When Is A Jew Not A Jew?

[praise_yeshua]

No, it made her covenant.

Maybe with Ruth but not Tamar. Care to deal with Tamar?

He also forbade mingling with the Gentiles and learning their ways.

He forbade marrying Gentiles. You know this is true. There is no need to "waffle" on this singular point.

Depends. Was Mel human or a Christophany?.

There is no reason to see a Christophany and appeal to Christ setting His own Priestly order. Even so, it is best to appeal to Theophany then work to Christophany.

What promise?

You can begin with God's promise to Eve...... that of her seed (the seed of Mary in Christ) there would arise a "man" that would destroy the serpent.

How can Abe live the gospel in Isaac. Isaac was his son.

??

Abel is a type of Christ (God's promise) but the enduring appeal is to Seth. The brother that fought against Cain.

 

[GeneZ]

lol i been doing it all along your just not wanting to see a covenant is

noun​

1. A binding agreement; a compact. synonym: agreement.
   Similar: agreement
2. A condition in a contract such as a deed or lease, nonperformance or violation of which gives rise to a cause of action for breach.
3. A contrac

so we cant see God but accept what he has for us.. we do this BY FAITH. without faith it is impossible to please God. so to say the words Faith is not used . so its not of faith.. makes no sense. so all i been trying to do is reason with you.. but your so adamant of being right. you refuse to see . so as the lawyer says in a court case i rest my case. if you take it that is up to you. if you refuse it no skin off my nose. i will sleep just fine tonight

Its a contract. Yes..

Joseph and Mary's engagement? It was a signed contract! A marriage covenant.

Jews back then who became engaged were considered married before the actual honeymoon night took place.

The "new engagement" contract was sealed when Jesus finished His work on the Cross!
The New Covenant promised to Israel became for all Christians' the contract for the Lord's engagement.
Gentiles are now being grafted into the New Covenant.

Because.. We are all -both Jew and Gentile who believe- are the Bride of Christ!

It appears that some with a Jewish background wish to hang onto their prejudice against what they see as the "inferior goyim."

Yet, to be fair. I must admit. When I first began attending churches, some of them functioned as bumbling spiritual hillbillies.
Later I realized that Jewish believers end up doing a similar thing with their own cultural inflexibility they refuse to let go of.

That is why Paul had to say ...

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, ​

the dividing wall of hostility." Eph 2:14​

Some refuse to let go of that wall and want it back in some form....

They keep trying to erect a new wall with a form of pseudo doctrinal concepts, as to convince themself about its OK to practice exclusivity in the body of Christ.

There is no excuse. For my formerly gentile pastor knows Judaism from a divine perspective better than any rabbi I have known.
My own Jewish father respected him the few times he heard his recorded messages. Up until then, he scorned the typical preacher's
ignorance, over simplification, and making an appeal to the local bias he was speaking to.

Its all going to come out in the wash.....


grace and peace ............

 

[praise_yeshua]

??

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith:

Faith to faith.....

Enoch was the seventh from Adam. Adam actually lived long past the birth of Enoch.....

Enoch preached Christ.....

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

This promise has been from the beginning.

 

[101G]

He is his stepfather.
Do you agree with that, my child?
lol

No, because the discussion is on conception. who conceive the child in Mary's womb. so no, the stepfather did not conceive the child..... so try again.... (smile)....

101G.

 

[101G]

101G.... look up this word, please?

Condescending

Jeepers!

and? what it's supposed to change the word of God by 101G or U? ........ (smile) ..... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear.

101G.

 

[jeremiah1five]

One New Man Bible: Revealing Jewish Roots and Power​

https://www.amazon.com/One-New-Man-Bible-Revealing/dp/1935769111


grace and peace .................

I presume you have a copy?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Am I a Jew then?

If I recall you have said you are.
Do you know which tribe?

 

[jeremiah1five]

lol i been doing it all along your just not wanting to see a covenant is

noun​

1. A binding agreement; a compact. synonym: agreement.
   Similar: agreement
2. A condition in a contract such as a deed or lease, nonperformance or violation of which gives rise to a cause of action for breach.
3. A contrac

so we cant see God but accept what he has for us.. we do this BY FAITH. without faith it is impossible to please God. so to say the words Faith is not used . so its not of faith.. makes no sense. so all i been trying to do is reason with you.. but your so adamant of being right. you refuse to see . so as the lawyer says in a court case i rest my case. if you take it that is up to you. if you refuse it no skin off my nose. i will sleep just fine tonight

It makes perfect sense when the only thing God wants from Abraham is circumcision. And circumcision is mentioned in the covenant. But faith isn't.
Now you say it is all faith? That without faith it was impossible to please God. The children of Israel lived by sight, not by faith for if the covenant is of works (Mosaic), and it is, then faith is no more faith, Saul says, and the covenant was of works.

