When Is A Jew Not A Jew?

Joh_8:56 "Your father Abraham leaped for joy in order that he might see the day, Mine: and he saw it [by faith], and rejoiced ."
Where does it say "faith" in the original?
It doesn't.
Rom_4:16 On account of this it is of faith, in order that it might be by grace; to the end the promise may be sure to every child of faithful Abraham, Jew and Gentile alike; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
That's fine. But show me in Genesis 17 where the Abrahamic Covenant is described God placing any requirement for "faith" in this covenant.
There is none.
Heb_11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he was about to receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Yes. But there is no requirement of "Faith" in the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17. Abraham also had faith God would resurrect Isaac after the sacrifice, but there is no requirement of "Faith" in the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17.
Heb_11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, hath offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son,--
There ya go.
But there is no requirement of "Faith" in the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 17 God made with Abe.
 
Peter Preaches to the Gentiles – Acts 10:1-11:30
Cornelius
1Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, 2a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually. 3About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, "Cornelius!" 4And fixing his gaze on him and being much alarmed, he said, "What is it, Lord?" And he said to him, "Your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God. 5Now dispatch some men to Joppa and send for a man named Simon, who is also called Peter; 6he is staying with a tanner named Simon, whose house is by the sea." 7When the angel who was speaking to him had left, he summoned two of his servants and a devout soldier of those who were his personal attendants, 8and after he had explained everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.
- Acts 10:1-8

The Jews had two classes of converts (Lenski, p.67):

Proselytes of the Gate:
These converts were not subject to circumcision and observed only a limited portion of the Law forbidding idolatry, blasphemy, disobedience to judges, murder, fornication/incest, theft and eating of blood. The eunuch that Philip baptized was one of these as was Cornelius, probably because he was a Roman soldier and a foreigner.

Proselyte of Righteousness: These were Gentiles that became complete Jews, accepting circumcision, and were subject to all of the Law. They were permitted to enter and worship at the Temple (in the Court of the Gentiles).
Although he was a Proselyte of the Gate, Luke describes Cornelius (centurion is a Roman officer over 100 soldiers) as being:

Devout/pious: A proselyte who worshiped the God of the Jews and led his household in that direction.
Benevolent: He used his position and wealth to benefit the poor thus confirming that his faith was sincere.
Spiritually minded: He wanted a spiritual relationship with God and pursued it through prayer.
His prayers are answered as God gives him instructions to bring Peter to his home. Note that the angel could have preached the gospel to him then and there, but that task was given by God to men not angels, so that even if it was more complicated to arrange, Cornelius sends for Peter.

Peter

9On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; 11and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, 12and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. 13A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!" 14But Peter said, "By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean." 15Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." 16This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.
- Acts 10:9-16
God provides a vision where Peter is commanded to eat food that Jews were not permitted to eat according to Jewish food laws. The Lord had prepared Cornelius for Peter's visit with the appearance of an angel who gave him specific instructions. God also prepares Peter so that he will be able to carry out God's mission despite the challenges it will present him as a faithful Jew.

Jewish ceremonial and food laws were given to the Jews by God in order to make a distinction between themselves as God's people and other nations (Gentiles) who were not. For example, the whole world labored seven days per week, but the Jews were different in that they devoted one day (Sabbath) to the Lord and rested. The other nations ate every kind of food. Jews were different because what they did or did not eat was guided by their law given to them by God. Once Christ came, the way to be separated from the world was to follow Him and submit to the direction of the Holy Spirit who leads Christians through His Word (New Testament) spoken by Christ and taught by His Apostles (Acts 2:42).

The problem for Peter as well as the other Apostles was that the practices that they had followed as Jews (food laws, Sabbath day observations, etc.) were now taken away or fulfilled by Jesus, but they were slow to understand. This included the rules concerning their association with Gentiles. For example, they could not enter a Gentile's home or share a meal with them, nor could the Gentiles enter a Jew's home or the Temple.

In the vision of the clean and unclean food and the command to eat, God was teaching Peter two things:

God had the authority to establish laws, change laws, or suspend laws because He was God, the giver of laws.

He was now amending the law concerning food, declaring that all food was to be considered "clean" and thus could be eaten freely by Jewish Christians (something Jesus had already declared in Mark 7:19).

