When Is A Jew Not A Jew?

[jeremiah1five]

Tamar.......... Ruth.........

Tamar, Ruth what?

Countless others before Israel. Melchizedek was the King of Salem. Salem was the national "prerunner" to Israel. Salem was a conquered nation. Christ made in the priestly order of Melchizedek

And what's the relevance?

Israel is nothing more than a "called out" group. A people of faith (should be). Just some.... among the many faithful.

But not everyone is in covenant with God.

 

[GeneZ]

But not everyone is in covenant with God.

Who is? Only Jews?

 

[Wrangler]

Gentile Christians take an inordinate pride is trying to connect themselves to being spiritual Israel or a spiritual Jew. But that can't be because to be a Jew or a spiritual Jew one would have to be from the tribe of Judah from which that designation originates.

Many words have more than one sense. So, it is with this idea that we spiritually come from Abraham.

Not sure where you get the idea of any inordinate pride. Is it permissible to have pride to be children of God? I think so.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So are you saying?

There are Jews today who are saved? And, Christians?

Of course there are Jews today that are saved, filled with the Spirit, tongue talkers, everything God promised to Israel of twelve tribes they have received back in the first century as part of the New Covenant. Christ built His Church and it was built before the Temple was destroyed. Judgment.
Then as part of God's program He began to save hard-core, uncircumcised Gentiles without a covenant. Thus began the Times of the Gentiles within an era called the Last Days.
When the last days of the Last Days comes to a conclusion God turns His full attention back to His Chosen, Covenant people Israel; and when the Temple was destroyed Israel took back seat to the things of God while for the last 2000 years Gentile Christians became predominant in God's program.
Later, the tables will turn and Gentile Christians will take back seat and Israel will be predominant in God's program. No doubt the Gentile Church will 'feel' snubbed. Even jealous. But the Gentile Church will go through the Times of Jacob's Trouble - the 70th Week - and God will bring all nations against His Chosen people - even Gentile Christians just as Zechariah prophesied. But Ezekiel says:

16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.
21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and fa new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezekiel 36:16–28.

The State of Israel became a nation May 14, 1948 and Jews have been returning in large numbers to their homeland since then. The end of the Times of the Gentiles is just around the corner.
Ever put your mind to consider what that day will look like? I have. And it is not pretty.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Who is? Only Jews?

Only Hebrews/Jews through the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenant.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I agree. But merely not understanding my position does not mean I am wrong.

I understand your position. I'm simply dealing aspects of it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Tamar, Ruth what?

And what's the relevance?

But not everyone is in covenant with God.

Tamar and Ruth were Gentiles in the bloodline of Jesus Christ.

The Priestly order of Jesus Christ was established in a "Gentile".... not from a single child of Abraham.

There is no faith without the covenant promise of God. Faith is powerless. Faith is simply trusting in what God has done for you. The power has to come from God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Gentile Christians take an inordinate pride is trying to connect themselves to being spiritual Israel or a spiritual Jew. But that can't be because to be a Jew or a spiritual Jew one would have to be from the tribe of Judah from which that designation originates.
They also try to link themselves as being a son of Abraham using this passage of Scripture in Paul's letter to Jewish Christians in the Galatian area:

29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal. 3:29.

But Paul is writing to Jewish Christians who were unsure of their Messiah's arrival and His effect upon the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants:

23 But before faith came, we [Jews] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us [Jews] unto Christ, that we [Jews] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [Jews] are no longer under a schoolmaster [the Law].
26 For ye [Jews] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus [Your Messiah].
27 For as many of you [Jews] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all [Jews] one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [Jews] be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal. 3:23–29.

No change. If you are Abraham's descendant seed, then you are also Christ's and heirs according to the Abrahamic Covenant Promises for God made no promises to Gentiles in the Abrahamic Covenant nor in the New Covenant Promise of Jeremiah 31.
Not even Abraham was a Jew. He was Hebrew from the line of Eber a descendant through Shem. Stay with me now.

Recently there was discussion about the "synagogue" of Satan in Revelation 2:9. Here is the Scripture:

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev. 2:8–9.

The Greek word translated "synagogue" in 2:9 means an "assemblage [of persons.]" It doesn't refer to Jews but is a word that merely means an "assemblage [of persons.]" It can mean an "assemblage" of Gentile Christians on Sunday morning or an "assemblage" of persons at a football game. There is nothing linking "synagogue" to Jews.

So, when is a Jew not a Jew? Jesus gives the answer in Rev. 2:9.

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev. 2:9.

