When Is A Jew Not A Jew?

[jeremiah1five]

I always heard it as

" a calf looking at a new gate". Mule might be more descriptive.....

Just like the saying. Not necessarily agreeing...

How 'bout that. Two members making fun of another member and trying to conceal it with metaphors and figurative language.
I'm a Biblical Christian and a child of truth being taught from the Word of Truth by the Spirit of Truth about the God is Truth.
Just call me an *** and be done with it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Maybe. Maybe not. The key being that the promise was made before Abraham and Judah... or have you abandoned your appeal to "Jew" now?

What promises were made before Abraham? The only other covenant in Scripture is the Noahic Covenant. But that was made covering all mankind. It has nothing to do with the cross.

The earthly seed has always been targeted for heavenly seed. There is no separation in the purpose of God. It is an appeal to the Gospel. The Gospel... faith to faith.

As Scriptures have said, the people were led by sight not faith.

Nonsense. David clearly stated that He could NOT get away from the Spirit of God.

Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

That's because David was in Covenant with God. Adam and the woman were not.

 

[101G]

and He's coming again to fight alongside Israel against His enemies as per covenant and prophecy,

nonesense.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,

All Israel? let's see, Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called." Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: (READ THAT AGAIN). but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." so that ALL ISRAEL "LIE" do not include fleshly Israel...... LOL, LOL, LOL, .... Oh my.

The Deliverer came, as per covenant and prophecy, died on a tree for Israel His Bride and Church

and, and, and church? is not the Church his bride?

If the Gentile Christians are not raptured

there is no rapture, and there is no Israel ...... Carnally...... (smile)

And although I can go through several reasons why a 'lamb was slain' before creation I'll just leave that for another thread.

no you can here for it is only one reason why it was stated.

from the beginning He's been actively calling out a people to Himself. With Israel He does it through covenant promises; with Gentiles in this era, He's doing it without covenant. So, being in covenant with God is the same as once saved, always saved. And that's exactly what the Scripture teaches. How are you going to get around what Saul said? He said, "and so all Israel shall be saved." Well, covenant makes that happen.

nonsense, scripture, Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

I don't think Jesus Christ demanded to be called "Master." There's nothing in Scripture on that question.

ERROR, John 13:13 "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am."

Now this MASTER bid..... and especially the "RABBI" ..........let's get it right. Matthew 23:8 "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren." Matthew 23:9 "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

UH O that just got all those so called "Rabbi's" in and outside of Israel....... (smile). Ouch.

The "priestly order" began in Trinity BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man and was accomplished by the Logos:

Nonesense.

So, this knowledge would also have bearing on member @101G and @GeneZ discussion about the "conception" of Jesus Christ, we can discuss using this truth about when the "Priestly Order" actually began and that would be one discussion in which I can provide that which I think I know towards the question.

again see Isaiah 46:10. and for the Priestly Order, it was changed. Psalms 110:4 "The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." God is declaring the end from the BEGINNING.... Oh dear.

I don't think Jesus Christ demanded to be called "Master." There's nothing in Scripture on that question.

again see Matthew 23:8 &9

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

He could think she was a whore but I'm sure she thought he was a liar and supplanter to not keep his word and give his other son as kinsman redeemer to raise up seed for her dead husband. So, Jacob was an adulterer to pay for sex with her. Now what?

I'm going to slow down. Our responses are getting too lengthy to maintain context here.....My apologies.

I think you meant Judah.

Motives are important to God. Judah looked to have his way with a whore. Tamar tricked Him. Tamar was a Gentile and Judah unwittingly gave her seed that is in the lineage of Jesus Christ.

So when you appeal to a "Jew".... in purty, you're exclude this very dirty narrative.

 

[Ezra]

Hee Haw?

your getting close with your theology straw man

 

[praise_yeshua]

How 'bout that. Two members making fun of another member and trying to conceal it with metaphors and figurative language.
I'm a Biblical Christian and a child of truth being taught from the Word of Truth by the Spirit of Truth about the God is Truth.
Just call me an *** and be done with it.