17Now while Peter was greatly perplexed in mind as to what the vision which he had seen might be, behold, the men who had been sent by Cornelius, having asked directions for Simon's house, appeared at the gate; 18and calling out, they were asking whether Simon, who was also called Peter, was staying there. 19While Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Behold, three men are looking for you. 20But get up, go downstairs and accompany them without misgivings, for I have sent them Myself." 21Peter went down to the men and said, "Behold, I am the one you are looking for; what is the reason for which you have come?" 22They said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was divinely directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear a message from you." 23So he invited them in and gave them lodging.
- Acts 10:17-23a
Peter, still trying to absorb the meaning of the vision, is told that the men sent by Cornelius are at the gate and he should welcome them. Peter greets them and after hearing the reason for their journey invites them to spend the night with him and Simon's family. Peter may not have understood the full impact of the vision but nevertheless obeyed God's instructions to invite the Gentiles in, despite his discomfort.

Peter Meets Cornelius
23bAnd on the next day he got up and went away with them, and some of the brethren from Joppa accompanied him. 24On the following day he entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. 26But Peter raised him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am just a man." 27As he talked with him, he entered and found many people assembled. 28And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean. 29That is why I came without even raising any objection when I was sent for. So I ask for what reason you have sent for me."
30Cornelius said, "Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during the ninth hour; and behold, a man stood before me in shining garments, 31and he said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God. 32Therefore send to Joppa and invite Simon, who is also called Peter, to come to you; he is staying at the house of Simon the tanner by the sea.' 33So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now then, we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord."
- Acts 10:23b-33
Luke describes both Cornelius' preparations for Peter's visit (he had no doubt that the Apostle would come). There is also a marvelous image of these two pious and humble men deferring to one another. Cornelius, a Roman Centurion, kneeling in front of this Galilean fisherman in front of his family and friends. And the servant of the Lord refusing this type of homage declaring the truth that before God both of them were only men (sinful men).

Peter begins by speaking to the obvious issue, "What are a group of Jewish men doing visiting/entering the house of a Gentile?," something that everyone knew was not permitted for a Jew. He does not describe his vision, as Cornelius will do in a moment, but demonstrates that he has understood the meaning of the vision God gave him and that he has obeyed it. Cornelius explains his own vision and how this has led to Peter's arrival in his home. The stage has now been set for the first instance where the gospel will be proclaimed to the Gentiles.

Peter Preaches to the Gentiles (10:34-43)


Peter's lesson assumes that his hearers are all familiar with the facts of the gospel as were most of the people who lived in that area and knew of Jesus, His ministry, as well as His death and reports of His resurrection. He also includes the new information given him by God in the vision that the gospel is for all, not only the Jews to whom he had been preaching since Pentecost. His main point is that he and the Apostles are actual witnesses of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.

39We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. 40God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. 43Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
- Acts 10:39-43

Response to Peter's Preaching (10:44-48)
44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
- Acts 10:44-46
Before Peter can finish by encouraging his audience to repent and be baptized as he did with the crowd on Pentecost Sunday, Cornelius and the other hearers begin speaking in tongues and praising God. Luke describes this phenomenon as, "the gift of the Holy Spirit poured out on the Gentiles."

Think back to other times in the book of Acts when the Holy Spirit was mentioned and answer this question, "What has just happened here: empowerment by the Holy Spirit or indwelling of the Holy Spirit?" The answer is: empowerment. The Holy Spirit empowered these people to speak in tongues. I believe this happened in order to convince those that did not have a vision (like Peter's companions) that God was extending the gospel to the Gentiles, not only to the Jews. There were many prophets who said that this would be so (Micah 4:2; Zechariah 8:22; Amos 9:12) including Jesus Himself in Mark 13:10.

47"Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" 48And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
- Acts 10:47-48
Peter now finishes his lesson by directing these new believers to be baptized because if there were any who doubted that the gospel was also for the Gentiles, their questions had been answered by the Holy Spirit Himself when He empowered these people to speak in tongues. Peter mentions that they had received the empowerment by the Holy Spirit just like the Apostles did, without human intervention (no laying on of hands). He also insists that they be baptized in order to obey the gospel and receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

And so God uses the appearance of an angel, a special vision and the empowering of Gentiles to direct Peter to open the gospel to non-Jews. We find out that all of this and more would be necessary to convince the early church, made up exclusively of Jewish Christians, to accept this directive from God.

