The Doctrine of a "Fall" is a Lie

[jeremiah1five]

Gentiles are to be distinguished from Jews in that they “do not have the law” (Rom. 2:14).
Therefore, Gentiles are said to be “without the law” (Rom. 2:12).
When Saul thinks of those who have the law (Jews) and those who do not have the law (Gentiles), he distinguishes between sin and transgression.
Gentiles, even though they do not possess the law, still sin. “All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law” (Rom. 2:12).
Transgression can be distinguished from sin, for “where there is no law there is no transgression” (Rom. 4:15). If we adopt this distinction, Gentiles did not transgress the law, for they did not have the written law. But even though they did not transgress a written law, they still sinned, in that they violated the will of God. Similarly, Saul argues that those who lived between the time of Adam and the time of Moses sinned, even if they did not transgress a specifically revealed commandment as Adam did or as the Israelites did under the Mosaic covenant (Rom. 5:14).

The doctrine of the "Fall" in Christianity is a core belief rooted in the biblical story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Here's a breakdown:

The Story

• God creates Adam and Eve, placing them in a perfect paradise, the Garden of Eden.
• God gives them one prohibition: they cannot eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
• A serpent tempts Eve, suggesting that eating from the tree will make them like God, knowing good and evil.
• Eve eats the fruit and then gives some to Adam, who also eats it.
• Immediately, they realize they are naked and become ashamed, recognizing their vulnerability and imperfection.
• God expels them from the Garden, changing their relationship with Him and the world around them.

Interpretations and Significance

• Original Sin: Many Christians believe the Fall introduced sin into the world, corrupting human nature. This concept is known as Original Sin, suggesting all humans are born with a tendency towards sin.
• Loss of Innocence: The Fall represents the loss of humanity's original state of innocence and harmony with God. It marks the beginning of suffering, pain, and death in the world.
• Free Will: The story highlights the importance of free will. Adam and Eve had the choice to obey or disobey God, and their decision had significant consequences.
• Separation from God: The Fall resulted in a separation between humanity and God. This separation is seen as the root of human suffering and the need for redemption.

No doubt the doctrine of a "Fall" has permeated all of Christianity since the beginning but as I have shown there does not need to be a prohibition of a sin or transgression of God's Law for there to be a sin or transgression as Saul eloquently states in Romans 5:14.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Rom. 5:14.

How can there be a "Fall" which is identified and counted as such in their eating of the forbidden tree? "As saith the ancients, wickedness comes from the wicked" (1 Sam. 24:13) which is the same as saying "sin comes from sinner." So, what was Adam and the woman's sin before they ate from the tree? Only this: They added to God's Word(s).

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

By adding to God's Word(s) Adam and thew woman prove themselves as liars as defined by Proverbs and thus were sinners who sinned, and their second sin was in eating from the forbidden tree:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Genesis 3:3.

Adding to God's Word(s) prove Adam and the woman were sinners before their eating from the tree thus destroying the doctrine of a "Fall" which has historically been wrapped around the belief that eating from the tree was their first sin which caused a "Fall" from grace (or sinlessness, or holiness, or innocence.) Sin cannot come from holiness or sinlessness, which is the traditional belief in Christendom. How can there be a "Fall" from grace when they were not in grace to begin with? Doesn't Proverbs say "adding to God's Word(s) is lying"?

22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: Proverbs 12:22.

So, how can one defend a "Fall" from grace in eating from the forbidden tree when Adam and the woman were liars to begin with? There was no "Fall" in the garden but two sinners who added to God's Word(s): "neither shall ye touch it" proving that sin comes from sinner just as "wickedness proceedeth from the wicked" (1 Sam. 24:13.)

 

[Diserner]

For a more Biblical view see here:

Thread 'FOUR reasons I believe in the sinful nature. (original sin/ancestral sin/total depravity)'

Aug 17, 2023

PREFACE.

