Why The Trinity is Wrong: Definition

[praise_yeshua]

Ok, let's see what the bible, God's holy word say. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." so the Word, the Son made all things... correct. NOW THIS, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

here in Isaiah the LORD, who is Father said he "MADE ALL THUNGS", and he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF" when he made all things. so the Word, who is God, in John 1:3 is the LORD in Isaiah 44:24, else one has two separate CREATORS who MADE ALL THINGS. your choice.

101G.

So it is your position that the Son is just a manifestation of the Father without any distinct characteristics as might be defined within the context of "Person"?

Added.... you can reference the doctrine of the Eternal Sonship.

 

[101G]

So it is your position that the Son is just a manifestation of the Father without any distinct characteristics as might be defined within the context of "Person"?

Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

God is "ONE" Person with ONE Soul. and that Soul/Person is the Lord JESUS, God himself in full manifestation of HIMSELS in human Flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state... while in that human flesh on earth.

101G.

 

[APAK]

Exodus 20:3: “You shall have no other gods before Me.”

Jesus never broke the Law.
He is God the Father being manifested exactly in human expression and form.

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you such a long time, and yet you have not known Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father. So how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:8-9

Why? The Father wants to be known by humans.

Instead of eagerly inserting the Trinity doctrine into these verses of John 14:8-9, why not explain in your own words, by placing your trinity lens off your eyes, the local context of it. Trinitarians usually have a very difficult time doing this crucial work. To help you on your way, you do know the word and spirit of the Father resided within the Son right, as he was speaking Philip? if you cannot understand this reality I can see why you use simple (il)logical conclusions and simply interchanges of Christ for the Father so easily, well suited for a Trinitarian view. It does not say the Son is the Father or equal with him in reality.

 

[101G]

And it says there is One Lord as well so by your standards the Father cannot be the One Lord. That wipes out the entire OT where YHWH is called Lord and eliminates the Father from being YHWH- the One Lord.

as they say: " you cannot have your cake and eat it too" my friend

Good analysis, hold that, now question, is this ONE "Lord" the same One person as the One "LORD", all caps, yes or No?

101G.

 

[civic]

Good analysis, hold that, now question, is this ONE "Lord" the same One person as the One "LORD", all caps, yes or No?

101G.

No as the Son is called YHWH/Lord several times in the N.T. by the Apostles and Christ Himself. And we know that the Father is YHWH/ Lord too. We also know that the Father is not the Son and vice versa.

 

[101G]

No as the Son is called YHWH/Lord several times in the N.T. by the Apostles and Christ Himself. And we know that the Father is YHWH/ Lord too. We also know that the Father is not the Son and vice versa.

ok let the bible tell us OK. Listen, Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." Hebrews 1:9 "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:"

here the definite article is used of the "Son", who is Lord. who laid the foundation of the earth. Note the "Lord", who is the Son Laid the Foundation of the Earth..... correct. NOW THIS, Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

so, the "LOTD", all cap Laid the Foundation of the earth, but Hebrews states, the "Lord" Laid the Foundation of the earth.

now, 101G knows the bible don't lie, for if it did, that means God LIED, (God forbid). so the "Lord" who is the Son is the Same one Person who is the "LORD", all cap, (the Father), who Laid the Foundation of the earth is the same ONE PERSON, else the bible LIED, this is your Choice. so, your answer please.

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

God is "ONE" Person with ONE Soul. and that Soul/Person is the Lord JESUS, God himself in full manifestation of HIMSELS in human Flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state... while in that human flesh on earth.

101G.

Oh. So you're "Oneness"?

"Soul" is a difficult "sell" here. The Uniqueness of the Son in sharing the qualities of humanity are very important to His priestly work.

Oneness creates a "schizophrenic" "Person".

 

[civic]

ok let the bible tell us OK. Listen, Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." Hebrews 1:9 "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:"

here the definite article is used of the "Son", who is Lord. who laid the foundation of the earth. Note the "Lord", who is the Son Laid the Foundation of the Earth..... correct. NOW THIS, Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

so, the "LOTD", all cap Laid the Foundation of the earth, but Hebrews states, the "Lord" Laid the Foundation of the earth.

now, 101G knows the bible don't lie, for if it did, that means God LIED, (God forbid). so the "Lord" who is the Son is the Same one Person who is the "LORD", all cap, (the Father), who Laid the Foundation of the earth is the same ONE PERSON, else the bible LIED, this is your Choice. so, your answer please.

101G.

All you have to do is read 1 Corinthians 8:6 for the answer. Both created all things.

All summed up succinctly in a single verse.

 

[101G]

Oh. So you're "Oneness"?

