jeremiah1five
Well-known member
God is speaking to Israel.
Again, show me Scripture in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets God making Covenant with Gentiles or the seed of any Gentile.
Psst...there is NONE.
When Is A Jew Not A Jew?
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
Psst...there is NONE.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I thought so.keep waiting .... God will open your EYES, 101G hope before it's too late.....YIKES
101G.
Just tell me God made no Covenant with Gentiles and be done with it instead of prolonging the inevitable.
GeneZ
Well-known member
What difference does that make today for any Jew or Gentile who has entered into regeneration and baptism into the body of Christ??????
Can you tell me?
We have all become co-heirs with Christ! The covenants can't compare!
“Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed
we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory." Romans 8:17
Now its your turn..
Show me show me Scripture in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets, God making any Jew a co-heir with the Lord!
You keep misapplying the covenants to the Jews by attributing them to members of the body of Christ who are no longer Jew nor gentile.
You need to stop and think.
and.... In the Spirit transform your thinking.
grace and peace ..................
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Yes. God keeps His Promises and He's still having many Promises He's made to National Israel of twelve tribes. And since Christ began building His Church in accordance with the New Covenant Promises of Jeremiah 31 you know this Covenant is with the House of Israel and the House of Judah of twelve tribes and the New Covenant Scriptures of Saul, Peter, James, John, Jude, and all four gospels are written to and for Israel in Covenant with God and they describe Jewish history as it unfolded. None of these writers - except the personal two letters by Saul to Timothy - are written to Gentiles. None of them. It's a Jewish Covenant with a Jewish Messiah as Promised by God through Moses, and God populated the early Church, which is a continuation of the Great Congregation in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle with Covenant Jews. God is ethnic. Very much so. He chose out of all peoples of the earth a certain tribe and enjoined them into several covenants and national promises to be His people and that they would serve Him regardless of their falling seven or more times. God is doing a great work in the earth and there is a reason why salvation is of the Jews. But there is no such thing as salvation is of the Gentiles. God is saving Gentiles without a Covenant so let Him and be eternally grateful that He is using Gentiles to make His people jealous and leading them to repentance and restoration for God is a God who restores. And God will restore Israel to the greatness He's Promised with His Son to sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem.
You misunderstand who Saul is writing to in Romans. He writes to his brethren (vs. 12), and being that Saul references the Law to a people that are in the Law, meaning Jews, He is affirming to them the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants God made with Abraham and the children of Israel for no hard-core, uncircumcised Gentiles would have the level of knowledge necessary to understand him in all his references to the covenants and the promises and the prophecies and their history and their prophets and their Tabernacle and the important people he brings up (David, Isaiah, etc.), that are the children of Israel of twelve tribes.
Those in the synagogues who were privy to the gospel of Saul were Gentile proselytes. And many Gentile proselytes became saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. You continue to think that the New Covenant Scriptures were written to uncircumcised Gentiles but God has made NO COVENANT with Gentiles. NONE.
As my signature says: I am a BIBLICAL Christian.
That's the ONLY KIND there is. If one's Christianity is not Biblical then it is not Christianity.
101G
Well-known member
He do not know. I have told him but he's blind as bat. the covenant made with Abraham, (who is NOT JEWISH), is a Covenant for all NATIONS, (by Faith).
@jeremiah1five also.
Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect." Genesis 17:2 "And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly." Genesis 17:3 "And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying," Genesis 17:4 "As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations." Genesis 17:5 "Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee." (NOT JUST ISRAEL ONLY). Genesis 17:6 "And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee." Genesis 17:7 "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee."
Notice God said "SEED" and not "SEEDS" as in Many, no, but in "ONE" Jesus the Christ, the "Lord". ALSO NOTE, this Covenant which shall ARISE/ESTABLISH is a for an everlasting covenant. STOP, fast Forward to Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" Jeremiah 31:32 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:" if the Covenant at Sania was broken, then it's NOT THE EVERLASTING COVENANT spoken of by God to Abraham. so, the JEWS are OUT just as anyone else. the Jews did not have an EVERLASTING Covenant at Sania, only until ...... Genesis 49:10 "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." Genesis 49:11 "Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ***'s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:" Genesis 49:12 "His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk."
what our brother J5 do not KNOW, that the term "BINDING" here is "EVERLASTING", meaning it, the Covenant, CANNOT BE BROKEN BY EITHER PARTY, God or Man. see, Binding means never "BROKEN", result.... "EVERLASTING". "Shiloh" is the EVERLASTING "ONE", who is the Messiah.
