Acts 15:1–11 (ESV) — 1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question. 3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. 5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.” 6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
Just because a gentile becomes Born-Again......
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I am saying that the world of Gentiles (non-Hebrews) has never been in covenant with God and in the Abrahamic, Mosaic, nor the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel.
The Abrahamic Covenant was between Abraham and his seed and Gentiles are not his seed.
The Mosaic Covenant was between God and the children of Israel and NOT Gentiles (non-Hebrew.)
The New Covenant is between God and the whole House of Israel, not Gentiles.
God NEVER made covenant with the whole world (Gentiles.)
The Abrahamic Covenant covered Abraham and his seed and Gentiles are NOT in this covenant because they are NOT his seed. But if you can show me Scripture a non-Hebrew (Gentile) was born to two Hebrew parents I will concede defeat on this argument.
While you're at it show me Scripture the non-Hebrew Gentiles were in the Mosaic Covenant.
And while you're looking for the Scripture for that show me where Gentiles (non-Hebrews) are mentioned in the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah in his book located in chapter 31 verses 31-34 and I;ll concede defeat on this discussion.
Show me the Scripture in Jeremiah 31 where Gentiles were included in this covenant.
You post the Scripture that supports my position. Thank you.
Now post Scripture in the Old Testament that shows Gentiles in the Mosaic Covenant.
Pssst...there's none.
Isaiah's prophecies were to and for the children of Israel in covenant with God.
God has made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
The closest you can get is that Gentiles would receive the blessings of Abraham and NOT be in covenant.
And unless the context of Saul's mentioning of Gentiles are uncircumcised, non-Hebrew Roman, Greek, or Scythian Gentiles then the word "Gentiles" refers to proselytes and God-Fearers. They are NOT in covenant with God, and they knew it, nor were they considered as "Jews" by true Jews obeying God's Torah.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The word "evil" is a moral "evil" and "calamities" do not have any "moral" aspects at all. In other words, since the word "evil" has moral connotation, the word cannot be defined as "calamity" because there is no moral aspect in "calamity." Strong's defines the word "evil" as:
from [#7489] (ra`a`); bad or (as noun) evil (natural or moral)
You have a serious reading disability. Christ is the Seed, pure and simple.
(Gal 3:16) Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
Thus, your Ethnic Cleansing hysteria is exposed for what it truly is: Sheer Nazi-like Judaizing Supremacism. Your fantasies all just crashed and burned in your face.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Doh!Why would your imaginary Proselytes need to be recircumcized? Was the operation not done right the first time? More wacky logic from you.
God-Fearers were not circumcised. Proselytes were. Both were committed to devout obedience to God's Torah except God-Fearers were not circumcised but were committed to God's Torah every other way and were considered citizens of Israel. They were not called "Jew" or "Jewish." They were still Gentile and most likely the Gentile that Saul mentions.
God promised Abraham and his seed He would give them their own land and that there would be NO GENTILES in this Promised Land.
Since it was God who determined who would get certain "lots" of land under Joshua, it was also determined by God where each tribe was situated around the Tabernacle. So, when God gives the Jews their Promised Land there will be no Gentiles living among the Jews when the get their land. Gentiles will be cleansed from OUT of Jewish land. If you want to call it "ethnic cleansing" then that's exactly what God does. Zechariah describes this cleansing in his prophecy.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I never said God was evil so either have understanding of what I say and stop putting words in my response that I've never said.
Everything in God's creation is the result of God. Even evil. Evil did not just pop up. It was directly the result of God. Evil does not come from "holy" or "sinless" which is the heresy of Gentiles. Your failing is that you do not understand how "evil" appeared in God's creation and because you don't understand it you fail.
God says in Isaiah 45.7 that He created darkness and evil. Is it so hard for you to accept what God said or do you continue to make excuse and lean on your own understanding in the vanity of your mind?
Again, why would your imaginary Proselytes need to be recircumcized? Was the operation not done right the first time? More wacky logic from you.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing
13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
Paul is warning Gentiles against Judaizers like you. In your case, you are judaizing Ethnic Cleansing.
Again, you have a serious reading disability. Christ is the Seed, pure and simple.
(Gal 3:16) Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
Thus, your Ethnic Cleansing hysteria is exposed for what it truly is: Sheer Nazi-like Judaizing Supremacism. Your fantasies all just crashed and burned in your face.
