When Is A Jew Not A Jew?

Peter didn't preach "God's love and acceptance of the nations." He witnessed to ONE Cornelius, a Gentile God-Fearer, and one not circumcised but still one step away from the Abrahamic Covenant. Peter was apostle to the Jews, not the "all nations."

God is getting his way just the same.
For Peter is studied today in all the nations, and being accepted.

God's purpose far exceeds our efforts, when our efforts are doing God's will.

The Abrahamic Covenant has a Gentile grafted in at the moment a gentile believes.
There is no need to teach the Abrahamic Covenant to a gentile to be saved...
If that Gentile who became a new creation in Christ? He is no longer a gentile.
That believer.. if he desires to know God's Word, will by grace, receive knowledge
from God's Word leading him into understanding what is needed to be walking in
the promises to Abraham for "his seed."


Ephesians 2:14-18

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down
the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is,
the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself
one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile
them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the
enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those
who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.


You still think we (the church) are Jews and Gentiles today?
In God's eyes we are all the one new man in Christ!

So as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross,
thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you
who were afar off and to those who were near.
For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father."


grace and peace ..........
 
Why should it?
It should if one wants to hold it up as being biblical doctrine. Otherwise, if it's not stated it should not be put forth as though it is.
Abraham was its foundation and he already had faith.
Yes, I understand that. God told him to leave for a land God would show him not knowing what that land is....he was prepared to sacrifice his son Isaac....but I'm not talking about Abraham.
The children of Israel had faith to be delivered out of Egypt and faith (and obedience) in God is required under the Mosaic Law and it says so, but there is no requirement for faith in the Abrahamic Covenant. If it's not stated in Scripture and someone wants to add faith where faith is mentioned then that would be called among other things as 'extra-biblical or adding to the bible. Why stop there. Let me add what I think should be written in Scripture if what I think should be included is not stated. Where and when does it stop? Cults have been formed by this methodology. You know that.

The Abrahamic Covenant is a biblical covenant between God and Abraham, which is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. The covenant contains several aspects. God promised:

To give Abraham and his descendants land
To make him into a great nation with numerous descendants
To bless him
To make his name great
To bless those who bless Abraham and his people
To curse those who curse Abraham and his people

The covenant also includes seven provisions:
  1. The promise of a great nation through Abraham
  2. Personal blessing on Abraham
  3. The name of Abraham shall be great
  4. Abraham is to be a blessing to others
  5. Blessing will rest on those blessing Abraham
  6. A curse will rest on those who curse Abraham
  7. All nations of the earth will be blessed through Abraham
BUT there is no mention of God requiring faith from Abraham or his descendants under this covenant.
If
it was required God would have mentioned it as He mentioned it in the Mosaic Covenant. It's not an omission. God didn't forget to mention it. The bottom line is faith in God is not a part of this covenant.

Now, WHAT did God require from Abraham and his descendants?

Circumcise himself and his descendants: God commanded Abraham to circumcise every male among his household, whether born or bought, as a sign of the covenant. This was to be done on the eighth day after birth. Anyone who was not circumcised would be cut off from the covenant people. (Genesis 17:9-14)

Are "we" going to take Scripture as written or are we going to add to the bible things not there but we think should be there?
I find also the practice of adding to the bible things that are not there is found here, too:

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal. 3:28–29.

Gentile Christians add to the bible by inserting themselves into the text in this passage. Clearly Saul is writing to JEWISH Christians in the Galatian region. And by Gentile Christians identifying themselves into the text where clearly Saul is writing to JEWISH Christians, Gentile Christians usurp the text and in doing so include themselves into the Abraham covenant when in the original text of the covenant in Genesis 17 there is no mention of circumcised Gentiles. If God wanted a covenant with Gentiles, He would have made it and included it in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets but there is none.

