Why The Trinity is Wrong: Definition

GeneZ said:
I'll tell you all why these "Trinity" debates can not be resolved.

Those who can not see, will not see it, no matter how much proof you provide.

Here is why....

Matthew 16:13-17


When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,
“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others,
Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed
to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

Those who see the Trinity do not see it because some person made them to perceive it.
We may share with each other passages that further clarify and confirm what we already know.
But the verses do not make us to see that God is One as a Trinity.

So you skeptics... Don't be frustrated with believers if you don't get it. For, its God who must open your eyes to see.

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, ​
for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.​

Finding yourself seeing the Trinity is God's way of reassuring the believer that he has been joined to something real. Something real and that others will not see.

Knowing it is like birds knowing to fly south for the winter. No one tells them to do so. God gives the ability...

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

No man can say that.

Bye! You can keep that apple!
Click to expand...
So according to you, there lies the Trinity in Matt 16:16-17? Wow! It should be self-evident and readily understood that the Spirit of the Father of his Son, Yahshua, placed these thoughts into Simon Peter's mind and heart directly. This is called the one living Father God, the Father of Yahshua in action extending his holy spirit into this world, into this man in this case, that causes miraculous events, thoughts and deeds.

I bet you can trinitize (my made-up word) any scripture or make scripture conform to your trinity model that involves the father and Son, and even without the Father's holy spirit?
 
Most anti-Trinitarians assume as their a priori assumption that, if a doctrine is biblical, then it will be clearly and fully taught throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

They begin with the assumption that, if they do not find the doctrine of the Trinity as clearly and fully taught in the Old Testament as in the New Testament, this means that it is not a biblical doctrine. In so doing, they flatten the distinctions between the Testaments and operate on the assumption that the Bible is one book with no inner progress or development of thought. But the Bible is not one book written at one time, by one human author. Its progressive nature cannot be ignored or denied without fatal results.

That's why it's important to understand progressive revelation. The principle of progressive revelation explains why we do not find any doctrine developed in its fullness in Genesis. While the “seeds” of those doctrines may be found in Genesis, their full development awaited the coming of other prophets and apostles who would understand more by virtue of new revelations than those who went before them.

Each new revelation was like a turn of the knob on a pair of binoculars which would eventually change the initial blurred vision of the seer to the point of crystal clarity.
 
praise_yeshua said:
By all means, explain. It doesn't matter what I see. Tell me what you see.
Click to expand...
LOL, LOL, LOL, I thought you said you have researched this out..... (smile). Oh well

that term "Beginning", before we even get to "God" is the Hebrew word,
H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218

Notice definition #1. the FIRST, as in Ordinal First who is the LORD. scripture, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" ONE here is, H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

notice definition #2. (as an ordinal) first. and notice in "BEGINNING" definition# 1. the first, in place, time, order or rank. but NOTICE the "First", in place, time, order or rank. .... which answers the Genesis 1:26 question US and OUR as HE and HIS in the very next verse.... (smile).

but notice in H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') the definition states, [from the same as H7218] so, let's see what is,
H7218 רֹאשׁ ro'sh (roshe) n-m.
the head (as most easily shaken), whether literal or figurative (in many applications, of place, time, rank, itc.).
[from an unused root apparently meaning to shake]
KJV: band, beginning, captain, chapiter, chief(-est place, man, things), company, end, X every (man), excellent, first, forefront, (be-)head, height, (on) high(-est part, (priest)), X lead, X poor, principal, ruler, sum, top.

the "HEAD" indicates "Father", the First...... (smile)... Uh O.

now this is just the one term "BEGINNING", and we haven't got to the term "GOD" yet.

but can you follow so far?

101G.
 
@praise_yeshua.
we now know that the LORD, all Caps is the Father, who is the "First", and the bible clearly states ONE "LORD", and one "Lord". now let's see from the OT is this the same PERSON in TIM, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK.

Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Lord here is the Hebrew term, H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.

notice definition #1. ...... "divine", let's see why. Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath." THE SAME "Lord" AT HIS RIGHT IN VERSE 1 IS THE SAME Lord HERE IN VERSE 5. now the definition of "Lord" Here, remember the same "Lord" at his RIGHT.
Lord: H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

notice definition #2. but is not "LORD", all cap in verse 1 is Yahweh God of Israel? .... (smile).......

now the revelation, Why is Lord: H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') here in verse 5 the God of Israel when it's the same "Lord" in verse 1 ..... AT HIS RIGHT. answer, in Flesh in TIME to come or as Galatians 4:4 say, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"
a. the fulness of what ... TIME, and beginning states the First IN ... "TIME", PLACE, ORDER, or RANK. so the LAST came in "TIME, who is the Son the "Lord" who is God, your Yahweh God of Israel? just as Lord: H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') states.... Uh O. is it two Yahweh God of Israel? no, only ONE GOD of ISRAEL. (smile). now we need to KNOW HOW.... are you following so far?

101G.
 
101G said:
ok, mediate on this. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." the First is "WITH" the Last. let's see if this is ONE PSRSON. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." ...... what you say, it's the same one PERSON. is this UNCOMMON? Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea." and this is ONE PERSON, as well as this, Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;" again ONE in the SAME .... one person. ..... can you believe that? is there a mental block going around?

