Who was the Book of John Addressed to?

@GodsGrace

Greetings dear sister,

Some things in religion are confusing,
Sorry Red,,,,I realize you don't know me well enough yet,,,
but I didn't mean that I find Christianity confusing...
I meant that what YOU were saying is confusing.
I'm not checking back to see what it was, but let me make this clear
CHRISTIANITY IS NOT CONFUSING.

God inspired the entire bible so we could get to know Him.
The NT, specifically, was to teach us about the New Covenant and how to enter into it for salvation.

(mainly folks that profess, I fully understand different teaching, and why) that I leave it in God's hands. I have close friends that I believe love and fear God, yet strongly disagree with me, not only concerning Soteriology, but on almost everything, from eschatology, church government, you name it they go the other way. Nevertheless, I just show them the kindness of God and we have no fellowship, and go our separate ways. And I submit to such scriptures as:

2 Timothy 2:19​

“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
Yes sir. God certainly knows those that are His.
Here's the difference between me and you:
I believe ANYONE could come to salvation IF they WANT to.
YOU believe that those saved were saved from the beginning through no choice of theirs and
for no apparent reason.
This is a big difference.
You say you submit to this verse/scripture.

So what exactly are you submitting to?
EVERY Christian believes God knows those that are His.

Are you perhaps reading something into this verse that is not stated?
Even when I do not.

I know too well, what they say, yet as soon as the words come out of their mouth, they will boldly and forcefully push salvation by their own works.

Fran, faith on man's part is a work, and if a work, then it had to be a work of the old man, "A.K.A" the flesh! That goes against just about every teaching in every NT book from Matthew to Revelation. That is another gospel that God Almighty has put a curse upon.
Faith is not a work because Paul states it clearly.
Do we believe ALL of the NT or just the parts we like?

Romans 4:2-5
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM
BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
4
Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
,

Romans 3:28
28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 11:6
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.



We are saved by FAITH ....and not by works.
Ephesians 2:8-9
No amount of works can save us.
NOW....if you want to discuss if works are necessary AFTER we're saved...that is a different topic which I'm willing to discuss.
Ephesians 2:10 WE ARE CREATED FOR GOOD WORKS....

Salvation in all denominations is BY FAITH ALONE.
It is by the GRACE OF GOD...
It is a FREE GIFT for anyone that would like to open that gift box.
There are NO WORKS involved...it's free.

Fran, this is the word of the Living God, I did not write them, but, I do believe in each and every word herein and so must you. The flesh, or, the old man which is all the unregenerate sinner has to be a means of pleasing God, yet the scriptures clearly said to us, that the flesh/old man is not subject to the law of God, and neither indeed can be!
You don't post scripture....you should.
However, you say the flesh is not subject to the law of God.
AGREED!
The lost are not subject to God's commandments.
Why would they be?
They're lost....they can't be more lost than lost.

It's the BELIEVER that is subject to obeying God.
It is US that Jesus was speaking about in Matthew 7:23....
we are the wise builders that listened and obeyed.


Knowing this truth, pray to tell me just how a sinner can do anything as far as being born again, anything. To say that he can, is to call God a liar, for God's word has spoken and it is right before our eyes to see the truth. Why would any man be so bold to go against what is clearly written by the Spirit of the Living God truly amazes me, and still hear them say, they trust the word of God, when their opportunity to prove it, they fight against God's testimony of what he has written for our learning. That's the spirit of the man of sin working through such folks, who as children of God can see their strong delusion, especially so in light of such scriptures as Romans 8, etc.
You'll have to post some scripture Red....
You'll have to post some scripture that supports your claim that man is not able to seek God...
That the NT has no conditions by which a person can be saved....

Where is this clearly written?
What I see written is that the NT was written SPECIFICALLY so that we can know HOW to become saved.
Is there another reason why it was written?
IF you believe so,,,please post scripture as to the WHY we have the NT.


Here's one reason:
1 John 1:1-4
1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life -
2 and the life was manifested, and we have
seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us-
3 what we have
seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4 These
things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.


John goes on to state HOW to achieve this joy for which he writes.

Fran, it is called rightly dividing the word of truth. The sinner who is not first born of God, is seen in Romans 3; whereas, the many hundreds of scriptures teaching us to seek, etc., can only be applied to those already children of God,
Excuse me Red.
If we're ALREADY BORN OF GOD
WHY would we need to seek God?

We are implored to SEEK GOD both in the OT and the NT ---there are tens of verses -I think you know them....
So you're saying that we're to seek God AFTER we've already found Him?

Again...scripture please.

or, only those that are can truly heed what is being spoken. It is not that hard to separate and understand especially so when we adhere to the teaching of the depravity of man apart from the grace of God shown to the sinner. I read for devotion last night to the grandchildren:

John 2:25​

“And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.”
So?
All Christians believe man is born depraved and with a sin nature....flesh...concupiscense...call it what you will.

WHERE does it state that this makes man UNABLE to seek after God?
NOWHERE.

Scripture please.

And it is not good, not even close!

Dear soul, they present no problem to me, and neither should they to you.

Nehemiah 8:8​

“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Praise be to the Lord! May God, who is gracious above all, be so to you precious friend. But, one question to my dear sister:

1st Corinthians 4:7​

“For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?”

Fran, it was the Lord that cause you to leave ~many never do, especially being so close to Rome as far as living where you do.. Amazing grace indeed to our sister!
Red....The scriptures present no problem to me.
I don't need Strong's to understand a verse....
and I don't need to twist verse as Calvinists do to make them read what they would like them to read.
I don't add to scripture either.

And forget about Rome. That was 40 years ago.
What I said is this:
IF I could come out of a denomination...
anyone could.

It takes going through scripture on your own and understanding it before
some denomination washes your brain out.

Whatever one is taught
MUST align with scripture and MUST make sense - and I mean logical sense.

Maybe God's ways are not our ways...
but Jesus didn't go to that cross so we could be confused about the gospel
and/or not understand what we need to do in order to be saved.
 
@MTMattie

Let the word of God answer this for you.

Romans 8:28-34​

“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”

Many will immediately after just quoting scriptures as I'm now doing, will rise up and say: I do not believe what you are saying, when all we have done so far is quote the word of God ~ that has happened so many times over the last fifty plus years of proclaiming God's testimony concerning his truth. I think you are one of the many.

In these scriptures one shall see the Spirit’s carefully chosen words say it is whom He foreknew, "not" what He foreknew.
WHOM God FOREKNEW
is different from
GOD DECREEING WHO WILL BE SAVED.

KNOWING is different from PREDESTINATING.


What God foreknew about us was sinful rebellion, without exception (Ps 14:1-3; 53:1-3). He shall deny He ever knew the wicked – He never loved them (Matt 7:23; Ps 5:5; 11:5). He loved His elect from everlasting, and always shall (Jer 31:3; Eph 1:4; 5:25; Rev 13:8). God’s choice and love of the elect also predestinated them to adoption (see Eph 1:3-6).
Post a couple of your verse in parenthesis (as if we're supposed to know the bible word for word by heart)
and then explain HOW they mean that the person is depraved...YES
but UNABLE to come to salvation.....
THIS it does NOT state....
because it cannot...because man has free will and can decide if he wishes to be saved.

God loves THE WHOLE WORLD
John 3:16
AND NOT ONLY THE ELECT.

Please post scripture.
Predestination, though hated and unpopular today, is a Bible doctrine we should and do love.
No Red.
PREDESTINATION is a heresy.
A Heresy.