For those whom I have come across, who deny that humans have a sinful nature, that is a nature that is incapable of performing a righteously meritorious thought or action without supernatural undeserved grace from God, it all seems to stem back to the idea that, if God allows such a thing, it makes people victims instead of criminals, since no one can help sinning. And underneath that is the appeal to the idea that we can improve ourselves and polish up our genuinely good and pure nature underneath, a kind of self-esteem and self-improvement program to discover the...

• Diserner
• Replies: 302
• Forum: Original Sin

 

[jeremiah1five]

For a more Biblical view see here:

Jesus fulfilled the Law.
The Law mandated a sacrifice to atone yearly for the sins of the children of Israel.
Jesus was sacrificed by God to atone eternally and finally for the sins of the children of Israel.
Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken" and as far as Jesus dying as mandated for the sins of the children of Israel this was done in keeping with the Law of Moses.
Thus, Jesus died for the sins of the children of Israel and only for the sins of the children of Israel.
That's it.

The Holy Spirit of Promise was promised to Israel.
The Holy Spirit of Promise when He arrived was given to three thousand Jews on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest.
Acts 2:47 says Jesus Christ added to His Church daily such [Jews] as should be saved. Every day after that Jesus added thousands of Jews to His Church daily. On one day Jesus Christ added five thousand Jews to His Church. The true Church of Jesus Christ was populated by Jews as Promised by Christ.
That's it.

God never promised His Spirit to [non-Hebrew] Gentiles. God never made covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
Thus, non-Hebrew Gentiles are outside the covenants of God and do not receive the Spirit of Promise and as result are outside the gifts of God given to the children of Israel.
Non-Hebrew Gentiles are not the seed of Abraham. They are the seed of Ham and Japheth. The Lord knows them that are His.

 

[Keiw1]

Gentiles are to be distinguished from Jews in that they “do not have the law” (Rom. 2:14).
Therefore, Gentiles are said to be “without the law” (Rom. 2:12).
When Saul thinks of those who have the law (Jews) and those who do not have the law (Gentiles), he distinguishes between sin and transgression.
Gentiles, even though they do not possess the law, still sin. “All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law” (Rom. 2:12).
Transgression can be distinguished from sin, for “where there is no law there is no transgression” (Rom. 4:15). If we adopt this distinction, Gentiles did not transgress the law, for they did not have the written law. But even though they did not transgress a written law, they still sinned, in that they violated the will of God. Similarly, Saul argues that those who lived between the time of Adam and the time of Moses sinned, even if they did not transgress a specifically revealed commandment as Adam did or as the Israelites did under the Mosaic covenant (Rom. 5:14).

The doctrine of the "Fall" in Christianity is a core belief rooted in the biblical story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Here's a breakdown:

The Story

• God creates Adam and Eve, placing them in a perfect paradise, the Garden of Eden.
• God gives them one prohibition: they cannot eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
• A serpent tempts Eve, suggesting that eating from the tree will make them like God, knowing good and evil.
• Eve eats the fruit and then gives some to Adam, who also eats it.
• Immediately, they realize they are naked and become ashamed, recognizing their vulnerability and imperfection.
• God expels them from the Garden, changing their relationship with Him and the world around them.

Interpretations and Significance

• Original Sin: Many Christians believe the Fall introduced sin into the world, corrupting human nature. This concept is known as Original Sin, suggesting all humans are born with a tendency towards sin.
• Loss of Innocence: The Fall represents the loss of humanity's original state of innocence and harmony with God. It marks the beginning of suffering, pain, and death in the world.
• Free Will: The story highlights the importance of free will. Adam and Eve had the choice to obey or disobey God, and their decision had significant consequences.
• Separation from God: The Fall resulted in a separation between humanity and God. This separation is seen as the root of human suffering and the need for redemption.

No doubt the doctrine of a "Fall" has permeated all of Christianity since the beginning but as I have shown there does not need to be a prohibition of a sin or transgression of God's Law for there to be a sin or transgression as Saul eloquently states in Romans 5:14.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Rom. 5:14.

