When Is A Jew Not A Jew?

[101G]

1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
Zech. 14:1–2.

and?

Last time I checked the Gentile Church is overflowing with Gentiles.

well check again.... (smile), LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear.

So, Saul contradicts himself by saying two opposites. One is a lie,

ERROR you lied in your belief. the apostle Paul is correct in what he said.

And you can bet He's going to make sure ALL NATIONS - even Gentile Christians who believe in Replacement Theology, or falsely believe that in spiritual matters they are in covenant with Abraham in their erroneous understanding of Galatians 3:28-29 already have an attitude against Israel today.

Israel is nothing special.

Nope. You read the Scriptures with a Gentile bias as though Israel lost all her benefits of covenant and now Gentiles are up to bat. That's ignorant pride talking. The New Covenant writings of gospel, epistles, etc. are written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jewish Christians and the main theme is their attempts at searching the Hebrew Scriptures to make sense and understand Messiah's effect upon the existing Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants. THAT is the context of Galatians 3:28-29, and all the New Covenant writings of Saul, Peter, James, John, etc.

nonsense again, who are the overcomer who walk with God in white? Revelation 3:4 "Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy." Revelation 3:5 "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:6 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." IS THE CHURCH IN SARDIS JEWISH, OR IN ISRAEL? NO.... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear.

At the Marriage Supper Israel is there by Covenant.
Gentiles are there by invitation (Matt. 22.)

which Israel? fleshly ISRAEL.... No.... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear. how IGNORANT.

There is no rapture, and if you look at the war in the middle east on the news there is surely an Israel

did you not read, "CARNALLY". .... see this is why you do not understand nothing.

At the Marriage Supper Israel is there by Covenant.

not fleshly Israel..... (smile)...... YIKES!

The reason why God knows the end from the beginning is because He's ORDAINED the end. Predestination. What a beautiful doctrine for those that are truly saved.

why do you think that the word of God is also called Prophetic? Oh my babes in Christ.

101G.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So much for civility OR religious freedom.

Well then, believe as you will. If you are truly saved the Holy Spirit of Truth will bring you in His time to the knowledge of the truth. In the meantime, holding to false beliefs is the same as erecting false idols of God and THIS is what you will worship. And if you are saved and hold to false belief it will affect your relationship until the Holy Spirit of Truth again brings you to the knowledge of the truth.

I've come to the conclusion that it is not heretical doctrines that are the problem. The problem is doctrine itself, which is just a form of IDOLATRY. Proof of this is that you do not find a doctrinal purity test in Scripture as a requirement for salvation.

Of course, there is a test. He's called the Holy Spirit. He is the standard by which all theology of belief is judged against.

God made salvation so easy, the human mind cannot grasp it. So, we invent ways to do evil, such as create manmade doctrine and say things like anyone who disagrees should not be allowed to exist.

War is coming. And all wars occur when no two can walk together because one says the sky is green, the other, the sky is blue. In Biblical Christianity it occurs because 'they' don't see the same Jesus [of the Bible], nor say the same thing as God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That has to be the longest sentence I've seen this century.

You obviously have an axe to grind against Gentiles. We do agree on this, Jesus was the Jesus Messiah born under the law, required to believe in a unitarian God not a 3-in-1 manmade invention of the 4th century.

The doctrine of the Trinity did not find its fullest expression until the Advent of the Son.
It's not my axe and I'm not grinding it. It's Gods. He's the final arbiter of what's true and what is false. I'm just a child of truth being taught the word of truth by the Spirit of Truth about the God is Truth. And when someone says a wrong thing about the One True God, I have responsibility to counter with the truth of Scripture, but ultimately God is the One who controls how much light a person or generation of persons receives. Not only that but God controls the eyes, mind, ears, etc., and He determines who understands what about Him in accordance with His will. Many factors affect when one comes to the knowledge of the truth. Love is an edification. Knowledge is like a balloon. And God does the 'puffing up.'

 

[jeremiah1five]

So, you deny John 3:16?

No. It's that my understanding of it is different than yours. I see the word "world" in context to WHOM is being addressed. It is not 'universal' but localized. IF God is speaking to the Jews (and He is in Nicodemus), then God so loved everyone in Covenant (again the Jews) that whosoever (of those Jews) believeth in Him (and right now it's not everyone because God is blinding their eyes), shall not perish. Jesus also said:

19 And this is the condemnation, that light [CHRIST] is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light [CHRIST], because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light [CHRIST], neither cometh to the light [CHRIST], lest his deeds should be reproved. Jn 3:19–20.

