When Is A Jew Not A Jew?

[GeneZ]

There is no passing of sin in the seed of Adam. That is nonsense. Adam was peccable from the begining and the continuation of the condition was passed to his offspring. That is why Christ is referenced as the second Adam being made a life giver.

PY?????

I have to put you on ignore.

It confounds me how someone as ignorant of truth as you are, is also so confident in what he says.
You are here only to interrupt any dialogue that can lead to a deeper understanding of truth.

I would suggest.

If its a "spirit" that guides you, that makes you feel so self confident?

Its not the Holy Spirit.

"IGNORE is in store... ​

I am slamming the door. "​

BYE!

 

[Johann]

PY?????

I have to put you on ignore.

It confounds me how someone as ignorant of truth as you are, is also so confident in what he says.
You are here only to interrupt any dialogue that can lead to a deeper understanding of truth.

I would suggest.

If its a "spirit" that guides you, that makes you feel so self confident?

Its not the Holy Spirit.

"IGNORE is in store... ​

I am slamming the door. "​

BYE!

Sometimes I have to shake my head-and we are in the last days.

 

[GeneZ]

Sometimes I have to shake my head-and we are in the last days.

​

​

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:13-14​

Satan has his agents..
He just can not find any good help these days the more informed a few Christians become.


grace and peace ........

 

[Ezra]

But, for this new covenant? Gentiles who now believe, have been grafted into those same benefits!

exactly

 

[Johann]

​

​

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. ​

And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:13-14​

Satan has his agents..
He just can not find any good help these days the more informed a few Christians become.


grace and peace ........

With emphasis on "few" @GeneZ -keep on running the race.
J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Sometimes I have to shake my head-and we are in the last days.

You can correct me. Please do. There is no reason for you to lump me in with apostasy. You're taking the easy way out here.

 

[praise_yeshua]

With emphasis on "few" @GeneZ -keep on running the race.
J.

Yeah.... That old... I'm one of the "few" defense.

Have you ever seen me use that before?

 

[praise_yeshua]

what does this have to do with the price of tea in China ?

It doesn't... But it is relative to how Jesus identified Himself. That should be relative to what is being discussed here....

Many peoples throughout history have appealed to cultural superiority.

Don't get wrong. I hate what is happening now to them. I really do. It burdens me to think about it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What translation are you reading?

The "engagement period" for Jews back then was considered a covenant.
Look at Joseph and Mary.
They were engaged when she was found with child.
When Joseph found out she was pregnant, he was contemplating divorce.

Matthew 1:19​

​

Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her ​

to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly."​

In today's world?
Divorce can only take place after a marriage had been completed.
But, when Jews were under an engagement "covenant?"
The Jewish man and woman were considered good as married, though not yet man and wife.

And, that is what the Church is today!

We are under the new covenant with Christ. Guaranteed to be married!
The marriage will actually be consummated when we are resurrected!
We will have become "one flesh."

​

Genesis 2:23-24​

​

The man said,​

​

“This is now bone of my bones​

and flesh of my flesh;​

she shall be called ‘woman,’​

for she was taken out of man.”​

​

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is ​

united to his wife, and they become one flesh.​

When we are finally resurrected! We will have become "one Flesh!:"

In the mean while?

We are to be receiving benefits according to the new covenant.
Jews were promised there would be a day when this new covenant will come to pass.
Those benefits are what the maturing in Christ will realize now in time.

But, for this new covenant? Gentiles who now believe, have been grafted into those same benefits!


grace and peace .........................

It dealt with your application relative Ephesians 5. You made the connection. The connection is not there.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What translation are you reading?

The "engagement period" for Jews back then was considered a covenant.
Look at Joseph and Mary.
They were engaged when she was found with child.
When Joseph found out she was pregnant, he was contemplating divorce.

Matthew 1:19​

​

Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her ​

to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly."​

In today's world?
Divorce can only take place after a marriage had been completed.
But, when Jews were under an engagement "covenant?"
The Jewish man and woman were considered good as married, though not yet man and wife.

And, that is what the Church is today!

We are under the new covenant with Christ. Guaranteed to be married!
The marriage will actually be consummated when we are resurrected!
We will have become "one flesh."

