Why The Trinity is Wrong: Language Usage

[synergy]

Guess there is where I am one up with you brother-I have a gift for languages.
Try and study Isaiah 53 with the Syntax-using Hebrew and rabbinical sources and see what our Lord Jesus Christ endured, voluntary.

The origin of the Septuagint
Prehistory of the Translation Work
An understanding of the situation in Alexandria, Egypt in the 3rd century BC is foundational to comprehending the origin of the LXX.6 There was a concentration of Jews living in Alexandria, Egypt in the few hundred years before Christ.

In Egypt a knowledge of Greek was not a mere luxury but a necessity of daily life.7 For Barclay, the production of the LXX exemplifies the rapidity of Hellenization of Alexandrian Jews; the Hebrew Scriptures “looked disappointingly ‘barbaic’ from their Hellenizing perspective.”8 The repercussions for Jewish religious life were significant, especially since much of the Jewish population had lost their Hebrew.9 Bickerman reveals the implications regarding Judaism’s liturgical worship style:

It is most likely that in the Alexandrian synagogue a dragoman standing beside the reader translated the lesson into Greek. . . . under the conditions of book making in antiquity, it would be a fantastic waste of money and labor to translate, copy and recopy the whole Pentateuch in order to provide help for an occasional oral translation of isolated passages of the Torah.10

Bickerman has argued that the LXX may have been birthed in Jewish centres of learning in Egypt through such oral translation.11 Translation into Greek was a common phenomenon in Hellenistic Egypt.12 Aristobulus, the first known Jewish philosopher, wrote that “older partial translations had already been read by Pythagoras and Plato”13 thereby giving credence to the idea that the LXX was not the first attempt made at translating the Hebrew into Greek, highlighting the demand for translation work in the diaspora.14 The situation at Alexandria was unique in that it provided the ideal scenario in which to introduce a translation of the Hebrew scriptures, especially of the most liturgically and socially significant portions of the Hebrew scriptures. Still, consensus on any one theory of origin has proven elusive. Herewith, we touch upon two related but distinct questions: what motivated the translation and in what textual form would the translation have originated?

Theories of Origin: Motives
The needs of the diaspora for an understandable translation of their scriptures is just one of the many factors leading to the origin of the LXX. Various theories of origin have sought to pinpoint the main reason for its production. Five of these are worth brief consideration at this point.

The Letter of Aristeas
The first theory is based upon the Letter of Aristeas, otherwise called Pseudo-Aristeas.15 This letter, considered a “primary source”16 for the origin of the LXX, is included among the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha and was probably written around 150-100 BC.17 The letter contains a description of the circumstances surrounding the origin of the LXX, along with other irrelevant information. Demetrius, the chief librarian of Ptolemy II (285-247 BC), suggested to the king that he add the Jewish Law to his famous and expansive collection of books.18 The king had assigned Demetrius the task of collecting all the known books in the world, and Demetrius thought that a copy of the Law of the Jews should be included. The king was persuaded, and envoys headed to Palestine. Seventy-two translators were sent by the high priest in Jerusalem to Ptolemy along with Torah scrolls from the Temple. After a fruitful meeting with the king, the translators were escorted off to comfortable quarters on an island. Seventy-two days later the translators emerged with their work, which was completely without error and in total agreement. The Jewish people in the area rejoiced and accepted it as divine scripture, and the translators were sent home bearing gifts.19
The origin of the Septuagint

Shalom
J.

Thanks alot for that information. Looks like the "miracle" of the formation of the Septuagint was Preordained by God. The LXX proved itself a vital link between the Hebrew Text and the Greek Koine NT.

 

[civic]

Did you know flat earth is "highly debated."

LOL.

Anymore strawmans for today lol.

 

[Wrangler]

Only the one Lord of Deuteronomy 6:4 is the receive latreuō (Deuteronomy 6:13; cf. Luke 4:8).

No. See Ps 110:1. See John 17:3. See John 20:17.

In reference to Luke 4:8, Jesus tells us to worship God and serve only Him (referring to YHWH) - not "me" referring to Jesus.

 

[Diserner]

Your comments show you have not studied it under Judaism, I have.

hope this helps !!!

Uh, they hate Christ.

They make every verse be as far away from Christ as possible.

That's not "debate" that's "bias."

 

[Wrangler]

I don't see it as a requirement for salvation.

There are quire a few Trinitarians who don't see it as a requirement.

