Thomas... My Lord and my God

Runningman said:
Falls short of saying Jesus has seen the Father in any different respect than anyone else. You learned that today didn’t you? I am sure you searched the Bible far and wide for where Jesus made any explicit statements about being a literal eyewitness to God and learned he never said it.
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Before you quickly run away from John 6:46, who is the singular "he" who has seen the Father? Is he Runningman or is he Christ? My money is on Christ.

(John 6:46) not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.

Also, do you seriously think that Jesus will be blindfolded when he sits on the Father's Throne with the Father? That's the only way Jesus would not be able to see the Father with whom he is sitting on the same Throne.

“The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.” ‭‭(Revelation‬ ‭3:21‬).
Runningman said:
Yet the Bible teaches many are from God. Do you understand that what Jesus has others can have now?

1 John 4 ESV
4Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
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Nothing there about them having seen the Father. Massive failure on your part.
 
synergy said:
Before you quickly run away from John 6:46, who is the singular "he" who has seen the Father? Is he Runningman or is he Christ? My money is on Christ.

(John 6:46) not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.

Also, do you seriously think that Jesus will be blindfolded when he sits on the Father's Throne with the Father? That's the only way Jesus would not be able to see the Father with whom he is sitting on the same Throne.

“The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.” ‭‭(Revelation‬ ‭3:21‬).

Nothing there about them having seen the Father. Massive failure on your part.
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I love John 6:46. The one who is from God has seen God. Wow. That's a lot of people. So much for your statement about, "Jesus has made it very clear that nobody has ever seen the Father except for himself." Your island is shrinking as I immerse and surround it with a sea of permeating truth.

I consider Revelation 3:21 a prooftext for Unitarianism since it's clear that if those who sit on the throne of Jesus are not God then if Jesus sits on the throne of the Father then he is also not God.
 
synergy said:
@Runningman thinks that Jesus will be blindfolded when he sits on the Father's Throne with the Father.

“The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.” ‭‭(Revelation‬ ‭3:21‬).
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You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either Christians are God and so is Jesus or Jesus isn't God. I have more evidence that he isn't God than you do that he is. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you say Jesus is God then what about all the Christians who are also squarely sitting on the throne of God with him?
 
synergy said:
"His Lord" in this case is the Father. You don't think that the Father is God???? Man, you're in a worse heretical state than I first envisioned.

So what about those verses? They are perfectly Trinitarian in that they refer to the Kenosis of Jesus.

Let's summarize again. The Apostles followed the Septuagint and called Jesus κυριος (Lord) which is the Greek name for YHWH and Adonai. They did not use the name "Lord" (κυριος) for anyone besides Jesus and God the Father in the New Testament. While κυριος could be used culturally as a term of respect or authority, the Apostles specifically used "Lord" (κυριος) to indicate divine authority, reverence, or worship when referring to Jesus or God the Father.
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Matthew 18:25-27 and Matthew 20:8 call people who are not Jesus or the Father κυριος.
 
Runningman said:
I love John 6:46. The one who is from God has seen God. Wow. That's a lot of people. So much for your statement about, "Jesus has made it very clear that nobody has ever seen the Father except for himself." Your island is shrinking as I immerse and surround it with a sea of permeating truth.
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Again, you ran away from my question. Who is the singular "he" who has seen the Father? Is he Runningman or is he Christ? My money is on Christ.

(John 6:46) not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Runningman said:
I consider Revelation 3:21 a prooftext for Unitarianism since it's clear that if those who sit on the throne of Jesus are not God then if Jesus sits on the throne of the Father then he is also not God.
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You can imagine that Jesus is blindfolded on the Father's Throne all you want. That goes along with all your other hallucinations that there are others, other than Jesus, who is "in the form of God".
 
synergy said:
Again, you ran away from my question. Who is the singular "he" who has seen the Father? Is he Runningman or is he Christ? My money is on Christ.