I wasn't calling you anything. It is simply an expression. Don't play wounded.

 

[Wrangler]

You know, to be quite honest with you the philosophy of "agree to disagree" is a cop out. Heresy in the Church should be challenged not allowed to exist.

So much for civility OR religious freedom.

I've come to the conclusion that it is not heretical doctrines that are the problem. The problem is doctrine itself, which is just a form of IDOLATRY. Proof of this is that you do not find a doctrinal purity test in Scripture as a requirement for salvation.

God made salvation so easy, the human mind cannot grasp it. So, we invent ways to do evil, such as create manmade doctrine and say things like anyone who disagrees should not be allowed to exist.

 

[Wrangler]

Then it's prophesied Messiah, the Prophet like unto Moses is to come from "among thy brethren," meaning He'll be an Israelite, then when the time is ripe, send this Jewish Messiah to the Jewish people, Messiah even says He was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, sends His 12 disciples again to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, is crucified according to the Scriptures for "Jacob," resurrects and God's redemption of the Jewish people is complete, and after Messiah ascends into heaven sends the Holy Spirit in accordance to the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel, and while Israel tries to make sense and understand this Holy Spirit and their Jewish Messiah's effect upon the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants, and Gentiles think God's instruction to Israel in the form of prophecy and New Covenant Scriptures that God is addressing His sacred oracles to hard-core, uncircumcised Gentiles?

That has to be the longest sentence I've seen this century.

You obviously have an axe to grind against Gentiles. We do agree on this, Jesus was the Jesus Messiah born under the law, required to believe in a unitarian God not a 3-in-1 manmade invention of the 4th century.

 

[Wrangler]

The proper understanding with regard to the New Covenant writings of Saul, Peter, James, John, Matthew, is that these writing are to Jewish Christians. It's a Jewish Covenant with a Jewish Messiah and a Jewish New Covenant.

So, you deny John 3:16?

 

[praise_yeshua]

That has to be the longest sentence I've seen this century.

You obviously have an axe to grind against Gentiles. We do agree on this, Jesus was the Jesus Messiah born under the law, required to believe in a unitarian God not a 3-in-1 manmade invention of the 4th century.

Jesus was a human being. There are not special classes of human beings in this world. All men are equal.

 

[Wrangler]

If "A" is "A" then why can't you understand that "A" it's a Jewish Covenant, and "B" it's a Jewish Messiah, and "C" the New Covenant Scriptures are written to Jewish Christians?

It's because of many verses that deny your claim.

Romans 10:9 if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from among the dead, you will be saved. There is no qualifier "if you are Jewish."

John 20:31 these are written so that you believe that Jesus is the Christ,d the Son of God, and so that by believing you will have life in his name. Again, there is no qualifier "if you are Jewish."

John 17:1-3 (NLT) Father … And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God. NOTE: The way to have eternal life has nothing to do with requiring one to be a Jew.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus was a human being. There are not special classes of human beings in this world. All men are equal.

Are we in agreement in this thread? Wow!

 

[praise_yeshua]

Are we in agreement in this thread? Wow!

We are in agreement about many things. God will straighten us all out one day.

 

[jeremiah1five]

nonesense.

1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
Zech. 14:1–2.

Last time I checked the Gentile Church is overflowing with Gentiles. Not only that, but all over the world non-Jews in this present Israeli-Hamas War are pretty much supporting and protesting in favor of the terrorist Hamas. So, things are beginning to turn because while this generation of Millennials grow up they are mostly tree-hugging, democratic, far-left radical liberals and my generation of Boomers who would support our closest ally in the Middle east are slowly fading away and a new generation is flexing its political muscle. So, it says "all nations" then God knows the extent of "all nations" because when He defends Israel His Bride it's not for their sakes but for His Names' sake. And you can bet He's going to make sure ALL NATIONS - even Gentile Christians who believe in Replacement Theology, or falsely believe that in spiritual matters they are in covenant with Abraham in their erroneous understanding of Galatians 3:28-29 already have an attitude against Israel today. Even yourself. But if God can blind Israel's eyes these 2000 years to their Messiah He can do the same with Gentile Christians - especially when it sinks in that God was using them to make His Bride Israel jealous. Nobody likes to be used. And for the record there is no love-triangle here. God has only ONE Bride He's betrothed to and it is NOT Gentile Christians.
At the Marriage Supper Israel is there by Covenant.
Gentiles are there by invitation (Matt. 22.)
Good luck.

