Why The Trinity is Wrong: Juxtaposition

[101G]

There never has been a question of Jesus' deity. But from some of your comments it appears now that you are saying that the Father is not also deity, nor the Holy Spirit deity also. All three are the same deity.

let 101G make it clear, there is only "ONE" God, and this "ONE" God is only "ONE" person. the titles Father and Son are just that ..... "TITLES" of the ONE person God who is Holy and is Spirit. these title of the ONE person God is in "TIME", "PLACE", "ORDER", and "RANK".

to make it plain as DAY, the Lord JESUS .......... "THE CHRIST" ........... "MADE AND CREATED, NOTHING. but "JESUS" the Ordinal First did. do you understand 101G's Language?

101G.

 

[Behold]

it's a numerical two of "one" person in a "ECHAD" of equal Share. hence the "ONENESS" of God in an ECHAD of equal share of his "OWN" self. not two persons,

"Let US..... make man is OUR image."

Us = Our = 2.

That is The Father and the pre-incarnate Son, who "was God"... John 1.

 

[civic]

"Let US..... make man is OUR image."

Us = Our = 2.

That is The Father and the pre-incarnate Son, who "was God"... John 1.

What about the Holy Spirit whom Jesus said He would send in His place to be with them and in them(the disciples). The Advocate, the Helper, the Comforter ? Who would lead, teach, guide, speak, reveal, convict, listen, intercede, etc.......

 

[Behold]

What about the Holy Spirit whom Jesus said He would send in His place to be with them and in them(the disciples). The Advocate, the Helper, the Comforter ? Who would lead, teach, guide, speak, reveal, convict, listen, intercede, etc.......

Well, @101G was only discussing the 2 persons.

So, i showed Him the 2, as "us and our"

If you add the Holy Spirit then you have the Tripart God.

God in 3..

F-S-HS

And we, are made in that image.. as

Body
Soul
Spirit.

Man is 3, just as God is 3.

We live in a Body... We have a soul... We ARE a spirit.

 

[civic]

Well, @101G was only discussing the 2 persons.

So, i showed Him the 2, as "us and our"

If you add the Holy Spirit then you have the Tripart God.

God in 3..

F-S-HS

And we, are made in that image.. as

Body
Soul
Spirit.

Man is 3, just as God is 3.

We live in a Body... We have a soul... We ARE a spirit.

Thanks I didn't catch that since I didn't read through all of the posts.

 

[101G]

Already answered question.

which means you don't KNOW. ..... and you said,
Wrangler said:
Yes, it is one person who made male and female. Who are you presuming YHWH was speaking to

who, to HIMSELF that was to Come, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." .... see, 101G will answer, and with scripture to back up what he said, and never say, "already answered question." because when one do that, which only means they are not sure of themselves in their answer, and seeking for the answer..... (smile).

see, your presumption was flawed from the start. for there was no one else present who was in his "IMAGE" at the time he was Making Man, (which the very next verse, Genesis 1:27 bare out). what the Lord Jesus, God, spoke was prophetic of himself to come ........ in his OWN IMAGE, as a man.

this is basic bible study W, you should have known this.

101G.

 

[Behold]

Thanks I didn't catch that since I didn't read through all of the posts.

this Thread has 39 pages.

Im also not going to read all that.... as most of it is the same 2-3 reposting the same verses or online site as cut and paste" without any "" :"", or Greek and Hebrew cut and paste they can't actually read.
So,
I just go to the last page of a Thread, and find some error.., as its the same as the 1st Page, usually.

 

[civic]

this Thread has 39 pages.

Im also not going to read all that.... as most of it is the same 2-3 reposting the same verses or online site as cut and paste" without any "" :"", or Greek and Hebrew cut and paste they can't actually read.
So,
I just go to the last page of a Thread, and find some error.., as its the same as the 1st Page, usually.

I understand

 

[101G]

"Let US..... make man is OUR image."

