Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Agreed. Paul doesn't bother with "doctrine" when the focus is on getting people Born Again. Doctrine, after all saves NOBODY.
Paul DOES, however, toss "doctrines" around in the company of MATURE CHRISTIANS.
Why Calvinism is a bad thing.
- Thread starter Dizerner
- Start date
Agreed. Paul doesn't bother with "doctrine" when the focus is on getting people Born Again. Doctrine, after all saves NOBODY.
Paul DOES, however, toss "doctrines" around in the company of MATURE CHRISTIANS.
Yes, well a believer caught in sin will be rebuked and chastened. So the chances are they won't continue in it for long. Since we are assuming they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them, He will compel them to be faithful.
I am not a fan though of saying a believer will be continually faithful to the end and if not then never saved though. Carnal Christians do happen, believers do get caught in sin.
GeneZ
Well-known member
The reason Jesus had to warn that "He would lose none?"
And, that He would not drive anyone away?
Was because some pharisaical legalist will insist that David could not have been saved after adultery and murder..
And... (ahhhem) about the young man in Corinth who had been sleeping with his mother.
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me
I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my
will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who
sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them
up at the last day.
Not everyone saved becomes transformed after salvation...... That takes a desire (after salvation) to take up their cross and learn God's Word.
atpollard
Well-known member
No argument that “believers do get caught in sin” … John went through a lot of effort to assure us that we had an advocate that WOULD forgive us when we asked (1 John 1:9 & 1 John 2:1).
Since it is NOT a biblical term, what is a “Carnal Christian”?
GeneZ
Well-known member
It is Biblical from the King James....
1 Corinthians 3:3-4 KJV
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions,
are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am
of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
"Carnal" is like we see with chili con carne. (chili and meat/flesh)
civic
Well-known member
I think in the context of 1 Corinthians 2-3 its the person who is living by the flesh and not being controlled by the Spirit who is carnal. Those who should be mature but yet are still babes in the Lord. Would you agree ? Thanks !
Johann
Well-known member
A simplistic, good read-
Anyone in agreement?
J.
civic
Well-known member
Me tooI’m into Bible-ism.
Johann
Well-known member
Irresistible Grace contradicts the Bible because:
A. Man looses his freewill and his actions are not the result of his personal choices:
Calvinists will actually argue that they do not personally have a free will to choose anything.
Man becomes a puppet/robot of either
Devil: "The Devil made me do it"
God: "God forced me into becoming a Christian although I was having fun as a sinner"
Passages that prove man has a free will and God expects man to choose to do right
Deut 30:15-18; Josh 24:15; Jn 15:6-7; 3:16
Man can "resist the Holy Spirit": Acts 6:10; 7:51-55
Without free will, many of Bible statements make no sense:
"Why do you call me Lord & don't do what I say" Lk 6:46 Why? God willed it that way!
"Whosoever believes shall be saved" Jn 3:16 (Rather whosoever God makes a believer)
"Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Re 22:17
"And whosoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them." Lk 9:5 (Testimony against God you mean)
"Come to me you who are heavy laden and I will give you rest" Mt 11:28
How can man be held accountable to God for his actions in judgment without freewill?
"We must all appear before the judgment that each may be repaid for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." 2 Cor 5:10
Is it fair to send someone to hell for sins he was forced to commit having no freewill?
It contradicts the parable of talents where man is held accountable for his actions. Mt 25:19.
Negates the importance of man's obedience.
civic
Well-known member
Johann
Well-known member
Have read it and it makes so much sense-still scarred when I was introduced to Calvinism about 4 years ago, maybe longer.
I am not against Calvin per se-we can glean wonderful truths even there re the Sovereignty of God-but when the sword of the Spirit cuts at one of the five pillars-the whole structure MUST come down.
Well done brother.
J.
civic
Well-known member
Even the Calvinist theologian Lorraine Boettner confessed if you take just one down they all fall. They all stand it fall on each other and go tumbling down.