How can there be a "Fall" which is identified and counted as such in their eating of the forbidden tree? "As saith the ancients, wickedness comes from the wicked" (1 Sam. 24:13) which is the same as saying "sin comes from sinner." So, what was Adam and the woman's sin before they ate from the tree? Only this: They added to God's Word(s).

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

By adding to God's Word(s) Adam and thew woman prove themselves as liars as defined by Proverbs and thus were sinners who sinned, and their second sin was in eating from the forbidden tree:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Genesis 3:3.

Adding to God's Word(s) prove Adam and the woman were sinners before their eating from the tree thus destroying the doctrine of a "Fall" which has historically been wrapped around the belief that eating from the tree was their first sin which caused a "Fall" from grace (or sinlessness, or holiness, or innocence.) Sin cannot come from holiness or sinlessness, which is the traditional belief in Christendom. How can there be a "Fall" from grace when they were not in grace to begin with? Doesn't Proverbs say "adding to God's Word(s) is lying"?

22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: Proverbs 12:22.

So, how can one defend a "Fall" from grace in eating from the forbidden tree when Adam and the woman were liars to begin with? There was no "Fall" in the garden but two sinners who added to God's Word(s): "neither shall ye touch it" proving that sin comes from sinner just as "wickedness proceedeth from the wicked" (1 Sam. 24:13.)

With using their free will( in a perfect state of being) they chose to rebel. Issues were raised by satan against Gods Sovereignty. Then again by satan concerning Job( which now makes every mortal apart of it). One must choose now to do Jesus' Fathers will( Matt 7:21) over self in this satan ruled system of things. Yes they fell, What a serious mistake. Gods kingdom rule will cure it all.

 

[jeremiah1five]

With using their free will( in a perfect state of being) they chose to rebel. Issues were raised by satan against Gods Sovereignty. Then again by satan concerning Job( which now makes every mortal apart of it). One must choose now to do Jesus' Fathers will( Matt 7:21) over self in this satan ruled system of things. Yes they fell, What a serious mistake. Gods kingdom rule will cure it all.

IF they were "perfect" they would not have sinned.

Besides this, Peter says the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Peter 2:4.

I bet you also believe "sons of God" in Genesis 6 refers to angels, too, huh?

Doesn't anyone ever study under the anointing or do they just regurgitate what they read in books?

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Samuel 24:12–13.

This is the same thing as saying, "sin comes from sinner." So, man was created a sinner. He sinned. Sin comes from sinner.

 

[Keiw1]

IF they were "perfect" they would not have sinned.

Besides this, Peter says the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Peter 2:4.

I bet you also believe "sons of God" in Genesis 6 refers to angels, too, huh?

Doesn't anyone ever study under the anointing or do they just regurgitate what they read in books?

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Samuel 24:12–13.

This is the same thing as saying, "sin comes from sinner." So, man was created a sinner. He sinned. Sin comes from sinner.

They have-FREE WILL. So yes any created being can use that free will to sin.

 

[jeremiah1five]

They have-FREE WILL. So yes any created being can use that free will to sin.

They have a sin nature too. So, their will is in bondage to their nature. In other words, they do not have free will. A leopard cannot change its spots. The nature of a chicken is to eat seed not meat. The lion's nature is to eat meat, not seed. Therefore, man was created sinful and as a sinner he sinned because sin comes from sinner; sin does not come from sinless. The last Adam, Jesus Christ, proved this. Man was created sinful. He sinned because he is a sinner; he is not a sinner because he sinned. This would destroy the Doctrine of Imputation. But I doubt you even understand this, too.

 

[Keiw1]

They have a sin nature too. So, their will is in bondage to their nature. In other words, they do not have free will. A leopard cannot change its spots. The nature of a chicken is to eat seed not meat. The lion's nature is to eat meat, not seed. Therefore, man was created sinful and as a sinner he sinned because sin comes from sinner; sin does not come from sinless. The last Adam, Jesus Christ, proved this. Man was created sinful. He sinned because he is a sinner; he is not a sinner because he sinned. This would destroy the Doctrine of Imputation. But I doubt you even understand this, too.