​

Genesis 2:23-24​

​

The man said,​

​

“This is now bone of my bones​

and flesh of my flesh;​

she shall be called ‘woman,’​

for she was taken out of man.”​

​

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is ​

united to his wife, and they become one flesh.​

When we are finally resurrected! We will have become "one Flesh!:"

In the mean while?

We are to be receiving benefits according to the new covenant.
Jews were promised there would be a day when this new covenant will come to pass.
Those benefits are what the maturing in Christ will realize now in time.

But, for this new covenant? Gentiles who now believe, have been grafted into those same benefits!


grace and peace .........................

It dealt with your application relative Ephesians 5. You made the connection. The connection is not there.

PY?????

I have to put you on ignore.

It confounds me how someone as ignorant of truth as you are, is also so confident in what he says.
You are here only to interrupt any dialogue that can lead to a deeper understanding of truth.

I would suggest.

If its a "spirit" that guides you, that makes you feel so self confident?

Its not the Holy Spirit.

"IGNORE is in store... ​

I am slamming the door. "​

BYE!

Claiming spiritual superiority doesn't make you spiritual.

The seed of Eve in Mary had the same weaknesses any peccable human has. The Seed of God didn't prevent this. The argument you are making doesn't "add up".

The man is not without the women nor is the women without the man. Do you remember those words. All are combined in the seed of the women. To deny this is to deny the fullness of humanity in the Hypostatic Union.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I am beginning to see loopholes in your posts-easily spotted.
No offense.

So, your long reply, you don't think you're leaving me room to respond?
Nevermind.

 

[jeremiah1five]

How did he become Jewish? as 101G ask Gene, post his Biological Parents who is Jewish?
101G.

THE book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11 And pJosias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; 14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; 15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations. Mt 1:1–17.

23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, 24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph, 25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge, 26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda, 27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri, 28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er, 29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, 30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim, 31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David, 32 Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson, 33 Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda, 34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor, 35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala, 36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech, 37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan, 38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Lk. 3:23–38.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@GeneZ , @jeremiah1five
Listen to the bible. Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily." Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."
now conceived means become pregnant with (a child). and Gene said it was Mary's ovum God used. well a ovum is a mature female reproductive cell, especially of a human or other animal, which can divide to give rise to an embryo usually only after fertilization by a male cell. so, are you saying God is a man with sperm?

No, Christ is Divine.
Jesus is a Man.
Jesus Christ. The God-man.
There was no sperm.
Study the "hupostasis" (Hypostatic Union.)
It means "(a) setting under."

notice what the scriptures said, "conceived in her", in, in, in, her and not "by", her or anyone else
well how did it happen, as said outside the normal way of human conception. Let the bible speak, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing, (thing, here means flesh), which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God".

No, it means the "child" is Holy. Total. Sinless human flesh and sinless Logos.

see that term "overshadow" it means,
G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence

take note of the 3rd. reference. "to invest with preternatural influence", what do preternatural means. It means, "out of the ordinary course of nature; exceptional or abnormal". the meaning here, not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women. meaning a woman egg, and a male sperm....... Neither was used. God prepared the body.

It's used in a figurative way.
To cast a shade/shadow is the correct rendering.

now a side Note FYI ..... if the Holy Ghost is the conceiver, (which he is), then he the Holy Ghost is the "Father".... Uh O!

101G.

So is the Son:

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
And the government shall be upon his shoulder:
And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6.

It runs circles around me, too.

 

[jeremiah1five]

who are you trying to convince ? me or your self? if me your fighting a losing battle.... if you then looks like your winning

I'm not trying to convince anyone. That's the ministry of the Holy Spirit. He opens eyes and minds to His Word. And if you don't "get it" it's not because I am wrong. It's because God doesn't want to open your mind right now. God controls how much light - if any - He wants to give someone to understand His Word. And it's also possible that my words are not meant for you but for someone else who may read and not participate in this conversation. But the fact remains. There is no requirement of faith from Abraham in this covenant. This is a covenant with God alone. Abraham was passive as he was asleep, and God walked between the halved animals thus demonstrating the Abrahamic Covenant is all gift and no obligation, or responsibility, or accountability God requires from Abraham. The man was asleep.
But your reply shows me you're not honest with yourself, and as Jesus and John the Baptists said, "a man can receive nothing unless it is given of God from above."
In other words, you can't give me anything if at first you don't possess it.
So, by your reply you're not honest with yourself and in this cannot be honest with me (or others.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

o i really shouldnt reply as it will be like water on a ducks back...rolls off aka fall on deaf ears ...but curious how did Abraham accept this cov. was there a big screen t.v showing the future? NOOOOOO he accepted it BY FAITH yes faith with out faith it is impossible to please God. even the ceremonial laws had some faith in it... best be getting you a new Bible