Shiloh:
H7886 שִׁילֹה Shiyloh (shee-lo') n/p.
1. tranquil.
2. Shiloh, an epithet of the Messiah.
[from H7951]
KJV: Shiloh.
Root(s)" H7951.
and this ROOT word,
H7951 שָׁלָה shalah (shaw-law') v.
שָׁלַו shalav (shaw-lav') [Job 3:26]
to be tranquil, i.e. secure or successful.
[a primitive root]
KJV: be happy, prosper, be in safety.
yes, this ROOT word just answered also the ONCE SAVED, Always Saved question. and here it is, "an EVERLASTING salvation.
how do 101G know this is the EVERLASTING Covenant. because it is also recorded in the Prophets, which J5 is also IGNORANT of.
First, THE EVERLASTING ONE. Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."
Next, The EVERLASTING COVENANT itself: Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts." DELIGHThere means happy, just as the root word of Shiloh means happy in safety, or happy in salvation, knowing it cannot be broken, hence no loss of Salvation....
the Lord is the Messenger of the EVERLASTING COVENANT did the Lord come? yes, fulfilled, Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." FULFILMENT: Matthew 2:3 "When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him." Matthew 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.(and CHRIST is SHILOH, the EVERLASTING ONE)" Matthew 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet," Matthew 2:6 "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel."
it's like reading a newspaper from the OT. that ruler/Governor, the messenger of the EVERLASTING COVENANT of the people that Herod was afraid of, is the SAVIOUR of ALL PEOPLE, supportive scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" 1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." yes, the WORLD, not just for Jews only, but the World.
101G.
P.S. if you cannot understand J5, just ask an INTELEGENT question. ..... ok, anything else...... talk to the HAND ..... of God, (smile), lol, lol, lol,
101G
Well-known member
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
You do what I seen others do, and that is, take a singular (THEE) and forced it into a plural. I seen others also take an adjective and force it into a noun or personal pronoun.
That's bad grammar and terrible hermeneutics and exegesis. You end up with far out, outlandish theories that oppose Scripture. But hey, you're learning.
I think.
God said, "BETWEEN ME AND THEE." There are no Gentiles mentioned. And Abram the Hebrew was Hebrew, not Gentile. Gentiles did not go into slavery in Egypt and Gentiles did not come out of Egypt. Egypt had a problem with the Hebrew population not Gentile population.
And the "nations" and "kings" God promised Abraham that would "come out of thee?" Abraham also had Ishmael and Ishmael had twelve sons and kings did come out of them, not Gentiles. Not to mention Isaac also had Esau and if you know any Hebrew history "nations" and "kings" did come out of this non-covenant family line. But Gentiles did not come from the loins of Abraham. They were already existing in the family line of Ham and Japheth. Shem, Abraham's father came from Eber, who is recognized by mostly all Christian scholars and theologians as the beginning of the Hebrew people and language. Let's see...did Gentiles come out of Sarah, too?
Now, pay attention. This is Bible:
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. Gen. 17:19.
Are you still paying attention?
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. Gen. 17:13.
Hold it. There's more:
15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. 16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:15–16.
Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham. Gentiles do not "come out of thee" (Abraham.)
Get it? Got it? Good.
Nah, I think you're blind. You see me signature? Biblical Christian. That's where Bible and this Christian meet. And it's a good place to be because while Gentiles like to insert themselves in the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants it is not to be for God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles. None. Zero, zip, nada.
No, the word [THEE] and [SEED] in the original is written by Moses in the singular. Look it up.
Bad hermeneutics, exegesis, and bad grammar overall.
It's a good thing God keeps HIS Promises. Unless you want to call God a liar and He lied that the Covenant with Abraham and his children (of Israel) is not everlasting. NOT! LOL.
Here, take a read. Learn something about the Eternal God and His Promises that will go and do the thing He sent it out to do:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jer. 31:31–34.
