Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Peterlag]

If you read Romans 6, they were not quite freed from fleshly behavior. This it not talking with an absolutely clean cut from the flesh. The flesh will be still be around until a person physically dies, even if they are a real Christian. Worse, you expect a baby holy spirit to be birthed inside of you. You are finding an overoptimistic reading of scripture, especially for one who does not believe in the pre-existence of Christ.

What verse in Romans 6 are we referring to concerning not being free from sin?

 

[mikesw]

What verse in Romans 6 are we referring to concerning not being free from sin?

Paul is addressing the behavior of the gentiles.

 

[Peterlag]

Paul is addressing the behavior of the gentiles.

Well, let's see is it number 2?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Or verse 6?

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Perhaps verse 7?

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Could it be verse 11?

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Maybe verse 14?

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace

Verse 18?

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Yes I have read Romans 6. Perhaps many times before you were born.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

 

[mikesw]

Well, let's see is it number 2?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Or verse 6?

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Perhaps verse 7?

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Could it be verse 11?

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Maybe verse 14?

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace

Verse 18?

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Yes I have read Romans 6. Perhaps many times before you were born.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

I'm not going to address that now. Have fun with the passage on our own for now.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There's no Trinity. The verses that are used to try to teach it are all taken out of context, or not understood how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation. It's an evil Catholic concept that was sold to the world mostly by the power of the sword.

The only thing trinitarians have is their own imagination, human reasoning, and picking one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here and a clue there and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human reasoning process, speculations and assumptions. Nothing more. It's not the true and living God of the Bible, the God of Israel, the God of the Apostles or the God of Jesus. The trinity is an IDOL made by man and that is the reason why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. The trinitarian God is a philosophical construct of their own minds that they literally built up like a Lego.

That is why I say you're an unbeliever.
Those that have been touched by God always come to understand that God is Trinity and is best explained by the Athanasius Creed:

The Athanasian Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
Neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one: the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate.
The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensibles, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty.
And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say: There be three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none: neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone: not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another;
But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together, and co-equal.
So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man;
God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man, of the substance of His mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect man: of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting;
Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood;
Who, although He be God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God;
One altogether; not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
He ascended into heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty;
From whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
And shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.

These are astounding, truthful, exegesis of the Biblical doctrine. I could never had said it as Atanasius did.
Now, this is what can occur when reading and studying Scripture under the anointing (fasting included as desired.)

 

[Runningman]

Only a Deity can have the form of a Deity, unless you're hallucinating about it.

form means outward appearance.

How many humans have you seen being transfigured as Jesus was transfigured in Luke 9:29?

According to Matthew, Jesus was not transfigured, but rather the disciples had a vision of it.

Matt 17
9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

 

[Runningman]

The Lord is my protector even if you rise up against God and myself. Peter said the spirit is born inside of him. He does not even proclaim the Spirit of God and as such must have an unclean spirit.

Why would God protect you from people resisting your perpetuation of idolatry and other false doctrines? That's like saying God will assist you in helping others sin. Crazy. No, you're going to continually be resisted every time you decide to open your mouth and even so much as utter a peep.

 

[Runningman]

The only way their view can be true, at least to themselves, is if they're hallucinating. I have yet to receive any other valid reason why @Runningman interprets Phil 2:6 the way he does.

Being in the form of God is something that others can have too. It means outward appearance.

 

[Runningman]

I figured those of the unitarian heresy would just have a few verses they found confusing and perhaps they would have shared common beliefs with Christians. The confusion over some verses could be natural. However, they try to change every teaching of scripture in very odd and unusual ways. That simply is illogical, unnatural, and unlikely to be correct.

For the record, you don't believe the Father is the only true God. yes or no.

 

[Runningman]

That is why I say you're an unbeliever.
Those that have been touched by God always come to understand that God is Trinity and is best explained by the Athanasius Creed:

The Athanasian Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
Neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one: the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate.
The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensibles, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty.
And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say: There be three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none: neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone: not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another;
But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together, and co-equal.
So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man;
God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man, of the substance of His mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect man: of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting;
Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood;
Who, although He be God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God;
One altogether; not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
He ascended into heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty;
From whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
And shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.

These are astounding, truthful, exegesis of the Biblical doctrine. I could never had said it as Atanasius did.
Now, this is what can occur when reading and studying Scripture under the anointing (fasting included as desired.)

Athanasius' tactic was to convert God into an impersonal substance, rather than a person, and distributing it equally among three persons. What Athanasius proposes is only possible if God is not a person. Therefore, he has presented strong evidence from his writings that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit cannot be God, but are rather vessels for God. I highly recommend avoiding his blasphemous heresies.

 

[Peterlag]

That is why I say you're an unbeliever.
Those that have been touched by God always come to understand that God is Trinity and is best explained by the Athanasius Creed:

The Athanasian Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
Neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one: the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate.
The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensibles, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty.
And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say: There be three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none: neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone: not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another;
But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together, and co-equal.
So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man;
God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man, of the substance of His mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect man: of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting;
Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood;
Who, although He be God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God;
One altogether; not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
He ascended into heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty;
From whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
And shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.

