Johann
Well-known member
I hope more than a friend as we get to know each other whilst traversing on the highway of holiness-mere pilgrims/aliens and strangers- in this world.Yes he is my friend
J.
Why Calvinism is a bad thing.
- Thread starter Dizerner
- Start date
J.
GeneZ
Well-known member
I've got ya'll beat by a long shot- over 40 years
Your example is one of many of us as we grew out of our old wrong ways of thinking.
Just look at Peter!
He thought he could bypass God, and have men vote in Matthias as an apostle to fill the empty slot of Judas.
We all make mistakes until the Truth arrives at the front door.
e v e
Well-known member
God loves His souls...
and the fact that His creation was affected negatively by adam's disobedience,
and that as a result paradise was desolated (man being removed from His creation!),
means God is affected and Hurt by what happened
---- restoration of His Sons and Daughters is His most deep Desire.
He is not an impervious 'greek god'...
He is love... and in an intimate relationship with His souls.
* The very definition of 'substance' in the greeks as defined by them to be prime mover, the One, etc., is NOT love
but is a completely Unaffected and Sociopathic type of EVIL entity.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Of course God cares, loves and hurts... but that doesn't mean he gets off his throne and puts us on it.
He maintains his authority, power, holiness and justice all throughout Scripture, and nowhere will you find him giving that up for love.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Before man was created?
What example in all creation did God have to show his angels why He needed to condemn the fallen angels?
Fallen angels whom before they fell they loved as brothers?
How could God show them what jealousy and murder produces if no angel could die?
No animal's death for example would make the kind of sense God needed to show the angels,
especially the angels who did not fall, what was a foreign concept to them.
What perfectly *reflects* the emotions and attitudes of angels? God created man in His image.
Angels are also called sons of God. They too, were created in God's image.
The Fall of Adam and mankind's following with manifested depravity, set the stage for God to teach by man's example
all the angels why his condemnation of Satan (for "only having a thought") is justified and righteous.
What example in all creation did God have to show his angels why He needed to condemn the fallen angels?
Fallen angels whom before they fell they loved as brothers?
How could God show them what jealousy and murder produces if no angel could die?
No animal's death for example would make the kind of sense God needed to show the angels,
especially the angels who did not fall, what was a foreign concept to them.
What perfectly *reflects* the emotions and attitudes of angels? God created man in His image.
Angels are also called sons of God. They too, were created in God's image.
The Fall of Adam and mankind's following with manifested depravity, set the stage for God to teach by man's example
all the angels why his condemnation of Satan (for "only having a thought") is justified and righteous.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Fallen angels know what they were doing.
They sinned in the full light, and this is why they cannot be redeemed.
e v e
Well-known member
I never said anything contrary to what i marked red of course...
Dizerner
Well-known member
It does logically follow then, that God's holiness is more important than my own personal security.
Else I set myself up as an idol over God himself, and make him kind of a butler.
e v e
Well-known member
These are not causally related...
e v e
Well-known member
For me, what is important is to Meet Him and be IN Him...
calvinism, as well as free willism, a sort of duality choice...
both deny meeting Him... claiming that to do so
would mean He would speak again since nothing He says
can be changed.
This is a corruption of the concept... Of course He can speak
and modern isms cannot stop Him from speaking...
But what it means is that what He speaks is His Nature,
and nothing outside of His nature...
whereas both calvinism and free willism, as movements, are
based upon concepts of the evil realm.
calvinism, as well as free willism, a sort of duality choice...
both deny meeting Him... claiming that to do so
would mean He would speak again since nothing He says
can be changed.
This is a corruption of the concept... Of course He can speak
and modern isms cannot stop Him from speaking...
But what it means is that what He speaks is His Nature,
and nothing outside of His nature...
whereas both calvinism and free willism, as movements, are
based upon concepts of the evil realm.
e v e
Well-known member
I don't believe I have much if any free will...
because I am utterly dependent on God ...
the only choice I have had is whether to repent
and listen to Him or if NOT to do that...
and I choose to Listen to Him...
and not His enemy.
Beyond that, this place is a bit like decorating
a prison cell... all the choices here (lol free will)
are of little importance compared to Meeting Him
and going Home asap to our land, which is Paradise,
what we lost because of adam.
because I am utterly dependent on God ...
the only choice I have had is whether to repent
and listen to Him or if NOT to do that...
and I choose to Listen to Him...
and not His enemy.