Personally, when the two Jewish witnesses arrive and prophesy against Israel (Rev. 11), I believe they are going to clear up a great deal of erroneous doctrine the Gentile Church currently possess and when they do Gentile Christians will be angry and jealous against Israel and be among those God will gather against Israel. Maybe when they are finally killed the day falls on December 25, the western observance of CHRIST-mas and the giving of gifts will find new meaning. I don't know. But one thing I do know with this Israeli-Hamas war taking place and that is prophesy is being fulfilled and nations are lining up against Israel as found in Ezekiel and other places in the bible. There are things that God sealed up until the times of the end (Daniel), well guess what? We ARE at the times of the end of the times of the end. Why wouldn't prophesy and doctrine begin to become clearer?
Concerning Abraham it was based upon his life.
The covenant was based upon God, not Abraham. God was the one that walked between the halved animal pieces while Abraham slept. All God required of Abraham was circumcision, the rest would be fulfilled by God.
Not those who followed...
Those who followed carried the seed of Abraham, and it was from his seed the Messiah would come.
Those who carried the seed were not required faith to carry the seed of Abraham. It was biological.
I agree. But now we have Saul saying there is neither Jew or Gentile and Gentiles take that and use it to say the Hebrew Covenant with Abraham is no longer biological, but in my interaction when I say God still has a covenant to fulfill with biological Israel as the Abrahamic Covenant was based on (Isaac, Jacob, children of Jacob, etc.), there's a lot of fudging and hee-haws on their part and the biological covenant we both agree was made with Abraham is rejected for a more convenient doctrine/teaching - their own. They lean upon their own understanding in the vanity of their minds.
What is your argument's point being made for?
Taking Scripture as written without adding to the bible.
 
I was born a Jew. I had no faith when I was born. Yet, I am from the lineage of Abraham.

The Abrahamic lineage was fulfilled when Jesus was born.
Where is all that described in Scripture of the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets?
For, from Jesus all the nations would be blessed.
See, now you're confusing Abraham and Jesus.
Are you prepared to say that God made no covenant with uncircumcised Gentiles in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets?
 
God is getting his way just the same.
For Peter is studied today in all the nations, and being accepted.
God's purpose far exceeds our efforts, when our efforts are doing God's will.
The Abrahamic Covenant has a Gentile grafted in at the moment a gentile believes.
Show me the Scripture in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets that this is so.
There is no need to teach the Abrahamic Covenant to a gentile to be saved...
One can't teach the Abraham Covenant to ANYONE who is spiritually discerned (1 Cor. 2:14.)
If that Gentile who became a new creation in Christ? He is no longer a gentile.
That believer.. if he desires to know God's Word, will by grace, receive knowledge
from God's Word leading him into understanding what is needed to be walking in
the promises to Abraham for "his seed."
No, he is still Gentile. There is no miraculous change, and that believer wakes up and he finds himself and his flesh circumcised for to be in the Abrahamic Covenant circumcision is a requirement of God as found in the Mosaic Scripture in Genesis 17. And if you say that the 'flesh of the heart is circumcised' my response to you is that such a circumcision is part of the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel (Jer. 31) and in this covenant there is no mention of Gentiles or the seed of Gentiles for it says this New Covenant is not like the covenant God made when He led Israel out of Egypt for it says God led the children of Israel (Jacob) of over 3 million Hebrews out of Egypt, not Gentiles.
Ephesians 2:14-18​
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down
the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is,
the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself
one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile
them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the
enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those
who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.


You still think we (the church) are Jews and Gentiles today?
I think there are two 'churches.' The early Church populated by Jews who were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit as spoken of in the New Covenant with the House of Israel, and after the Temple was destroyed a church of Gentiles.
In God's eyes we are all the one new man in Christ!

So as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross,
thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you
who were afar off and to those who were near.
For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father."


grace and peace ..........
Well, that's what Saul says, but does it say any of that in the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants God made with Abram the Hebrew and with the latter children of and House of Israel. Because I find nom covenant in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets of God making any covenant with Gentiles, and the mere discussion by Saul of the Law, Psalms, and Prophets he makes in his letters to Jewish Christians does not a covenant make.

It's a matter of interpretation and in my interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures I find God has made no covenant with Gentiles. Yet, Gentiles are being saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. The conclusion is that God is saving hard-core, uncircumcised Gentiles without a covenant.
 
Conceived. Not, "implanted."

Jesus was fully human in his soul and body.

What do you wish to prove?
That the humanity of Christ was some space alien implanted into the womb of Mary?

:rolleyes:
GINOLJC, to all.
G, this just show your IGNORANCE. the bible said, "conceived", which means, "become pregnant with (a child)" 101G asked nothing about how, the way, or the method how she became pregnant. and No, the Lord Jesus was fully Human in his Body, for spirit and soul are immaterial. you know nothing ........ do U? .... Oh well. the point 101G is getting at is this, since U think fleshly, (and not just U only), if the Holy Ghost is the "Conceiver" of the child, (flesh bone and blood) in Mary's womb, by definition, is not the Holy Spirit the Father of that flesh bone and blood, yes or no? your answer please.