Jesus would know who a true Jew is and who isn't, and in this passage, there is a confession to Jewry but Jesus who knows the 'hearts' of all says they are not Jews. There is no birthright to Judah or back to Abraham to those who say they are a descendant or son of Abraham. But Paul writing to Jewish Christians says that if you are Christ's, you are a descendant of Abraham according to the Promise God made to Abraham. So, what is this "assemblage" [of persons] that claim to be Jews and are not Jews? Maybe it's the false belief that Paul is writing to Gentile Christians - which he isn't - that because you belong to Jesus Christ that you are a descendant of Abraham. But that can't be for Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham nor is there any passage of Scripture in the First Covenant of God ever making covenant with Gentiles. None. Paul makes this clear in writing to Jewish Christians at Rome:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Rom. 9:4–5.

Everything regarding the above upon which salvation rests belong to Israel. Paul says so. There's no mention of Gentiles possessing any of the above. Even Christ's arrival was fulfilled prophecy and covenant, and Christ's very words state He was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, not the house of Gentiles. So, when is a Jew not a Jew?
When they claim to be of Abraham or Judah and there is just no biblical passage of Scripture that says this. Only in the minds of Gentiles that believe Paul's letters were written to Gentiles and interpret his words as such.
So, this synagogue or assemblage who say they are of Abraham or Judah are not from Abraham or Judah. How can they be? Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham or the tribe of Judah and Paul's words to the Jewish Christians in the Galatian region were addressed to the true sons of Abraham who did not know what the effect Israel's Messiah had on the Abrahamic Covenant, and the adoption, and the glory, and the giving of the Law, and the service of God, and the promises, whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came.

John the Baptist agrees:

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. Jn. 1:31.

So, when is a Jew not a Jew? When they make claims to Abraham or the tribe of Judah that just does not exist.
Maybe THEY are of the assemblage of Satan?
Think it through, Gentile Christian.
Revelations was written to the Jewish Christians about things about to shortly take place. You don't want to be on the wrong side of history.
Or of Christ.

For centuries "Jews" have intermarried with Gentiles to the point there is no clear line back to Judah for anyone.

 

[jeremiah1five]

you are sad read this
righteousness which is by faith.

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


any thing done in the Bible is faith. you can water your strange fire into ligiid molten . it will still be strange fire

OK. Now use Scripture.
Use the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.
Don't give me third-party discussion of the Law, Psalms, and Prophets. GIVE ME THE LAW, THE PSALMS, AND THE PROPHETS. Because all the New Covenant Scriptures of Saul, Peter, James, John, etc., are only discussion of the effect of Israel's Messiah upon the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants and they do then what we do today and that is discuss what is written in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. Which is what I am doing now, which is using the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets to interpret the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.
Can you do that? Are you able? And if you have trouble then go ahead and consult with Saul, Peter, James, and John, etc., about this so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Heb 2:3.

 

[Ezra]

OK. Now use Scripture.
Use the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.
Don't give me third-party discussion of the Law, Psalms, and Prophets. GIVE ME THE LAW, THE PSALMS, AND THE PROPHETS. Because all the New Covenant Scriptures of Saul, Peter, James, John, etc., are only discussion of the effect of Israel's Messiah upon the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants and they do then what we do today and that is discuss what is written in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. Which is what I am doing now, which is using the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets to interpret the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.
Can you do that? Are you able? And if you have trouble then go ahead and consult with Saul, Peter, James, and John, etc., about this so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Heb 2:3.

your chesses has slipped off its cracker

 

[jeremiah1five]

Tamar and Ruth were Gentiles in the bloodline of Jesus Christ.

Yes, and they married Jewish men in Covenant with God. They were aliens from the commonwealth until they married Jewish men.

The Priestly order of Jesus Christ was established in a "Gentile".... not from a single child of Abraham.

It wasn't establish through any hu-man.
(but with your statement you made me think of something and I had to change my initial reply and for right now will let this response stand until I consider further what your statement brought to my mind because it brought up some very interesting things which I will keep to myself for the moment until I can think this through.)

There is no faith without the covenant promise of God. Faith is powerless. Faith is simply trusting in what God has done for you. The power has to come from God.

And it does. But God made no covenant with Gentiles. He is gifting faith (Himself) and saving Gentiles without covenant. At least there is no covenant God made with Gentiles or any seed of Gentiles in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets - the Hebrew Scriptures.

 

[jeremiah1five]

your chesses has slipped off its cracker

Can't do it, huh.
That's OK. Gentiles have that problem I've found.

 

[jeremiah1five]

For centuries "Jews" have intermarried with Gentiles to the point there is no clear line back to Judah for anyone.