The fact Jesus and all other angels in good standing -CHOSE with their free will to walk the correct path, proves your reasoning is not correct. They can choose to sin but they don't. And yes most mortals choose with their free will to sin. But the true followers live now to do Jesus' Fathers will( Matt 7:21) over self. They learn what Gods written word teaches that the Father will not accept, and with best of their ability stop doing those things. Sadly Jesus teaches, FEW will find the road that leads off into life. He teaches These last days will be like Noah's day( 99.9% mislead)( Luke 17:26) This world needs to take a step back and look closely.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The fact Jesus and all other angels in good standing -CHOSE with their free will to walk the correct path, proves your reasoning is not correct. They can choose to sin but they don't. And yes most mortals choose with their free will to sin. But the true followers live now to do Jesus' Fathers will( Matt 7:21) over self. They learn what Gods written word teaches that the Father will not accept, and with best of their ability stop doing those things. Sadly Jesus teaches, FEW will find the road that leads off into life. He teaches These last days will be like Noah's day( 99.9% mislead)( Luke 17:26) This world needs to take a step back and look closely.

I prefer to believe that the angels were also created sinful like man was and that God is restraining them from sinning in which case He would have to do something about it.
No one has free will. Not even God has free will. He has only one will: good.
And man's will is as Jesus stated:

24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
John 2:24–25.

This means man is sinful through and through and his will is affected by his sinful nature that he cannot do that which he should do.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Romans 7:14–18.

As God said:

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Genesis 6:5.

Continually.

So, by having such a sinful nature nothing that man does passes for righteousness in God's eyes. Man's so called good deeds even from a benevolent will is as filthy rags. You've bought into the false teaching that man is worthy.
He is not. He's worthy of only death and eternal separation from God and that unless God does something about it -like dispatch the Spirit to him/her to be saved they will never be saved.
Man is passive in his salvation. Once the Holy Spirit INVADES a life and saves them no amount of will, will cause God to respond to any man because salvation is OF THE LORD - it is NOT of man.

 

[Keiw1]

I prefer to believe that the angels were also created sinful like man was and that God is restraining them from sinning in which case He would have to do something about it.
No one has free will. Not even God has free will. He has only one will: good.
And man's will is as Jesus stated:

24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
John 2:24–25.

This means man is sinful through and through and his will is affected by his sinful nature that he cannot do that which he should do.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Romans 7:14–18.

As God said:

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Genesis 6:5.

Continually.

So, by having such a sinful nature nothing that man does passes for righteousness in God's eyes. Man's so called good deeds even from a benevolent will is as filthy rags. You've bought into the false teaching that man is worthy.
He is not. He's worthy of only death and eternal separation from God and that unless God does something about it -like dispatch the Spirit to him/her to be saved they will never be saved.
Man is passive in his salvation. Once the Holy Spirit INVADES a life and saves them no amount of will, will cause God to respond to any man because salvation is OF THE LORD - it is NOT of man.

All through the history of mortals= 99% mislead throughout the bible. The only other possible time = when Israel stood strong for Jehovah, and relied on him.
I would say when the Israelites were facing the red sea and pharoah and army behind them. Imagine it looked like no way out, fear was probably over taking many. Yet Jehovah showed the world, he is the true living God, and saved the Israelites. I didn't say man was worthy. It is God who deems some as righteous-These live to do Jesus' Fathers will( Matthew 7:21) over self in this satan ruled system. Just as Jesus does=always the Fathers will. Why? Because God is always correct. He tells us things that benefit our lives now and hopefully in his kingdom.
All the religions claiming to be Christian claim to have holy spirit, yet its a mass of confusion-

 

[jeremiah1five]