101G.
 
prove there wasnt ? i read it no the words faith is not used.. but for one to accept something from God not seen yet. is FAITH
The covenant is the basis of the relationship between God and Abram the Hebrew (and his seed.)
In Genesis 17 where the covenant is made and described there is no requirement of faith in this covenant.
In the Mosaic Covenant God requires obedience and it says so, so obedience is required, and we can say so. But how can 'we' add to the bible things that are not there in the Scripture? If 'we' do such things where else do 'we' do it again and where does it stop?
In the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17 I find no requirement of faith. Do you? Can you post the Scripture?
Secondly, in the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17 I also find no mention of uncircumcised Gentiles in this covenant God made with Abram the Hebrew. And yet what is the current holding in the Gentile Church? They take Galatians 3:28-29 and use this as a covenant by identifying the statement of 'there is neither Jew or Gentile...that if you are Christ's then you are a child of Abraham' and teach they are - as hard-core, UNCIRCUMCISED - Gentiles a child of Abraham and in this insert themselves into the Abrahamic Covenant where no Gentiles are named or mentioned. ALL the covenants God made He made with the Hebrews/Jews. As Saul correctly said:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth
the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Rom. 9:4–5.

The "Seed" was promised to Abraham, the prophecy was given to Moses (Deut. 18:18), a New Covenant was made by God with the House of Israel (Jer. 31), the appearance of the Promised Seed was made manifest TO the House of Israel (Jn. 1:31), and the Promised Seed who did appear Himself said "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel."

In all this where are Gentiles?
 
So, if Abraham was an unbeliever?

God would have granted the covenant just the same?
If Abraham believed anything we can at least agree he believed God to give him a land he never saw.
If we are to agree anything we can agree Abraham did trust/faith God to give him a land he never saw and the 'works' of his faith was his feet shuffled one in front of another following God's lead. However, he wasn't completely obedient. He took his father-in-law and Lot with him.

1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother’s son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came. Gen. 12:1–5.

When he got to Haran he stayed there permanently until his father-in-law died.
But that's the baggage we carry when family take precedent and we don't do exactly what God commands.
 
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
did Joseph beget the Christ? NO. listen and Learn, Luke 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,"
so, try again.

101G.
 
did Joseph beget the Christ? NO. listen and Learn, Luke 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,"
so, try again.

101G.
Listen my children and you shall hear,
of the midnight ride of Paul Revere.

OK. So, what does "as was supposed" mean to you, my child?
 
OK. So how does that apply to the current response I made to ezra?

Indirectly. Brother we must get each precept right or have an incomplete theology. We spend our lives doing this in our quest to know more of God. It is the very nature of inheritance. Our drive to comprehend.....

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
 
The covenant is the basis of the relationship between God and Abram the Hebrew (and his seed.)
In Genesis 17 where the covenant is made and described there is no requirement of faith in this covenant.
In the Mosaic Covenant God requires obedience and it says so, so obedience is required, and we can say so. But how can 'we' add to the bible things that are not there in the Scripture? If 'we' do such things where else do 'we' do it again and where does it stop?
In the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17 I find no requirement of faith. Do you? Can you post the Scripture?
Secondly, in the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17 I also find no mention of uncircumcised Gentiles in this covenant God made with Abram the Hebrew. And yet what is the current holding in the Gentile Church? They take Galatians 3:28-29 and use this as a covenant by identifying the statement of 'there is neither Jew or Gentile...that if you are Christ's then you are a child of Abraham' and teach they are - as hard-core, UNCIRCUMCISED - Gentiles a child of Abraham and in this insert themselves into the Abrahamic Covenant where no Gentiles are named or mentioned. ALL the covenants God made He made with the Hebrews/Jews. As Saul correctly said:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth
the adoption
,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Rom. 9:4–5.

The "Seed" was promised to Abraham, the prophecy was given to Moses (Deut. 18:18), a New Covenant was made by God with the House of Israel (Jer. 31), the appearance of the Promised Seed was made manifest TO the House of Israel (Jn. 1:31), and the Promised Seed who did appear Himself said "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel."