This agrees with what Saul says in Romans:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom. 3:11.

Everyone does evil/darkness.
Everyone loves evil/darkness.
Everyone hates the light/Christ.
Neither do the come to the light/Christ because they love darkness/evil, and Jesus said a man will have only one master.
Everyone that does evil does not seek God neither come to God so God can deal with their darkness/evil. So, they stay in evil and darkness. Saul calls it a master/servant relation. And we know from Scripture it is a bondage until the stronger [CHRIST] binds the strong 'man' (sin) and then pilfers 'his' goods.

So, take another look at John 3:16 from a Jewish mindset and not a Gentile, non-Jewish mindset. When you understand several things first then your understanding of Scripture will deepen.

Understand that it's a Jewish Covenant.
That Christ/Messiah was Promised to the Jewish people in Covenant.
That Jesus was of Jewish descent as prophesied.
That when He did come that He was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
That Jesus sent His disciples to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
That Israel is betrothed to God in and by covenant.
That Israel is the Church (of called out [ones]) of God.
That Christ died for His Church/Israel ("a Deliverer shall come out of Zion and save Jacob...")
That the New Covenant was promised to the House of Israel.
That the Holy Spirit came to Israel as per the Mosaic and New Covenant.
That the Holy Spirit saved 3000 Jews on Pentecost and when the returned to their homes in Gentile lands they took a small sampling of Peter's sermon, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit with them.
That everything that occurred to these Jews specifically, and to Israel generally was in accordance with the New Covenant.
That as long as the Temple stood everything that happened was done to and for Israel as per the new Covenant.
That in the beginning not everyone understood what was happening in Israel and it took time to 'search the Scriptures' in order TO understand these things.
That everything that happened in and to Israel was a Jewish phenomenon.
That Saul, Peter, James, John, Matthew, etc., wrote to Jewish Christians about the New Covenant happenings and did what they could to understand Messiah's effect upon their Abrahamic (Gal. 3:28-29) and Mosaic Covenants.
That before Jesus ascended, He sent His disciples into Israel and Gentile lands (where twelve tribes lived) to herald to 12 tribes Messiah's arrival and what it now means to them.
That God is sending two Jewish witnesses/prophets to Israel to show through their Law, Psalms, and prophets that this Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah, and with God removing Israel's blindness will finally come to the knowledge of the truth.
That Christ returns - as per Zechariah - to fight alongside Israel against God's enemies - which may include Gentile Christians.
That God made no covenant with Gentiles or any seed of Gentiles.
That at the Marriage Supper Israel is there by Covenant and Gentiles are there by invitation (Matt. 22.)
Salvation is of God (Jonah 2:9.)
Salvation is of the Jews.

When you accept all these truths then your eyes will open and THEN you will see the parts concerning hard-core, uncircumcised Gentile believers/Church in a whole new light.

 

[jeremiah1five]

It's because of many verses that deny your claim.

The Scriptures do not contradict Scripture. The weak link in this equation is how one understands those Scriptures.
So, post your Scriptures that you say deny my claims.

Romans 10:9 if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from among the dead, you will be saved. There is no qualifier "if you are Jewish."

OK. Saul is writing to Jewish Christians, and this is not a formula for salvation, but quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures to ENCOURAGE these same Jewish Christians in their new existence in and with their Messiah in this New Covenant which God made with the House of Israel.

John 20:31 these are written so that you believe that Jesus is the Christ,d the Son of God, and so that by believing you will have life in his name. Again, there is no qualifier "if you are Jewish."

John's gospel/good news can only be Jewish since this historical is about Jesus who is their promised Messiah and that what John writes is so that they - the Jews - may come to believe what is true, that this Jesus born of Jewish parents is their prophesied Messiah. The whole letter is Jewish and talks about a Jewish Messiah. Hard-core, uncircumcised Gentiles would not have the level of knowledge of Jewish history, culture, understanding of Judaism, etc., that this good news addresses.

John 17:1-3 (NLT) Father … And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God. NOTE: The way to have eternal life has nothing to do with requiring one to be a Jew.

A Jewish Messiah sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel had come to Israel, taught Israel from their Law, and died for Israel 'according to the Scriptures' and those Scriptures are Jewish through and through. Only a Jew would understand what is written therein for it speaks to Jews about a Jewish Messiah.