These are astounding, truthful, exegesis of the Biblical doctrine. I could never had said it as Atanasius did.
Now, this is what can occur when reading and studying Scripture under the anointing (fasting included as desired.)

Like I said... the trinity is an IDOL made by man and that is the reason why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.

 

[Complete]

'Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity;
that they may adorn
the doctrine of God our Saviour
in all things.'
(Tit 2:10)

'Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour
Jesus Christ;'
(Tit 2:13)

'But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done,
but according to His mercy He saved us,
by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by His grace,
we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.'
(Tit 3:4-7)

Praise God!

 

[Complete]

'Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD,
and my servant Whom I have chosen:
that ye may know and believe Me,
and understand that I am He:
before me there was no God formed,
neither shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the LORD;
and beside me there is no saviour.
I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed,
when there was no strange god among you:
therefore ye are my witnesses,
saith the LORD, that I am God.'
(Isa 43:10-12)

Praise God!

 

[Complete]

'Tell ye, and bring them near;
yea, let them take counsel together:
who hath declared this from ancient time?
who hath told it from that time?
have not I the LORD?
and there is no God else beside me;
a just God and a Saviour;
there is none beside me.'
(Isa 45:21)

'Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt,
and thou shalt know no god but me:
for there is no saviour beside me.'
(Hos 13:4)

Praise His Holy Name!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Like I said... the trinity is an IDOL made by man and that is the reason why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.

No, you've been given all pertinent passages of Scripture. You just refuse to believe. This makes you an unbeliever according to Scripture. Every Jew understood Psalm 2:7. To be a "son" meant being related to their father. And every true-born of God knows after they are born-again there is a Trinity of God expressed in Father, SON, and Holy Spirit. Jews today are still awaiting the appearance of this "SON" of God because their Scripture reveals it. They just haven't experienced Him yet. At least that is what they believe. And so it comes down to belief just as I said. When God reveals Himself to one of His elect God reveals Himself as Trinity: Father, SON and Holy Spirit. This is merely another way to tell whether one was OF GOD (1 John 4:1-2.)

 

[mikesw]

For the record, you don't believe the Father is the only true God. yes or no.

There is only one God. He exists in Trinity form. Maybe you have heard that before. This works also because the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son. But Jesus only introduces the situation in a way to focus on the Father while leaving the rest to be recognized after his resurrection. Indeed part of the purpose of this is to trip up people who would try to force all this into a unitarian view.

 

[Peterlag]

No, you've been given all pertinent passages of Scripture. You just refuse to believe. This makes you an unbeliever according to Scripture. Every Jew understood Psalm 2:7. To be a "son" meant being related to their father. And every true-born of God knows after they are born-again there is a Trinity of God expressed in Father, SON, and Holy Spirit. Jews today are still awaiting the appearance of this "SON" of God because their Scripture reveals it. They just haven't experienced Him yet. At least that is what they believe. And so it comes down to belief just as I said. When God reveals Himself to one of His elect God reveals Himself as Trinity: Father, SON and Holy Spirit. This is merely another way to tell whether one was OF GOD (1 John 4:1-2.)

Concerning 1 John 4:1-2 that you mentioned... If the spirit is telling you that Jesus is God. That spirit is not from God. The spirit from God will say that Jesus came in the flesh. The false spirit will say God came in the flesh. There's your test of the spirit.

 

[Runningman]

There is only one God. He exists in Trinity form. Maybe you have heard that before. This works also because the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son. But Jesus only introduces the situation in a way to focus on the Father while leaving the rest to be recognized after his resurrection. Indeed part of the purpose of this is to trip up people who would try to force all this into a unitarian view.

I have Scripture that says otherwise. You don't have any Scripture. Stop using arguments from silence to support your belief.

 

[mikesw]

I have Scripture that says otherwise. You don't have any Scripture. Stop using arguments from silence to support your belief.

You have seen scripture from many people. You should know those verses if you are going to deny what they say. You are the one-verse unitarian who determines the meaning of all scripture from John 17:3. That just is not sufficient to convince us of anything you say.

 

[360watt]

The key thing I see going on is the separation of the Spirit, Son and Father to the point of inferiority/immortal vs mortal/lesser gods.

This is also what many liberal/atheist biblical critics do.

It is isolating scripture from it's context.

A prime example is when Jesus said the Father is 'greater than I'

Rather than see that Jesus is about to ascend to be one with the Father, equal... they look at the verse on it's own and make a judgment on it.

The other thing is the communication between Spirit, Father and Son gets seen again as the Father as superior and the Son inferior..or mortal. I don't know what they do with the Spirit.

Again..it's putting biases on scripture before letting it speak for itself. Like the atheist denying the supernatural can happen before looking at scripture.