Us = Our = 2.

That is The Father and the pre-incarnate Son, who "was God"... John 1.

ok, you believe the Lord Jesus correct. let's see how many PERSON(S) who is God was at Genesis 1:26. THIS IS THE Lord JESUS SPEAKING. let's pick it up at verse 3, Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"

did you hear the Lord JESUS who cannot LIE .... say he, he, he, in reference to God made man male and female in the beginning. and how do 101G know that the Lord Jesus was referring to God when he said, "he" (a single PERSON) made them male and female in the beginning. because we have Mark gospel to back us up, who recorded the SAME conversation. listen and Learn. Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female." so, the "he" in Matthews 19:4 is "GOD" who the Lord Jesus said is "ONE" person....... "he". behold, are you saying that the Lord Jesus LIED when he said, "he a single person, God made man male and female in the beginning? ... God forbid. is this what you're saying?

but note also. the Lord Jesus said it is written .... that HE... God, a single person made man Male and female in the beginning. let's see where it is written. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." well that's where it written right after Genesis 1:26, where your OUR and US are written.

now behold, are you going to believe the Lord Jesus who is God, and who cannot LIE, or .... are you ready to explain why God referred to himself as US and OUR when it was only HIM a single person who made them Male and female. ...... your answer please.

understand 101G can answer it, as well as the "WAS".... "WITH" ... God in John1:1 as ONE Single PERSON Only. if you don't KNOW.... Just ask.

101G.

 

[101G]

Well, @101G was only discussing the 2 persons.

So, i showed Him the 2, as "us and our"

If you add the Holy Spirit then you have the Tripart God.

God in 3..

F-S-HS

And we, are made in that image.. as

Body
Soul
Spirit.

Man is 3, just as God is 3.

We live in a Body... We have a soul... We ARE a spirit.

NONESENSE, 101G was never discussing any 2 persons, and especially not three.
@civic, let's clear up this Body, Soul, and Spirit.
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

these verses destroy any three-person(s) justification, just on their merit by themselves. notice, both scriptures states, "these ". not "THEY", which the term "They" indicate PERSONS, but the verses clear as day states, "these", which are things and NOT PERSONS that are named. the term these is opposed to those, as this is to that, and when two persons or things or collections of things are named, these refers to the things or persons which are nearest in place or order, or which are last mentioned. so these it's reference a "THINGS" or "PERSONS". so, let's see which, is which a thing or a Person. is "Father" a person, or a "TITLE" of, of, of, a PERSON? or "Word" is it a TITLE of, of, of, a Person? or Holy Ghost, is it a PERSON, or the TITLE of, of, of, a Person. see it now. if it was PERSON(S), then the verse would have said plainly, "THEY" three are one. or in the next verse, "THEY" three agree in one. for is blood a PERSON?, is water a PERSON? is spirit by it self a person? no none of .... "THESE" are PERSON, Titles are NOT PERSONS. they are IDENTIFERS of, of, of, the PERSON, and not the person it-self.

if the verses would have stated "THEY", are ONE, which indicates person(s) , then we all could pack up our bags and go home, because there would be no room for any further discussion. the case would be closed. but because the verses state "these" instead of "They" the case is not closed. for there is no reason to close it.

101G.

 

[Doug Brents]

let 101G make it clear, there is only "ONE" God, and this "ONE" God is only "ONE" person. the titles Father and Son are just that ..... "TITLES" of the ONE person God who is Holy and is Spirit. these title of the ONE person God is in "TIME", "PLACE", "ORDER", and "RANK".

to make it plain as DAY, the Lord JESUS .......... "THE CHRIST" ........... "MADE AND CREATED, NOTHING. but "JESUS" the Ordinal First did. do you understand 101G's Language?

101G.

What is the purpose behind you speaking of yourself in the third person? I am curious.

