LIE.

Calvin was a master of lies, because He was totally deceived by the Father of Lies.

If you, then, being evil...

Jesus doesn't say giving food to our children means we're any less evil. Just that in spite of being evil, we can do some good things.

Only God is good. Being evil, our "good deeds" are generally survival instincts or attempts to get brownie points from others or God. You can give $1 million to charity, and if that act was not initiated by the Holy Spirit and therefore did not have God at its source, that "good deed" will be burned up.

 

[Behold]

"Sin Nature" is nothing but "theology".

Here is what the NT teaches.

"all have sinned", ., "there is none righteous, no not one"........because "one man's sin entered"... and it causes the "Adamic Nature" that is why :

"all have sinned" and there is none righteous, no not one".

And @Bob Carabbio , that is not "theology".....that is the TRUE explanation for why you SINNED.

 

[Behold]

If you, then, being evil...

Jesus doesn't say giving food to our children means we're any less evil.

Read what i posted, carefully. @The Rogue Tomato

See, Calvin the devil, teaches that you are too Depraved to turn to Jesus because there is nothing GOOD in you, that could cause you to do it.

Yet, Jesus just told you that the "evil" can do "GOOD", so that proves that they can choose GOOD, as they just did when they "give good gifts"

So, anyone and everyone.... = can CHOOSE CHRIST.

"total depravity" is John Calvin's Lie.

One of many....

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Read what i posted, carefully. @The Rogue Tomato

See, Calvin the devil, teaches that you are too Depraved to turn to Jesus because there is nothing GOOD in you, that could cause you to do it.

Yet, Jesus just told you that the "evil" can do "GOOD", so that proves that they can choose GOOD, as they just did when they "give good gifts"

So, anyone and everyone.... = can CHOOSE CHRIST.

"total depravity" is John Calvin's Lie.

One of many....

You really need to chill on this "Calvin is the devil". I could make a very convincing argument that salvation by free will choice to believe is a demonic lie, but you've convinced me that saying things like that is way over the top. And you're not even making an argument here, you're just jumping to the conclusion that Calvinism is of Satan. If you want to make an extreme accusation like that, back it up with some scripture. Otherwise all you've got is "Calvinism is what Satan wants you to believe!" vs. "Free will is what Satan wants you to believe!" and I wouldn't pay a fiver for that argument.

 

[brightfame52]

yep

Even while the wickedness of man was great upon the earth

Genesis 6:5–9 (KJV 1900) — 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Gods indictment on mans nature following the Fall or sin of Adam Gen 6:5

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The word heart here is the hebrew word lēḇ:
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

1. inner part, midst
   1. midst (of things)
   2. heart (of man)
   3. soul, heart (of man)
   4. mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
   5. inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
   6. conscience
   7. heart (of moral character)

Its only evil continually, there is no reprieve from being only evil.

This is taking in consideration mans good moral character as well, even then his heart is continually evil, his will.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Here is what the NT teaches.

"all have sinned", ., "there is none righteous, no not one"........because "one man's sin entered"... and it causes the "Adamic Nature" that is why :

"all have sinned" and there is none righteous, no not one".

And @Bob Carabbio , that is not "theology".....that is the TRUE explanation for why you SINNED.

Yup - I SIN with the same human nature Adam was created with - just like you.

 

[brightfame52]

Yup - I SIN with the same human nature Adam was created with - just like you.

Gods indictment on mans nature following the Fall or sin of Adam Gen 6:5

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The word heart here is the hebrew word lēḇ:
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

1. inner part, midst
   1. midst (of things)
   2. heart (of man)
   3. soul, heart (of man)
   4. mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
   5. inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
   6. conscience
   7. heart (of moral character)

Its only evil continually, there is no reprieve from being only evil.

This is taking in consideration mans good moral character as well, even then his heart is continually evil, his will.

 

[TomL]

Gods indictment on mans nature following the Fall or sin of Adam Gen 6:5

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The word heart here is the hebrew word lēḇ:
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

1. inner part, midst
   1. midst (of things)
   2. heart (of man)
   3. soul, heart (of man)
   4. mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
   5. inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
   6. conscience
   7. heart (of moral character)

Its only evil continually, there is no reprieve from being only evil.

This is taking in consideration mans good moral character as well, even then his heart is continually evil, his will.

Did God indict Noah?


Even while the wickedness of man was great upon the earth

Genesis 6:5–9 (KJV 1900) — 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

 

[brightfame52]

Yup - I SIN with the same human nature Adam was created with - just like you.

Adam did have a sin nature, thats why he sinned when tempted, he and eve had the same nature. The only thing, Adam and Eve were innocent at first, also at that time they were not dead to God in fellowship, and they at that time had not become enslaved to sin, but that changed when they sinned, transgressed. Now man comes into the world dead to God[Spiritually] and enslaved to sin

 

[brightfame52]

Did God indict Noah?


Even while the wickedness of man was great upon the earth

Genesis 6:5–9 (KJV 1900) — 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

No, Noah found Grace. But this still applied to him,

Gods indictment on mans nature following the Fall or sin of Adam Gen 6:5

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The word heart here is the hebrew word lēḇ:
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

1. inner part, midst
   1. midst (of things)
   2. heart (of man)
   3. soul, heart (of man)
   4. mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
   5. inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
   6. conscience
   7. heart (of moral character)

Its only evil continually, there is no reprieve from being only evil.

This is taking in consideration mans good moral character as well, even then his heart is continually evil, his will.

 

[TomL]

No, Noah found Grace. But this still applied to him,

Gods indictment on mans nature following the Fall or sin of Adam Gen 6:5

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The word heart here is the hebrew word lēḇ:
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

1. inner part, midst
   1. midst (of things)
   2. heart (of man)
   3. soul, heart (of man)
   4. mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
   5. inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
   6. conscience
   7. heart (of moral character)

Its only evil continually, there is no reprieve from being only evil.

This is taking in consideration mans good moral character as well, even then his heart is continually evil, his will.

Why was Noah not indicted

Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.