12 And the law is not of faith: but the man that doeth them shall live in them. Gal. 3:12.

And Israel was under the Law, not faith.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal. 3:23.

The Faith which afterwards was revealed is the Holy Spirit.

So, methinks you have to look at the history of Redemption in whole and not just a part of it, like from a Gentile Christian perspective which only came into existence somewhere after the Temple was destroyed.
Enjoy your time in the sun because when the Times of the Gentiles comes to an end - and it will with a great many BANGS! - then God turns His full attention back on Israel and the two witnesses God sends (Rev. 11) will be Jewish prophets who will not use Gentile Christian doctrine of the past 2000 years to prophesy to Israel, but will speak to Israel from their Law, Psalms, and Prophets and with God taking away their blindness they will finally see this Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah and, as Saul says, "ALL Israel shall be saved" (by covenant. the Abrahamic Covenant joined with the Mosaic and New Covenants.)

Father = Abrahamic Covenant
Son = New Covenant
Holy Spirit = Mosaic Covenant.

You read it here first, folks.
Think about it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Maybe with Ruth but not Tamar. Care to deal with Tamar?

Tamar was married to one of Judah's sons, right?

He forbade marrying Gentiles. You know this is true. There is no need to "waffle" on this singular point.

He forbade more than that. He wanted His people SEPARATED from uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles. Middle wall partition, remember. God erected it for a reason and God gave command for Israel of twelve tribes to love ONLY Israel of twelve tribes (Lev. 19:18-19.)
And the same command is for Gentile Christians to love ONLY Christians in covenant with God - Jew and Gentile.

There is no reason to see a Christophany and appeal to Christ setting His own Priestly order. Even so, it is best to appeal to Theophany then work to Christophany.

Well, I know Jesus wasn't Gentile nor was His Priesthood.
As a matter of fact, Jesus was called "Rabbi." Why was that? Was He an Essene? No, He wasn't.
Was He a Sadducee? No, He wasn't a Sadducee. Come to think of it Jesus' teaching closely resembled what Pharisees taught about angels, resurrection, and other things. Maybe He was a rogue Pharisee?
Hmmm...
Well, Jesus the man (human) was not Priesthood. Has to be Christ. The eternal Logos. What say ye?

You can begin with God's promise to Eve...... that of her seed (the seed of Mary in Christ) there would arise a "man" that would destroy the serpent.

Actually, God made the Promise to the serpent, not the woman.

Abel is a type of Christ (God's promise) but the enduring appeal is to Seth. The brother that fought against Cain.

Don't say that. You know the Mormons will take that and say, "Abel is a type of Christ" and his brother, Seth, is a type of Michael.
Well, here we go with analogy and spiritualizing. Can we keep it literal? Do you think the Jews think Abel is a type of Christ? Or maybe Seth is a type of Christ. Or Noah is a type of Christ. Maybe the Ark is a type of Christ.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith:

Faith to faith.....

Enoch was the seventh from Adam. Adam actually lived long past the birth of Enoch.....

Enoch preached Christ.....

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Ah yes, the Gospel in the Stars. The Star Bible. The Prophecies of God's Son placed in the heavens.
And this knowledge was lost in the flood waters but it's making a comeback.

This promise has been from the beginning.

Yes, but if Israel did not understand what a Holy Spirit is neither did Adam and his kids for that revelation did not come until Jeremiah 31.

 

[jeremiah1five]

QUOTE 101G: "he, Joseph, is NOT, again, is NOT, the father of that child, (flesh bone and blood),

RESPONSE:

No, because the discussion is on conception. who conceive the child in Mary's womb. so no, the stepfather did not conceive the child..... so try again.... (smile)....

101G.

YOU again!

QUOTE 101G: "he, Joseph, is NOT, again, is NOT, the father of that child, (flesh bone and blood),

RESPONSE: Joseph is Jesus' stepfather.
As far as conception Jesus the Messiah was conceived in Mary's womb.

...for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. Mt 1:20.