All Israel? let's see, Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called." Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: (READ THAT AGAIN). but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." so that ALL ISRAEL "LIE" do not include fleshly Israel...... LOL, LOL, LOL, .... Oh my.

So, Saul contradicts himself by saying two opposites. One is a lie, the other is true. I think "ALL ISRAEL shall be saved" is the truth because there it is clear as day and doesn't need any hermeneutical or exegetical extension to understand what it says. Covenant is covenant and Israel has covenant and nowhere in the covenant does it say, "this person is 'Israel/Jew' and this person is not," etc. God will fulfill all His promises made to Israel and if a Deliverer is to save Jacob then ALL of Jacob will be saved.

and, and, and church? is not the Church his bride?

Nope. You read the Scriptures with a Gentile bias as though Israel lost all her benefits of covenant and now Gentiles are up to bat. That's ignorant pride talking. The New Covenant writings of gospel, epistles, etc. are written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jewish Christians and the main theme is their attempts at searching the Hebrew Scriptures to make sense and understand Messiah's effect upon the existing Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants. THAT is the context of Galatians 3:28-29, and all the New Covenant writings of Saul, Peter, James, John, etc.

there is no rapture, and there is no Israel ...... Carnally...... (smile)

There is no rapture, and if you look at the war in the middle east on the news there is surely an Israel.

no you can here for it is only one reason why it was stated.
nonsense, scripture, Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

The reason why God knows the end from the beginning is because He's ORDAINED the end. Predestination. What a beautiful doctrine for those that are truly saved.

ERROR, John 13:13 "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am." Now this MASTER bid..... and especially the "RABBI" ..........let's get it right. Matthew 23:8 "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren." Matthew 23:9 "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
UH O that just got all those so called "Rabbi's" in and outside of Israel....... (smile). Ouch.
Nonesense.
again see Isaiah 46:10. and for the Priestly Order, it was changed. Psalms 110:4 "The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." God is declaring the end from the BEGINNING.... Oh dear.
again see Matthew 23:8 &9
101G.

.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I'm going to slow down. Our responses are getting too lengthy to maintain context here.....My apologies.

I think you meant Judah.

Motives are important to God. Judah looked to have his way with a whore. Tamar tricked Him. Tamar was a Gentile and Judah unwittingly gave her seed that is in the lineage of Jesus Christ.

So when you appeal to a "Jew".... in purty, you're exclude this very dirty narrative.

It's a patriarchal culture. A woman takes the man's name and not the other way around. And although there is command to not marry Gentiles Israel did not always listen. And there are also cases of rape or marriage for survival and concubine-ship as well as slavery, especially after Assyria and Babylon. It was a hellish time in Israel. And the "other flock" Jesus was going to go get are not Gentiles for God made no covenant with Gentiles but are Samaritans. They are still in covenant with Yahweh. And God will make two into one.

 

[jeremiah1five]

your getting close with your theology straw man

Accusations are the refuge of the scoundrel. Couldn't keep up nor resist the Word of God.
It happens.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I wasn't calling you anything. It is simply an expression. Don't play wounded.

I'm not offended. My spine is stronger than that after decades of suffering and trials and tribulation. Nothing really surprises me anymore. It will all get worked out in the end.

 

[Ezra]

Couldn't keep up nor resist the Word of God.
It happens.

lol i have gave you word i have as well as others have showed you faith ..lets the Abraham covenant when did Abram become Abraham the father of faith ?

gen 17

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I am El-Shaddai—‘God Almighty.’ Serve me faithfully and live a blameless life. 2 I will make a covenant with you, by which I will guarantee to give you countless descendants.”