All through the history of mortals= 99% mislead throughout the bible. The only other possible time = when Israel stood strong for Jehovah, and relied on him.
I would say when the Israelites were facing the red sea and pharoah and army behind them. Imagine it looked like no way out, fear was probably over taking many. Yet Jehovah showed the world, he is the true living God, and saved the Israelites. I didn't say man was worthy. It is God who deems some as righteous-These live to do Jesus' Fathers will( Matthew 7:21) over self in this satan ruled system. Just as Jesus does=always the Fathers will. Why? Because God is always correct. He tells us things that benefit our lives now and hopefully in his kingdom.
All the religions claiming to be Christian claim to have holy spirit, yet its a mass of confusion-

God deems no one as worthy of salvation for all our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Unless God acts, then all mankind is lost and forever separated from God. But God sent His Son, made under the Law, to redeem those who were under the Law, meaning the Jews.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.

As High Priest Jesus Christ did not pray for the non-Hebrew Gentile world at a time when as Christ sanctifies Himnself for the offering He is preparing in Himself, He should have prayed for the world, but He didn't because the world was never under the Law nor in any of the Hebrew covenants.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. John 17:9.

As Christ sanctifies Himself in preparation for His sacrifice to God the time to pray for the world of unbelieving, unsanctified, non-covenant, uncircumcised idol-worshiping people of the world, the time to pray for them was right NOW hours before going to His cross. But He didn't. And on the cross Christ targets the people for whom God is to forgive based upon the sacrifice of the Son when He says, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

In that moment, when He could hold for no longer, He died in obedience to God and for the children of Israel.

 

[brightfame52]

In that moment, when He could hold for no longer, He died in obedience to God and for the children of Israel.

The body of Christ, Spiritual Israel, all whom He saved and gave Faith, Faith is the evidence of being Abrahams Spiritual seed,

Gal 3:8-9

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Rom 3:30

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Thats the seed of Israel Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The body of Christ, Spiritual Israel, all whom He saved and gave Faith, Faith is the evidence of being Abrahams Spiritual seed,

The body of Christ is the same as the "Great Congregation" in the Old Testament. One was natural, and the other is spiritual. And because Jesus is the body and Christ is the body natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel beginning on Pentecost when three thousand Jews were born-again spiritually. Thousands of Jews daily were being born again just as Christ promised in Acts 2:47.
Abraham was a natural, physical man and Christ came to redeem a natural physical man and his seed in order to make them spiritual men and women of God in Christ.
Jesus was promised to Israel and to Israel He came. He died under the Law to redeem the people who were under the Law and that people were the Hebrews/Jews. The animal sacrifice was slain to atone for the sins of the children of Israel under the Law. Jesus, as God's Lamb, was slain in accordance with the Law and in fulfillment of the Law to atone for the sins of the children of Israel just as the animal sacrificed was to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. It is contained in the Hebrew Scripture. The Hebrew Scripture is the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. Jesus was promised to the Jews and to the Jews He came.

Gal 3:8-9

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Rom 3:30

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Thats the seed of Israel Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

The heathen are identified as Jews of the Diaspora and exile who remained in Gentile lands living as Gentiles heavily influenced by Greek culture. And because these mixed heritage Jews lived for 29-35 generations of Jewish offspring growing up in Gentile lands the Jews in Israel called the "Gentile" because they actually did live as Gentiles in Gentile lands. God sent Jesus to die for them because no matter the dilution of Gentile stock, if they are of Abraham's seed and DNA they are Abraham's descendants and heirs according to the promise.

For nearly five centuries God had been dealing with a people that were obedient to Him and who were in relationship with Him. God dealt with the Hebrew people for over two thousand years, sent Moses to them to deliver them out of bondage, and for nearly two thousand years animal sacrifices were offered to God to atone the sins of the children of Israel. Jesus came as promised to the children of Israel as God's Lamb and personal sacrifice to finally and eternally die for the sins of the children of Israel. For nearly five thousand years God is working to deliver and redeem the Hebrew people and after Jesus ascends His first words in this New Covenant is to Gentiles???