You are correct that there is only one God. "God" is the title. Father and Son are descriptors. And the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three representations, persons, individuals, beings (pick your descriptor) that make up that one God. They are three distinctly separate representations because in Matt 28:19, John 14:23-26, and John 15:26 all three are mentioned as different individuals.
Jesus as the Christ is absolutely no different than Jesus the "ordinal first". You are making distinctions where none really exist. Jesus is both first and last, because He is God. But Jesus came from the Father who is also God, and sends the Spirit who is also God.

 

[101G]

What is the purpose behind you speaking of yourself in the third person? I am curious.

(smile).

Father and Son are descriptors

descriptors of TITLES.

And the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three representations, persons, individuals, beings (pick your descriptor) that make up that one God.

ERROR, no such animals. "three representations, persons, individuals, beings".... three ... beings? that's all 101G needs to KNOW.... next.

101G

 

[101G]

@Doug Brents,
are you really understanding what the Lord Jesus is saying? may 101G ask you a question? listen closely, "if the Son came to earth and dwelt in a body of flesh, HOW MUCH OF THE ONE SPIRIT WAS IN THAT BODY OF FLESH?" your answer please.

101G.

 

[Doug Brents]

(smile).

not a response.

descriptors of TITLES.

No, Father and Son are descriptors of their relationship to each other.

ERROR, no such animals. "three representations, persons, individuals, beings".... three ... beings? that's all 101G needs to KNOW.... next.

Many believe they are different representations of the same being. I believe they are three separate beings that are united, as a human husband and wife (which are reflections of God's relationship) are. I may be wrong. But either way, there can be no doubt that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit all three represent portions of the ONE God that created the Universe and was worshiped by Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, and the Apostles.

 

[Doug Brents]

@Doug Brents,
are you really understanding what the Lord Jesus is saying? may 101G ask you a question? listen closely, "if the Son came to earth and dwelt in a body of flesh, HOW MUCH OF THE ONE SPIRIT WAS IN THAT BODY OF FLESH?" your answer please.

I am not really sure I understand your question. There is no "if the Son came to Earth". He most certainly did, and there can be no debate about it. Even secular historians with no Spiritual interest or belief will admit that Jesus was a real person who lived, taught, and was executed on a Roman cross. And all but the most personally biased will admit that He must have risen from the dead, because His contemporary antagonists and detractors would have taken His body and pointed it out to everyone if they could have, to shut His followers up. Historically, there can be no debate on the validity of the validity of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.

As to how much of the Spirit was in Him, personally I believe there are three spirits that are "married" into one God. Most of what we have on Earth is a reflection/shadow/image/model of what is real in Heaven. The Temple was a model of the real thing that exists in Heaven. Marriage is a reflection of the relationship that God has. So the Father and the Son are two beings (I believe) that are united in a much greater version of what we have been given called marriage. And the Holy Spirit is either a third being, or (as CS Lewis asserts) the relationship given personality. As he puts it, "The union between the Father and the Son is such a live concrete thing that this union itself is also a Person. I know this is almost inconceivable, but look at thus. You know that among human beings, when they get together in a family, or a club, or a trade union, people talk about the 'spirit' of that family, or club, or trade union. They talk about its 'spirit' because the individual members, when they are together, do really develop particular wasy of talking and behaving which they would not have if they were apart. It is as if a sort of communal personality came into existence." (Pages 175-176 of Mere Christianity). Now, as Lewis says, this is only a crude sketch, a way of viewing that which cannot be seen. If the image does not help, ignore the image, because the reality even greater than the sketch can possibly portray. But if the sketch is even partially correct, then the Spirit within Jesus was the Spirit of one part of that which makes up God. The Spirit that remained in Heaven was the other part, and the Spirit that went between them was the Spirit of that relationship remaining connected even though they were separated (one in Heaven, and the other in the physical realm).

 

[101G]

No, Father and Son are descriptors of their relationship to each other.

explain what type of relationship to each other?