There are NO GENTILES in the above Covenant either. More bad grammar, exegesis, and hermeneutics on your part. But I forgive you IF you repent. But IF you do not repent, then there is no forgiveness. Sowwy. But that's Scripture, too.
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and IF he repent, forgive him. Lk 17:3.
Biblical Christianity at its finest.
Like Saul said, I yam what I yam.
Guck, guck, guck, guck.
LOL.
civic
Well-known member
Thanks for sharing your background with us as I just learned something about you I did not know. Much appreciated my friend.
101G
Well-known member
your First ERROR of this post. LISTEN & LEARN. Genesis 17:7 "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee."
did you understand God statement? apparently not. so let 101G break it down for you. the keyword here is "establish". God made a covenant ABRAHAM, and ESTABLISH it with him. (which he did, FAITH). and he, God, said he will ESTABLISH a covenant with his "SEED" and not "seeds" as in Many. so, the Covenant at Sinai was not Abrahamic in Nature, but a shadow of things to come. for the circumcision of the flesh was only a sign. supportive scripture, Deuteronomy 10:16 "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." For this what the apostle Paul via the Holy Spirit told them from the Beginning. Romans 2:29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
see the circumcision is spiritual, and not fleshly. that's why a new covenant was to be "ESTABLISH". Galatians 3:15 "Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto." Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." Galatians 3:17 "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect." Galatians 3:18 "For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise." Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." Galatians 3:21 "Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." Galatians 3:22 "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe." Galatians 3:23 "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed." Galatians 3:24 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3:25 "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Second ERROR of this post. yes, please do pay attention. Genesis 17:19 "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him." question, is Isaac everlasting? answer NO. so the Covenant is not establish with him for erver either. DID YOU GET THAT? NO HUMAN IS EVERLASTING, EXCEPT CHRIST, who is God in flesh. HOW BLIND CAN ONE BE .... A EVERLASTING COVENANT REQUIRE AN EVERLASTING PARTY WITH GOD. Oh my, how BLIND can one be.
let 101G cut this to an END is any of Abraham "seed" an EVERLASTING person? answer NO. so who is the ONLY "EVERLASTING SEED?' answer, Shiloh
the MESSIAH, last time,
H7886 שִׁילֹה Shiyloh (shee-lo') n/p.
1. tranquil.
2. Shiloh, an epithet of the Messiah.
[from H7951]
KJV: Shiloh.
Root(s): H7951
now let's count the bodies.
Abraham is dead, so is Isaac, as well as Jacob, and so on until Shiloh see, there is no one after him, all has to be, be, be, be, in, in, in, him.... he's the LAST ADAM. My God can you comprehend? DEAD MEN DO NOT MAKE COVENANTS. when the Lord Jesus died .... that ended all covenants before from Abraham until Shiloh for all must be got to be ...... in, in, in, the Lord Jesus, Shiloh
so take your Jewish glasses off and see the light. now go back and LEARN, which is the First principle of oracles of God.
101G.
Johann
Well-known member
Sounds like you have a problem with the Ha-Goyim-right?
Johann
Well-known member
Do Gentiles receive the promises of the covenants given to Abraham?
In Ephesians Paul teaches that Gentiles were not natural recipients of the covenants though they were included. Beginning with Abraham, the Lord made promises to bring a Deliverer through Abraham’s family. The family of Abraham are the Jewish people, beginning with Isaac. Prior to Isaac, there was no such thing as Jew or Gentile. By definition, the word Gentile means someone who is not Jewish, therefore the concept of a Gentile has no meaning unless a Jewish nation exists.
Therefore, we say Isaac was the first Jew (i.e., the first in Abraham’s family to receive the promises). All who descend from Isaac and Jacob are the people of the covenant. Later, God elaborates on His covenant by speaking through the prophets and eventually through Christ Himself. All these promises were given to the Jewish people, not to Gentiles, and only those who trace their ancestry to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob may be considered Jews.
Thankfully, the Lord also made accommodation for Gentiles in His covenants:
GEN. 12:1 Now the Lord said to Abram,
“Go forth from your country,
And from your relatives
And from your father’s house,
To the land which I will show you;
GEN. 12:2 And I will make you a great nation,
And I will bless you,
And make your name great;
And so you shall be a blessing;
GEN. 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.
