Why Calvinism is a bad thing.

Justice is a presupposition which is why I'm asking where in the N.T. is that spelled out ?
Is God by His very nature and being perfectly and always just? You frequently ask for a scripture to prove something that requires dozens of scriptures put together to form the concept, an entire thesis, and no one is here to write a book. It is like a unitarian asking "Show me one place in the Bible says God is a Trinity?
 
Is God by His very nature and being perfectly and always just? You frequently ask for a scripture to prove something that requires dozens of scriptures put together to form the concept, an entire thesis, and no one is here to write a book. It is like a unitarian asking "Show me one place in the Bible says God is a Trinity?
No where does God require Justice in the Atonement with Christ ?

I can provide plenty of scriptures from both testaments proving God is Plural in Persons, hence Triune.
 
I'm asking where in the N.T. do we read that the Atonement is Gods justice served on Christ.

Could you reword that, please?

Explain in your words how God's justice was not served on Christ.
Maybe if you explain your perspective? I could better understand what you are asking.

How was God's justice not served on Christ on the Cross for our atonement?

Thank you......
 
Is God by His very nature and being perfectly and always just? You frequently ask for a scripture to prove something that requires dozens of scriptures put together to form the concept, an entire thesis, and no one is here to write a book. It is like a unitarian asking "Show me one place in the Bible says God is a Trinity?

Exactly as you stated......

I find it an odd question. One that most serious students of the Word of God already know without asking.

Then he will claim we can not answer because what we claimed is not true.

It is a ploy...

grace and peace ......................
 
Last edited:
I acknowledge that is ONE INTERPRETATION of what John was saying that many hold and many do not. Do you at least acknowledge that there are other ways that those words can be understood that does not have Jesus dying for sins that God will ultimately send people to hell for?


............ "Did God really say?"
Genesis 3:1

No matter how plainly something is stated?
There will always be a way out of acknowledging what it says.

The question not asked?
Why do some go to Hell?

For their sins?
Or, for the rejection of God's Son?

Satan may sin since he fell.
But? Is he going to the Lake of Fire simply for his sins?
Or, for his rejection and implacability towards the Lord?

Those going to Hell are sharing in Satan's mindset.
 
Could you reword that, please?

Explain in your words how God's justice was not served on Christ.
Maybe if you explain your perspective? I could better understand what you are asking.

How was God's justice not served on Christ on the Cross for our atonement?

Thank you......
Does the Atonement mean that Gods Justice was fulfilled/served/completed in Christ ?

If so where is that found in the pages of the N.T. regarding Justice ?
 
Does the Atonement mean that Gods Justice was fulfilled/served/completed in Christ ?

If so where is that found in the pages of the N.T. regarding Justice ?


Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne;
love and faithfulness go before you."


Psalm 89:14
 
Does the Atonement mean that Gods Justice was fulfilled/served/completed in Christ ?

If so where is that found in the pages of the N.T. regarding Justice ?

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. (Col. 2:13-15 NKJ)


The requirements of the Law, the "debt certificate" of sin as it were, were all the Law's curses against failure to keep it.

"Cursed is the man who does not keep ALL the things written in the Law to do it."

And again we are specifically told this is the curse Jesus became on the Cross:

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree1 "), (Gal. 3:13 NKJ)

This is why we can say:

"Christ is the end of the Law for all who believe,"

...this is why we can say,

"Through the Law I died to the Law, that I might live to God: I have been crucified with Christ."


And notice in Colossians 2:15 the payment of the sin debt is directly connected to disarming principalities and powers, and how Christ triumphed over them.

This is because the only legal thing Satan has over us is the sin debt, the judgment of our wrong doing before God.


Jesus took the cup of his blood as the "remission of sins," the cup he said he must drink, the ransom he said he must make, to save his people from their sins.

You can't save people from the sins by ignoring and violating justice: that's not how equity works, that's not a just system.

This is why it is said, the Law brings wrath, for the Law brings the knowledge of sin.
 
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. (Col. 2:13-15 NKJ)


The requirements of the Law, the "debt certificate" of sin as it were, were all the Law's curses against failure to keep it.

"Cursed is the man who does not keep ALL the things written in the Law to do it."

And again we are specifically told this is the curse Jesus became on the Cross:

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree1 "), (Gal. 3:13 NKJ)

This is why we can say:

"Christ is the end of the Law for all who believe,"

...this is why we can say,

"Through the Law I died to the Law, that I might live to God: I have been crucified with Christ."