 

[jeremiah1five]

lol i have gave you word i have as well as others have showed you faith ..lets the Abraham covenant when did Abram become Abraham the father of faith ?

Can you show me in the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis 17 God's requirement of faith?
No, you can't. You just dance around this question and bring up other things to not answer and to confuse the question.
It doesn't work. You, as well as others failed.

gen 17

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I am El-Shaddai—‘God Almighty.’ Serve me faithfully and live a blameless life. 2 I will make a covenant with you, by which I will guarantee to give you countless descendants.”

3 At this, Abram fell face down on the ground. Then God said to him, 4 “This is my covenant with you: I will make you the father of a multitude of nations! 5 What’s more, I am changing your name. It will no longer be Abram. Instead, you will be called Abraham,[a] for you will be the father of many nations. 6 I will make you extremely fruitful. Your descendants will become many nations, and kings will be among them!

7 “I will confirm my covenant with you and your descendants[b] after you, from generation to generation. This is the everlasting covenant: I will always be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 And I will give the entire land of Canaan, where you now live as a foreigner, to you and your descendants. It will be their possession forever, and I will be their God.”

And STILL no evidence God required faith in this covenant.

The Mark of the Covenant​

9 Then God said to Abraham, “Your responsibility is to obey the terms of the covenant. You and all your descendants have this continual responsibility. 10 This is the covenant that you and your descendants must keep: Each male among you must be circumcised. 11 You must cut off the flesh of your foreskin as a sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 From generation to generation, every male child must be circumcised on the eighth day after his birth. This applies not only to members of your family but also to the servants born in your household and the foreign-born servants whom you have purchased. 13 All must be circumcised. Your bodies will bear the mark of my everlasting covenant. 14 Any male who fails to be circumcised will be cut off from the covenant family for breaking the covenant.”

The mark, or sign of the covenant is circumcision. Still, no faith is God requiring in this covenant.

Sarai Is Named Sarah​

15 Then God said to Abraham, “Regarding Sarai, your wife—her name will no longer be Sarai. From now on her name will be Sarah.[c] 16 And I will bless her and give you a son from her! Yes, I will bless her richly, and she will become the mother of many nations. Kings of nations will be among her descendants.”

17 Then Abraham bowed down to the ground, but he laughed to himself in disbelief. “How could I become a father at the age of 100?” he thought. “And how can Sarah have a baby when she is ninety years old?” 18 So Abraham said to God, “May Ishmael live under your special blessing!”

19 But God replied, “No—Sarah, your wife, will give birth to a son for you. You will name him Isaac,[d] and I will confirm my covenant with him and his descendants as an everlasting covenant. 20 As for Ishmael, I will bless him also, just as you have asked. I will make him extremely fruitful and multiply his descendants. He will become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will be confirmed with Isaac, who will be born to you and Sarah about this time next year.” 22 When God had finished speaking, he left Abraham.

23 On that very day Abraham took his son, Ishmael, and every male in his household, including those born there and those he had bought. Then he circumcised them, cutting off their foreskins, just as God had told him. 24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, 25 and Ishmael, his son, was thirteen. 26 Both Abraham and his son, Ishmael, were circumcised on that same day, 27 along with all the other men and boys of the household, whether they were born there or bought as servants. All were circumcised with him.



see he went from Abram to Abraham the cov was accepted by faith not the word obey how do you obey BY FAITH when some one who you cant see but only hears tells you to do something . its a act of faith done by faith. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. he had hope in the covenant which hope is a type of faith even though he couldn't se
off course in turn you will water it down by using strange fire . see i know scriptures i used scriptures to show you faith . be my guest to reject it,


BTW DONT FLATTER YOUR SELF THINKING I CANT KEEP UP.. i can when i want to

And still you can't show me where God says "You must have faith" to Abraham in this covenant.
It's NOT THERE.

 

[jeremiah1five]

It was sin. The patriarchs sinned. Christ died for sinners. All of them. Your appeal to Jew/Judah isn't working. There is only one Heir with all the promises. That is Jesus Christ.

God has covenant with Hebrews/Jews. Messiah was promised to the Jews.
Messiah came to and for the Jews.
Messiah taught Jews from out of their Law.
Christ died for His Bride and Church, covenant Israel according TO THEIR SCRIPTURES (Eph. 5:25.)
Messiah comes to and for His Bride and Church who is Israel and fights alongside Israel against God's enemies (which may include Gentile Christians.)
ONE Heir, and He performed all God required of the covenant Jews FOR covenant Jews.