Find out what a heresy is please.

This Bible doctrine, which makes me a predestinarian Baptists, is here and in Eph 1:5,11. What does it mean? It means God determined and guaranteed our destination beforehand.
Could you PLEASE post Eph 1:5-11 and show HOW it is stating that you were chosen by God before time began.
Thanks.
There is no logical way to believe the God of the Bible and reject predestination of men. If God knows all that will happen on certain conditions, why did He bring them to pass? Arminians have God predestinating men to the lake of fire just as much as any doctrine of salvation.
This is a problem you have because you do not believe in free will.

When we wander from the teachings of the bible...
they become confusing and not understandable.

Those of us that believe in free will have NO PROBLEM with any scripture.

Predestination precedes, rather than follows, conforming, for it is unconditional election! God’s purpose in creating the world and saving sinners is to build His family through Christ. God will do all that is necessary, which is considerable, to make sinners look like Jesus! Among the children of God, which He gave to Christ to save, Jesus will be preeminent! The drama of the whole universe is God’s display of saving grace in perfecting sinners! This references glorification rather than conversion, as scripture and experience prove, for we reject any doctrine of perseverance that guarantees practical sanctification. We shall be joint-heirs with Jesus as brothers, but He shall be the Firstborn (Col 1:15-18). We shall enjoy the fullest joy possible, as we will be glorified sons of God (Ist John 3:1-3). A day is coming, described here (8:17-25), when Jesus will own us as family (Heb 2:13). The basis and ground of the liberty of the sons of God is God’s predestination (8:29-30).

We shall stop and may come back and say more....
I believe @MTMattie will probably not agree with you because no other denomination does.
But we'll see.
ONLY the reformed/calvinists believe as they do.
This is why it's a heretical teaching.

Heretical means to teach something that is different from the accepted rules/norms/ conditions/ teachings of any matter,
especially theological.
Calvinism is not orthodox (small o).
 

Thank you Red. You answered me honestly and with full conviction as you always do. But... I had asked " If one is not of the "predestined" belief. Will that doom them to miss out on a heavenly eternity?" And reading the following... I guess so.



Let the word of God answer this for you.

Romans 8:28-34

“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”

Many will immediately after just quoting scriptures as I'm now doing, will rise up and say: I do not believe what you are saying, when all we have done so far is quote the word of God ~ that has happened so many times over the last fifty plus years of proclaiming God's testimony concerning his truth. I think you are one of the many.

In these scriptures one shall see the Spirit’s carefully chosen words say it is whom He foreknew, "not" what He foreknew.

What God foreknew about us was sinful rebellion, without exception (Ps 14:1-3; 53:1-3). He shall deny He ever knew the wicked – He never loved them (Matt 7:23; Ps 5:5; 11:5). He loved His elect from everlasting, and always shall (Jer 31:3; Eph 1:4; 5:25; Rev 13:8). God’s choice and love of the elect also predestinated them to adoption (see Eph 1:3-6).

Predestination, though hated and unpopular today, is a Bible doctrine we should and do love.

This Bible doctrine, which makes me a predestinarian Baptists, is here and in Eph 1:5,11. What does it mean? It means God determined and guaranteed our destination beforehand. There is no logical way to believe the God of the Bible and reject predestination of men. If God knows all that will happen on certain conditions, why did He bring them to pass? Arminians have God predestinating men to the lake of fire

CORRECTION: THAT WOULD BE THE KING OF PREDESTINATION... JOHN CALVIN WHO WROTE....


Predestination According to Calvin (here is the link: https://www.theologian-theology.com/theologians/john-calvin-predestination/)

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death (180, 184).” Calvin was careful to distinguish the predestination of individuals from the corporate election of nations such as Israel (185). He argued that an explanation of predestination is only complete when it includes the election of individuals (187).
You see Red. Under predestination, Calvin style and Westminster Confession of Faith style
God pick those to be saved, and god chose those to be denied salvation. And if you say that is not so... Calvin would tell you you are wrong.
It is alright. Calvin said we would die. Its just the lake of fire I dont want any part of..
and you always indicated there was none...
Thank you again.

just as much as any doctrine of salvation.

Predestination precedes, rather than follows, conforming, for it is unconditional election! God’s purpose in creating the world and saving sinners is to build His family through Christ. God will do all that is necessary, which is considerable, to make sinners look like Jesus! Among the children of God, which He gave to Christ to save, Jesus will be preeminent! The drama of the whole universe is God’s display of saving grace in perfecting sinners! This references glorification rather than conversion, as scripture and experience prove, for we reject any doctrine of perseverance that guarantees practical sanctification. We shall be joint-heirs with Jesus as brothers, but He shall be the Firstborn (Col 1:15-18). We shall enjoy the fullest joy possible, as we will be glorified sons of God (Ist John 3:1-3). A day is coming, described here (8:17-25), when Jesus will own us as family (Heb 2:13). The basis and ground of the liberty of the sons of God is God’s predestination (8:29-30).

We shall stop and may come back and say more....
 
Thank you Red. You answered me honestly and with full conviction as you always do. But... I had asked " If one is not of the "predestined" belief. Will that doom them to miss out on a heavenly eternity?" And reading the following... I guess so.


CORRECTION: THAT WOULD BE THE KING OF PREDESTINATION... JOHN CALVIN WHO WROTE....

Predestination According to Calvin (here is the link: https://www.theologian-theology.com/theologians/john-calvin-predestination/)

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death (180, 184).” Calvin was careful to distinguish the predestination of individuals from the corporate election of nations such as Israel (185). He argued that an explanation of predestination is only complete when it includes the election of individuals (187).
You see Red. Under predestination, Calvin style and Westminster Confession of Faith style
God pick those to be saved, and god chose those to be denied salvation. And if you say that is not so... Calvin would tell you you are wrong.
It is alright. Calvin said we would die. Its just the lake of fire I dont want any part of..
and you always indicated there was none...
Thank you again.
You're right MT.
Not only are you right....
but if you read the Institutes that John Calvin wrote...you'd find that Calvinists
CANNOT BE SECURE IN THEIR SALVATION.

How do you like that?
Calvinism goes against everything that Jesus taught and that the NT teaches.

Besides which....doctrine will not save anyone...
but only belief in God and obedience to God.
 
Besides which....doctrine will not save anyone...
but only belief in God and obedience to God.
@GodsGrace

Fran, look for a post sometime later today, or first thing in the morning. Fran, glad you came out of Catholicism, but your doctrine is still 100% agreeable with them and you unite with them against the true gospel of the grace of God, and that I will prove to you, God being my helper.

I'm glad you were more forceful in your post to me, this time, which in turn allows me to do the same. Sometimes we move slow and easy with folks since we do not know them, yet, we truly need to be as forceful as we should be, in order to help, and to let others know how firm is our conviction to the truth.

As far as providing scriptures proof, trust there will be plenty for you to consider.
Besides which....doctrine will not save anyone...
but only belief in God and obedience to God.
So wrong~the only means that saves anyone from sin and condemnation is the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ; our faith and obedience is at best is only evidence of one's salvation which Christ alone secured for God's elect.
 
You're right MT.
Not only are you right....
but if you read the Institutes that John Calvin wrote...you'd find that Calvinists
CANNOT BE SECURE IN THEIR SALVATION.

How do you like that?
Calvinism goes against everything that Jesus taught and that the NT teaches.