And notice in Colossians 2:15 the payment of the sin debt is directly connected to disarming principalities and powers, and how Christ triumphed over them.

This is because the only legal thing Satan has over us is the sin debt, the judgment of our wrong doing before God.


Jesus took the cup of his blood as the "remission of sins," the cup he said he must drink, the ransom he said he must make, to save his people from their sins.

You can't save people from the sins by ignoring and violating justice: that's not how equity works, that's not a just system.

This is why it is said, the Law brings wrath, for the Law brings the knowledge of sin.
The penal,legal, judicial aspect in theology was derived during the reformation, not prior.
 
Agreed but that has nothing to do with the Atonement. :)



And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices,
which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice
for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His
enemies are made His footstool." Heb 10:11-12​

Was not the Cross not the once and for all sacrifice for sin?
That was God dealing in Justice for man's sins.
Or... Was the Atonement on the Cross only a publicity stunt?
You are not making sense that you do not understand that by now...
But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice
for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God.

grace and peace ...................
 
And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices,
which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice
for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His
enemies are made His footstool." Heb 10:11-12​

Was not the Cross not the once and for all sacrifice for sin?
That was God dealing in Justice for man's sins.
Or... Was the Atonement on the Cross only a publicity stunt?
You are not making sense that you do not understand that by now...
But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice
for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God.

grace and peace ...................
Justice is an assumption. Here is what the One who made the Atonement for sin says about His very own sacrifice. He said it was a ransom, for the forgiveness of sins, as a substitute.
 
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. (Col. 2:13-15 NKJ)


The requirements of the Law, the "debt certificate" of sin as it were, were all the Law's curses against failure to keep it.

"Cursed is the man who does not keep ALL the things written in the Law to do it."

And again we are specifically told this is the curse Jesus became on the Cross:

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree1 "), (Gal. 3:13 NKJ)

This is why we can say:

"Christ is the end of the Law for all who believe,"

...this is why we can say,

"Through the Law I died to the Law, that I might live to God: I have been crucified with Christ."


And notice in Colossians 2:15 the payment of the sin debt is directly connected to disarming principalities and powers, and how Christ triumphed over them.

This is because the only legal thing Satan has over us is the sin debt, the judgment of our wrong doing before God.


Jesus took the cup of his blood as the "remission of sins," the cup he said he must drink, the ransom he said he must make, to save his people from their sins.

You can't save people from the sins by ignoring and violating justice: that's not how equity works, that's not a just system.

This is why it is said, the Law brings wrath, for the Law brings the knowledge of sin.
How did God view His own death, atonement for sin ?

1- Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13

2-No man takes my life I lay it down and I will take it up again- John 10:18

3- I lay My life down for the sheep- John 10:15

4- Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up again. John 2:19

5-just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many- Matthew 20:28

6-I Am the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep- substitution, John 10:11

7-Jesus said in John 11:50- nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish- substitution

8-Jesus tells His disciples the cup of suffering that awaited Him and that they too would also drink of this cup- Matthew 20

9-This is my blood of the Covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins- Matthew 26:28

10- Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing- Luke 23:34



Acts 2:23
this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

Acts 2:36
“Therefore, let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

Acts 4:10- Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole…

Acts 5:30- The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree
Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life

Matthew 20:18-19
“We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will deliver Him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. And on the third day He will be raised to life."

Matthew 27:1- When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:

Matthew 27:35- When they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments by casting lots.

Mark 15:24- And they crucified Him. They also divided His garments by casting lots to decide what each of them would take


conclusion: The One who made Atonement for my sins completely left out PSA and not once mentioned it or hinted at it in any way, shape or form. There was no wrath from the Father to the Son. The anger, wrath,vengeance, retribution as the Apostles taught in Acts and Jesus taught in the gospels came from evil and wicked men.

hope this helps !!
 
Justice is never mentioned as part of the atonement.

whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness,
because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness,
that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Rom. 3:26 NKJ)

God does not JUST JUSTIFY.

HE JUSTIFIES JUSTLY!
 
So God is not Sovereign ?

We know the crucifixion was planned by God and was in control of its exact timing, place and people but Justice is never mentioned as part of the atonement.

Yes... He's sovereign. OK.

But? It must relate to the Cross in a way that you can explain and make sense about it.


Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne;
love and faithfulness go before you." Psalm 89:14​

In spite of your unwillingness to answer honestly about that Scripture?

He is sovereignly allowing you to live in spite of your besmirching of His Justice, which is his foundation for His Throne. Throne = How He rules..
 
Back
Top Bottom