Greek Word: γεννάω
Transliteration: gennaō
Strong's [#1080]
from a variation of [#1085] (genos); to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figurative to regenerate.

Is this so hard? When God breathed into the nostrils of the man, He breathed the appointed human DNA into his loins, which is the meaning of "Let us make man in our image" which was a forward-looking to Christ for the image of God is not natural, earthy man, but the Lord from heaven. There is no better image of a Father than a Son, don't you think?
So, put it all together.

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Col 3:10.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:15.

When the right ovum was produced at the appointed time the Holy Spirit overshadowed her and the miracle was conceived. We are being conformed into the image of Christ, not Adam.

 

[Ezra]

It makes perfect sense when the only thing God wants from Abraham is circumcision. And circumcision is mentioned in the covenant. But faith isn't.
Now you say it is all faith? That without faith it was impossible to please God. The children of Israel lived by sight, not by faith for if the covenant is of works (Mosaic), and it is, then faith is no more faith, Saul says, and the covenant was of works.

12 And the law is not of faith: but the man that doeth them shall live in them. Gal. 3:12.

And Israel was under the Law, not faith.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal. 3:23.

The Faith which afterwards was revealed is the Holy Spirit.

So, methinks you have to look at the history of Redemption in whole and not just a part of it, like from a Gentile Christian perspective which only came into existence somewhere after the Temple was destroyed.
Enjoy your time in the sun because when the Times of the Gentiles comes to an end - and it will with a great many BANGS! - then God turns His full attention back on Israel and the two witnesses God sends (Rev. 11) will be Jewish prophets who will not use Gentile Christian doctrine of the past 2000 years to prophesy to Israel, but will speak to Israel from their Law, Psalms, and Prophets and with God taking away their blindness they will finally see this Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah and, as Saul says, "ALL Israel shall be saved" (by covenant. the Abrahamic Covenant joined with the Mosaic and New Covenants.)

Father = Abrahamic Covenant
Son = New Covenant
Holy Spirit = Mosaic Covenant.

You read it here first, folks.
Think about it.

your like a mule looking at a new gate where did that come from..

 

[jeremiah1five]

Many words have more than one sense. So, it is with this idea that we spiritually come from Abraham.

If anyone spiritually comes from Abraham is the Jew in Christ, not the Gentile.
You're misunderstanding Galatians 3:28-29. Saul is writing to Jewish Christians who were concerned about their standing under the Abrahamic Covenant. EVERYBODY (the Jew) was unsure of EVERYTHING when the Holy Spirit came in fulfillment of the Jeremian New Covenant prophecy in chapter 31. It liuterally took years and experience and searching the Hebrew Scriptures before they could put it all together and understand that if they were Christ's they were still Abraham's children/sons.

Not sure where you get the idea of any inordinate pride. Is it permissible to have pride to be children of God? I think so.

Yes, it is permissible. But Gentile Christians think more highly of themselves than they ought. When they twist the Scripture such as Galatians 3:28-29 specifically and say Gentile Christians are spiritually Abraham's children/sons. That's one of their prideful errors. Saul was writing to Jewish Christians so his words should be taken in context to his audience, and they are the Jewish Christians in the Galatian region. To think that Saul was addressing Gentiles is to bastardize the Scripture and come to false understanding and doctrine. And it is Gentile doctrine. Too bad we all have to wait for the two witnesses when they come on the scene to correct the Gentile Church. And when they do the Gentile Church will not only be jealous but PISSED!
But when Christ comes one of the things He'll do is subdue the Gentile Church because they are completely out of control.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Tamar was married to one of Judah's sons, right?

Possibly two of them. Doesn't change the fact that he Father-in-law Judah thought she was a whore and father a child with her. You can't deny this. You're parsing your words.

He forbade more than that. He wanted His people SEPARATED from uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles. Middle wall partition, remember. God erected it for a reason and God gave command for Israel of twelve tribes to love ONLY Israel of twelve tribes (Lev. 19:18-19.)
And the same command is for Gentile Christians to love ONLY Christians in covenant with God - Jew and Gentile.

Now you're deflecting. This doesn't have anything to do with the fact they sinned against God and rejected God. Unbelief. Unbelief damns.

Well, I know Jesus wasn't Gentile nor was His Priesthood.
As a matter of fact, Jesus was called "Rabbi." Why was that? Was He an Essene? No, He wasn't..

He simply didn't response. I do know what He said about Rabbis.....

Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Notice how Jesus didn't appeal to Rabbit.... but MASTER.