In all this where are Gentiles?

Tamar.......... Ruth.........

Countless others before Israel. Melchizedek was the King of Salem. Salem was the national "prerunner" to Israel. Salem was a conquered nation. Christ made in the priestly order of Melchizedek

Israel is nothing more than a "called out" group. A people of faith (should be). Just some.... among the many faithful.
 
The covenant is the basis of the relationship between God and Abram the Hebrew (and his seed.)
In Genesis 17 where the covenant is made and described there is no requirement of faith in this covenant.
In the Mosaic Covenant God requires obedience and it says so, so obedience is required, and we can say so. But how can 'we' add to the bible things that are not there in the Scripture? If 'we' do such things where else do 'we' do it again and where does it stop?
In the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17 I find no requirement of faith. Do you? Can you post the Scripture?
Secondly, in the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17 I also find no mention of uncircumcised Gentiles in this covenant God made with Abram the Hebrew. And yet what is the current holding in the Gentile Church? They take Galatians 3:28-29 and use this as a covenant by identifying the statement of 'there is neither Jew or Gentile...that if you are Christ's then you are a child of Abraham' and teach they are - as hard-core, UNCIRCUMCISED - Gentiles a child of Abraham and in this insert themselves into the Abrahamic Covenant where no Gentiles are named or mentioned. ALL the covenants God made He made with the Hebrews/Jews. As Saul correctly said:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth
the adoption
,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Rom. 9:4–5.

The "Seed" was promised to Abraham, the prophecy was given to Moses (Deut. 18:18), a New Covenant was made by God with the House of Israel (Jer. 31), the appearance of the Promised Seed was made manifest TO the House of Israel (Jn. 1:31), and the Promised Seed who did appear Himself said "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel."

In all this where are Gentiles?
you are sad read this
righteousness which is by faith.

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


any thing done in the Bible is faith. you can water your strange fire into ligiid molten . it will still be strange fire
 
Show me the Scripture in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets that this is so.

One can't teach the Abraham Covenant to ANYONE who is spiritually discerned (1 Cor. 2:14.)

No, he is still Gentile. There is no miraculous change, and that believer wakes up and he finds himself and his flesh circumcised for to be in the Abrahamic Covenant circumcision is a requirement of God as found in the Mosaic Scripture in Genesis 17. And if you say that the 'flesh of the heart is circumcised' my response to you is that such a circumcision is part of the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel (Jer. 31) and in this covenant there is no mention of Gentiles or the seed of Gentiles for it says this New Covenant is not like the covenant God made when He led Israel out of Egypt for it says God led the children of Israel (Jacob) of over 3 million Hebrews out of Egypt, not Gentiles.

I think there are two 'churches.' The early Church populated by Jews who were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit as spoken of in the New Covenant with the House of Israel, and after the Temple was destroyed a church of Gentiles.

Well, that's what Saul says, but does it say any of that in the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants God made with Abram the Hebrew and with the latter children of and House of Israel. Because I find nom covenant in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets of God making any covenant with Gentiles, and the mere discussion by Saul of the Law, Psalms, and Prophets he makes in his letters to Jewish Christians does not a covenant make.

It's a matter of interpretation and in my interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures I find God has made no covenant with Gentiles. Yet, Gentiles are being saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. The conclusion is that God is saving hard-core, uncircumcised Gentiles without a covenant.
So are you saying?

There are Jews today who are saved? And, Christians?
 
Indirectly. Brother we must get each precept right or have an incomplete theology. We spend our lives doing this in our quest to know more of God. It is the very nature of inheritance. Our drive to comprehend.....

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
I agree. But merely not understanding my position does not mean I am wrong.
 
G, this just show your IGNORANCE. the bible said, "conceived", which means, "become pregnant with (a child)" 101G asked nothing about how, the way, or the method how she became pregnant. and No, the Lord Jesus was fully Human in his Body, for spirit and soul are immaterial. you know nothing ........ do U? .... Oh well. the point 101G is getting at is this, since U think fleshly, (and not just U only), if the Holy Ghost is the "Conceiver" of the child, (flesh bone and blood) in Mary's womb, by definition, is not the Holy Spirit the Father of that flesh bone and blood, yes or no? your answer please.
101G.... look up this word, please?

Condescending


Jeepers!
 
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