Beyond that, this place is a bit like decorating
a prison cell... all the choices here (lol free will)
are of little importance compared to Meeting Him
and going Home asap to our land, which is Paradise,
what we lost because of adam.
e v e
Well-known member
When I was teaching at university, in a catholic university, In the student union area where food was sold, were some steps going down to the cafeteria.... and there were signs posted there, as one went down the steps, which said things like "learn to take charge of your future", "find out how you can achieve professional success".
What horrible lying slogans to try to impress upon youth.
I was in the philosophy-theology joint dept... and the place was run by a trans insane chair. The ethics dept was under my dept... and it was entirely caught up in 'free will'. I did not and avoided ever to apply to teach any of their "ethics" classes as I was not going to promote their swill. Catholic institutions are mostly augustinian and of course they go by augustine's free will text, a disaster from start to finish.
What horrible lying slogans to try to impress upon youth.
I was in the philosophy-theology joint dept... and the place was run by a trans insane chair. The ethics dept was under my dept... and it was entirely caught up in 'free will'. I did not and avoided ever to apply to teach any of their "ethics" classes as I was not going to promote their swill. Catholic institutions are mostly augustinian and of course they go by augustine's free will text, a disaster from start to finish.
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e v e
Well-known member
Free will is free doom. It did not exist as a concept until the early modern period. Previously all that was understood was the concept of utter submission to a deity, with some sort of 'appearance' of free choice among earthly, perishable, useless goods. The idea of free will was an entirely satanic project, tied very very heavily to occasionalism, which I won't go into, since they seem like opposites but are basically two sides of the same satanic coin.
The only being free possible is by accepting Christ and going Home to paradise.
The only being free possible is by accepting Christ and going Home to paradise.
Dizerner
Well-known member
You cannot even think or say a statement like the one you stated without logic.
Your statement is self-contradictory and undermines the very meaning it attempts to convey.
If there is no logic, then nothing need make any coherent sense or have order.
You seem to have mistake ideas of what free will is.
The Bible says "choose ye this day," it does not say "let God choose for ye this day."
We all make a choice about God.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Those who willfully remain ignorant of why God necessitates times for us suffering, are doomed to remain suffering till they are taken out of this life.
Ignorance of God's Word, and over riding what the knowledge of God would say contrary to our personal desire?
Becomes translated into God's punishment that becomes self deserved.
Proverbs 12:1 is God laying it on the line for all His own.
If God's Word says it?
Are we to be shy about it when it applies to someone who is repeatedly refusing correction, and insisting that we walk in their error?
Jesus commanded his disciples to love one another as He had loved them.
That includes the time He chewed out Peter, and told Peter is was acting like Satan.
Matthew 16:21-23
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many
things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed
and on the third day be raised to life.
Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”
Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not
have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”
God gives us certain commands as to avoid having certain obstinate believers from wearing us out.
grace and peace ........................
Ignorance of God's Word, and over riding what the knowledge of God would say contrary to our personal desire?
Becomes translated into God's punishment that becomes self deserved.
Proverbs 12:1 is God laying it on the line for all His own.
"Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but whoever hates correction is stupid."
If God's Word says it?
Are we to be shy about it when it applies to someone who is repeatedly refusing correction, and insisting that we walk in their error?
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another;
as I have loved you, that you also love one another." John 13:34
Jesus commanded his disciples to love one another as He had loved them.
That includes the time He chewed out Peter, and told Peter is was acting like Satan.
Matthew 16:21-23
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many
things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed
and on the third day be raised to life.
Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”
Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not
have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”
God gives us certain commands as to avoid having certain obstinate believers from wearing us out.
grace and peace ........................
GeneZ
Well-known member
God's love guides his actions as demanded by His justice in Righteousness
God wants all women who call on His name to become strong in grace and truth.
He will not hear the prayers of those who pray to Him in sin.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Full light? Shining upon what?
When Satan murdered the Lord privately in his heart?
The angels did not even have a concept of assassination and take over, which is murder.
Satan did not initially understand his inexcusable desire.
That is why God has to teach them why God condemned them.
Fallen man and how he acts makes for God's perfect teaching tool to accomplish that goal.
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