It is clear that the Priestly order of Christ predated any relationship to Judah.... or have you abandoned "Jew" now?

Was He a Sadducee? No, He wasn't a Sadducee. Come to think of it Jesus' teaching closely resembled what Pharisees taught about angels, resurrection, and other things. Maybe He was a rogue Pharisee?

Neither. Master is what He demanded.

Hmmm...
Well, Jesus the man (human) was not Priesthood. Has to be Christ. The eternal Logos. What say ye?

There is no separating the Incarnation in the His Priestly work. His humanity is required to be a faithful High Priest for the people.

Actually, God made the Promise to the serpent, not the woman.

He spoke to the Serpent. He mentioned the seed of the women. She is included. It wasn't the seed of the Serpent.

Don't say that. You know the Mormons will take that and say, "Abel is a type of Christ" and his brother, Seth, is a type of Michael.
Well, here we go with analogy and spiritualizing. Can we keep it literal? Do you think the Jews think Abel is a type of Christ? Or maybe Seth is a type of Christ. Or Noah is a type of Christ. Maybe the Ark is a type of Christ.

I don't care what they say when it comes to determining the Truth. I'm not going to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" because some Mormon said one small thing that is true.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Ah yes, the Gospel in the Stars. The Star Bible. The Prophecies of God's Son placed in the heavens.
And this knowledge was lost in the flood waters but it's making a comeback.

Maybe. Maybe not. The key being that the promise was made before Abraham and Judah... or have you abandoned your appeal to "Jew" now?

The earthly seed has always been targeted for heavenly seed. There is no separation in the purpose of God. It is an appeal to the Gospel. The Gospel... faith to faith.

Yes, but if Israel did not understand what a Holy Spirit is neither did Adam and his kids for that revelation did not come until Jeremiah 31.

Nonsense. David clearly stated that He could NOT get away from the Spirit of God.

Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

 

[praise_yeshua]

your like a mule looking at a new gate where did that come from..

I always heard it as

" a calf looking at a new gate". Mule might be more descriptive.....

Just like the saying. Not necessarily agreeing...

 

[jeremiah1five]

your like a mule looking at a new gate where did that come from..

Hee Haw?

 

[Wrangler]

You're misunderstanding Galatians 3:28-29.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

But Gentile Christians think more highly of themselves than they ought. When they twist the Scripture such as Galatians 3:28-29 specifically and say Gentile Christians are spiritually Abraham's children/sons.

No twisting.

People today lack discernment. Valid definitions have a genus and Differentia. The limits of equality is at the genus level. In that we are all equal in being Christ followers. Beyond that, much still differentiates us, although the difference pales in comparison. This is the proper understanding of Galations 3:28-29.

The question of this thread has nothing to do with religious tenets and everything to do with concept formation. A is A. And there is no time when it is not so. Now, one can argue that it does not matter that a Jew is a Jew. However, that is a different argument.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Possibly two of them. Doesn't change the fact that he Father-in-law Judah thought she was a whore and father a child with her. You can't deny this. You're parsing your words.

He could think she was a whore but I'm sure she thought he was a liar and supplanter to not keep his word and give his other son as kinsman redeemer to raise up seed for her dead husband. So, Jacob was an adulterer to pay for sex with her. Now what?

Now you're deflecting. This doesn't have anything to do with the fact they sinned against God and rejected God. Unbelief. Unbelief damns.

First, anyone in covenant with God is saved. This means all of Israel in covenant with God is saved. God keeps His Promises despite the sin and sins of God's elect:

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Rom. 11:26.

The Deliverer came, as per covenant and prophecy, died on a tree for Israel His Bride and Church as per covenant and prophecy, and He's coming again to fight alongside Israel against His enemies as per covenant and prophecy, maybe even against Gentile Christians because they will not be raptured and will go through the Time of Jacob's Trouble with Israel, and once it sinks in God used the Gentile Christians to make Israel His Bride jealous, they will turn against God and Israel.


1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
Zech. 14:1–2.

If the Gentile Christians are not raptured, then they will be along the "all nations" Zechariah is describing. God is not sitting by awaiting to see who will accept His Son, from the beginning He's been actively calling out a people to Himself. With Israel He does it through covenant promises; with Gentiles in this era, He's doing it without covenant. So, being in covenant with God is the same as once saved, always saved. And that's exactly what the Scripture teaches. How are you going to get around what Saul said? He said, "and so all Israel shall be saved." Well, covenant makes that happen.