Under the Law the animals were sacrificed to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. Jesus was sent - and like the animals that were sacrificed under the Law - Jesus died to atone for the sins of the children of Israel in a New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah and fulfilled by Jesus Christ. To teach Jesus died for Gentiles is to teach Jesus changed the Law which means Jesus destroyed the Law and this makes Jesus a transgressor. Who will God send to atone for the sins of Jesus that sinner!?

But that is what you teach.

 

[brightfame52]

The body of Christ is the same as the "Great Congregation" in the Old Testament. One was natural, and the other is spiritual. And because Jesus is the body and Christ is the body natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel beginning on Pentecost when three thousand Jews were born-again spiritually. Thousands of Jews daily were being born again just as Christ promised in Acts 2:47.
Abraham was a natural, physical man and Christ came to redeem a natural physical man and his seed in order to make them spiritual men and women of God in Christ.
Jesus was promised to Israel and to Israel He came. He died under the Law to redeem the people who were under the Law and that people were the Hebrews/Jews. The animal sacrifice was slain to atone for the sins of the children of Israel under the Law. Jesus, as God's Lamb, was slain in accordance with the Law and in fulfillment of the Law to atone for the sins of the children of Israel just as the animal sacrificed was to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. It is contained in the Hebrew Scripture. The Hebrew Scripture is the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. Jesus was promised to the Jews and to the Jews He came.

The heathen are identified as Jews of the Diaspora and exile who remained in Gentile lands living as Gentiles heavily influenced by Greek culture. And because these mixed heritage Jews lived for 29-35 generations of Jewish offspring growing up in Gentile lands the Jews in Israel called the "Gentile" because they actually did live as Gentiles in Gentile lands. God sent Jesus to die for them because no matter the dilution of Gentile stock, if they are of Abraham's seed and DNA they are Abraham's descendants and heirs according to the promise.

For nearly five centuries God had been dealing with a people that were obedient to Him and who were in relationship with Him. God dealt with the Hebrew people for over two thousand years, sent Moses to them to deliver them out of bondage, and for nearly two thousand years animal sacrifices were offered to God to atone the sins of the children of Israel. Jesus came as promised to the children of Israel as God's Lamb and personal sacrifice to finally and eternally die for the sins of the children of Israel. For nearly five thousand years God is working to deliver and redeem the Hebrew people and after Jesus ascends His first words in this New Covenant is to Gentiles???

Under the Law the animals were sacrificed to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. Jesus was sent - and like the animals that were sacrificed under the Law - Jesus died to atone for the sins of the children of Israel in a New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah and fulfilled by Jesus Christ. To teach Jesus died for Gentiles is to teach Jesus changed the Law which means Jesus destroyed the Law and this makes Jesus a transgressor. Who will God send to atone for the sins of Jesus that sinner!?

But that is what you teach.

Whoever has faith in Christ is Israel no matter of their ethnicity and the heirs

 

[jeremiah1five]

Whoever has faith in Christ is Israel no matter of their ethnicity and the heirs

Only natural Olive tree Israel can become spiritual Olive tree Israel.
A non-Hebrew Gentile cannot be born from two Hebrew parents.
Two German parents cannot birth a Mexican child.
What kind of crazy zoo are you operating?

 

[brightfame52]

Only natural Olive tree Israel can become spiritual Olive tree Israel.
A non-Hebrew Gentile cannot be born from two Hebrew parents.
Two German parents cannot birth a Mexican child.
What kind of crazy zoo are you operating?

Whoever has faith in Christ is Israel no matter of their ethnicity and the heirs, see Faith makes it manifest that one is Abrahams spiritual children, no matter the ethnicity. Spiritual children arent born of blood, will of the flesh or of man but of God Jn 1:13

 

[jeremiah1five]

Whoever has faith in Christ is Israel no matter of their ethnicity and the heirs, see Faith makes it manifest that one is Abrahams spiritual children, no matter the ethnicity. Spiritual children arent born of blood, will of the flesh or of man but of God Jn 1:13

That's the Gentile response. Ever since the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple by the Romans their war with Israel ended the "ism" of Judaism. And because of the inclusion of mixed heritage Jews who were for the most part grew up as Gentile in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture they were seen by the Romans as Gentiles who talked, dressed, acted like Gentiles and because of their ignorance of Hebrew religion, Scripture, culture, the Jewish Church of the first century after Israel's destruction was left in charge of these mixed heritage Gentiles and then the Jewish Church took on a "Gentile" flavor that continued into the centuries after that.