And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”
Notice in the covenant given to Abraham, the Lord declared that through Abraham’s family (i.e., the Jewish people) all families (i.e., the Gentiles) would be blessed. Clearly, the Lord sees other nations as distinct from Abraham’s family because He declares Abraham’s family will become a great nation apart from all other families on earth.
So the Lord promised that He would extend the blessing He assigned to the Jewish people into all the world. Gentiles are the not recipients of the covenants but we do have opportunity to participate in them (by faith) and therefore receive the blessings of these promises. Paul describes our relationship to the covenants given to Israel in this way:
ROM. 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
ROM. 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Gentiles are “grafted” into the promises given to Israel by our faith Christ, Who is the promised fulfillment of those covenants. Paul says were are being grafted into a root that we were not naturally a part of, though we now are nourished by the root. The root in Paul’s analogy is the nation of Israel and the covenants God gave to that nation. We are not naturally born Jews, but nevertheless we are receiving what God promised to the Jews by our faith.
Johann
Well-known member
6. The Fulfillment Of The Abrahamic Covenant | Bible.org
One of the outstanding covenants of the Scriptures is the covenant of God with Abraham. Its provisions not only condition the immediate life and blessing of Abraham himself but they constitute the key to the subsequent history of Israel and God’s purpose in relation to the saints. From the...
Gen_14:14-16, Gen_18:18, Gen_19:29, Gen_28:4; 1Ki_1:47; Gal_3:14
Gen_13:16, Gen_15:5, Gen_17:5-6, Gen_18:18, Gen_22:17-18, Gen_24:35, Gen_26:4, Gen_27:29, Gen_28:3, Gen_28:14; Gen_35:11, Gen_46:3; Exo_1:7, Exo_32:10; Num_14:12, Num_24:9-10; Deu_26:5; 2Sa_7:9; 1Ki_3:8-9; Mic_7:20; Rom_4:11; Gal_3:7
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Eureka! I have found it! Your error or errors. The one upon which all your fallacy rests.
God is not a God of the dead, but of the living!
Fix this and everything should fall into place!
Gotcha!
Thank me, later.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The only way to read the Jewish Scriptures is not with glasses, but with Jewish eyes and mind. Salvation is of the Jews, or were you absent that day from class that morning.
The problem you exhibit is in your understanding of WHO God is speaking to in the New Covenant Scriptures of Saul, Peter, James, and John and the others. You keep compounding error upon error. You think in your mind that God is going to spend 4000 years establishing His promises and covenants with a people and family called the children of Israel all the way down to Abram the Hebrew and at the last great culminated Covenant described in Jeremiah 31 God's first words in the New Covenant era is to hard-core, uncircumcised, idol-worshiping Gentiles? You think more highly than you ought, not soberly. Not at all. Come down off your throne, Gentile. God can make the stones in your front yard children of Abraham. LOL.
3000 Jews were saved at Pentecost. They returned to their homes and synagogues after the Feast and preached Jesus Messiah to their Jewish brethren and circumcised Gentile proselytes in those same synagogues, and why not. Gentile proselytes would be the only Gentiles allowed in their synagogues able to hear about Yeshua Messiah. It was, after all, a Jewish Covenant and Messiah was He not? And for about 20 years before Saul came on the scene it was Jews being born-again and filled with their Covenant Holy Spirit that were populating their synagogues at first and home churches. Everything concerning the early Church Christ built was Jewish. The book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. James' letter is written to the "twelve tribes scattered." Each and every gospel and epistle were written to Jewish Christians. Only Jews would understand the Jewish history, culture, people, places, events, religion, covenants, practices, and language contained in those writings. Uncircumcised Gentile idol-worshippers would not understand any references of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, the covenants, the prophets and prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, David, etc., that Saul writes about. Galatians is written to Jewish Christians.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them Gal. 3:10.
Only a Jew taught in the Hebrew Scriptures from the crib would understand anything having to do with their Law. And besides believing that God is a God of the dead Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, your understanding of the recipients of God's Word is your second greatest error.
Dead Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Is that something like the Dead Kennedys?
That would be one dead concert.
Get it together over there. Your errors are showing.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
All families means all families of twelve tribes. God made no covenant with Gentiles. None.
