civic
Well-known member
Sin and evil are not Gods original creation . Everything God created was Good.Logically, there is only one first cause. Which would be creation.
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Your first cause argument is a major failure.
Why are Calvinists so mean ?
- Thread starter civic
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Next fallacy
Your first cause argument is a major failure.
But God is there first cause as creator. No creation, no sin and evil. No serpent, no garden, no Eve, no tree and so on.
Do some studying
civic
Well-known member
No evil no sin everything God created was good.
Believe the Bible not the philosophy of man.
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Was the serpent good?
Obadiah
Well-known member
At one time till he till he chose to exalt himself above God
So God created Him knowing exactly what He was going to do. Purposely
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
If God did not plan for the serpent to "go bad", then God made a defective creature.
The same applies to man. If man is born fundamentally good, then man is also created fundamentally defective, because we all "go bad". That's a problem for those who believe we are fundamentally good.
civic
Well-known member
Yes Bible truth 101
Obadiah
Well-known member
Man was created good before the fall
Obadiah
Well-known member
I only know what the Bible says I must have missed that verse
So they were created for no reason? God had no idea? It was some sort of creative opps? You missed logic class
Obadiah
Well-known member
Who's they? God created Satan to be the worship leader. Don't blame God because Satan chose to be disobedient.
atpollard
Well-known member
The PLAN of God predates His creation ... therefore any NON-FIRST CAUSE that impacts God must exist outside of creation ... that comes from the very DEFINITION of causality. Unless one is prepared to advance into "semantics" (the philosophy that words create reality, not the common definition), then even GOD is subject to "causality" [in the sense that He was either CAUSED or NOT CAUSED]. Without a framework of REALITY, conversation is meaningless [as a former Nihilist, I speak from empirical experience
].
atpollard
Well-known member
Genesis 50:20 [NASB] "As for you, you meant evil against me, [but] God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive."
Not only did the evil that befell Joseph cross God's mind, God placed a heavy thumb on the scale to direct its course and make it integral to His SALVATION PLAN [from eternity past].
What would the Lord's Supper mean if Joseph had never gone to Egypt?
- No slavery.
- No Passover.
- No Passover Lamb.
- No Festival.
- No slavery analogy.
- No Moses/staff analogy in John 3.
- No blood of the Lamb analogy.
- No saved from Death analogy.
- No testing in the Wilderness analogy.
atpollard
Well-known member
Why is there a second person to the Trinity?
[Just in case?]
(you almost appear to advocate that the fall caught God by surprise and I AM shifted to PLAN B.)
atpollard
Well-known member
"Very Good" ... in point of fact.
Even VERY GOOD is not PERFECT ... God is PERFECT ... the only true "yardstick". He creates what He will according to "His good pleasure" [Philippians 2:13] and "works all things after the counsel of His will" [Ephesians 1:11].
In other words: "God does as He pleases and He does it right well" -Corrie Ten Boon.
Wrong textGenesis 50:20 [NASB] "As for you, you meant evil against me, [but] God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive."
Not only did the evil that befell Joseph cross God's mind, God placed a heavy thumb on the scale to direct its course and make it integral to His SALVATION PLAN [from eternity past].
What would the Lord's Supper mean if Joseph had never gone to Egypt?
... boy, WE sure got LUCKY that things worked out the way God "hoped" they might.
- No slavery.
- No Passover.
- No Passover Lamb.
- No Festival.
- No slavery analogy.
- No Moses/staff analogy in John 3.
- No blood of the Lamb analogy.
- No saved from Death analogy.
- No testing in the Wilderness analogy.
Jeremiah 32:35 (KJV 1900) — 35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Jeremiah 19:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
Jeremiah 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
is what Civic has in mind
Obadiah
Well-known member
And in the same words: So does Satan, the 3 million Jews that didn't survive the holocaust are proof of that.
But first, we should understand that knowing Satan would rebel is not the same thing as making Satan rebel. The angel Lucifer had a free will and made his own choices. God did not create Lucifer as the devil; He created him perfect.
God is a yardstick, oh brother. That's the worst analogy ever.
I believe that God creates all things perfect because He is awesome and perfect.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
God could have prevented the fall, but He chose to make it certain. How is that different than making certain that Satan fell?
Except He knew what was going to happen. So did He have a purpose in what would eventually happened or no?
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