Besides which....doctrine will not save anyone...
but only belief in God and obedience to God.
Right,

But the interesting thing about predestined believers.... NOT ALL follow Calvin. Therefore they will discount what he said.

" only belief in God and obedience to God." (y) But I will add Faith in Jesus to this.
 
CHRISTIANITY IS NOT CONFUSING.
It is not, but religion and religious folk are, that's all I meant.
God inspired the entire bible so we could get to know Him.
The NT, specifically, was to teach us about the New Covenant and how to enter into it for salvation.
I agree with your first statement.

Your second statement is wrong, and only shows your lack of knowledge of the truth as it is in Jesus Christ.

The New covenant is a covenant of pure grace; a gospel of good news, concerning how God made Jesus to be sin for his people, that they might be made the righteousness of God based upon what he secured for them, by his faith and obedience. 2nd Corinthians 5:17-19; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9

The New covenant was never given to show man how to enter into it for salvation! That's the message of the first old covenant, under which God found fault with man, not his covenant but man being unable to obey in order to inherit eternal life.

Hebrews 8:7,8​

“For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:”

The New Covenant is based upon two immutable acts of God...his oath and promises of grace to the seed of Jesus Christ. Hebrews 6:13-19.
Here's the difference between me and you: I believe ANYONE could come to salvation IF they WANT to. YOU believe that those saved were saved from the beginning through no choice of theirs and for no apparent reason. This is a big difference.
The difference is one is by the works of the flesh, (yours) the other is totally of God. One has God's curse pronounced upon it, because it is another gospel pure and simple. The other is of God approved by him and preached by his apostles and all of those whom God has called.

What does John 1:13 mean to you Fran? Honestly, what does it mean?

John 1:13​

“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

Which were born.

What plurality was born – not by three rejected means – but by one true means? The plural pronoun which refers to a plurality of those that believe on Christ. The plural verb were refers to this plurality of those believing on the Lord. Those that received Jesus Christ were the exact same ones believing on Him. Those believing on Jesus Christ in the present were already the sons of God. When were they born – based on actual verb tenses – rather than order of verbs? The phrase were born is a plural number, passive voice, present-perfect verb tense, demanding the action was finished, or perfected, before the present. Rejoice in the grammar of regeneration, which demands birth before faith. Of course they were born naturally before faith, but this is being born again. Let it be settled once and for all time, regeneration always precedes faith.

Not of blood.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with natural descent, pedigree, etc. The Jews especially had this problem, for they trusted in Abraham (Luke 3:8). Descent and nationalism were real problems of Jews (Is 48:1-8; Ro 2:17-29). Paul declared Abraham’s children are not the children of God (Rom 9:6-8). We are the seed of Abraham, for we are Christ’s, his true Seed (Ga 3:16,29).

Nor of the will of the flesh.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with "your natural will or choice." This phrase condemns the decisional regeneration heresy of Arminian fools. These heretics will do anything to elicit a choice by the flesh to get saved. They talk ad nauseam about the simplicity of getting yourself born again. Prior to being born again, all you have is a flesh nature that is denied here. Not only is the will of the flesh denied, but it is impossible for it to so will. A man in the flesh cannot and will not please God; he is a depraved rebel. God’s compassion and mercy are by His own will, not man’s (Rom 9:15-16). If you ever will good to God, it is He that worked it in you (Phil 2:12-13). Only God’s will is active (John 3:8; 5:21; Eph 1:5; Jas 1:18; Heb 10:9-10).

What is the will of the flesh that is rejected here as the means of regeneration? You have two natures – one by first birth and one by spiritual birth (Jn 3:6). The will of the flesh is all you have before regeneration – the sinful you. Therefore, this phrase denies any choice or act of will before regeneration! Until you are born again, this is the only will you have – that of the flesh. Paul denied that anything you do in the flesh can please God (Rom 8:7-8).

Nor of the will of man.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with the will of anyone outside you. This phrase condemns parental efforts to save infants as in Roman Catholicism. By far the most popular method of salvation of Christians is infant baptism. Parents take children to some priest to be baptized to become God’s child. The parents choose godparents to guarantee the child of God will be taught There is nothing a parent can do to assist or cooperate for salvation (Ps 49:6-9). No other man has any influence on you being born again, except for One Man!

The work of salvation is all found in one man’s obedience (Rom 5:12-19). There is no place for parents, pastors, priests, or soul winners for eternal life. In Him was life! He is the Life! He is resurrection and life! He has the keys!

But of God.

Becoming God’s son by being born again is His monergistic, sovereign work. John called it being born again from Jesus (Jn 3:1-8; I Jn 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-5,18). James and Peter also refer to it as a birth or begetting (Jas 1:18; I Pet 1:3,23). Paul used quickening (Ep 2:1-3; Col 2:13), regeneration, renewing (Tit 3:5). This creative work by God’s power gives each elect person a new spiritual man. We are God’s workmanship, created in Christ unto good works (Eph 2:10). This work by God Himself is compared to wind blowing by Jesus (Jn 3:8). This is the work of Christ Jesus raising dead souls to spiritual life (Jn 5:25). It is called a quickening of man from his natural state of spiritual death.

Regeneration should never be considered outside the full operation of salvation. If God does not quicken a person, they will never receive Christ (I Co 2:14). If you ever will good to God, it is He that worked it in you (Phil 2:12-13). God only quickens some, so they are those elected to eternal life (Ac 13:48).

Just getting started, bear with me..
 
Right,

But the interesting thing about predestined believers.... NOT ALL follow Calvin. Therefore they will discount what he said.

" only belief in God and obedience to God." (y) But I will add Faith in Jesus to this.
Well Jesus IS GOD....same difference!

I know that not all call themselves Calvinists...
but we're talking about a nuance here.

If a person believes in the TULIP bullet points...
he's a Calvinist. Simple.

The Confessions, BTW, make Calvinism softer, but they still agree with TULIP.
 
@GodsGrace

Fran, look for a post sometime later today, or first thing in the morning. Fran, glad you came out of Catholicism, but your doctrine is still 100% agreeable with them and you unite with them against the true gospel of the grace of God, and that I will prove to you, God being my helper.

I'm glad you were more forceful in your post to me, this time, which in turn allows me to do the same. Sometimes we move slow and easy with folks since we do not know them, yet, we truly need to be as forceful as we should be, in order to help, and to let others know how firm is our conviction to the truth.

As far as providing scriptures proof, trust there will be plenty for you to consider.

So wrong~the only means that saves anyone from sin and condemnation is the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ; our faith and obedience is at best is only evidence of one's salvation which Christ alone secured for God's elect.
My reply is to your last sentence....not much to say on the rest.
You might want to show me how I'm Catholic sometimes since MOST of Protestant denominations agree with my understanding of the gospels.

I said that doctrine will not save anyone.
Only belief in God and obedience to God.
So, IOW, if YOU are wrong in your doctrine,,,
you believe you're headed downward instead of heaven?
Paul speaks about losing FAITH in the NT
He does NOT mention doctrine saving anyone...
unless you could show this.

YOU replied that only Jesus can secure our salvation.
IS JESUS NOT GOD??
Are you saying there's a difference between God and Jesus? One is Father and one is Son...2 person, ONE AND THE SAME GOD.
Right?