The Church Jesus promised to build began on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest in which three thousand JEWS were born-again, filled with the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL by Joel, and every day after that thousands of Jews were being born-again and baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ.

Then came the fact of mixed heritage Jews being-born again which led to the Jerusalem Council described in Acts 15 circa AD 50. These were Jews of mixed race (Gentile) who were as God promised the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise (Gal. 3:28-29.) This is how Saul described these mixed race Jews:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Ephesians 2:11–12.

Because of the Jewish Diaspora which is the historical dispersal of the Jewish people from their ancestral homeland in Israel to communities around the world beginning with the Assyrian Conquest and Exile of 722 BC, Jews were taken captive (Daniel is one example - Babylonian Conquest 586 BC) and removed to Gentile lands. Many fled into nearby Gentile communities and remained in exile despite a remnant being allowed by king Cyrus to return to Jerusalem and rebuild their nation, a majority of Jews remained where they lived in exile. They were still the seed of Abraham and God had promises to keep towards Abraham (Gen. 17:7), and as these Gentile-frown Jews began to be born-again there were Jews who were ready to accept them back into the commonwealth of Israel if they would be circumcised. Saul understood this controversy and argued against circumcision. The disciples asked this question be taken to the apostles and elders which led to the Jerusalem Council. How do I know these were mixed race Jews? Because no Jew would ever seek to circumcise non-Hebrew Gentiles nor to place them under instruction of the Law:

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Acts 15:28–29.

Currently the apostles and Jewish Christians as a whole enjoyed good relations with Jews and the elders of the Sanhedrin (Acts 6:7), because while they testified of Jesus being their Promised Messiah they remained obedient to the Law of Moses and there is nowhere in the Law of Moses where non-Hebrew Gentiles were part of their covenants - especially the Abrahamic Covenant to whom God made promises to Abraham and his seed (Gen. 17:7.)
Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit of Promise, and the New Covenant era Israel was in was exclusively elements of a covenant God made with the Hebrew people. There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of these Hebrew covenants. God made no promises to non-Hebrew Gentiles and non-Hebrew Gentiles for the most part were enemies of Israel - Roman company included.

 

[brightfame52]

That's the Gentile response.

Its apostles doctrine, that's the NT Authority, who interpret the OT prophets Eph 2:20

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Acts 2:42

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

The Apostle Paul, by Jesus Christ, states it clearly Gal 3 7-8

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Now the children of Abraham and Israel are One ! Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed[Israel], and heirs according to the promise.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Its apostles doctrine, that's the NT Authority, who interpret the OT prophets Eph 2:20

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Acts 2:42

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

The Apostle Paul, by Jesus Christ, states it clearly Gal 3 7-8

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Now the children of Abraham and Israel are One ! Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed[Israel], and heirs according to the promise.

Because of those Gentile theology books you read your comment is only a regurgitation of what you read in those books and you don't rely only upon the Word of God. You rely on other people's bible studies and not on Scripture itself.

The apostle's doctrine is the same doctrine Jesus taught them. And Jesus taught them the Law and the Prophets.
Thus, the apostle's doctrine is the Law and the Prophets as understood by the Acts of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL (Joel), which Spirit is also following the Law and the Prophets but with Spirit illumination to understand the spirit of the Law and the Prophets. One example is their understanding the shewbread in the Tabernacle represented Jesus the Christ as the Bread of Life. Another is Jesus calling Himself the Light of the world (of Hebrews) because the candlesticks in the Tabernacle can only be understood as written in the Law and the Law was given to Israel and NOT the Gentile world. What you are doing is taking Hebrew religion and culture and making it to fit a Gentile meaning, a meaning that has no real biblical basis for Gentiles were never in the Abraham Covenant, Gentiles were never under the Law of Moses, and the Mosaic Covenant did not include non-Hebrew Gentiles.