You're not leaving me room to reply so I won't. I'm not going to reply as necessary and then when exceeded 10,000 characters go back and edit my comments out, which will diminish my response and take away from my answer.
 
It was her own ovum that God used.
post book chapter and verse to that effect.

His body was already prepared. Hebrews 10:5 "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:" God prepared, not God and a woman. God only have to speak and it's done. God don't need any help in making a body in or outside a womb.

now please post that scripture where God use Mary's ovum.

101G.
 
@GeneZ , @jeremiah1five
Listen to the bible. Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily." Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."
now conceived means become pregnant with (a child). and Gene said it was Mary's ovum God used. well a ovum is a mature female reproductive cell, especially of a human or other animal, which can divide to give rise to an embryo usually only after fertilization by a male cell. so, are you saying God is a man with sperm? notice what the scriptures said, "conceived in her", in, in, in, her and not "by", her or anyone else

well how did it happen, as said outside the normal way of human conception. Let the bible speak, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing, (thing, here means flesh), which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God".
see that term "overshadow" it means,
G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence

take note of the 3rd. reference. "to invest with preternatural influence", what do preternatural means. It means, "out of the ordinary course of nature; exceptional or abnormal". the meaning here, not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women. meaning a woman egg, and a male sperm....... Neither was used. God prepared the body.

now a side Note FYI ..... if the Holy Ghost is the conceiver, (which he is), then he the Holy Ghost is the "Father".... Uh O!

101G.
 
post book chapter and verse to that effect.

His body was already prepared. Hebrews 10:5 "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:" God prepared, not God and a woman. God only have to speak and it's done. God don't need any help in making a body in or outside a womb.

now please post that scripture where God use Mary's ovum.

101G.

How did He prepare it?
It does not say directly.

Genesis 3:15 tells those who have eyes to see what was coming our way.


And I will put enmity​
Between you and the woman,​
And between your seed and her Seed;​
He shall bruise your head,​
And you shall bruise His heel.”​
Her seed = her ovum.

The Holy Spirit needed to fertilize that ovum because the sin nature defect was passed down by the male, because of Adam's sin.


grace and peace ............
 
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I had a thought for you to consider.

It probably needs some work, but I believe it may shed light on why we are walking in a dogmatic vagueness at present.
Its because many do not understand the ancient Jewish custom for marriage.

When a Jewish man was espoused to be married to a woman? He first signed a "contract" with the woman's father.
The man and woman were considered married, but not yet married. That contract which had benefits can be called a covenant..

The covenant was in effect for the time the man and woman are espoused until the actual wedding night.

In such a manner, God created a new covenant for the Church. This covenant/contract is in effect until we are resurrected and become one flesh with the Lord!


Ephesians 5:25-27
New International Version
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

So? Presently the Gentiles who believe have now been grafted into the marriage contract/covenant.
They now receive the same benefits as Jews, who are also waiting for their resurrection (the wedding night).

Betrothal. The connection to Eph 5 is nothing more than conjecture.
 
How did He prepare it?
It does not say directly.
thought so.

now, can you explain, this. Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."
Question, "is not the conceiver of a child is called the Father?" yes or no. remember and read Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

the "son" is not ...... "BORN", but the Child.... (Flesh bone and blood is)". so the BODY that was conceived was of the Holy Ghost, and any conceiver of a Child is called the father of the Child correct.

so please tell us why the Holy Ghost is recognized as "Father?" your answer please.

101G.
 
thought so.

now, can you explain, this. Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."
Question, "is not the conceiver of a child is called the Father?" yes or no. remember and read Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

the "son" is not ...... "BORN", but the Child.... (Flesh bone and blood is)". so the BODY that was conceived was of the Holy Ghost, and any conceiver of a Child is called the father of the Child correct.

so please tell us why the Holy Ghost is recognized as "Father?" your answer please.

101G.
Conceived. Not, "implanted."

Jesus was fully human in his soul and body.

What do you wish to prove?
That the humanity of Christ was some space alien implanted into the womb of Mary?

:rolleyes:
 
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You obviously do not know the Jewish custom (of that day) for engagement before marriage.