And you go on to say that Christ secured salvation ONLY for God's elect?
I think you must be aware that even some Reformed/Calvinist theologians do not accept LIMITED ATONEMENT.
But that's another topic. I did mention
1 John 2:2
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...not just the sins of the saved.
As Adam sold us to satan....everyone...
so Jesus bought us back....everyone.

But only those who FREELY accept God's gift of salvation will experience the outcome.
 
It is not, but religion and religious folk are, that's all I meant.

I agree with your first statement.

Your second statement is wrong, and only shows your lack of knowledge of the truth as it is in Jesus Christ.
You're going to have to stop telling me I lack knowledge.
You'd be banned for a month for doing this on another forum.

Because I DO NOT agree with you does not mean I'm not knowledgeable.

The New covenant is a covenant of pure grace; a gospel of good news,
The Covenant of Grace, as Reformed call it...
is otherwise known, in all of Christianity,
as the New Covenant.
You even give Covenants a different title.
And since you bring up that it's a gospel of good news...
here's a question for you:

WHAT IS THE GOOD NEWS in the gospel according to the reformed?
I don't see any since God is going to choose who He chooses no matter what.

Why even write a NT??
I asked you WHY the NT was written if not to teach us how to be saved.
Maybe you'll reply down below.
concerning how God made Jesus to be sin for his people, that they might be made the righteousness of God based upon what he secured for them, by his faith and obedience. 2nd Corinthians 5:17-19; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9
Are we in THEOLOGY or APOLOGETICS?
I think so.

In serious conversation we POST THE SCRIPTURE...we don't just list it.

BUT ANYWAY...

Did you just say that we're saved by THE FAITH OF JESUS?
And you found 3 verses that state this?
Please POST THE SCRIPTURE.
The New covenant was never given to show man how to enter into it for salvation! That's the message of the first old covenant, under which God found fault with man, not his covenant but man being unable to obey in order to inherit eternal life.
Could you please name the Covenant you're speaking of?

Could you please explain WHY God made the New Covenant...
which is UNCONDITIONAL AND UNILATERAL....

And could you please tell us the difference between the Mosaic Covenant (which I THINK is what you're alluding to)
and the New Covenant?
Thanks.

Hebrews 8:7,8​

“For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:”
The Mosaic Covenant was with fault only because MAN did not keep his part of the bargain.
That Covenant was CONDITIONA AND BILATERAL.

Man's part was to obey God.
He did not.

Please explain why we're discussing Covenants.
The New Covenant is based upon two immutable acts of God...his oath and promises of grace to the seed of Jesus Christ. Hebrews 6:13-19.

The difference is one is by the works of the flesh, (yours) the other is totally of God. One has God's curse pronounced upon it, because it is another gospel pure and simple. The other is of God approved by him and preached by his apostles and all of those whom God has called.
The other is TOTALLY OF GOD?
You mean the New Covenant?
It is totally by God....correct.
God makes it available, through Christ, to ALL MEN as was promised in the Abrahamic Covenant.
God does surely keep His promises.

So here, I'll save you some brain power:
The difference between the Mosaic and the New Covenant is the HOLY SPIRIT.

God demands obedience....IN ALL COVENANTS.

He demanded obedience in the Mosaic but they were unable.
He demands obedience in the New, and has sent His Holy Spirit to be our paraclete.
OBEDIENCE is still necessary.
John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Look at that Red...
Not only does John tell us HOW we can be saved - and it's by BELIEVING in the Son .
but
John also tells us how NOT to be saved --- by disobeying God.
No talk there of predestination to salvation...
as also there is no such talk in all of the NT.
What does John 1:13 mean to you Fran? Honestly, what does it mean?

John 1:13​

“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

Which were born.

What plurality was born – not by three rejected means – but by one true means? The plural pronoun which refers to a plurality of those that believe on Christ. The plural verb were refers to this plurality of those believing on the Lord. Those that received Jesus Christ were the exact same ones believing on Him. Those believing on Jesus Christ in the present were already the sons of God. When were they born – based on actual verb tenses – rather than order of verbs? The phrase were born is a plural number, passive voice, present-perfect verb tense, demanding the action was finished, or perfected, before the present. Rejoice in the grammar of regeneration, which demands birth before faith. Of course they were born naturally before faith, but this is being born again. Let it be settled once and for all time, regeneration always precedes faith.

Not of blood.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with natural descent, pedigree, etc. The Jews especially had this problem, for they trusted in Abraham (Luke 3:8). Descent and nationalism were real problems of Jews (Is 48:1-8; Ro 2:17-29). Paul declared Abraham’s children are not the children of God (Rom 9:6-8). We are the seed of Abraham, for we are Christ’s, his true Seed (Ga 3:16,29).
Agreed.
Nor of the will of the flesh.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with "your natural will or choice." This phrase condemns the decisional regeneration heresy of Arminian fools. These heretics will do anything to elicit a choice by the flesh to get saved. They talk ad nauseam about the simplicity of getting yourself born again. Prior to being born again, all you have is a flesh nature that is denied here. Not only is the will of the flesh denied, but it is impossible for it to so will. A man in the flesh cannot and will not please God; he is a depraved rebel. God’s compassion and mercy are by His own will, not man’s (Rom 9:15-16). If you ever will good to God, it is He that worked it in you (Phil 2:12-13). Only God’s will is active (John 3:8; 5:21; Eph 1:5; Jas 1:18; Heb 10:9-10).
The will of the flesh is works.
The Jews bloodline did not save them.

And their works could not save them.
Paul makes this very clear.
Ephesians 2:8-9 clarifies this:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a
result of works, so that no one may boast.
Also see John 1:11...it clearly states that His own did not accept/receive Him.....accept denotes a free will.+
11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.

But check out John 1:12
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

John explains who will be saved:
Those WHO RECEIVE Christ....to them He gave the right to become children of God.
No talk of predestination to salvation.
What is the will of the flesh that is rejected here as the means of regeneration? You have two natures – one by first birth and one by spiritual birth (Jn 3:6). The will of the flesh is all you have before regeneration – the sinful you. Therefore, this phrase denies any choice or act of will before regeneration! Until you are born again, this is the only will you have – that of the flesh. Paul denied that anything you do in the flesh can please God (Rom 8:7-8).

Nor of the will of man.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with the will of anyone outside you. This phrase condemns parental efforts to save infants as in Roman Catholicism. By far the most popular method of salvation of Christians is infant baptism. Parents take children to some priest to be baptized to become God’s child. The parents choose godparents to guarantee the child of God will be taught There is nothing a parent can do to assist or cooperate for salvation (Ps 49:6-9). No other man has any influence on you being born again, except for One Man!

The work of salvation is all found in one man’s obedience (Rom 5:12-19). There is no place for parents, pastors, priests, or soul winners for eternal life. In Him was life! He is the Life! He is resurrection and life! He has the keys!

But of God.

Becoming God’s son by being born again is His monergistic, sovereign work. John called it being born again from Jesus (Jn 3:1-8; I Jn 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-5,18). James and Peter also refer to it as a birth or begetting (Jas 1:18; I Pet 1:3,23). Paul used quickening (Ep 2:1-3; Col 2:13), regeneration, renewing (Tit 3:5). This creative work by God’s power gives each elect person a new spiritual man. We are God’s workmanship, created in Christ unto good works (Eph 2:10). This work by God Himself is compared to wind blowing by Jesus (Jn 3:8). This is the work of Christ Jesus raising dead souls to spiritual life (Jn 5:25). It is called a quickening of man from his natural state of spiritual death.
Of course monergism is not biblical.
If it was,,,,Jesus preached for nothing since HE was going to do it all.