Many believe they are different representations of the same being.

so, what are you saying, "God cannot represent his own self?

I believe they are three separate beings that are united, as a human husband and wife (which are reflections of God's relationship) are

where is the third wheel in that husband and wife, (only two person), deal? where do the third person fit in?

I may be wrong.

You are.

But either way, there can be no doubt that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit all three represent portions of the ONE God that created the Universe and was worshiped by Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, and the Apostles.

which one did they worship? for if all are the One God then did not Abraham call on three different names? so, list who did he worship. because, Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."

Now as for as the Apostle what name did they use... not title but name?

101G.

 

[101G]

There is no "if the Son came to Earth"

that's right he came to earth from heaven, John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." ... and, John 3:31 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."

So the Father and the Son are two beings (I believe) that are united in a much greater version of what we have been given called marriage. And the Holy Spirit is either a third being, or (as CS Lewis asserts) the relationship given personality. As he puts it, "The union between the Father and the Son is such a live concrete thing that this union itself is also a Person. I

LOL, LOL, LOL, then it's only ONE Spirit, and One Person then. NOW, since it's ONE "Spirit", so my question still stands.

The Spirit that remained in Heaven was the other part, and the Spirit that went between them was the Spirit of that relationship remaining connected even though they were separated (one in Heaven, and the other in the physical realm).

Thank you, ..... you and CS Lewis just LIED, God is Not "DIVIDED", nor separate. 1 Corinthians 1:12 "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ." 1 Corinthians 1:13 "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

now since you and CS Lewis said "The Spirit that remained in Heaven was the other part, and the Spirit that went between them was the Spirit of that relationship remaining connected even though they were separated (one in Heaven, and the other in the physical realm)."

so, you and CS Lewis have a PART of the one "Spirit" in Heaven and another PART of the same one "Spirit" on EARTH, and another PART in between, so as said, my question still stand. how much, of the PART was a. left in Heaven, and how much PART came to Earth? was it 1/2 of the Spirit, or 1/3 assessing for Father, 1/3, Son, 1/3, and Holy Spirit, 1/3 of the same ONE SPIRIT.

your answer PLEASE

101G.

 

[Doug Brents]

explain what type of relationship to each other?

Explain how the spiritually dead can be made spiritually alive through the transposition of Jesus' righteousness and our sin. Their relationship is equally mysterious to us who cannot comprehend such lofty concepts.
It is like trying to get a dot (having neither length, nor width, nor height) to explain the construction of a three dimensional cube.

so, what are you saying, "God cannot represent his own self?

No, I am saying that He represents Himself in three ways: through three beings as we perceive them.

where is the third wheel in that husband and wife, (only two person), deal? where do the third person fit in?

I do not know, I simply know that the three exist and are in complete and total harmony.

You are.

Such arrogance does not become you.

which one did they worship? for if all are the One God then did not Abraham call on three different names? so, list who did he worship. because, Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."

Jehovah is not a name, but the adding of vowels to the tetragrammaton YHWH, which means LORD. When in the late first millennium Jewish scholars inserted indications of vowels into the Hebrew Bible, they signaled that what was pronounced was "Adonai" (Lord); non-Jews later combined the vowels of Adonai with the consonants of the Tetragrammaton and invented the name "Jehovah".
God did not reveal His separate natures to anyone during the OT. The separate natures were not revealed until the Son took on flesh and became a man. But we know that Jesus was there with the Father when, in the bush, God said that His name was "I AM". And then Jesus said that "before Abraham, I AM."

Now as for as the Apostle what name did they use... not title but name?

They worshiped God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[101G]

Their relationship is equally mysterious to us who cannot comprehend such lofty concepts.

NONESENSE. the relationship is in the ECHAD of "CREATION", and "THE MAKING OF ALL THINGS" and the "REDEEMING and SAVING of ALL THINGS THAT HE MADE and CREATED". ONE PERSON in the ECHAD of Ordinal First and Ordinal Last.