 

[jeremiah1five]

and?

YOU again!
You just love to shadow me, don't cha?

well check again.... (smile), LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear.
ERROR you lied in your belief. the apostle Paul is correct in what he said.

Really? The original in Isaiah says, "remnant shall RETURN." Saul changes the word to "shall BE SAVED," and completely changes the prophecy to his liking which is tantamount to adding to the bible, and as you know John warned against in Revelation.
When the canon was being compiled a couple of church fathers didn't want Romans in the bible. I am looking into why.
Well, men are fallible, and Saul sure showed his fallible-ness.

Here's another of Saul's errors:

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Philippians 3:6.

Doesn't Saul write and teach one cannot be/get righteousness from/in the Law?

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal. 2:21.

He sounds double minded. Unstable in all his ways??

Well, the answer is let's date the letters. Maybe he didn't know something early on but learned it afterwards. I mean, in the beginning EVERYONE wasn't sure how to measure Messiah's effect on the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants right away. They had to search the Hebrew Scriptures for the answer and understanding the Messiah's effect on the covenants took time.

Israel is nothing special.

Sure. Being the apple of God's eye is nothing special TO YOU, but to God He sent His Son to die for His Bride and covenant people (Eph. 5:25.)

nonsense again, who are the overcomer who walk with God in white? Revelation 3:4 "Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy." Revelation 3:5 "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:6 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." IS THE CHURCH IN SARDIS JEWISH, OR IN ISRAEL? NO.... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear.

Sardis was founded by Jewish Christians who returned from Pentecost filled with the Holy Spirit, an outline of Peter's sermon, and Jesus.

which Israel? fleshly ISRAEL.... No.... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear. how IGNORANT.

There is only ONE Israel, not two. And uncircumcised Gentiles are DEFINITELY NOT in covenant Israel.

did you not read, "CARNALLY". .... see this is why you do not understand nothing.

Carnal. Yeah. Of the flesh. ONLY Israel is Israel of the flesh and of the Spirit. It's included in all three covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenant.) The Holy Spirit was Promised to the House of Israel in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Or don't you believe the Scripture, shadow dude?

not fleshly Israel..... (smile)...... YIKES!

why do you think that the word of God is also called Prophetic? Oh my babes in Christ.

101G.

waaa...waaa...
When I became a man, I put away childish things...like the error that Gentiles have covenant with God and other things.
You'll grow up.
One day.
You hope.
LOL

 

[Ezra]

And still you can't show me where God says "You must have faith" to Abraham in this covenant.
It's NOT THERE.

lol and you cant prove its not of faith / Abraham is the father of faith i showed you wait faith was in scripture . did God write out a binding contract which required both His and Abrahams signature to guarantee the terms of the Covenant ? NO he did not he accepted t BY FAITH /

what is faith things HOPED FOR evidence of things not seen. no paper contract agreeing to the terms the things NOT seen yet he hoped in it which is Faith . did you see a paper saying your saved the time you was born again? you accepted it by faith see in romans 10 it says whosover shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.. it DOES NOT say faith does it ? gotta go the mule is at the gate again/ and there is a dead horse in front of it.. i keep trying to get him to move


this makes twice i explained it....

 

[Ezra]

When I became a man, I put away childish things..

then put the childish things away

 

[Wrangler]

If you are truly saved the Holy Spirit of Truth will bring you in His time to the knowledge of the truth.

A lack of humility is your presumption that I am already saved with the knowledge and truth under discussion.

 

[Wrangler]

A

The doctrine of the Trinity did not find its fullest expression until the Advent of the Son.

Aka NOT Biblical.

 

[e v e]

the op post transfers a context related to the soul and belonging to the other reality,

and

wrongly glues the context to fleshbody types.

 

[jeremiah1five]

lol and you cant prove its not of faith / Abraham is the father of faith i showed you wait faith was in scripture . did God write out a binding contract which required both His and Abrahams signature to guarantee the terms of the Covenant ? NO he did not he accepted t BY FAITH /

Where does it say Abe was the father of faith in Scripture?
And there is no requirement of faith in the Abraham Covenant. The contract you say that is between Abe and God says nothing about faith. Nada. So, if you know anything about contracts or covenants you know you can't add items after the fact. It just won't fly.

what is faith things HOPED FOR evidence of things not seen. no paper contract agreeing to the terms the things NOT seen yet he hoped in it which is Faith . did you see a paper saying your saved the time you was born again? you accepted it by faith see in romans 10 it says whosover shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.. it DOES NOT say faith does it ? gotta go the mule is at the gate again/ and there is a dead horse in front of it.. i keep trying to get him to move


this makes twice i explained it....