Instead He spent over 3 years preaching about what He expected from us:
John 15:6
6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

WE MUST ABIDE IN CHRIST.

Matthew 22:37-38
37'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. ' This is the first and great commandment. 38And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

WE MUST LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR.

Matthew 24:46
46 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.



There's plenty more if it's needed.
But it's difficult to understand why 3 statements of Jesus are not enough.
Regeneration should never be considered outside the full operation of salvation. If God does not quicken a person, they will never receive Christ (I Co 2:14). If you ever will good to God, it is He that worked it in you (Phil 2:12-13). God only quickens some, so they are those elected to eternal life (Ac 13:48).

Just getting started, bear with me..
So now you want to bring up regeneration before salvation.
And you have your verses in parenthesis again.

You're all over the place Red.
Please post the verses you believe support your theory that we have to be born again
before we can be born again.
Since. a regenerated person is a born again person....THIS in effect, is what you're stating.

No problem...I'm really patient.
But it's late here....tomorrow.
 
In these scriptures one shall see the Spirit’s carefully chosen words say it is whom He foreknew, "not" what He foreknew.
Why do you seem to think it necessary to limit God's omniscience? God foreknows whom and what about everything. The whom He foreknew in Romans 8:29 are those who loved Him in Romans 8:28. That should be obvious. Those whom he called were those who loved Him (v.28). Verses 29 and 30 describe that process of His calling.
 
Well Jesus IS GOD....same difference!

I know that not all call themselves Calvinists...
but we're talking about a nuance here.

If a person believes in the TULIP bullet points...
he's a Calvinist. Simple.

The Confessions, BTW, make Calvinism softer, but they still agree with TULIP.
Agreed
 
YOU replied that only Jesus can secure our salvation. IS JESUS NOT GOD?? Are you saying there's a difference between God and Jesus? One is Father and one is Son...2 person, ONE AND THE SAME GOD. Right?
All through the scriptures Jesus is presented to us as the surety of God's people. Read Isaiah 53.

God chose Jesus from among the people to be the mighty Surety (Psalm 89:19). He was made Surety by God's oath at His ordination as our Priest (Hebrews 7:21). Jesus did the will of God perfectly as our Surety for our salvation (Hebrews 10:5-14).

The DEFINITION​

Surety ~ A person who undertakes some specific responsibility on behalf of another who remains primarily liable; one who makes himself liable for the default or miscarriage of another, or for the performance of some act on his part (e.g. payment of a debt, appearance in court for trial, etc.). We have surety bonds, performance bonds, bail, and bond to guarantee legal, financial, and professional obligations, such as with construction and insurance companies. When we need to borrow more than our credit allows, we appreciate a surety; if we were arrested for something, we would appreciate the surety bond that lets us go free. Judah became a surety for Benjamin to his father Jacob (Genesis 43:8-10; 44:30-34; 42:37). Aaron became a surety for Israel in their sins and stood between them (Numbers 16:41-48).

The SURETISHIP​

Jesus, a High Priest after the order of Melchisedec, was made the Surety of His people.

Being a surety means paying debts and performing, where the needy cannot pay or do. The wages of sin is death, which God’s justice pays; but Jesus died (Rom 6:23). Only the undefiled enter heaven, so He lived faultlessly for God's elect (Jude 1:24-25). Jesus was necessary as a surety, for the justice of God must surely be paid (Romans 3:26). He is the Testator, for it was by His death that He put the covenant in force (Hebrews 9:15). We see Him under the strain of the Surety engagement in Gethsemane (Luke 22:39-44). No man in heaven or earth could approach the throne, but only our Surety (Rev 5:1-14). If this is not a Surety, successfully finishing His work, what is it (Isaiah 53:4-12)? The doctrine of representation by the Second Adam reveals our Surety (Romans 5:15-19). The Lord Jesus tasted death for every one of His children to deliver them (Hebrews 2:9-17) How else can we look at the Book of Life, but as the list of His Surety engagements!

"IS JESUS NOT GOD?? " Absolutely he was. 100% God, also, 100% man. Jesus was a complex person.

"Are you saying there's a difference between God and Jesus?"~Of course there is.....Jesus was God, but God was not Jesus! God is a Spirit, always has been, always will be! God cannot die, the Man, Jesus of Narareth died for the sins of God's elect.

"One is Father and one is Son...2 person, ONE AND THE SAME GOD. Right?" As far as in the redemption of God's elect, manifest as three, as far as Genesis 1:1, one God, eternal both ways. Jesus in his deity as God is the everlasting father of all things.

Isaiah 9:6​

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

So, Jesus did indeed secured eternal life for each and every person entrusted to him of his Father as the Lamb of God provided by God Himself to saved his people from their sins. So much so, that when he died, we died with him. when he arose, we as member of his elect body arose with him, etc.

Ephesians 2:4​

“But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

I'm just going to take certain points of your and comment on them~so, I'll not be all over the place. One more thought.
You're going to have to stop telling me I lack knowledge.
You'd be banned for a month for doing this on another forum.
Fran, please do not be so offended~one of us for sure lack spiritual knowledge, so, if you say the same to me, no problem, just prove it. I never accuse you of not being born again, that would demand discipline, but not what I said.
 
Please explain why we're discussing Covenants.
Very simple, (and quickly) it is hard to discuss salvation by what the sinner must do, in light of the fact that there are two main covenants taught in the scriptures, one that said: "this do, and live, sin and die" ~ which truly summed up the first covenant of works ~and since God found fault (through the foreknowledge of God) with man, (or angels as far as that goes) being unable to fulfilled the Royal law that reveals God's infinite righteous nature ~ through God's infinite and perfect knowledge he knew that there had to be another covenant if any would be saved and inherit eternal life, so He provided a New Covenant, and sealed that covenant by two immutable acts........... his holy oath and promises of grace to Christ and his seed those that were chosen to be members of his body, to whom the promises and oath was made to, and to them only.

2nd Timothy 1:9
“Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”

Galatians 4:28​

“Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.”
Here's the difference between me and you:
Fran, you do not need to remind me of the huge differences between you and me ~ I see this battle in the scriptures and also played out daily in this world among the two generations of people living in this earth. One, a chosen generation, the another called "this" generation, which are a generation of snakes. whose father is the old serpent. Who belongs to each generation, is not alwasy clear, because God's children can be deceived for a period of time, and later converted, so we leave the judgement in God's hand, we are faithful to what we do know to be the truth, and stand fast upon the revelation of God to us.

1st Peter 2:9​

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”

Psalms 12:7​

“Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”

Which are the ungodly living among the generation of the just.

Matthew 23:33​

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”

Matthew 23:35,36​

“That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Who killed Abel, shed the prophet Zachariah's blood, etc? children of the Wicked one, the generation of evil and wicked men.

1 John 3:12​

“Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.”
I believe ANYONE could come to salvation IF they WANT to. YOU believe that those saved were saved from the beginning through no choice of theirs and for no apparent reason. This is a big difference.
If they want to? Pray tell me, how can a man who is at enmity against God by the sinful nature he inherited from Adam desires God ~ that's going against the scriptures, you believe this lie because you want to believe this, not because you can find support from God's testimony.