Just because you spew out Nazi-like Ethnic Cleansing words does not automatically prove that all men and women were created sinful. You're projecting your personality on everyone when you do that. It's time you sought a cure for your Nazi-like Ethnic Cleansing Final Solution hysteria.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Of course there is. Christ returns and takes up His throne in Jerusalem and reigns for a thousand years on the planet.
Then, after the thousand years are expired Satan is let loose on the planet and deceives all Gentile Christians to surround Israel and attack but fire from heaven comes down and consumes them all (Rev. 20:7.)
There is no such thing of rapture in Scripture. This heresy was formulated by a man named John Nelson Darby in the 1800s. Gentile Christians will go through the Time of Jacob's Trouble along with Israel. As a matter of fact, Gentile Christians will one day oppose Israel and join the "nations" God gathers against Israel in Zechariah 14. Even today Gentiles are opposing Israel's defense of their borders and people and supporting the murderous Hamas who attacked them and murdered defenseless men, women, and children. Do you support Hamas?
More of your true colors are coming out. From Nazi-like Ethnic Cleansing to your Judaizing Supremacy, now you want us to be pulled down to the cesspool of your Politics. You can take your Politics and go fly a kite.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Not proselytes. They were already circumcised and obedient to God's Torah.
However, God-Fearers were not circumcised and are the Gentiles Saul mentions.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
OK. And WHEN does it "vanish away"?
No, you don't.
Zechariah says God will cleanse the Promised Land of all Gentiles and Jews will occupy THEIR OWN LAND alone and you have a problem with that?
Some say Apollos or Priscilla wrote Hebrews.By the way, the consensus is that Paul, your favorite Apostle, is the one who wrote Hebrews. You'll be seeing nightmares of him in your sleep!
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Overall, the letter was written to Jewish Christians. Saul mentions Gentiles but the letter as all his letters were written to Jewish Christians at the various home-churches in those cities and towns that bear the name of those letters.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
That's right. But Abraham was still promised land. And God will keep His promise.
God promised Abraham his own land. The promise also was given to Isaac and Jacob and later to the twelve sons of Jacob under the name of the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants.(Gal 3:16) Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
Thus, your Ethnic Cleansing hysteria is exposed for what it truly is: Sheer Nazi-like Judaizing Supremacism. Your fantasies all just crashed and burned in your face.
The New Covenant was promised to the House of Israel and Jesus Christ died for the House of Israel. Christ didn't die for the whole world because the whole world is NOT in covenant with God.
Until the (one) Seed came Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's twelve sons benefitted from God's promises and they will receive an inheritance from God as promised. It includes atonement for their sins and land.
Christ didn't die for Gentiles. Christ died for "His people" (Matt. 1:21.) Do you refute that?
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt 1:20–21.
"His people" are Abraham and his seed also known as the children of Israel. And to be clear Gentiles are NOT "His people."
That's what the Word says. Do you accept this truth or reject it?
Hmmm?
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Oooh. Good. I like that. Cleansing Gentiles from the land God Promised Abraham as a "Final Solution."
Good job.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Too poor as a child to fly a kite and as an adult I have no desire to fly a kite.
But as a biblical Christian saved by the grace of God, I support the people of Israel.
Sorry that interpretation is found nowhere in scripture
Rev 20:7 says nothing about Jesus Reigning in Jerusalem. Says nothing about gentile Christians surrounding Israel
You have read all that into the passage
There is a catching up of living believers at the time of Christ as seen above
Do you read? I stated living believers are caught up
Scripture reads the same
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord
I stated nothing about a rapture where living saints are caught up in a secret coming of Christ previous to the tribulation to keep them out of it
No I do not support Hamas
and most of what you state above is simply false
Do you believe the scriptures found in the New covenant
They clearly discount any scenario of Christ reigning from Jerusalem a 1000 years after his return also well as your fantasies about gentile Christians
You beg the question
Many translations disagree with your claim
other translations
Isaiah 45:7 (ESV) — 7 I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 (LSB) — 7 The One forming light and creating darkness, Producing peace and creating calamity; I am Yahweh who does all these.
Isaiah 45:7 (NIV) — 7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 (UASV) — 7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 (NASB 2020) — 7 The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things.
BTW did you see the word natural is your own citation
That refers to disasters and calamity
There is a word for that. They call it framing
Galatians 3:29 (ESV) — 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
You deny scripture as found in the New testament
Pst that verse did not support you
Ephesians 2:11–22 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
before
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
after
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Apparently you deny the New Testament and harbor resentment again those the New Testament states are fellow citizens of the household of God
Ephesians 2:11–3:6 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. 1 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— 2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
The are heirs to all the promises