I don't? Why do you say this? It is conjecture to suppose that Paul is referencing such in what he stated in Ephesians 5. It might possibly be true, I just trying to understand how you can be so certain?
 
I don't? Why do you say this? It is conjecture to suppose that Paul is referencing such in what he stated in Ephesians 5. It might possibly be true, I just trying to understand how you can be so certain?
You have not grasped what I am talking about.

For if you had? It makes no sense to refer me to Ephesians 5.

You're a ball of confusion and a diversion away from what was said.

In Christ ....................
 
So, you cannot find "Faith" as a requirement from Abraham in the Covenant described in Genesis 17, either. It would just be easier to be honest with yourself, for if you could do this then you can be honest with others. Such an attitude is dangerous in Christianity.
But if God at present can't make you honest with yourself, I can't do it from my chair.
Jesus said, "What you do to these, the least of my brethren you have done it unto me.
Now you know.
who are you trying to convince ? me or your self? if me your fighting a losing battle.... if you then looks like your winning
 
You have not grasped what I am talking about.

For if you had? It makes no sense to refer me to Ephesians 5.

You're a ball of confusion and a diversion away from what was said.

In Christ ....................
Sure I did. You referenced Ephesians 5 concerning some "covenant" between man and wife.
 
How did He prepare it?
It does not say directly.

Genesis 3:15 tells those who have eyes to see what was coming our way.


And I will put enmity​
Between you and the woman,​
And between your seed and her Seed;​
He shall bruise your head,​
And you shall bruise His heel.”​
Her seed = her ovum.

The Holy Spirit needed to fertilize that ovum because the sin nature defect was passed down by the male, because of Adam's sin.


grace and peace ............
There is no passing of sin in the seed of Adam. That is nonsense. Adam was peccable from the begining and the continuation of the condition was passed to his offspring. That is why Christ is referenced as the second Adam being made a life giver.
 
Challenge for all participating in this thread.

Reference one time that Jesus referenced Himself as a Jew. Just once. Search for it. it is an interesting task that will surprise you.

No matter how you look at it. Jesus accomplished a work that once again made all men equal.
 
So, you cannot find "Faith" as a requirement from Abraham in the Covenant described in Genesis 17, either. It would just be easier to be honest with yourself, for if you could do this then you can be honest with others. Such an attitude is dangerous in Christianity.
But if God at present can't make you honest with yourself, I can't do it from my chair.
Jesus said, "What you do to these, the least of my brethren you have done it unto me.
Now you know.
o i really shouldnt reply as it will be like water on a ducks back...rolls off aka fall on deaf ears ...but curious how did Abraham accept this cov. was there a big screen t.v showing the future? NOOOOOO he accepted it BY FAITH yes faith with out faith it is impossible to please God. even the ceremonial laws had some faith in it... best be getting you a new Bible
 
Challenge for all participating in this thread.

Reference one time that Jesus referenced Himself as a Jew. Just once. Search for it. it is an interesting task that will surprise you.

No matter how you look at it. Jesus accomplished a work that once again made all men equal.
what does this have to do with the price of tea in China ?
 
Sure I did. You referenced Ephesians 5 concerning some "covenant" between man and wife.


What translation are you reading?

The "engagement period" for Jews back then was considered a covenant.
Look at Joseph and Mary.
They were engaged when she was found with child.
When Joseph found out she was pregnant, he was contemplating divorce.


Matthew 1:19​
Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her
to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly."


In today's world?
Divorce can only take place after a marriage had been completed.
But, when Jews were under an engagement "covenant?"
The Jewish man and woman were considered good as married, though not yet man and wife.

And, that is what the Church is today!

We are under the new covenant with Christ. Guaranteed to be married!
The marriage will actually be consummated when we are resurrected!
We will have become "one flesh."

Genesis 2:23-24​
The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is
united to his wife, and they become one flesh.


When we are finally resurrected! We will have become "one Flesh!:"

In the mean while?

We are to be receiving benefits according to the new covenant.
Jews were promised there would be a day when this new covenant will come to pass.
Those benefits are what the maturing in Christ will realize now in time.

But, for this new covenant? Gentiles who now believe, have been grafted into those same benefits!


grace and peace .........................
 
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