Man is dead in trespasses and sin, he must be resurrected by the power of God, the same power that according to Paul raised Jesus from the dead......why do you reject this truth? Or, do you believe you know the true sense of Ephesians 1:19-2:1, if so, provide it ~ let all hear what you have to say, which I know you do not, but you should at least provide your understanding. You said:

YOU believe that those saved were saved from the beginning through no choice of theirs and for no apparent reason.
Certainly nothing on our part, or, if one has an active part in his salvation, then it cannot be of grace, it becomes by works, which that's impossible, many scriptures all ready provided above a few times over. We shall address John 1:11-13 again later. We just quoted 2md Timothy 1:9 which is very clear and truly needs very little comment concerning. You said:

"and for no apparent reason"~ the only reason given by God is:

Ephesians 1:5​

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”

Fran, do you have a problem with this statement by Paul? Does God need to give an account unto you, or me, or anyone as far as that goes, I think not?

Later....RB
 
Two things I would say:

1. God's command is a general and good principal for humanity to reproduce and to populate the earth.~ while the concept of "ordained destruction" refers to specific individuals who will face divine judgment due to their sin and rebellion against God's laws, when left to themselves ~ not a predetermined fate for all of humanity. God has never been under obligation to show mercy to any, and no fallen creature can even begin to question God's righteous works that he determined within the own counsel of His own will.
"due to their sin and rebellion against God's laws" you say, thus making it conditional after all, which is sound Scripture IMO.

2. The same problem we would be face with by the very fact God "even created any to start with", knowing that God having infinite wisdom, knowing the end from the beginning, he knew what angels would do, when He left them to their own power, wisdom etc., much more man, would do....so, did this stop him from creating? No, the more so did this move him, so his power can be seen and known in so many different ways. It is clear we gain a deeper understanding of many of God's attributes like his holiness, justice, mercy, as these qualities are most clearly revealed in his plan of redemption through Jesus Christ in gospel, that we otherwise could have neve grasp.
God created us to live in His presence in Paradise in innocence only experience good, not knowing about evil, as God did. Now that we know evil too we can appreciate God more, much more because the love He showed for us sinners to win us back from the claws of the devil by Jesus, God the Son, dying for us sinners, also defeating the devil conquering death by His resurrection.

God's greatness will be seen even in the destruction of the wicked, and if men have a problem with that, then they have a problem believing the scriptures.

Of course you are right, provided the destruction of Pharaoh in the red sea has nothing to with after life, there is no concept of hell in the OT.
 
"due to their sin and rebellion against God's laws" you say, thus making it conditional after all, which is sound Scripture IMO.
Making what conditional? Salvation from sin and condemnation? Just because I agree that men will perish in the lake of fire, which is the second death because of their sin and rebellion, which is true, but it is only part of the truth. In Adam all died, death reigns over all through Adam, even over those who did not sin after the sim of Adam's disobedience, which are infants........just as those who inherit eternal life will reign in life through Christ, because of his obedience and righteousness which is the heart of the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1st Corinthians 15:21,22​

“For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”

Romans 5:12​

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”

The rest of Romans 5 proves eternal life is a free, unconditional gift for all that are in Christ, and the only way to be in Christ legally is by God's election of grace, which we shall consider soon from Ephesians 1. maybe today, if not, very soon.
God created us to live in His presence in Paradise in innocence only experience good, not knowing about evil, as God did. Now that we know evil too we can appreciate God more, much more because the love He showed for us sinners to win us back from the claws of the devil by Jesus, God the Son, dying for us sinners, also defeating the devil conquering death by His resurrection.
Please consider: (I may break this into two posts)

Proverbs 16:4~"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."​


Give Jehovah God glory! Fall before the King of heaven! Here are final and true answers to four of life’s greatest questions: Where did all things come from? Why do they exist? Who is the true God? Why does evil exist? This single sentence is worth your weight in gold! Humble yourself before this axiom from heaven and learn wisdom for life!

Proverbs is of little value, if you miss this. The beginning of wisdom requires grasping this proverb (Pr 1:7; 9:10). This verse should be one of the first children memorize. Here is the Bible worldview. From this foundation of knowledge, you can reason safely and sanely about other aspects of life. If you neglect or reject the truth here, your life will be a nightmare of confusion, and then you will meet an angry God (Ps 7:11; Amos 4:12).

Where did all things come from? God made all things. Evolution is a lie, told by God-haters, to discredit the Bible. The Bible says: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Gen 1:1). This is more certain than any fact you will ever hear. If you do not have the faith to believe it, you are unreasonably stupid (II Thess 3:2; I Tim 6:20-21).

It is a sign of insanity to begin your reasoning about the universe from a big bang of chaotic gases. Where did the gases come from? How did an explosion bring order and beauty out of chaos? How did the result include reproducing identically after each kind? How did it result in millions of different kinds, all reproducing after their own kind?

Jesus Christ, the Mighty God, made all things. The Bible is plain: “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). You should not argue creation versus evolution with unbelievers. Unless they have faith, they cannot learn anything of value, especially if educated. An arrogant man flattered with education and degrees is worse than a fool (Pr 26:12; I Cor 1:19-20; 3:19-20; I Tim 6:3-5).

The only big bang this universe ever felt was the shocking force of God’s words, “Let there be light!” And there was light! Even without a sun, moon, or stars for three days! He made all things, and He made them out of nothing. By faith you not only may know this fact, you may understand it also (Heb 11:3). Man is nothing more than a vessel of the divine Potter. Grasp this first answer thoroughly, and you are on your way to wisdom.

Consider what makes a person. Parents, height, nationality, intelligence, looks, time of birth, strength, race, coordination, personality, and opportunities make a person. God chose every one of these for you, without consulting you at all. He did not ask you a single question about your preferences. He chose them Himself! He gave you existence, a very personal thing, and the pain and trouble it brings, without asking you. You cannot even end your existence. You will eventually have to deal with Him. He is God.

You are fearfully and wonderfully made, but so are all His creatures (Ps 139:14). You are not special. You are certainly not special, because you are human, as humanists suggest. God is special, and you owe Him all that you are and have. Reject the folly of self-love and self-esteem (II Tim 3:1-2). Lift your eyes up to heaven, and bless and extol the most High. Read the greatest king’s personal testimony about meeting God (Dan 4:1-37).

If a person does not believe God made all things, there is no reason discussing anything of any importance with him. He has chosen a worldview of insanity, reasoning in a circle from his own imagination. How will you settle anything with him? He has the same answer for all questions – because I think so. He cannot know anything for certain, for his foundation rests on the thin air of speculative hallucinations that he calls theories.

Why do things exist? Why is the universe here? Why is man here? Why are you here? God made all things, and He made them for Himself! Give glory! Worship Him! Sing praise to Him! “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created” (Rev 4:11). You will soon bow to this Blessed and Only Potentate (Phil 2:9-11; I Tim 6:13-16).

These first two answers are so true, you should say, “For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen” (Rom 11:36). He is the First Cause of all things, and He is the Final End of all things. All things were created by Him and for Him (Col 1:16). Fall before Him now. Give Him the honor and praise due to His name.

The universe exists because God wanted to make something for Himself. He did not make the world for man; He made the world and man for Himself. You do not exist for yourself, nor does anything else exist for you; you and all things exist for His pleasure. It is time to humble yourself and see the purpose of your existence – the glory of God. If you rebel against this fact, or even neglect it, you will have hell to pay, now and later.