However, as Saul says:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth
the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning
the flesh Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Rom. 9:4–5.
There it is. Everything about salvation is of the Jews. None of the above were given to Gentiles. None.
Jesus said plainly: I am not come except to the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL.
And He said that right in the face of a Gentile.
So, why do you disagree with Him and Saul's words in Romans 9?
Why graft Gentiles in when God instead could have just said in Jeremiah the New Covenant is ALSO with the house of Gentiles? But God doesn't say that because God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles.
NONE.
None at all. Never, zero, zip, nada.
This is not hard to understand, Johann.
Johann
Well-known member
It is not hard to understand where you are coming from @jeremiah1five -
The Claim that Jesus was a Prophet Only to Israel
Some Muslims contend that Jesus' ministry was only for the Children of Israel and not for all mankind, as Christians believe. On the basis of this argument, they attempt to persuade Christians to become followers of Muhammad, since they claim he alone was a universal prophet for all people for all time. To support their claim, these Muslims are quick to cite the following verses from the New Testament:
These twelve (disciples) Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel."
Matthew 10:5-6
He (Jesus) answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
Matthew 15:24
It is important to realize first of all that Jesus was born of the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He was the fulfillment of the promise that God had made to Abraham many centuries earlier.
Because of obedience and submission to God's will, God's promise to Abraham was two-fold. First, God promised to bless his lineage, namely Isaac, Jacob (Israel), and the Children (descendants) of Israel.
Secondly, God promised that from this lineage of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would rise up a blessing for all nations, meaning all mankind. (see Acts 3:25-26 and Galatians 3:8,14).
In this promise to Abraham, both the descendants of Israel, and the Gentiles (all non-Israelites) were to be blessed.
This was confirmed many centuries later when Jesus was born. When the baby Jesus was taken to the temple for dedication, a devout elderly man who had been praying there was moved upon by the Spirit of God. He took the child in his arms and proclaimed these words in prayer to God:
For my eyes have seen Your salvation, which You have prepared in the sight of all people, a light (1) for revelation to the Gentiles, and (2) for glory to Your people Israel.
Luke 2:30-32
From the passage above, we understand Jesus' ministry to be likewise two-fold. First of all, because he was born of the Children of Israel, his first mission was to reveal himself and God to the Israelites. They were God's chosen people -- the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Even the Qur'an bears witness to this distinction:
And commemorate Our servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, possessors of power and vision. Verily, We did choose them for a special (purpose) -- proclaiming the message of the hereafter.
Surat-us Sad (38):45-46
Children of Israel, call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My message).
Surat-ul Baqara (2):47
Unfortunately, over the course of time, the Children of Israel had grown hardened and indifferent to the things of God. As a result, it was necessary for Jesus to minister personally among them with signs and wonders in order to confirm to them that he was the long-awaited Messiah, the Blessed One, the Anointed One whom God had sent to redeem His chosen people.
For this reason during his personal ministry, Jesus instructed his disciples to go only to the Children of Israel. They were to hear the message first. This was to be their privilege because they were the people of God's covenant, the promise of blessing. Following the death and resurrection of Jesus, one of his disciples addressed the Israelites as follows:
And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, "Through your offspring (descendants), all people on earth will be blessed." When God raised his servant (Jesus the Messiah), He sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.
Acts 3:25-26
4) "Shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed," (eleulogethesontai pasai hai patriai tes ges) "All the families of the earth shall be blessed." Gen_12:1-3; Gen_21:12; Gen_25:5; Gal_3:16-18; Gal_3:29.
the children: Act_2:39, Act_13:26; Gen_20:7, Gen_27:36-40, Gen_48:14-20, Gen_49:1-33; Psa_105:8-15; Mat_3:9-10
the covenant: Gen_17:9-10, Gen_17:19; 1Ch_16:17; Neh_9:8; Luk_1:72; Rom_9:4-5, Rom_15:8; Gal_3:29
And in: Gen_12:3, Gen_18:18, Gen_22:18, Gen_26:4, Gen_28:14; Rom_4:13; Gal_3:8, Gal_3:16
all: Psa_22:27, Psa_96:7; Rev_5:9, Rev_7:9, Rev_14:6
It is important to realize that the second part of Jesus' mission was most significant. That mission was to give his life a ransom for the sins of all mankind (1 Timothy 2:4-6). This was the blessing that was for all nations -- the good news that Jesus, by the shed blood of his suffering on the cross, paid the penalty for the sins of mankind, and that whoever accepts this blessing of salvation is assured eternal life with God!
