Why Calvinism is a bad thing.

[Arial]

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

There is the word chose and it is God doing that. It is done by the word, the gospel that we must hear before we can believe it. Many more people hear the gospel and don't believe it that those who do believe it. Those who do believe do so because they have been quickened to life---born again.

But it you feel safer trusting in your own decision instead of God in this matter---by all means hold to it.

 

[civic]

There is the word chose and it is God doing that. It is done by the word, the gospel that we must hear before we can believe it. Many more people hear the gospel and don't believe it that those who do believe it. Those who do believe do so because they have been quickened to life---born again.

But it you feel safer trusting in your own decision instead of God in this matter---by all means hold to it.

No it says just the opposite . The new birth results after the gospel is believed . And we know faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ , the gospel.

All you are doing is repeating Calvinism doctrine , not scripture. The Bible doesn’t support your ideas which is why I don’t see any verses supporting the new birth precedes faith . I have a dozens that say faith comes before the new birth , regeneration, the in dwelling Holy Spirit , salvation , eternal life etc….

hope this helps !!!

 

[Arial]

So these disciples had a will to cast out the demon from that man's son but apparently God hadn't given them enough faith. They only had a little faith. See what I'm saying? If they're following and being taught by Jesus as disciples they should have a full measure of faith right? But apparently that's not the case because Jesus is saying IF you have faith.

So if your order of salvation is correct it seems to me God would give us a full measure of faith in order to believe in him and be saved.

Those scriptures aren't speaking of the faith that saves----that faith that believes the gospel when it is heard. That only takes faith the size of a mustard seed. Our faith grows as we grow and learn more. Evidently the disciples at that point had made a human shift of relying on themselves and not God, or in some way doubted God. They were still growing in faith. When God gives us the faith to believe in the person and work of Jesus that faith becomes ours, and our responsibility to feed with the word of God. Truths of the Bible must go through our minds (knowledge) and then into our hearts. We don't know much when we begin. We know more next year (hopefully) than we did the years before. But it is our responsibility to learn. God teaches in His word, but He does not learn for us.

 

[praise_yeshua]

There is the word chose and it is God doing that. It is done by the word, the gospel that we must hear before we can believe it. Many more people hear the gospel and don't believe it that those who do believe it. Those who do believe do so because they have been quickened to life---born again.

But it you feel safer trusting in your own decision instead of God in this matter---by all means hold to it.

Not true. Many people believe and refuse to confess Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Those scriptures aren't speaking of the faith that saves----that faith that believes the gospel when it is heard. That only takes faith the size of a mustard seed. Our faith grows as we grow and learn more. Evidently the disciples at that point had made a human shift of relying on themselves and not God, or in some way doubted God. They were still growing in faith. When God gives us the faith to believe in the person and work of Jesus that faith becomes ours, and our responsibility to feed with the word of God. Truths of the Bible must go through our minds (knowledge) and then into our hearts. We don't know much when we begin. We know more next year (hopefully) than we did the years before. But it is our responsibility to learn. God teaches in His word, but He does not learn for us.

Jesus said the faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.

 

[Arial]

All you are going is repeating Calvinism doctrine , not scripture. The Bible doesn’t support your ideas which is why I don’t see any verses supporting the new birth precedes faith . I have a dozens that say faith comes before the new birth , regeneration, the in dwelling Holy Spirit , salvation , eternal life etc….

And there we have it. The accusation of Calvinism used as though it were a valid argument. It isn't. The doctrines of Calvinism came out of the scriptures as consistent and consistently as the Bible itself is. They did not come out of some other book. You saying they didn't only means one thing. That you disagree with them. I am so fed up with these types of empty arguments.

I have given Bible support for the new birth of necessity coming first. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it or agree does not mean that I did not do so. All those you said say faith produces a new birth (which is kind of like saying the babies birth produced his birth)I have shown that they are saying no such thing. But this has become like arguing with a unitarian open theist. So great is your dislike of Calvinism that nothing will penetrate that armor. You will not allow it to. Hating Calvinism is the issue, not discovering or exploring or learning. Not Christ.

So I will do the TULIP thing because I said I would, and then we can put this wall banging thing to bed.

 

[Arial]

Jesus said the faint the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.

Learn to recognize hyperbole when you come across it.

What does Jesus say about the mustard seed and the kingdom of heaven?

 

[Eleazar]

Those scriptures aren't speaking of the faith that saves----that faith that believes the gospel when it is heard. That only takes faith the size of a mustard seed. Our faith grows as we grow and learn more. Evidently the disciples at that point had made a human shift of relying on themselves and not God, or in some way doubted God. They were still growing in faith. When God gives us the faith to believe in the person and work of Jesus that faith becomes ours, and our responsibility to feed with the word of God. Truths of the Bible must go through our minds (knowledge) and then into our hearts. We don't know much when we begin. We know more next year (hopefully) than we did the years before. But it is our responsibility to learn. God teaches in His word, but He does not learn for us.

But they were saved. They were Jews heirs to the promise God made to Abraham. And they believed in the Messiah they were following him. But let me say it again. When God gives us faith to be saved it's only a little smidgen of faith. It seems like something is important as salvation might require a little more faith. And as far as he's our responsibility to feed that faith isn't that like works? First I get a little submission of faith then I have to do some work to grow my faith wow.