3 At this, Abram fell face down on the ground. Then God said to him, 4 “This is my covenant with you: I will make you the father of a multitude of nations! 5 What’s more, I am changing your name. It will no longer be Abram. Instead, you will be called Abraham,[a] for you will be the father of many nations. 6 I will make you extremely fruitful. Your descendants will become many nations, and kings will be among them!

7 “I will confirm my covenant with you and your descendants[b] after you, from generation to generation. This is the everlasting covenant: I will always be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 And I will give the entire land of Canaan, where you now live as a foreigner, to you and your descendants. It will be their possession forever, and I will be their God.”

The Mark of the Covenant​

9 Then God said to Abraham, “Your responsibility is to obey the terms of the covenant. You and all your descendants have this continual responsibility. 10 This is the covenant that you and your descendants must keep: Each male among you must be circumcised. 11 You must cut off the flesh of your foreskin as a sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 From generation to generation, every male child must be circumcised on the eighth day after his birth. This applies not only to members of your family but also to the servants born in your household and the foreign-born servants whom you have purchased. 13 All must be circumcised. Your bodies will bear the mark of my everlasting covenant. 14 Any male who fails to be circumcised will be cut off from the covenant family for breaking the covenant.”

Sarai Is Named Sarah​

15 Then God said to Abraham, “Regarding Sarai, your wife—her name will no longer be Sarai. From now on her name will be Sarah.[c] 16 And I will bless her and give you a son from her! Yes, I will bless her richly, and she will become the mother of many nations. Kings of nations will be among her descendants.”

17 Then Abraham bowed down to the ground, but he laughed to himself in disbelief. “How could I become a father at the age of 100?” he thought. “And how can Sarah have a baby when she is ninety years old?” 18 So Abraham said to God, “May Ishmael live under your special blessing!”

19 But God replied, “No—Sarah, your wife, will give birth to a son for you. You will name him Isaac,[d] and I will confirm my covenant with him and his descendants as an everlasting covenant. 20 As for Ishmael, I will bless him also, just as you have asked. I will make him extremely fruitful and multiply his descendants. He will become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will be confirmed with Isaac, who will be born to you and Sarah about this time next year.” 22 When God had finished speaking, he left Abraham.

23 On that very day Abraham took his son, Ishmael, and every male in his household, including those born there and those he had bought. Then he circumcised them, cutting off their foreskins, just as God had told him. 24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, 25 and Ishmael, his son, was thirteen. 26 Both Abraham and his son, Ishmael, were circumcised on that same day, 27 along with all the other men and boys of the household, whether they were born there or bought as servants. All were circumcised with him.



see he went from Abram to Abraham the cov was accepted by faith not the word obey how do you obey BY FAITH when some one who you cant see but only hears tells you to do something . its a act of faith done by faith. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. he had hope in the covenant which hope is a type of faith even though he couldn't se
off course in turn you will water it down by using strange fire . see i know scriptures i used scriptures to show you faith . be my guest to reject it,


BTW DONT FLATTER YOUR SELF THINKING I CANT KEEP UP.. i can when i want to

 

[praise_yeshua]

It's a patriarchal culture. A woman takes the man's name and not the other way around. And although there is command to not marry Gentiles Israel did not always listen. And there are also cases of rape or marriage for survival and concubine-ship as well as slavery, especially after Assyria and Babylon. It was a hellish time in Israel. And the "other flock" Jesus was going to go get are not Gentiles for God made no covenant with Gentiles but are Samaritans. They are still in covenant with Yahweh. And God will make two into one.

It was sin. The patriarchs sinned. Christ died for sinners. All of them. Your appeal to Jew/Judah isn't working. There is only one Heir with all the promises. That is Jesus Christ.

 

[GeneZ]

Accusations are the refuge of the scoundrel. Couldn't keep up nor resist the Word of God.
It happens.

That was in itself an accusation, sir.