No, I am saying that He represents Himself in three ways: through three beings as we perceive them

three beings? that's polytheism.

I do not know, I simply know that the three exist and are in complete and total harmony.

I do not know....... that's the best honesty yet ... I COMMEND YOU in the Namr of the Lord Jesus. this is the correct answer if one do not know instead of trying to answer without knowledge and understanding, when one do not know.... Thank you Doug. I have more respect for someone who tells the TRUTH instead of a LIE.

Such arrogance does not become you.

(smile)....

Jehovah is not a name, but the adding of vowels to the tetragrammaton YHWH, which means LORD. When in the late first millennium Jewish scholars inserted indications of vowels into the Hebrew Bible, they signaled that what was pronounced was "Adonai" (Lord); non-Jews later combined the vowels of Adonai with the consonants of the Tetragrammaton and invented the name "Jehovah".
God did not reveal His separate natures to anyone during the OT. The separate natures were not revealed until the Son took on flesh and became a man. But we know that Jesus was there with the Father when, in the bush, God said that His name was "I AM". And then Jesus said that "before Abraham, I AM."

THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU, and that's not being arrogant, but confident. which many do not understand..... see Doug 101G is not arrogant, but confident in what he is saying. now take this to HEART, 101G is not aganist YOU, but only aganist your IGNORANCE, please understand that..... ok..... again, 101G is NOT AGANIST you or anyone else, jutst against the IGNORANCE.

They worshiped God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

well NO, but we'll discuss that later. but 101G was impress with you knowledge that JEHOVAH is not God name.

now understand this Doug. as said 101G is Not against you, but the IGNORANCE or the Lack of Understanding Our Father Holy Word.... ok.

now if we can, I would Like to discuss the Titles, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit with you.

101G is as you know by now, is not a trinity believer, nor a ONENESS believer as the UPC and some other teach but is a "DIVERSIFIED ONENESS" believer as the Lord Jesus taught, and his disciples, and his apostles believed. 101G believes TOTALLY in what God has spoken unto us in his WORD, the BIBLE. and 101G uses the KJV.

so, if you're willing to discuss, not argue, but discuss, I'm game.

101G.

 

[Doug Brents]

that's right he came to earth from heaven, John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." ... and, John 3:31 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."

LOL, LOL, LOL, then it's only ONE Spirit, and One Person then. NOW, since it's ONE "Spirit", so my question still stands.

Three spirits united into one. Still capable of independent action, but united in power, purpose, and authority such that none will do anything that hinders, impedes, or is contrary to the nature of the whole.

Thank you, ..... you and CS Lewis just LIED, God is Not "DIVIDED", nor separate. 1 Corinthians 1:12 "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ." 1 Corinthians 1:13 "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

I did not lie, and only the portion of what I posted that was blue was CS Lewis's words. And you are correct, Christ is not divided. But there is a difference between the Father (who remained in Heaven), the Son Jesus (who came to Earth to live as a man and was cut off from the Father when He became sin for us on the Cross), and the Spirit of God (who lives in our hearts today).

now since you and CS Lewis said "The Spirit that remained in Heaven was the other part, and the Spirit that went between them was the Spirit of that relationship remaining connected even though they were separated (one in Heaven, and the other in the physical realm)."

so, you and CS Lewis have a PART of the one "Spirit" in Heaven and another PART of the same one "Spirit" on EARTH, and another PART in between, so as said, my question still stand. how much, of the PART was a. left in Heaven, and how much PART came to Earth? was it 1/2 of the Spirit, or 1/3 assessing for Father, 1/3, Son, 1/3, and Holy Spirit, 1/3 of the same ONE SPIRIT.

your answer PLEASE

100% of the Spirit of Jesus was in the body of Jesus during His life. 100% of the Spirit of the Father was in Heaven while Jesus was on Earth. 100% of the Holy Spirit is in each of us who are in Christ today.