Johann
Well-known member
We are to try the spirits-ominous times we are living in brother.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
I believe we all are guilty to overcomplicate the Scriptures-everyone of us believe we have our own theology right-right?
When-
(2 Cor. 11:3.) And I tell you throughout the world the minds of men have been corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ, and they have taught the commandments of men rather than the simple truths revealed in the Lord's holy word.
11:3 "as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness"
This refers to the temptation account found in Genesis 3 (cf. 1 Tim. 2:14). Remember the serpent led Eve away from YHWH in small steps leading to self-assertive independence!
The term deceived (exapataō) is used only by Paul in the NT (cf. Rom. 7:11; 16:18; 1 Cor. 3:18; 2 Cor. 11:3; 2 Thess. 2:3; 1 Tim. 2:14). The unintensified form, apataō, is used in the Septuagint of Gen. 3:13 of Eve. Paul uses it in Eph. 5:6 and 1 Tim. 2:14 (twice). Deception comes both from without and within. Believers must be constantly on guard.
The term craftiness (panourgia) is a compound from "all" (pan) and "work" (ergon). Paul has used it twice before in his Corinthian letters (cf. 1 Cor. 3:19; 2 Cor. 4:2). Paul understood the spiritual warfare which believers had to face (cf. Eph. 4:14). He states the results of evil on mankind clearly in Romans 1-3 and on believers in Romans 7; Eph. 6:10-19. Paul's theology begins with angelic and human rebellion.
Special Topic: The Serpent
Special Topic: Schemes
"your minds will be led astray"
The VERB phtheirō is an AORIST PASSIVE SUBJUNCTIVE. In a further allusion to Genesis 3 Paul used this term for "ruin" or "spoil" in a moral sense several times (cf. 2 Cor. 7:2; 11:3; 1 Cor. 3:17; 15:33; Eph. 4:22). Believers can be tricked, manipulated, and defeated by evil!
Utley.
I fear time is running out brother. Are we uttering the oracles of God to a lost and dying world-or am I here to give myself a pat on my shoulder saying-Well done Johann?
I admit and confess-I don't have it altogether, just a work in progress.
Shalom
J.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Can we just finally admit it that TULIP was dumb?
That it was a phase in experimental church history?
They tried it. And, now we know it fails to bring believers to maturity in Christ.
TULIP most likely caught on like it did because it was a less severe alternative to the tyrannical insanity of the RCC.
Like we see daily being attempted with the fake news and the media? The god of this world, Satan, has an incessant
lust to gain absolute control over what men do and think. TULIP was just another approach he got through the door
by imposing a seemingly "tolerable" form of mind control via the Sovereignty of God rationale.
As long as it keeps believers from finding truth? Satan will use it.
For its the Truth that sets us free from Satan's control lust.
grace and peace ......................
That it was a phase in experimental church history?
They tried it. And, now we know it fails to bring believers to maturity in Christ.
TULIP most likely caught on like it did because it was a less severe alternative to the tyrannical insanity of the RCC.
Like we see daily being attempted with the fake news and the media? The god of this world, Satan, has an incessant
lust to gain absolute control over what men do and think. TULIP was just another approach he got through the door
by imposing a seemingly "tolerable" form of mind control via the Sovereignty of God rationale.
As long as it keeps believers from finding truth? Satan will use it.
For its the Truth that sets us free from Satan's control lust.
grace and peace ......................
civic
Well-known member
I've got ya'll beat by a long shot- over 40 years
I was one.
Johann
Well-known member
A process-sanctification-and to DENY the ego eimi-yes! 100%
Johann
Well-known member
Must have been a deep and mighty act of God-mercy and grace-for you to "see with the eyes of your understanding" since we have the mind of Christ Jesus- the insipid teaching of TULIP.I've got ya'll beat by a long shot- over 40 years
No assurance of our eternal salvation and destination there.
J.
civic
Well-known member
Yes he is my friend
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