It matters not Abraham had faith. I'm saying the contract (Gen. 17) says nothing about faith being a requirement. That makes a zillioneth time I've said so.
Just tell me you can't find faith as a requirement in the covenant described in Genesis 17. While you're at it show me where Gentiles are mentioned in the contract.
Pssat...it's not there. So, adding faith or Gentiles cannot be done in a sealed contract, especially one signed, sealed, and delivered by blood.
"It is finished!?

 

[jeremiah1five]

A lack of humility is your presumption that I am already saved with the knowledge and truth under discussion.

I know when Messiah comes, He will tell us all things.
In the meantime, you have me.
So, pay attention.

 

[jeremiah1five]

A

Aka NOT Biblical.

You already had God and His Spirit in Genesis. The Son shows up and things changed.
Now there's a Trinity of God.
And it is marvelous in our eyes (but I can't speak for yours.)

 

[Ezra]

It is finished

only thing you have gotten right in all this junk .

 

[Ezra]

I know when Messiah comes, He will tell us all things.
In the meantime, you have me.
So, pay attention.

are you Jewish? actually i should have never replied to you at all/ your on ignore

 

[dwight92070]

Where does it say Abe was the father of faith in Scripture?
And there is no requirement of faith in the Abraham Covenant. The contract you say that is between Abe and God says nothing about faith. Nada. So, if you know anything about contracts or covenants you know you can't add items after the fact. It just won't fly.

It matters not Abraham had faith. I'm saying the contract (Gen. 17) says nothing about faith being a requirement. That makes a zillioneth time I've said so.
Just tell me you can't find faith as a requirement in the covenant described in Genesis 17. While you're at it show me where Gentiles are mentioned in the contract.
Pssat...it's not there. So, adding faith or Gentiles cannot be done in a sealed contract, especially one signed, sealed, and delivered by blood.
"It is finished!?

You're pretty sure of yourself, not knowing scripture very well. Paul and the author of Hebrews (whether that's Paul or not) tell us plainly that Abraham had faith in Genesis 12:1 when God first called him; he had faith in Genesis 15:6 when God promised him a son from his own body; and he had faith in Genesis 17, both before and after he was circumcised (see the Romans verses below), which was the sign of that covenant in chapter 17.

Hebrews 11:8 "By faith Abraham, when he was called (Genesis 12:1), obeyed by going out ..."
Genesis 15:6 "Then he believed (that's faith) in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness, which Paul quotes and affirms in Romans 4:3.
Romans 4:11-12 " ... so that he MIGHT BE THE FATHER OF ALL WHO BELIEVE (that's the father of faith right there) without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps OF THE FAITH OF OUR FATHER ABRAHAM which he had while uncircumcised.

God saw that Abraham was a man of faith right from the start, when He called him in Genesis 12:1. Then Abraham proved he had faith again in
Genesis 15:6. (quoted above) Then in Genesis 17:23-24 Abraham proved once again that he believed God by IMMEDIATE OBEDIENCE to His command by not only getting circumcised himself but ordering that Ishmael and all his servants get circumcised.

You may not see the word "faith" or "believe" in Genesis 17, but Paul confirms that Abraham had faith both before and after his circumcision.
For you to think that faith was not a requirement is absurd. If Abraham didn't have faith, there would have been NO COVENANT. There would have been NO story in the Bible about Abraham. God would have used someone else who had faith.

Paul and the author of Hebrews confirm that faith not only was a requirement in Genesis 17, but has been since Adam and Eve, if anyone wishes to please God (Hebrews 11:4 - Cain and Abel and verse 6), which obviously Abraham did.
For you to say "It matters not (that) Abraham had faith." is false and unbiblical.

Where are Gentiles mentioned in the contract? You must be blind or don't want to acknowledge that they are there.

Genesis 17:5-6 " ... For I have made you the father of a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make NATIONS OF YOU, and KINGS will come forth from you." That's the Gentiles mentioned that you were looking for.

So no one is adding faith or Gentiles to the covenant. They are BOTH ALREADY THERE.

 

[jeremiah1five]

are you Jewish? actually i should have never replied to you at all/ your on ignore

That's the typical move when they lose their argument.