He simply didn't response. I do know what He said about Rabbis.....

Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Notice how Jesus didn't appeal to Rabbit.... but MASTER.
It is clear that the Priestly order of Christ predated any relationship to Judah.... or have you abandoned "Jew" now?

The "priestly order" began in Trinity BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man and was accomplished by the Logos:

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev. 13:8.

To learn about the beginning, we have to go to the end. Scripture says that before God created heaven, earth, and man a 'lamb was slain.' Being there's a heavenly Tabernacle, the same Tabernacle Moses was use as model to build the earthly Tabernacle, it seems to me a 'lamb was slain' (or sacrificed) and this would require a Priest to perform this function. And although I can go through several reasons why a 'lamb was slain' before creation I'll just leave that for another thread. So, this knowledge would also have bearing on member @101G and @GeneZ discussion about the "conception" of Jesus Christ, we can discuss using this truth about when the "Priestly Order" actually began and that would be one discussion in which I can provide that which I think I know towards the question.

Neither. Master is what He demanded.

I don't think Jesus Christ demanded to be called "Master." There's nothing in Scripture on that question.

There is no separating the Incarnation in the His Priestly work. His humanity is required to be a faithful High Priest for the people.

Agreed.

He spoke to the Serpent. He mentioned the seed of the women. She is included. It wasn't the seed of the Serpent.

You know, there's doctrine in the Gentile Church today called the "Covenant of Works" and it is applied to Adam and the woman, but I can't find God making any covenant with Adam and the woman in Scripture. It's simply not there the way God's covenant with Noah, Abraham, and in Jeremiah's prophetic word, and the language that accompanies it. How about you? Do you read God saying "My covenant is between me and thee" the way He said to Noah and Abraham?

I don't care what they say when it comes to determining the Truth. I'm not going to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" because some Mormon said one small thing that is true.

Forget the Mormons. That was written in jest.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

You know, to be quite honest with you the philosophy of "agree to disagree" is a cop out. Heresy in the Church should be challenged not allowed to exist.
But I know that most Gentiles think God wrote the New Covenant Scriptures and addressed them to Gentiles but that's clearly not true. It's just Gentiles who think more highly than they ought. I mean, Here's God. He spends 4000 years making covenant with Hebrews (Abraham), and with Isaac and Jacob and Jacob's children of twelve tribes who are called the children of Israel. Then it's prophesied Messiah, the Prophet like unto Moses is to come from "among thy brethren," meaning He'll be an Israelite, then when the time is ripe, send this Jewish Messiah to the Jewish people, Messiah even says He was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, sends His 12 disciples again to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, is crucified according to the Scriptures for "Jacob," resurrects and God's redemption of the Jewish people is complete, and after Messiah ascends into heaven sends the Holy Spirit in accordance to the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel, and while Israel tries to make sense and understand this Holy Spirit and their Jewish Messiah's effect upon the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants, and Gentiles think God's instruction to Israel in the form of prophecy and New Covenant Scriptures that God is addressing His sacred oracles to hard-core, uncircumcised Gentiles?
Yeah. You keep thinking that. When the two Jewish witnesses of Revelation 11 begin their prophesying, they'll set the Gentile Church straight on a great number of things with regard to what is true and what is false concerning biblical and historical doctrine.

No twisting.

People today lack discernment. Valid definitions have a genus and Differentia. The limits of equality is at the genus level. In that we are all equal in being Christ followers. Beyond that, much still differentiates us, although the difference pales in comparison. This is the proper understanding of Galations 3:28-29.

The proper understanding with regard to the New Covenant writings of Saul, Peter, James, John, Matthew, is that these writing are to Jewish Christians. It's a Jewish Covenant with a Jewish Messiah and a Jewish New Covenant. Of course, God is going to lead Israel into all truth. They are the ones who have covenant with God. Gentiles do not.

The question of this thread has nothing to do with religious tenets and everything to do with concept formation. A is A. And there is no time when it is not so. Now, one can argue that it does not matter that a Jew is a Jew. However, that is a different argument.

If "A" is "A" then why can't you understand that "A" it's a Jewish Covenant, and "B" it's a Jewish Messiah, and "C" the New Covenant Scriptures are written to Jewish Christians? I think there are blind-sides in your understanding of this so-great salvation. But try to keep your eyes open. All true believers will eventually come to the knowledge of the truth.