This is what is written: The Christ (Al-Masih) will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke 24:46-47
The Scriptures are clear that this salvation in Jesus the Messiah is available for all people, both Jews and Gentiles of all nations. Remember, during Jesus' earthly and personal ministry he instructed his disciples to go only to the Israelites. But after the second part of his mission was completed (his atoning death on the cross), notice what he then instructed his disciples:
You will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
Acts 1:8
... go and make disciples of all nations (all people).
Matthew 28:19
Jesus himself confirmed the universal nature of his mission when he declared these words:
I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.
John 8:12
Again Jesus is referring to himself as that special blessing or revelation of mercy for all people, for all mankind. The Qur'an likewise points to the universal mission of Jesus. God Himself is quoted as saying:
... and (We wish) to appoint him (Jesus) as a Sign unto men ("ayat-al linnasi"), and a mercy from Us.
Surat-u Maryam (19):21
Notice, it does not say, "a sign only to the Israelites" as some Muslims would have us believe. In fact the Arabic indicates a "sign to mankind!"
It would appear you have a problem with the two fold purpose and nature of Messiah @jeremiah1five--with the INCLUSION of the Ha-Goyim.
We are certainly living in the age of " Enlightenment"
Are you honestly want to tell me Messiah only died for His "favorites" and NOT for the Goyim?
101G
Well-known member
here is the TRUTH, and NOT a FIX, listen and Learn, ..... and weep. Romans 14:9 "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living."
and Lord here is God.
101G
Johann
Well-known member
Who are you waiting for?
Messiah ben Yoseph-or ben David?
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The blessings God promised Abraham is a promise to him and those that would "come out of thee" (Abraham), and Gentiles, or "all nations" in your understanding are not Gentiles for Gentiles/all nations do not come "out of thee" (Abraham.) I only take Scripture as written. If the context or definitions and identities are not mentioned, then I don't add my own. Mankind is not mentioned in the Abrahamic Covenant, but only those that "come out of thee" (Abraham) Gen. 17.
Ishmael and Esau are "non-Israelite." But they do "come out of thee" (Abraham.)
Identities can be mixed up unintentionally. As is said, God's grace is sufficient to save "all mankind," but God doesn't apply it to "all mankind." He gives it to those chosen [book of life] from (before) the foundation of the world.
Availability is not in God's program if taken as though it is something in our capability to do.
Salvation is of the Jews, and salvation is of the LORD. God saves the Jews (covenant), and God saves the Gentiles (non-covenant.) And both are due to the grace of God.
Again, Ishmael and Esau's descendants are in view here not anyone who did not "come out of thee." (Abraham) meaning non-Abrahamic peoples. I take to command [to go] to "all nations" (and make disciples) as the descendants of Abraham and not Gentiles. Today, the "all nations" are the people from the Ishmaelites and Esau, or the Arab (taken in the same way "Jew" is used of all Israel of twelve tribes, so, too "Arab" is used of all Ishmaelites of twelve tribes and Esau's descendants. Although Ishmael and Esau are not in the family line of covenant descendants (Isaac, Jacob, twelve tribes etc.), each did receive blessings from God.
"The world" are in context to those in covenant. Same with John 3:16. In other words, "I am the Light of all [the] world, meaning those in covenant. Makes no sense to me to be a "Light" to all He's NOT going to save.
The Quran is not inspired writings anointed of God. There's not enough 'salt' in the world in which I can take it.
Christ died for those whose names are written in the book of life of the lamb slain.
"Seed" are those that "come out of thee" (Abraham) within the confines of covenant:
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. Gen. 17:19–20.
...does not identify non-seed Gentiles here for no Gentile comes from the loins of Abraham. I believe the word [nations] is used "generically" to identify a portion of his seed (Ishmael/Esau: non-covenant) just as "world" is used in John 3:16 to identify those in covenant.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I understand that.
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