Your quoting Galatians 3:28-29 for instance, refers to Jew who were born again and new followers of Christ who were concerned with their standing in the Abraham Covenant promises. Saul tells these Jewish Christians that is they are (now) in Christ that nothing has changed, they are STILL Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promises given to Abraham. You're taking words meant for Jews and Jewish Christians and changing them to apply to non-Hebrew Gentiles when Gentiles were NEVER included in the Abraham Covenant because Gentiles do not come from Abraham's seed, they were already in existence and born from the seed of Ham and Japheth. But that is the error of Gentiles and their Gentile-mindset changing everything Jewish and making them Gentile, such as the addressees of the epistles in the New Testament bible which was put together by Gentiles without God's permission or authority.
The epistles themselves were written - at least the originals were - by Jewish Christians under the anointing of the Spirit who wrote to Jews and Jewish Christians in Israel and scattered across the Gentile world (Corinth, Ephesus, etc.), which held explanation and discussion of the New Covenant era Israel found herself in when the Holy Spirit came down from God and the New Covenant era began with Jews left to search the Old Testament Law and the Prophets (and Psalms) in order to interpret clues, prophecies, and promises by God to Israel through the prophets of Israel who wrote things of the Spirit that were understood by Jews absent the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Those were things written in the Law and the Prophets that even the prophets themselves sought to investigate to understand the real meaning behind the things they said and wrote in their prophecies to Israel.

The Holy Spirit was promised to Israel. The Jews knew that. But you are taking their prophecies and their promises and re-interpreting them to apply to Gentiles. They were NEVER promised or prophesied for Gentiles.

Moses prophesied a prophet like him that God would raise up from among the Hebrew tribes.

15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; Deuteronomy 18:15.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Deuteronomy 18:18.

Moses was speaking to the Hebrew people when this was promised by God a Deliverer "like unto Moses" that God would raise up to deliver Israel from their enemies, spiritual and physical enemies. Moses wasn't speaking to Gentiles in what he said in Deuteronomy, nor in the other four books of the Pentateuch.

John the Baptist was given the ministry of announcing Israel's Promised One to Israel. This is why there is no one greater and yet the least is greater than him.

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
John 1:31.

This lamb of God was not sent to Gentiles. He was sent to Israel in fulfillment of God's promise through Moses as recorded in Deuteronomy. As a rabbi Jesus taught the Hebrew/Jews the Law and the Prophets with Psalms mixed in. It was Hebrew through and through, NOT Gentile. Jesus came in fulfillment of Moses' promises and those promises were given to Israel of twelve tribes. The "Old Testament" was spoken, written, given to Israel. There is nothing Gentile in these "books" of the Old Testament. But Gentiles take them, change this here and that there, and voila! Everything Hebrew is now changed by Gentiles to reflect a Gentile-included salvation never given to them because they were never under the Law of God and the Mosaic Covenant of the Pentateuch. If the Old Testament recorded a Gentile-inclusion into the covenants God would have said so. They would all have to be circumcised if they were even included in the Abraham Covenant, but God promised Gentiles NOTHING! His attitude against Gentiles who are Israel's enemy is clear:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

While God promised Gentiles nothing, He promised Israel everything. The totality of God's salvation and deliverance is described right here:

4 Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth
the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all,
God blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 9:4–5.

The adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; all belonged to Israel.
Not Gentiles.
ISRAEL!
Get a clue.

 

[brightfame52]

Because of those Gentile theology books you read your comment is only a regurgitation of what you read in those books and you don't rely only upon the Word of God. You rely on other people's bible studies and not on Scripture itself.

The Church that belongs to Christ is Israel to which all the promises were made. The promises were never made to national ethnic israel, but to the election of grace Israel, a remnant within the nation.