Jesus knows where He comes from. Temporally and eternally.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, and they married Jewish men in Covenant with God. They were aliens from the commonwealth until they married Jewish men.

I don't know how marrying a Jew makes the wife a Jew. God forbade marrying Gentiles. Besides Judah never married Tamar. She "played the whore".

It wasn't establish through any hu-man.
(but with your statement you made me think of something and I had to change my initial reply and for right now will let this response stand until I consider further what your statement brought to my mind because it brought up some very interesting things which I will keep to myself for the moment until I can think this through.)

Abraham meet the Priest of Salem and paid the "tithe" on the spoils. There is no controversy here. Christ's priestly order was established up THAT specific Priest. It is simple, yet powerful connection.

And it does. But God made no covenant with Gentiles. He is gifting faith (Himself) and saving Gentiles without covenant. At least there is no covenant God made with Gentiles or any seed of Gentiles in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets - the Hebrew Scriptures.

You need to realize that God made promises to Adam and Eve. "Jews" tend to overstate their "exclusive" appeal to God's purpose in themselves. Not that I'm not accepting of God's promises. You need to realize that there plenty of promises made to humanity before Abraham. Noah wasn't from Judah. Enoch wasn't from Judah. The heir of Judah came from the "daugher-in-law"....

There are plenty of meaningful aspects of redemption that come from these "real life events". Just like Abraham LIVED the Gospel in Isaac.....

That is what we do ourselves. It is what the faithful have done from the beginning.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus knows where He comes from. Temporally and eternally.

Yes. Adam. That is why He is referenced as the Second Adam... not the Second Abraham.

 

[GeneZ]

Only Hebrews/Jews through the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenant.

One New Man Bible: Revealing Jewish Roots and Power​

https://www.amazon.com/One-New-Man-Bible-Revealing/dp/1935769111


grace and peace .................

 

[GeneZ]

OK. Now use Scripture.
Use the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.
Don't give me third-party discussion of the Law, Psalms, and Prophets. GIVE ME THE LAW, THE PSALMS, AND THE PROPHETS. Because all the New Covenant Scriptures of Saul, Peter, James, John, etc., are only discussion of the effect of Israel's Messiah upon the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants and they do then what we do today and that is discuss what is written in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. Which is what I am doing now, which is using the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets to interpret the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets.
Can you do that? Are you able? And if you have trouble then go ahead and consult with Saul, Peter, James, and John, etc., about this so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Heb 2:3.

I grew up a Jew.

I know Jewish prejudice and bias when I see it.

Too bad it seems you do not want to be a part of the Body of Christ that you were baptized into by the Spirit when you first believed.

It does not mean you must approve of ignorance when you see it.

 

[GeneZ]

Only Hebrews/Jews through the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenant.

Am I a Jew then?

 

[Ezra]

Can't do it, huh.
That's OK. Gentiles have that problem I've found.

lol i been doing it all along your just not wanting to see a covenant is

noun​

1. A binding agreement; a compact. synonym: agreement.
   Similar: agreement
2. A condition in a contract such as a deed or lease, nonperformance or violation of which gives rise to a cause of action for breach.
3. A contrac

so we cant see God but accept what he has for us.. we do this BY FAITH. without faith it is impossible to please God. so to say the words Faith is not used . so its not of faith.. makes no sense. so all i been trying to do is reason with you.. but your so adamant of being right. you refuse to see . so as the lawyer says in a court case i rest my case. if you take it that is up to you. if you refuse it no skin off my nose. i will sleep just fine tonight

 

[jeremiah1five]

I don't know how marrying a Jew makes the wife a Jew.

No, it made her covenant.

God forbade marrying Gentiles.

He also forbade mingling with the Gentiles and learning their ways.

Besides Judah never married Tamar. She "played the whore".
Abraham meet the Priest of Salem and paid the "tithe" on the spoils. There is no controversy here. Christ's priestly order was established up THAT specific Priest. It is simple, yet powerful connection.

Depends. Was Mel human or a Christophany?

You need to realize that God made promises to Adam and Eve. "Jews" tend to overstate their "exclusive" appeal to God's purpose in themselves. Not that I'm not accepting of God's promises. You need to realize that there plenty of promises made to humanity before Abraham. Noah wasn't from Judah. Enoch wasn't from Judah. The heir of Judah came from the "daugher-in-law"....

What promise?

There are plenty of meaningful aspects of redemption that come from these "real life events". Just like Abraham LIVED the Gospel in Isaac.....

How can Abe live the gospel in Isaac. Isaac was his son.

That is what we do ourselves. It is what the faithful have done from the beginning.

??