Why do elephants have long noses? For you to praise God for His creativity! Why do giraffes have long necks? For the same reason! Why can a blue sky with white clouds and a warm sun make your heart sing? For the glory of God! Why do baboons not pull their hairy pants all the way up? For you to laugh with God! What is the value of a zoo? It is for family worship – to praise God and ridicule Charles Darwin and Stephen Hawking.

Why are ostriches stupid? For you to know God made dumb things (Job 39:13-18)! Why are horses wonderful? For God to brag about them (Job 39:19-25)! Why does a woman’s body have curves that take a man’s breath away (Song 4:1-7; 7:1-9)? For the praise of His work with a rib! Why are there rainbows? To remind you God keeps His promises (Gen 12:9-17)! Give Him glory, reader. Praise Him this minute to fulfill your existence.

If you are short, fat, ugly, and stupid, God made you that way for Himself. You know He did not make you that way for you. You wish you were tall, thin, attractive, and smart. He made the baboon for Himself, and He made you for Himself. Give Him glory! Horrible parents, few opportunities in life, and poor health are also His choices. It is a key to happiness to learn and accept this knowledge. Whatever you have, and whatever you do not have, are both by God’s choice for His own glory. Thank Him! Worship Him!

Even Satan was made for the glory of God. God allowed him, as part of His eternal purpose, to rebel in pride, so He could display His wrath and power in Satan’s eternal punishment. God was not surprised by his rebellion. Satan and his angels shall be cast into everlasting fire, prepared for them from the foundation of the world (Mat 25:41). The smoke of his torment and that of his followers will be incense in heaven (Rev 14:10-11).

Pharaoh was conceived easily, survived childbirth, and avoided the diseases that took the lives of many Egyptian children. He graduated at the top of his class, won several victories leading the army, and was chosen from numerous siblings to be ruler of Egypt. While king, the nation prospered and became powerful. He was a success at anything he tried. His glory and power increased. He became the greatest monarch on earth. Why?

Where did Pharaoh come from? What was the source of his unique ambition, personality, dreams, and successes? God made him, and God promoted him to the top of Egyptian power by arranging the events of his life. Why did God do this? To destroy him in the Red Sea to magnify Himself (Ex 9:16; Rom 9:17)! God did not make Pharaoh wicked; but God did raise this wicked man up to destroy Him wonderfully for the praise of His own reputation. If you do not know these things, you do not know the God of the Bible.

Who is the true God? The LORD is His name! What does LORD mean? It is the English designation for the sacred Hebrew tetragrammaton, JHVH, which stands for I AM THAT I AM, which you pronounce as Jehovah! Allah is merely the moon god of hallucinating Arabians; Vishnu, Brahma, and Shiva are merely three of the Hindu imagined deities.

The LORD Jehovah is the true God. He is the only God. He looked for other gods, but He could not find any. He alone is God. He created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and all that is in them in six days. He is independent of all His creatures. He is infinite by any measure. He is eternal, immortal, invisible, omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.

Why does evil exist? Some believe the first three answers. They believe Jehovah created all things for Himself. But they limit His dominion by suggesting that wicked men and their sinful actions are outside His plan and control. To correct this false notion, Solomon immediately included even the wicked and their judgment in Jehovah’s creating of all things for Himself. Even wicked men and their eventual destruction are for God’s glory.

Evil exists because God gave Satan a free will. Rather than be content with his office, he swelled up in pride (I Tim 3:6). God gave him privilege and freedom, and he used it to rebel against his Creator. The blessed God was not surprised or disappointed; Satan is responsible for his wicked deed; God is righteous in tormenting him forever for his sin.

Where does suffering come from? Satan brought his rebellion to earth. He lied to your first parents, and Adam chose his foolish wife over God. Jehovah made man very good in a perfect world, but man corrupted the earth by sinning against His Maker (Gen 1:31; 3:16-19; Eccl 7:29). Adam chose the curse of sin for his family over Paradise with God. The whole creation groans in pain, travail, and death due to his sin (Rom 5:12-14; 8:22).

Evolutionists cannot explain death. It should have evolved away long ago, since it is the most dreaded and hated thing in life. If a slimy salamander can evolve to be a bald eagle, then surely man could have evolved death away. Death is the wages of sin. And the Bible teaches this fact clearly, which no evolutionist will ever find in a test tube or telescope. God created death, in several forms, as just punishment for sin. Therefore, all men die.

Adam’s sin in the Garden of Eden did not surprise or confuse the LORD. He had planned the entrance of sin into the human family, though Adam freely chose Eve over God without any coercion at all. Adam alone is responsible for his sin and the consequences. God made him perfect, warned him, and gave him only one commandment to keep. God had planned the entrance of sin for the ultimate display of both his wrath and mercy.

Depraved children of Adam, with hearts in all-out rebellion against God and morality, commit atrocities daily. You hear and read about them. They, nor their atrocities, surprise or confuse the LORD. He made them as surely as any creature. He restrains their wickedness, so all they can do is what He will use for Himself (Ps 76:10). They never think about God at all (Ps 10:4); they only want to satisfy themselves (James 1:13-16).

The blessed and holy God does not make men sin, but He does control and use their sins for wise and righteous purposes. God is perfectly holy and good. Man chooses sin willfully against the light of nature and warnings from God and men. God never puts sinful lusts in men, for He does not need to. They are so full of lust and wickedness, all He needs to do is lift His restraining mercy, and any man will do anything. Believe it!
 
Continue from #196

He controls and directs all wickedness in the universe to His own praise and glory.
Even the devil must obtain permission to touch a man or pig (Job 1:12; 2:6; Matt 8:31). He can keep a king from touching a woman (Gen 20:6), and he can use the offspring of incest for His glory (Gen 38:1-30). He used the envy of Joseph’s brothers to get him to Egypt (Gen 45:5; 50:20), and He used Roman cruelty to crucify His Son on a tree (John 18:31-32).

When God needs to reveal His wrath and power against sin, He looses men to rush greedily after their own lusts, and then He punishes them for it. About 6000 after creation, He drowned the earth with a flood for their sins. He let Satan have David to number Israel, and He killed 70,000 men in punishment for their sins (II Sam 24:1-25). God controls and directs the sins of men and their punishment to magnify Himself.

King Sennacherib wanted to expand the Assyrian Empire and conquer neighboring nations; God used him to chasten the rebellious Israelites, and then He destroyed him for his arrogant presumption about doing it (Is 10:5-19). God used Jewish hatred for Jesus to bruise His only begotten Son for the sins of His elect, and then He miserably destroyed them by the Romans just 40 years later for that horrible crime. It was their wicked hands that crucified Him, but it was all according to His eternal purpose (Acts 2:23; 4:27-28).

Here is the wisdom of God’s saints. They are never alarmed or surprised by wicked men. They know the LORD made Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, and Idi Amin for Himself. He used their evil to accomplish holy and wise ends, and then He did, and will yet, punish them for their wickedness. If God used World War II to crush Germany for the blasphemous higher criticism coming out of that country, give Him glory. If He crushed Japan for their blasphemous worship of Hirohito, give Him glory.

You cannot know the secrets things of God’s eternal counsel, unless and until He reveals them (Rom 11:33-34). History reveals some secret things (II Sam 12:22-23), and so do His prophets, which recorded them for you in Scripture (Dan 2:27-30; Amos 3:7). Most of His secret purposes are far outside your ability to know or understand. But He has revealed many things for you to do, and these are for your children and you (Deut 29:29).