101G.
Click to expand...
You are too locked on the KJV. Are you a KJV-only believer? Read Isaiah 41:4 and 48:12 in the Brenton OT version and you will see a difference.

As for Rev 1, Jesus explains the terms Alpha and Omega as meaning the Beginning and the End. The Word of God, Jesus, has eternally existed and is the beginning and ending of all things. Now how you go from that to saying the Father and the Son are one person I have no idea.
 
synergy said:
You are too locked on the KJV. Are you a KJV-only believer? Read Isaiah 41:4 and 48:12 in the Brenton OT version and you will see a difference.

As for Rev 1, Jesus explains the terms Alpha and Omega as meaning the Beginning and the End. The Word of God, Jesus, has eternally existed and is the beginning and ending of all things. Now how you go from that to saying the Father and the Son are one person I have no idea.
Click to expand...
LOL, LOL, LOL, go to BIBLE HUB and see all the translations. .... NEXT.

101G.
 
praise_yeshua said:
My problem with this position is that it makes such a teaching an exclusively "Spiritual" impartation of knowledge. I disagree. Not that I don't believe it is Spiritual. I do. However, I believe it is also a rational teaching. Tt does take a little faith before someone can actually learn it properly. If you believe it is a lie from the beginning, there is less hope but I can't say there isn't hope at all.
Click to expand...

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, ​
for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, ​
but by my Father in heaven.​

Stop trying to get your foot back in the door.
Your declaration was double minded.

You are only trying to set up a shooting gallery so you can practice shooting things down.
For, there are no limits for denial.

If there were a limit for denials?
There would be no Lake of Fire....

..........
 
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The church formulated the strange doctrine of the Trinity because it felt compelled, on the basis of its study of Scripture, to affirm both that God is one and that there are three who are God. It did this through the doctrine of triunity: that God is three in one. Strange I know but stranger things have happened. Why would the King of Glory allow Himself to be crucified? Some call that foolishness.
 
APAK said:
So according to you, there lies the Trinity in Matt 16:16-17? Wow! It should be self-evident and readily understood that the Spirit of the Father of his Son, Yahshua, placed these thoughts into Simon Peter's mind and heart directly. This is called the one living Father God, the Father of Yahshua in action extending his holy spirit into this world, into this man in this case, that causes miraculous events, thoughts and deeds.

I bet you can trinitize (my made-up word) any scripture or make scripture conform to your trinity model that involves the father and Son, and even without the Father's holy spirit?
Click to expand...


One part of the "Art of Denial" is to be found in Proverbs 12:1

" Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but whoever hates correction is stupid. "

Once you catch someone in a contradiction refusing correction ? Denial becomes as easy as playing stupid. Its a denial technique.

Now that does not mean to say that Proverbs 12:1 is speaking of someone with low IQ.
For even a genius can become stupid.
All it takes is arrogance, and a desire to always win.

We see Proverbs 12:1 being demonstrated in the political news every day.
 
@praise_yeshua,
THE HOW.
Lets go back to Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
and NOW WE WILL UNDERSTAND the term "GOD".

God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

see that [plural of H433] well let's see what H433 is,
GOD: H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

Notice the [plural of H433] of, of, of, not from, but of. LISTEN CAREFULLY. "of" translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned. here, indicating an association between two entities, typically one of belonging.

of, not From, just as Equal to vs Equal WITH, Oh this is too easy not to be understood. the "Lord" is the EQUAL SHARE OF, OF, OF, God in Flesh bone and Blood that was to COME IN, IN, IN, TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK.

101G.
 
WCF said:
The church formulated the strange doctrine of the Trinity because it felt compelled, on the basis of its study of Scripture, to affirm both that God is one and that there are three who are God. It did this through the doctrine of triunity: that God is three in one. Strange I know but stranger things have happened. Why would the King of Glory allow Himself to be crucified? Some call that foolishness.
Click to expand...
In today's society we normally do not talk about the nature or the essense of a person. In fact, the concept of human nature has become so trivialized that genders can be crossed at will. Now why am I saying this? That's because the word God denotes God's nature, not His Person. That's how 3 Divine Persons have 1 Divine Nature, a Triunity. If we can fully grasp the true meaning of nature then the word Trinity or Triunity becomes understandable.
 
synergy said:
In today's society we normally do not talk about the nature or the essense of a person. In fact, the concept of human nature has become so trivialized that genders can be crossed at will. Now why am I saying this? That's because the word God denotes God's nature, not His Person. That's how 3 Divine Persons have 1 Divine Nature, a Triunity. If we can fully grasp the true meaning of nature then the Triunity is understandable.
Click to expand...
I agree and I believe it's important to have a correct understanding of the trinity.
 
@praise_yeshua
when ONE KNOW and UNDERSTAND God is a ECHAD of himself in DIVERSITY, then all Doctrine and beliefs are revealed. and all IGNORANCE cast into the sea of no return.

and YES, "Diversity" is in the Bible. see God gave 101G a NEW TONGUE. not a different tongue, or unknown tongue, but a NEW TONGUE. Mark 16:15 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" Amen.

101G.
 

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