Then why do trinitarians make it seem like it is the central message of the Bible? Why did they exile, take all the property and kill Arians in the 4th century over it?

 

[civic]

In Judaism Israel not messiah is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53 @dizerner . But I’m sure you will laugh out loud and dismiss that fact in Judaism as well. @Johann will confirm it’s true

hope this helps !!!

 

[Fred]

In reference to Luke 4:8, Jesus tells us to worship God and serve only Him (referring to YHWH) - not "me" referring to Jesus.

Jesus can speak of "God" (Luke 16:15) in reference to Himself because Jesus fully knows the hearts of all.
So that argument of yours fails.

One of the ways of rendering latreuō (due "only" unto the one Lord of Deuteronomy 6:4) is by prayers (Luke 2:37).

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus can speak of "God"

You are not understanding language usage. Jesus said in John 20:17 that the Father IS his God. By contrast, it is Jesus who is described to be OF God - son, word, servant, priest, prophet, image, form, etc.

No one uses language to say someone is a servant of themselves. So, why is Jesus called a servant OF God rather than "is?" Because he is NOT God but OF God. Language usage.

 

[Fred]

You are not understanding language usage. Jesus said in John 20:17

You dodged Luke 16:15.

Come on back to it and stop hiding.

 

[Diserner]

Then why do trinitarians make it seem like it is the central message of the Bible? Why did they exile, take all the property and kill Arians in the 4th century over it?

Well, careful not to constantly lump people together.

Sometimes the more "vocal" of a group gets more attention/interaction.

 

[Diserner]

In Judaism Israel not messiah is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53 @dizerner . But I’m sure you will laugh out loud and dismiss that fact in Judaism as well. @Johann will confirm it’s true

hope this helps !!!

In "Judaism" there is a multitude of views, not just one.

Which if you had really "studied" as you claim to, then you would already know that.

Now find me one single prominent Christian commentator who says Isaiah 53 is not about Christ.

Since it's "highly debatable" and all.

 

[synergy]

Then why do trinitarians make it seem like it is the central message of the Bible? Why did they exile, take all the property and kill Arians in the 4th century over it?

Not one of us Trinitarians have asked for your address in order to confiscate it because of your beliefs.The Bible doesn't promote that form of behavior. That was a different time and place then. Get over it.

Believe in Christ and you will be saved (Rom 10:8-18). Simple as that. Why does this group care so much to defend Trinitarianism? Because it should be the right Christ you're believing and the Bible reveals Him.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing what is told, and hearing through the message about Christ.

(Belief you see, can only come from hearing the message, and the message is the word of Christ.)

Then faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the Word of YAHWEH.

Word of God (ῥήματος Θεοῦ)
The best texts read of Christ. Probably not the Gospel, but Christ's word of command or commission to its preachers; thus taking up except they be sent (Rom_10:15), and emphasizing the authority of the message. Belief comes through the message, and the message through the command of Christ.
MV

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "God's message is close to you, on your very lips and in your heart"; that is, the message about faith which we preach.

First, the epistle to Rome is sent to believers who are saved.
Second, the Church is made up of both "Jews" and Gentiles, but Paul's message is sent to "Jewish" believers.
Third, since Paul is addressing "Jewish" believers at Rome he brings up Old Testament passages that the "Jews" would understand, and his purpose is not to introduce a salvation formula but to encourage the people of God in their faith.
When Christ sent out His apostles before His ascension their mission was to herald the arrival (and departure) of Israel's Messiah to the twelve tribes that were scattered through the then-known world that God has kept His Promise and Israel's King and Messiah had indeed come. Later, as churches/fellowships were founded by believers the message of Israel's Messiah began to filter to Gentiles. But at the beginning God's message was to His people Israel.

It is my firm belief that we should study the Scriptures and IF God send-proclaim the D'var of Christ and His Imperatives to a lost and dying world.
Johann.

The message and Gospel of God is not to a lost, dying world, but an elect people that will be called out of the world by God. His message and His word will go out and do what it was sent to do and not come back void.
But let God determine those things for salvation is of the Lord, not men. And at the appointed time God will send those who have been commissioned to such ministry. In the meantime, take care of your own business and always be ready to give an answer to those that ask of the hope in you with meekness and fear.
And if they're not asking then say nothing.
Live your life as a living epistle to be read of men.
But leave the ministry of who goes where and who says what to God. It's His Gospel so let Him place in the body of Christ those whom He will and let them so gifted and commanded to their calling.
After all, we are not all apostles.
Nor are we all evangelists.