A great Day of Evil is coming, the Day of Judgment, in which all angels and men shall be judged. The wicked were created for this day, as the proverb declares. The “evil” is the misery and pain He will pour on them (Job 2:10; Is 45:7). He has eternally purposed to display His mercy on the elect and His wrath on the reprobates (I Pet 2:8; Jude 1:4).

“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?” (Rom 9:21-24).

Do not even think of questioning Him! It took Nebuchadnezzar seven years to learn He is above questioning (Dan 4:35). Paul, blasting those who might question God’s absolute sovereignty, wrote, “Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?” (Rom 9:20). You should not even complain or question, if He made you without hands (Is 45:9). Rational men do not accuse their parents of error, much less should you accuse God (Is 45:10).

What should you do? “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil” (Eccl 12:13-14). Hear Solomon’s father, “Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah” (Ps 4:4). And, “Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth” (Ps 46:10).

Do you know you are wicked? There is one escape from the Day of Evil – salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ. God sent Him to save His people from their sins (Matt 1:21), and He will not lose one of them (John 6:39; 17:2). The elect were chosen out of wicked men by the grace of God and predestinated to eternal life (Rom 8:29-39; Eph 1:3-12). The gospel brings these facts to light (II Tim 1:9-10). To know you are one of His elect, fall before Him, beg for mercy, and rise up to obey His word (Acts 16:31; II Pet 1:10-11). (A friend of mine here in S. C. author this Proverb used by permission)
 
Of course you are right, provided the destruction of Pharaoh in the red sea has nothing to with after life, there is no concept of hell in the OT.
Well, it did sealed his afterlife as far as his what his end shall be. While I fully agree there's no concept/teaching on hell fire as being a place of torment for the wicked either in the OT or NT at the death of their bodies. The righteous have eternal life now and they shall never perish, not so with the wicked. Their bodies goes back to dust, they do not have a consciousness of life in any sense whatsoever, they simply do not live again until the last day when all shall come forth from the graves, etc. After the judgment at the Great White Throne Judgment seat where the wicked shall be judged, afterwards, they shall be cast into the lake of fire, and there perish. Enough for now.
 
Faith is not a work because Paul states it clearly.
@GodsGrace

While it is true, the power, gift to have faith is freely given, but faith is the fruit of Spirit, that lives in the new man, impossible for faith be the product of our flesh, impossible.

Romans 7:18​

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”

Why do men think that they can apart from God Almighty, first working in them, do spiritual acts pleasing to God, when Paul, as great as he was, knew that in his flesh dwelleth no good thing, not even a spark of good! Men in the pride of their hearts believe they could desire, seek, love God, apart from God first causing them to do so, would be beyond me, if I did not know just how deceitful their heart is by nature. But, I do know:

Jeremiah 17:9~"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Every man not born of God has this heart living within them ~ and folks trust this heart?? Very dangerous to do so.
Do we believe ALL of the NT or just the parts we like?
Children of God believe all of the word of God, just as it is written and given to us. We refuse to wrest it testimony to us....we receive it as little children.
Romans 4:2-5
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

Galatians 3:6~Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.


This is the most popular Bible quotation (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3,5,6,9,22,24; Galatians 3:6; Jamess 2:23).

Paul declared New Testament worship of Christ to be comparable to Abraham’s worship.

The adverbial phrase, "even as", means that there is a very strong comparison to be seen. Paul has been mentioning faith over and over, and Abraham is the greatest example of it. The Galatians stood by faith (2:16; 3:1-5); God approved Abraham by faith (Gen 15:6). This is precious and sweet, if you grasp Paul introduced Abraham as father to Gentiles!

Why is Abraham so important? For very good reasons in opposing the legalism of Judaizers. All the Jews recognized Abraham as the great friend of God, inheritor of promises, and father of the nation, in whom they took great confidence (Matthew 3:9; John 8:33; Exodus 3:6).

For those trusting Abraham, he was a man approved and commended by God for faith. For those trusting circumcision, Abraham was declared righteous before it (Romans 4:9-12). For those trusting Law, Abram was righteous 430 years before (Romans 4:13-16; Galatians 3:17).

What did Abraham believe? God promised him a son and a multitudinous seed (Geneses 15:6).

Did Abraham call forth faith in order to be justified and made righteous by God at this time?

Here is where we greatly differ from Arminians and Calvinists alike about justification, whom we find to be very similar on this doctrine, when we press them for definitions.

Arminians hold conditional justification ~ faith is the human condition for righteousness.

Calvinists hold instrumental justification ~ faith is the instrument receiving righteousness.

We deny both as being heretical notions, for our faith does not affect legal justification.

The text says God accepted Abraham’s faith and counted it as evidence for righteousness, which is how we understand it: our faith is the spiritual evidence and fruit of salvation.

The difference is significant – is legal justification conditional, or is it unconditional? Is faith the means of righteousness before God, or is it only the evidence of righteousness? Consider carefully:

Abraham had believed God and his promises and trusted Him obediently long before this minor event (Genesis 12:1-4; Hebrews 11:8; Genesis 12:7,8; 13:4,14-18; 14:17-24).

If this event was the conditional or instrumental cause of Abraham’s justification, then he was a condemned pagan in his previous acts of worship, which God joyfully accepted!

Did Melchizedek bless Abram as a condemned sinner on his way to the lake of fire (Genesis 14:18-20)?

Before Abraham could get started believing, God had already accepted him (Genesis 15:1)!

If this event was the conditional or instrumental cause of Abraham’s justification, then the shish-ka-bob javelin act of Phinehas was his condition or instrument (Ps 106:30-31)!

Is it an act of faith that justifies? A life of faith? Or only while you have faith? Or what?

Why was this event singled out and quoted more in the New Testament than any passage? Abel, Enoch, and Noah were ignored, because they were not the “father” of Israel, though they proved their righteous character by their faith long before Abraham (Hebrews 11:4-7).

God wrote Genesis 15:6 for the future use of Paul in showing the important role of faith to Jews trusting the Law that came 430 years later and to Gentiles that had no Law at all!

Later......
 
We are saved by FAITH ....and not by works.
Ephesians 2:8-9
@GodsGrace

Fran, I dare say that you truly understand Ephesians 2:8,9, very few do. even some of God's best children do not.

I just went over these scriptures recently but will do so again.

Ephesians 2:7-9​

“That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

In Ephesians 2:8 we have a classic example of an metonymy. The only faith that saves us legally is the faith of Christ, for no man can have faith in God, the faith that meets the requirement of a Royal law, a faith that is produce by perfect obedience to its laws! Jesus Christ alone had the faith that honoured God's law in all points, from conception, to death, in thoughts, words, and deeds ~ and this faith alone is the means of man's free justification. This faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God secured for God's elect by our surety, Jesus Christ. This faith is given to us in regeneration when the Spirit of God creates a new man within us after the image of his Son, Jesus Christ.

When a man hears and believes, it is not the old man (for that is impossible) but his new man that is a creative work in God's elect by the almighty power of God~this birth happens to a child of God sometimes after conception and before death, and is evidenced by faith and obedience to the word of God. Two prime examples of this is John the the Baptist and the thief on the cross.

I could spend more time proving the metonymy in Ephesians 2:8 by the context in just before verse 8, in verses: 4-6..."But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

We were IN CHRIST from all eternity, even while he lived in this world and in his death and resurrection, which secured our redemption for us. What he did, it was as though we did it, what happen to Christ happened to us legally speaking two thousand years ago.
 
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