NO, not like the UPC, and a few other..... (smile)

"Soul" is a difficult "sell" here. The Uniqueness of the Son in sharing the qualities of humanity are very important to His priestly work

God speaking, Isaiah 1:14 "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them."

Oneness creates a "schizophrenic" "Person".

they do 101G by God himself, "Diversified Oneness", don't ... B.A.M.

101G

 

[praise_yeshua]

ok let the bible tell us OK. Listen, Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." Hebrews 1:9 "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:"

here the definite article is used of the "Son", who is Lord. who laid the foundation of the earth. Note the "Lord", who is the Son Laid the Foundation of the Earth..... correct. NOW THIS, Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

so, the "LOTD", all cap Laid the Foundation of the earth, but Hebrews states, the "Lord" Laid the Foundation of the earth.

now, 101G knows the bible don't lie, for if it did, that means God LIED, (God forbid). so the "Lord" who is the Son is the Same one Person who is the "LORD", all cap, (the Father), who Laid the Foundation of the earth is the same ONE PERSON, else the bible LIED, this is your Choice. so, your answer please.

101G.

You might consider the Eternal Nature of the Son. The Son has always been the manifestation of Divinity to man. This doesn't negate the individual characteristics of Person within the Trinity.

 

[praise_yeshua]

NO, not like the UPC, and a few other..... (smile)

God speaking, Isaiah 1:14 "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them."

they do 101G by God himself, "Diversified Oneness", don't ... B.A.M.

101G

Okay. I was referencing the human soul of Christ.

 

[101G]

All you have to do is read 1 Corinthians 8:6 for the answer. Both created all things.

ERROR, listen, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

he was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF", and Alone means, "NO ONE ELSE PRESENT"

so that eliminates any two or more.

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

ERROR, listen, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

he was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF", and Alone means, "NO ONE ELSE PRESENT"

so that eliminates any two or more.

101G.

You obviously believe in many manifestation of this "One God" you're describing. What is the difference? You have many in ONE. Or many from One. I'd like to have a rational explanation of how this is different.

 

[101G]

You might consider the Eternal Nature of the Son. The Son has always been the manifestation of Divinity to man. This doesn't negate the individual characteristics of Person within the Trinity.

it do because it's the same ONE PERSON in the ECHAD of EQUAL SHARE, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
form here is NATURE, and the verse states, EQUAL ... "WITH", ... and Not EQUAL TO. .... BIG difference.


101G.

 

[101G]

You obviously believe in many manifestation of this "One God" you're describing.

your personal Opinion? not mine.

You have many in ONE. Or many from One. I'd like to have a rational explanation of how this is different.

see above.

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

it do because it's the same ONE PERSON in the ECHAD of EQUAL SHARE, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
form here is NATURE, and the verse states, EQUAL ... "WITH", ... and Not EQUAL TO. .... BIG difference.


101G.

Can you explain the "Big" difference instead of just saying there is a "Big" difference?

 

[praise_yeshua]

your personal Opinion? not mine.

see above.

101G.

We are on the same "page" here. Not that we believe the same. I understand what you're saying.

 

[civic]

You obviously believe in many manifestation of this "One God" you're describing. What is the difference? You have many in ONE. Or many from One. I'd like to have a rational explanation of how this is different.

Yes One Cluster of grapes with many individual grapes. This is used throughout the OT with echad. The Two individuals become ONE flesh.

 

[101G]

Can you explain the "Big" difference instead of just saying there is a "Big" difference?

yes, if the verse would have said, "EQUAL .... TO God", then one would have a separate and distinct person. but by saying "Equal WITH", then it's the same one Person. .... (smile), B.A.M.

for the Nature is the EQUAL SHARE.

101G.

 

[101G]

We are on the same "page" here. Not that we believe the same. I understand what you're saying.

Good, let 101G explain, "Diversified Oneness." simply put it the ECHAD of God in Ordinal Designations of First and Last. follow so far. the titles Father and Son are just that titles of the One PERSON GOD in this Ordinal Designations of First and Last.

Father/First, simply means CREATOR, and MAKER or the First. and this same one Person "SHARED" himself in Flesh, as the LAST, which was, was, was, as in John 1:1 was to Come in Flesh to REDEEM and SAVE what he CREATED and MADE.

follow so far. so, Jesus as the Ordinal First CREATED, and MADE ALL THINGS as Isaiah 44:24 states, all alone and BY HIMSELF. and in DUE TIME, or in the FULLNESS of TIME Galatians 4:4 God came, (the Ordinal Last, in flesh), to REDEEM and SAVE what he CREATED and MADE as the CHRIST... in flesh as a MAN.

this is just the overall basic of "Diversified Oneness", which answers all question, and doctrine of the BIBLE.

101G.