 

[civic]

In "Judaism" there is a multitude of views, not just one.

Which if you had really "studied" as you claim to, then you would already know that.

Now find me one single prominent Christian commentator who says Isaiah 53 is not about Christ.

Since it's "highly debatable" and all.

Who is God’s Suffering Servant? The Rabbinic Interpretation of Isaiah 53 - Outreach Judaism

Despite strong objections from conservative Christian apologists, the prevailing rabbinic interpretation of Isaiah 53 ascribes the “servant” to the nation of Israel [...]

outreachjudaism.org

 

[synergy]

First, the epistle to Rome is sent to believers who are saved.
Second, the Church is made up of both "Jews" and Gentiles, but Paul's message is sent to "Jewish" believers.
Third, since Paul is addressing "Jewish" believers at Rome he brings up Old Testament passages that the "Jews" would understand, and his purpose is not to introduce a salvation formula but to encourage the people of God in their faith.
When Christ sent out His apostles before His ascension their mission was to herald the arrival (and departure) of Israel's Messiah to the twelve tribes that were scattered through the then-known world that God has kept His Promise and Israel's King and Messiah had indeed come. Later, as churches/fellowships were founded by believers the message of Israel's Messiah began to filter to Gentiles. But at the beginning God's message was to His people Israel.

The message and Gospel of God is not to a lost, dying world, but an elect people that will be called out of the world by God. His message and His word will go out and do what it was sent to do and not come back void.
But let God determine those things for salvation is of the Lord, not men. And at the appointed time God will send those who have been commissioned to such ministry. In the meantime, take care of your own business and always be ready to give an answer to those that ask of the hope in you with meekness and fear.
And if they're not asking then say nothing.
Live your life as a living epistle to be read of men.
But leave the ministry of who goes where and who says what to God. It's His Gospel so let Him place in the body of Christ those whom He will and let them so gifted and commanded to their calling.
After all, we are not all apostles.
Nor are we all evangelists.

I started my Christian path in Evangelical circles so I believe all believers can and should evangelize given the proper circumstances to do so. Thats important because one's Election and Predestination is active only after coming to faith. You inherit election from Christ only when "in Christ" Who is the Elect One.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I know trinitarians believe in the trinity. My point is the trinity is not in Scripture. There simply is no verse that spells it out as a requirement for salvation like trinitarians suppose.

I don't see God spelling out much of anything to those that can't read.
The word "trinity" is not in Scripture, but the concept is.
The Trinity of God did not find its fullest expression until the Advent of the Son.

 

[Diserner]

Who is God’s Suffering Servant? The Rabbinic Interpretation of Isaiah 53 - Outreach Judaism

Despite strong objections from conservative Christian apologists, the prevailing rabbinic interpretation of Isaiah 53 ascribes the “servant” to the nation of Israel [...]

outreachjudaism.org

You didn't even read that link, did you.

I'd bet you anything you didn't even read it, lol.

 

[civic]

You didn't even read that link, did you.

I'd bet you anything you didn't even read it, lol.

Read it all rofl

I’m waiting for the next strawman

 

[jeremiah1five]

I started my Christian path in Evangelical circles so I believe all believers can and should evangelize given the proper circumstances to do so.

The proper circumstances are when God instructs and commands His servant to do something. They will be equipped. But to take specifics in God's managing His own Gospel and generalizing it is error. Those that are called to a ministry let THEM minister and the rest get out of the way. We are not all evangelists in the body of Christ. Paul explains this in 1 Corinthians 12-14. There is also instruction in Acts 13:1-4.

Thats important because one's Election and Predestination is active only after coming to faith. You inherit election from Christ only when "in Christ" Who is the Elect One.

 

[synergy]

The proper circumstances are when God instructs and commands His servant to do something. They will be equipped. But to take specifics in God's managing His own Gospel and generalizing it is error. Those that are called to a ministry let THEM minister and the rest get out of the way. We are not all evangelists in the body of Christ. Paul explains this in 1 Corinthians 12-14. There is also instruction in Acts 13:1-4.

I agree that not everyone has the eloquence and knowledge to lead a congregation. But that doesn't mean that everyone gets out of the way, sits back, and becomes passive. I believe that God rewards those who energetically apply themselves to spread the kingdom of God. I am a big believer in a synergistic relationship with God. We stumble and fall many times but we brush ourselves off, learn, and do better next time. I am totally against a monergistic view of God.