(John 6:46) not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Click to expand...
Come on synergy you can do better. "Anyone" or "no one" is an indefinite pronoun so it can literally refer to anyone. No specific person is mentioned. I think you know in your heart and mind that Jesus was not referring to himself exclusively. Wow thanks for another Unitarian verse @mikesw I had overlooked that one, but it's a good one to help me.

synergy said:
You can imagine that Jesus is blindfolded on the Father's Throne all you want. That goes along with all your other hallucinations that there are others, other than Jesus, who is "in the form of God".
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Wait, why does Jesus need to be blindfolded?
 
Runningman said:
Come on synergy you can do better. "Anyone" or "no one" is an indefinite pronoun so it can literally refer to anyone.
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Thank you for making my point. "Anyone" or everyone has not seen the Father. That "can literally refer to anyone". Exactly!
Runningman said:
No specific person is mentioned. I think you know in your heart and mind that Jesus was not referring to himself exclusively. Wow thanks for another Unitarian verse @mikesw I had overlooked that one, but it's a good one to help me.
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The exception is the singular "he" who has seen the Father. So, who is the singular "he" who has seen the Father? Is he Runningman or is he Christ? Those are my questions you ran away from..My money is on Christ.
Runningman said:
Wait, why does Jesus need to be blindfolded?
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because that's the only way Jesus would not be able to see the Father, and that answers whether or not Jesus is a literal eyewitness to God (the Father).

You continue to hallucinate that there are others, other than Jesus, who is "in the form of God".
 
Runningman said:
Falls short of saying Jesus has seen the Father in any different respect than anyone else. You learned that today didn’t you? I am sure you searched the Bible far and wide for where Jesus made any explicit statements about being a literal eyewitness to God and learned he never said it. Yet the Bible teaches many are from God. Do you understand that what Jesus has others can have now?

1 John 4 ESV
4Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
Click to expand...
You are too desperate to deny the simple point made that Jesus is the only one who has seen the Father. You have to calm your eisegetical interests way down.
 
mikesw said:
You are too desperate to deny the simple point made that Jesus is the only one who has seen the Father. You have to calm your eisegetical interests way down.
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@Runningman has once again exhibited very poor command of the English language. I believe that the vast majority of all heresies would immediately evaporate if people would just practice a good comprehensive understanding of English.
 
Peterlag said:
Christians have spiritual power when they receive the gift of the holy spirit (Acts 1:8) because the holy spirit is born in them and becomes part of their very nature, and this is why Christians are called God’s “holy ones” which is usually translated as “saints” in the New Testament.
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wow. so you are going to have a baby holy spirit born inside of you. that is berserk -- really distorted. It is taking awhile, but you are revealing more crazy doctrines of your unitarian distortions. I doubt you have a verse to support your view.
 
synergy said:
@Runningman has once again exhibited very poor command of the English language. I believe that the vast majority of all heresies would immediately evaporate if people would just practice a good comprehensive understanding of English.
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I'm afraid since hearing his mention of his encounter with what he thought was God. That was a brief point he made for coming to his denial of the deity of Christ in the Godhead.
 
No, what's going to be awkward is explaining why you ARE NOT worshiping Jesus, when you can see that MANY worshiped Him during His lifetime, and "every created thing in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them - (that INCLUDES YOU, apparently against your will)- will worship Him, the Lamb, AND Him who sits on the throne. Rev. 5:13

Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. (that also includes you) Willingly or not.
 
mikesw said:
you cannot tell between a parable on a secular situation and the places where Jesus is called Lord? No wonder you have trouble interpreting scripture.
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Many of my questions are rhetorical to help you find your way back to where you should have stayed. κυριος doesn't mean someone is God.
 
Runningham said: "Falls short of saying Jesus has seen the Father in any different respect than anyone else."

Wow! You really don't know the Bible, do you? And I'm not talking about the NWT perversion.
John 17:5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

Were you with the Father "before the world was" and did you share in His glory at that time???

So you see that Jesus HAS seen the Father in a MUCH DIFFERENT WAY than anyone else.
 

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