There is no faith requirement in the Abrahamic Covenant.
Abraham was asleep. There is no faith required in the Abrahamic Covenant description in Genesis 17.
I know you read it and looked for it, but it's not there. And if it's not there I'm not going to be dishonest with Scripture and insert it there. Scripture tells me what to believe. I don't tell Scripture what to say.
Some posters like to add words to the text. It's the same as when Eve said, "...neither shall ye TOUCH IT."
When they do that...well, they're just dishonest. Period.

 

[GeneZ]

There is no faith requirement in the Abrahamic Covenant.
Abraham was asleep. There is no faith required in the Abrahamic Covenant description in Genesis 17.
I know you read it and looked for it, but it's not there. And if it's not there I'm not going to be dishonest with Scripture and insert it there. Scripture tells me what to believe. I don't tell Scripture what to say.
Some posters like to add words to the text. It's the same as when Eve said, "...neither shall ye TOUCH IT."
When they do that...well, they're just dishonest. Period.

Abraham already had faith....

No further faith was needed. God decreed the covenant on the basis that Abraham was a man of faith.

If Abraham had no faith? God would not have established His covenant with Abraham.

grace and peace....

 

[jeremiah1five]

Abraham already had faith....

I agree with that.

No further faith was needed. God decreed the covenant on the basis that Abraham was a man of faith.

There is no such mention or requirement of faith in the Abrahamic Covenant of Genesis 17.
Gene, why can't you just look at the Scripture as I do and see the same thing?
God never says, "Do this or that or have faith." Nor is there any curse accompanying this covenant. Nor are there any curses mentioned for failing to have faith or failing to do this or that. This is God's promises and if faith was to be a requirement there would by necessity have to have curses for failures as does the Mosaic Covenant?

If Abraham had no faith? God would not have established His covenant with Abraham.

I never said or implied that. This is about the covenant not Abraham.

grace and peace....

Peace and grace.

 

[GeneZ]

There is no such mention or requirement of faith in the Abrahamic Covenant of Genesis 17.

Why should it?
Abraham was its foundation and he already had faith.
Concerning Abraham it was based upon his life.
Not those who followed...

Those who followed carried the seed of Abraham, and it was from his seed the Messiah would come.
Those who carried the seed were not required faith to carry the seed of Abraham. It was biological.

What is your argument's point being made for?

 

[GeneZ]

I never said or implied that. This is about the covenant not Abraham.

I was born a Jew. I had no faith when I was born. Yet, I am from the lineage of Abraham.

The Abrahamic lineage was fulfilled when Jesus was born.
For, from Jesus all the nations would be blessed.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm not trying to convince anyone. That's the ministry of the Holy Spirit. He opens eyes and minds to His Word. And if you don't "get it" it's not because I am wrong. It's because God doesn't want to open your mind right now. God controls how much light - if any - He wants to give someone to understand His Word. And it's also possible that my words are not meant for you but for someone else who may read and not participate in this conversation. But the fact remains. There is no requirement of faith from Abraham in this covenant. This is a covenant with God alone. Abraham was passive as he was asleep, and God walked between the halved animals thus demonstrating the Abrahamic Covenant is all gift and no obligation, or responsibility, or accountability God requires from Abraham. The man was asleep.
But your reply shows me you're not honest with yourself, and as Jesus and John the Baptists said, "a man can receive nothing unless it is given of God from above."
In other words, you can't give me anything if at first you don't possess it.
So, by your reply you're not honest with yourself and in this cannot be honest with me (or others.)

That is not what it means......

The Scriptures came from above. Love came from above. Every good and perfect gift comes from above.