 

[Arial]

Not true. Many people believe and refuse to confess Christ.

Irrelevant to the post.

 

[Arial]

But they were saved. They were Jews heirs to the promise God made to Abraham. And they believed in the Messiah they were following him. But let me say it again. When God gives us faith to be saved it's only a little smidgen of faith. It seems like something is important as salvation might require a little more faith. And as far as he's our responsibility to feed that faith isn't that like works? First I get a little submission of faith then I have to do some work to grow my faith wow.

Whatever. I'll leave you to work it out for yourself.

 

[civic]

And there we have it. The accusation of Calvinism used as though it were a valid argument. It isn't. The doctrines of Calvinism came out of the scriptures as consistent and consistently as the Bible itself is. They did not come out of some other book. You saying they didn't only means one thing. That you disagree with them. I am so fed up with these types of empty arguments.

I have given Bible support for the new birth of necessity coming first. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it or agree does not mean that I did not do so. All those you said say faith produces a new birth (which is kind of like saying the babies birth produced his birth)I have shown that they are saying no such thing. But this has become like arguing with a unitarian open theist. So great is your dislike of Calvinism that nothing will penetrate that armor. You will not allow it to. Hating Calvinism is the issue, not discovering or exploring or learning. Not Christ.

So I will do the TULIP thing because I said I would, and then we can put this wall banging thing to bed.

Look I don’t argue like a unitarian, that’s like me saying you argue just like every Mormon I’ve met.

I post lots of scripture to support what I believe . I’m still waiting for you to do the same snd exegete a passage and prove what you say it claims .

I’ve done that here with the new birth and faith with plenty of scripture. I’ve proven faith precedes new life. You have yet to prove it wrong with any scripture. I will do the same with you on every point of tulip .

 

[atpollard]

There is nothing in this reference that teaches God must regenerate you before you can "hear" the Gospel.

It is only my job to tell you, it is not my job to make you see:

• [Mat 16:17 NASB20] 17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
• [Eze 12:2 NASB20] 2 "Son of man, you live in the midst of the rebellious house, who have eyes to see but do not see, ears to hear but do not hear; for they are a rebellious house.
• [Mat 11:15 NASB20] 15 "The one who has ears to hear, let him hear.
• [Rom 11:8 NASB20] 8 just as it is written: "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."

It is God’s job to make you understand:

• [Jhn 14:26 NASB20] 26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you.

 

[Arial]

There is nothing in this reference that teaches God must regenerate you before you can "hear" the Gospel.

It is an oxymoron the way you claim one must hear the Gospel before believing and then claim you can't hear the Gospel until you believe.

It is much like these conversations with you and civic. "Hearing they do not hear."

Matt 13:13-15

13This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:


“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’

How do you fit those scriptures into you free will theory?

 

[Arial]

@civic
There is a good chance I won't do tulip til tomorrow. I get very frustrated with these empty back and forth circular he said she said fights. And the more frustrated I get the more outspoken I get. Best I back off for awhile.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Learn to recognize hyperbole when you come across it.

What does Jesus say about the mustard seed and the kingdom of heaven?

Learn to believe what Jesus said. You claim faith and then explain away the words of Christ.

It isn't hyperbole, it is an metaphorical expression. Even so, it clearly teaches that the smallest of faith pleases God. Which is a good thing. You're not setting the world on fire with your faith. In fact, you are denying it to others.

 

[praise_yeshua]

@civic
There is a good chance I won't do tulip til tomorrow. I get very frustrated with these empty back and forth circular he said she said fights. And the more frustrated I get the more outspoken I get. Best I back off for awhile.

More likely it is comes from the inability to defend your position. Ever noticed how Jesus was calm in the face of questioning? The Word of God us cutting you and it always hurts.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is much like these conversations with you and civic. "Hearing they do not hear."

Matt 13:13-15

13This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:


“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’

How do you fit those scriptures into you free will theory?

Like with most Calvinist, you are claiming to understand what you insist others can not understand.

Parables require perspective. A perspective only acquired through faith. When you believe something, you seek to know and learn what you do not understand about it. On the other hand you require God to impart knowledge to you without effort. Why be so lazy?

 

[Diserner]

It is much like these conversations with you and civic. "Hearing they do not hear."

Matt 13:13-15

13This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:


“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’

How do you fit those scriptures into you free will theory?

The doctrine of judicial hardening.

If they were already blind and deaf, what is the need to to further deafen and blind them?

Makes no sense at all.

 

[Diserner]

@civic
There is a good chance I won't do tulip til tomorrow. I get very frustrated with these empty back and forth circular he said she said fights. And the more frustrated I get the more outspoken I get. Best I back off for awhile.

Yeah, it happens to me as well.

I try to channel it into prayer, for others, and for myself.

That way the devil always loses either way.

Strongholds aren't build in a day.

 

[civic]

@civic
There is a good chance I won't do tulip til tomorrow. I get very frustrated with these empty back and forth circular he said she said fights. And the more frustrated I get the more outspoken I get. Best I back off for awhile.

No worries take a break and we can discuss scriptures instead of doctrine